open 894: near vanilla (game over)

[schadd_]

everyone survived the night.

Spoiler:

vote count 5.0 !

not voting (10):

ProjEctRy, Afrayed Knott, shaddowez, JupiterXV, Aisa, Titus, OutWorldER, Skygazer, Dannflor, Bellaphant

with 10 alive, it takes 6 to repossess someone's reptile. day 5 starts now and ends in (expired on 2023-12-31 14:02:36)

moderateur notes

• thread unlocked
  
• jarg.

[Dannflor]

purgatory.

[Aisa]

I think that might have been the most spectacularly wrong read I've ever had

[Skygazer]

VOTE: aisa

will try to get back into the solving mindset

[Aisa]

-_-

[Bellaphant]

I did say that it was unlikely both scum randomly decides to vote me.

We keep rushing through lims on town. T my mind, we have a few ways of playing this: do we keep going as effectively nightless and trust in Titus's reads, do we stop elmining, or do we elim everyone apart from the people is pretty certain she can read, regardless of their alignment?

These ideas seem rubbish but I'm not sure the best way to process.

[Aisa]

On that, I think something that would be very powerful is having a (correct) towncore
I'm not sure how to get there exactly

[Aisa]

But like... technically all we need to win the game is a handful of townies with (correct) townreads on each other

[Aisa]

I'm not sure this is controversial anymore but I trust Skyg quite strongly (they don't trust me back i know i know)
Tempted to re-eval everyone else

[Dannflor]

I did say that it was unlikely both scum randomly decides to vote me.

We keep rushing through lims on town. T my mind, we have a few ways of playing this: do we keep going as effectively nightless and trust in Titus's reads, do we stop elmining, or do we elim everyone apart from the people is pretty certain she can read, regardless of their alignment?

These ideas seem rubbish but I'm not sure the best way to process.

what are you trying to say here bella

that we've been wrong to rush through the last few lims?

[OutWorldER]

On that, I think something that would be very powerful is having a (correct) towncore
I'm not sure how to get there exactly

We already have one, I'm fairly sure? Titus, Dann, Skygazer, Myself, Jupiter. My memory may be failing me but I'm fairly certain this block of people is all townreading each other. Skygazer might be the outlier here but I also just think Skygazer's 1v1 with T3 can't be SvS unless it was an extremely ballsy gambit.

Frankly on my end I'm just between voting you or voting Project, because of all the people outside that block I think AK is probably just town, Bella I think is a consensus read town and same for shaddowez.

[Dannflor]

I think that might have been the most spectacularly wrong read I've ever had

idk why you felt the need to wall case snivy 2-3 times

[Aisa]

I think that might have been the most spectacularly wrong read I've ever had

idk why you felt the need to wall case snivy 2-3 times

idk what to say, i thought he was flipping scum and wanted to explain why

[Dannflor]

yeahhhhh

[Dannflor]

i guess i kind of think it makes you town

[Dannflor]

Bella I think is a consensus read town and same for shaddowez.

i'd like to revisit these

[OutWorldER]

i guess i kind of think it makes you town

Curious why you think this since I'm in the opposite camp. I think Aisa's recent posting, especially today, just kinda reads like someone who wants the appearance of being towny and solving.

In general looking back through Aisa's ISO I feel more confident in that scumread since I think there's a specific pattern with her activity that tells on her being scum.

[Titus]

@Jupiter 1349 I'm not quoting the entire post, but I think I can answer your questions by explaining our interactions.

We start with some witty banter that was fun.

When Black makes 256 at ProjEctRy, I started to suspect her. The early posts might have been disagreements, but Black knows what newbie scum can do. We've done it. This suggested a pocket of ProjEctRy. 258 suggested to look more at what ProjEctRy was pushing at the time.

If you look at posts 249 and 251, ProjEctRy was denying townreads on AK, Bellaphant and me. In 144 ProjEctRy wants to deny townreads on Dann. Altogether, ProjEctRy was scumhunting, but being wrong in his first game.

This promotion and buttering of wrong reads and chaos is exactly what I'd do as scum.

I know however, if you take a shot at the scumhead, you'd better not miss. So I had to get people to my cause while they think it's their idea. Evil and manipulative, sure but I also had reasons for staying in the back.

I kept watching.

In 260, Black talked about "town vibes" from K, which was the opposite I got but maybe it was the language barrier. Maybe Black was pocketing. So I checked her ISO more. This is more past reading than I ever do in a game, but Black is worth the challenge.

We'll address Black's interactions with K as we progress. For now, she's fine with having "vibes" on K but disapproves of gut hunches I had on K. She "can't argue" 131with vibes for townreading Aisa. 124 The implication is that Black would want to argue. She does want something different from Bella, which strongly suggest Bella is town and so is Aisa.

We then have a conversation about "gut" which is really synonymous with "vibes". I mention in 152 that my K scumread is gut. In 197, Black promotes ProjEctRy based on "gut". ProjEctRy is denying townreads in 144 like we established. At this point, Black is using ProjEctRy to throw out reasons to attack town, which is a common tactic I use. Promoting bad reads.

But I digress. Black in 269 is questioning JupiterXV townreading Dann because of gut and nothing Dann did. This is an implication that if JupiterXV stuck just to logic Dann would remain out of the townblock. This is also notably the first time Black straight up objects to gut. She only offered a different opinion on K. This suggests both Dann and JupiterXV are town. Her renewing the objection in 275 reinforces this. While it's not an issue being a hypocrit in a mafia game, the hypocrisy reveals alignment.

282 and the others in that section are a pocket attempt on JupiterXV. 313 Black is objecting to shaddow sticking up for Aisa's little evidence to TR me. This suggests Shaddowez is town along with Aisa.

348 Black reasonless townreading K. In 349 Black suggests that K's content is better than Sky and Nono. She accuses AK of shade. She takes the opposite position that we should eliminate in the active posters because 1) town wouldn't likely go for a no lim in a cohesive gamestate and 2) with T3 v/la and K being low content himself, an active lim is better as it had high odds of being town.

383 I am taking a back seat but watching. 419 Scum generally don't apologize for actually helpful posts.

463 Black walks back a townread on K. The backing off comes when K isn't a wagon. 477 more evidence JupiterXV is town.

543 is where I drop a hint I think Black is scum. If I shoot there, I cannot miss.

I'll include more solve tmo. But TLDR Project, AK, Dann, Aisa, JupiterXV, Bellaphant and shaddowez are all hinted clear from my pov from just the first 500 posts since Black does not treat K or T3 in anywhere the same manner. Black approaches like a chess match. I'll explain more manipulation tonight or tmo.

Sorry Jupiter, question required to much but explaining the early game is a start.

I jailed Aisa as Aisa is a popular scumread.

We are clearly in nightless though. Let's hold off a choice until after Christmas.

I'd like feedback on the above post.

[OutWorldER]

Like, I think it's really convenient for Aisa that she's entirely absent when Black is getting run up. And Aisa also seemed to be less active during D2 and her play around T3 just kinda comes off as wanting to defend T3 and trying to get him out of his situation while also not wanting to be implicated herself.

Unsure if I'm more confident of Aisa being scum than Project though.

-SNIP-

I jailed Aisa as Aisa is a popular scumread.

We are clearly in nightless though. Let's hold off a choice until after Christmas.

I'd like feedback on the above post.

I think you're aware I already disagree with that post because I still scumread Project, and in general I think Kurta flipping town means that certain parts or even that entire post should be reevaulated.

[Dannflor]

you might be right about aisa

i guess i've been oscillating between the cases on snivy being LAMIST and it being a townie who really thinks they solved the game

[Dannflor]

i am having a hard time moving past the view that the black > projectry interactions were black trying to pocket project

[Dannflor]

On that, I think something that would be very powerful is having a (correct) towncore
I'm not sure how to get there exactly

But like... technically all we need to win the game is a handful of townies with (correct) townreads on each other

I'm not sure this is controversial anymore but I trust Skyg quite strongly (they don't trust me back i know i know)
Tempted to re-eval everyone else

i am surprised you don't have a larger town core already

[Aisa]

Like, I think it's really convenient for Aisa that she's entirely absent when Black is getting run up. And Aisa also seemed to be less active during D2 and her play around T3 just kinda comes off as wanting to defend T3 and trying to get him out of his situation while also not wanting to be implicated herself.

You may like to consider that when I last posted on Day 1 I was voting T3, who was the largest wagon (viewtopic.php?p=14005598#p14005598)
FWIW the reason I was absent is because I couldn't make my mind up about what wagon to be on. I decided to deal with it by ignoring the game for a bit

On that, I think something that would be very powerful is having a (correct) towncore
I'm not sure how to get there exactly

But like... technically all we need to win the game is a handful of townies with (correct) townreads on each other

I'm not sure this is controversial anymore but I trust Skyg quite strongly (they don't trust me back i know i know)
Tempted to re-eval everyone else

i am surprised you don't have a larger town core already

Maybe I'll throw in Afrayed as a town read
I think I'll get back to have a town core, it's just a matter of remembering my reasons for townreading certain people again and deciding which of those reasons are strongest
Like, idk. My worldview yesterday kinda got flattened into "snivy is soo scummy and everyone else is towny"

[JupiterXV]

Hi I’m at the hospital will post later & more, I just want post 2000 so I’m here now

[JupiterXV]

H