Mini Normal 2322: Game Over

[Laplacian]

Glad cw is back and toning down the memes. However, they pop back in within 30 minutes of Kyouko saying cw had valid thoughts. Could just be good timing, but I'm also thinking scum chat coaching. Like, "tone it down before you get policied, go contribute next time you're mentioned"

am i just in the wrong scum chats. i have never had games like this where my partners tell me how to post

I've seen it before for total noobs, and even here we have DE being a "newbie coach" in the thread itself. I'm not saying it's a likely thing, just a possibility that popped into my mind from cw's convenient timing and sane posting today.

[Hu Tao]

I'm not sure who to vote anymore

[Laplacian]

Vote Ausuka for making this mess in the first place

[DragonEater70]

Based on people pushing Lap, there are three options:
1. He isn't scum
2. He is being heavily bussed
3. He is scum with exactly two of joyboy/cw/Hu Tao/FL

He isn't scum with FL because FL wouldn't let a scum buddy basically VT claim and stay at E-2 without a real counterwagon

I am ignoring the possibility of him being scum with Hu Tao for now and will come back to it later

He is not scum with exactly Joyboy/cw because having vanity wagons on each other while your partner is the main wagon is the best way to lose as mafia and I get the feeling Joyboy at least has SOME level of competence in Mafia.

So barring Hu Tao partnership, we eliminate option 3.

On option 2 it's a lot quicker: is there anyone who is positioned to gain towncred from Lap flipping scum? Not really. I mean Kyo is probably not scum with Lap so would look good if he flips scum, but since she's not scum with him she isn't bussing.

So it's also not very likely scum are bussing (unless scum are just really bad).

Conclusion:
Either Lap is just town, or scum are really bad and are doing a stupid bus right now (in which case I feel fine letting Lap live a little longer since his buddies probably will be revealed through associations), or Lap is scum with Hu Tao + somebody else.

Since I currently TR Hu Tao and since I think she'd probably react differently to a wagon on buddy (either bus or hard defend), I'm fine with saying he is most likely not scum with Hu Tao, but this is not a hard no like with Flavor.

Suggestion:
Let's start a new wagon
VOTE: Abneg
(I was already voting Abneg, now voting for a different reason)

[Abnegation]

partially the wording, partially because i think that's a very weird thing for pav to try to pass off as serious

What does this mean

laplacian is arguing that pav's 46 was made in such a way that pav could either (1) say it's a joke, or (2) say it's serious depending on which way the thread goes. i don't think (2) is realistic.

[Abnegation]

Lemme check myself before taking someone this one is wary of at face value

Okay checks out thank you :salute:
VOTE: Laplacian

To elaborate this one disagrees on Abne doing nothing but illusory acts of help, but more importantly just doesn't really think there's that "comedic veneer" from Pavowski and that 46 and 51 are secretly totally serious. ESPECIALLY not a fan of the sudden mood change after a reread, compare and contrast how 226 and 228 talk about Pavowski. Still don't like those early posts but certainly willing to write things off. It reeks of "scum failed to get people to kill this guy so they're walking away and saying 'yeah but i think they're cool now'".

I feel like I did the same thing with my read of Pavowski though, so I'm confused as to why you aren't questioning me for the same reasons?

Did you not just see this one openly say its wary of you?

I did see that, but I'm just curious as to why you have decided to go after Laplacian, but only briefly mentioned your wariness of me. What makes you think Laplacian is scummier than me?

56 comes after your post (obviously) but moreover just sucks. Tis a shitty sheep, as it were.

i'm mindmelding with hpe and i don't like it.

[Laplacian]

Based on people pushing Lap, there are three options:
1. He isn't scum
2. He is being heavily bussed
3. He is scum with exactly two of joyboy/cw/Hu Tao/FL

He isn't scum with FL because FL wouldn't let a scum buddy basically VT claim and stay at E-2 without a real counterwagon

I am ignoring the possibility of him being scum with Hu Tao for now and will come back to it later

He is not scum with exactly Joyboy/cw because having vanity wagons on each other while your partner is the main wagon is the best way to lose as mafia and I get the feeling Joyboy at least has SOME level of competence in Mafia.

So barring Hu Tao partnership, we eliminate option 3.

On option 2 it's a lot quicker: is there anyone who is positioned to gain towncred from Lap flipping scum? Not really. I mean Kyo is probably not scum with Lap so would look good if he flips scum, but since she's not scum with him she isn't bussing.

So it's also not very likely scum are bussing (unless scum are just really bad).

Conclusion:
Either Lap is just town, or scum are really bad and are doing a stupid bus right now (in which case I feel fine letting Lap live a little longer since his buddies probably will be revealed through associations), or Lap is scum with Hu Tao + somebody else.

Since I currently TR Hu Tao and since I think she'd probably react differently to a wagon on buddy (either bus or hard defend), I'm fine with saying he is most likely not scum with Hu Tao, but this is not a hard no like with Flavor.

Suggestion:
Let's start a new wagon
VOTE: Abneg
(I was already voting Abneg, now voting for a different reason)

While I'm obviously happy with your conclusion, why narrow a potential scum team with me + those 4 exactly? I see omitting Pav & Kyouko, but not say, Thom.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Based on people pushing Lap, there are three options:
1. He isn't scum
2. He is being heavily bussed
3. He is scum with exactly two of joyboy/cw/Hu Tao/FL

He isn't scum with FL because FL wouldn't let a scum buddy basically VT claim and stay at E-2 without a real counterwagon

I am ignoring the possibility of him being scum with Hu Tao for now and will come back to it later

He is not scum with exactly Joyboy/cw because having vanity wagons on each other while your partner is the main wagon is the best way to lose as mafia and I get the feeling Joyboy at least has SOME level of competence in Mafia.

So barring Hu Tao partnership, we eliminate option 3.

On option 2 it's a lot quicker: is there anyone who is positioned to gain towncred from Lap flipping scum? Not really. I mean Kyo is probably not scum with Lap so would look good if he flips scum, but since she's not scum with him she isn't bussing.

So it's also not very likely scum are bussing (unless scum are just really bad).

Conclusion:
Either Lap is just town, or scum are really bad and are doing a stupid bus right now (in which case I feel fine letting Lap live a little longer since his buddies probably will be revealed through associations), or Lap is scum with Hu Tao + somebody else.

Since I currently TR Hu Tao and since I think she'd probably react differently to a wagon on buddy (either bus or hard defend), I'm fine with saying he is most likely not scum with Hu Tao, but this is not a hard no like with Flavor.

Suggestion:
Let's start a new wagon
VOTE: Abneg
(I was already voting Abneg, now voting for a different reason)

1. You forgot to put yourself in option 3 where Lap is not being bussed and his teammates are off-wagon
2. It's pretty bold of you to assume what scum!FL would do

1+2 = {Lap,DE70,FL?}

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also forgot about 1 scum bussing 1 scum off-wagon I think but my brain goes straight to you excluding yourself as a partner

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Joyboy

[Laplacian]

Also forgot about 1 scum bussing 1 scum off-wagon I think but my brain goes straight to you excluding yourself as a partner

I'd assume any bus with 3 scum is 1 on and 1 off. It seems like it'd be the safest option rather than both trying to grab town cred

[Abnegation]

Also forgot about 1 scum bussing 1 scum off-wagon I think but my brain goes straight to you excluding yourself as a partner

why is that scum-indicative? i would think town are more likely to do that since they already know they're town and don't stop to consider a world where they're not town because it's not relevant to them.
the way you read into that detail reminds me a little of your past towngames though (i'm alianna). idk if you've done exactly that but it gives me a similar vibe.
i get that from some of the stuff you posted on page 12-13 too. reading really deeply into things, gives mildly conspiracy-ish vibes but not in a bad way.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Abnegation

I don’t have a real case, but I’m pinged by you.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m probs biased because they’re hard town reading me, but DragonEater like is someone with a very limited amount of experience in-game with me, but I feel they’ve gone out of their way to hard analyze me. They also modded a scum game of mine earlier, and was invested in another of my scum game with Abneg earlier this year.

They also meta dived a town game of mine. And that’s just what I know about, so it seems they’ve put a lot of work into trying to explain how I play (which normally isn’t good to do, because I change up my scum meta often deliberately)

For instance, all 3 of my scum games this year, I had a key hard mega death tunnel, which mirrored some of my town games, but they were all incredibly deliberate, and it’s known that I’d do that now, so I have to change meta up.

I let people think they know what my meta is.

The difference with DragonEater is that they came completely out of nowhere knowing my style for me, and was not on my radar.

So if they are scum doing this, they put a lot of effort over time setting up for this exact situation, and while I think that is also possible, I feel they’ve been incredibly genuine with everything about my slot this game, and I don’t really think it makes sense for them to

Slingshot

(generally support and in-thread empowerment) the way they have been.

[Abnegation]

i have to leave for a few hours, but i'll finish catching up then.

VOTE: Abnegation

I don’t have a real case, but I’m pinged by you.

by that, do you mean you have reasons but they aren't very strong, or do you mean it's entirely a gut read?

[DragonEater70]

partially the wording, partially because i think that's a very weird thing for pav to try to pass off as serious

What does this mean

laplacian is arguing that pav's 46 was made in such a way that pav could either (1) say it's a joke, or (2) say it's serious depending on which way the thread goes. i don't think (2) is realistic.

I got that

What is the "because" referring to

[Flavor Leaf]

i have to leave for a few hours, but i'll finish catching up then.

VOTE: Abnegation

I don’t have a real case, but I’m pinged by you.

by that, do you mean you have reasons but they aren't very strong, or do you mean it's entirely a gut read?

It’s not entirely gut.

I don’t like your dynamic towards HPE.

Like, to pull a Snivy, I agree with a lot of it, but I don’t like it when you say it.

[DragonEater70]

While I'm obviously happy with your conclusion, why narrow a potential scum team with me + those 4 exactly? I see omitting Pav & Kyouko, but not say, Thom.

As far as I could tell, you were Thom's biggest scumread and he wasn't voting you or anyone else. So as your scum buddy he'd be half-heartedly bussing you, which like I said is really bad play and I choose to believe he is not doing (or if he is doing it, then his play is really poor and I can probably find him as scum easily later on)

[DragonEater70]

Based on people pushing Lap, there are three options:
1. He isn't scum
2. He is being heavily bussed
3. He is scum with exactly two of joyboy/cw/Hu Tao/FL

He isn't scum with FL because FL wouldn't let a scum buddy basically VT claim and stay at E-2 without a real counterwagon

I am ignoring the possibility of him being scum with Hu Tao for now and will come back to it later

He is not scum with exactly Joyboy/cw because having vanity wagons on each other while your partner is the main wagon is the best way to lose as mafia and I get the feeling Joyboy at least has SOME level of competence in Mafia.

So barring Hu Tao partnership, we eliminate option 3.

On option 2 it's a lot quicker: is there anyone who is positioned to gain towncred from Lap flipping scum? Not really. I mean Kyo is probably not scum with Lap so would look good if he flips scum, but since she's not scum with him she isn't bussing.

So it's also not very likely scum are bussing (unless scum are just really bad).

Conclusion:
Either Lap is just town, or scum are really bad and are doing a stupid bus right now (in which case I feel fine letting Lap live a little longer since his buddies probably will be revealed through associations), or Lap is scum with Hu Tao + somebody else.

Since I currently TR Hu Tao and since I think she'd probably react differently to a wagon on buddy (either bus or hard defend), I'm fine with saying he is most likely not scum with Hu Tao, but this is not a hard no like with Flavor.

Suggestion:
Let's start a new wagon
VOTE: Abneg
(I was already voting Abneg, now voting for a different reason)

1. You forgot to put yourself in option 3 where Lap is not being bussed and his teammates are off-wagon
2. It's pretty bold of you to assume what scum!FL would do

1+2 = {Lap,DE70,FL?}

1. I am conftown in my own eyes. You are correct that objectively I could be in option 3, but actually I'm being ruled out by option 2 because I was also scumreading Lap and poking him.

2. It's not, I know quite a bit about FL

[DragonEater70]

You are STILL tunneled.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m not unpredictable as scum. I’m fluid, adaptable, and deliberate.

I think people who think I’m unreadable use it as a cop out to not try to read me.

[Flavor Leaf]

However, I’ll take it as a compliment considering I have nearly 10 years of meta on this site alone, and a How To Scum guide that people still can’t catch scumMe out.

[Flavor Leaf]

Reading me as scum is 1/3 of the battle.

[DragonEater70]

Also forgot about 1 scum bussing 1 scum off-wagon I think but my brain goes straight to you excluding yourself as a partner

VOTE: Joyboy

I could vote there

Also forgot about 1 scum bussing 1 scum off-wagon I think but my brain goes straight to you excluding yourself as a partner

why is that scum-indicative? i would think town are more likely to do that since they already know they're town and don't stop to consider a world where they're not town because it's not relevant to them.
the way you read into that detail reminds me a little of your past towngames though (i'm alianna). idk if you've done exactly that but it gives me a similar vibe.
i get that from some of the stuff you posted on page 12-13 too. reading really deeply into things, gives mildly conspiracy-ish vibes but not in a bad way.

I agree that Kyo is probably town for having that conspiracy theory solve

I just think she's a bit kooky with regards to making things fit. Like she got an explanation of why I made posts engaging Purple and it didn't make her re-evaluate her assessment that I was trying to draw attention away from Lap. She sees me not consider myself possible scum and her first thought is to point it out as possibly damning as a partner with Lap.

I’m probs biased because they’re hard town reading me, but DragonEater like is someone with a very limited amount of experience in-game with me, but I feel they’ve gone out of their way to hard analyze me. They also modded a scum game of mine earlier, and was invested in another of my scum game with Abneg earlier this year.

They also meta dived a town game of mine. And that’s just what I know about, so it seems they’ve put a lot of work into trying to explain how I play (which normally isn’t good to do, because I change up my scum meta often deliberately)

For instance, all 3 of my scum games this year, I had a key hard mega death tunnel, which mirrored some of my town games, but they were all incredibly deliberate, and it’s known that I’d do that now, so I have to change meta up.

I let people think they know what my meta is.

The difference with DragonEater is that they came completely out of nowhere knowing my style for me, and was not on my radar.

So if they are scum doing this, they put a lot of effort over time setting up for this exact situation, and while I think that is also possible, I feel they’ve been incredibly genuine with everything about my slot this game, and I don’t really think it makes sense for them to

Slingshot

(generally support and in-thread empowerment) the way they have been.

Which town game of yours have I meta dived?

And I agree, I do have limited in-game experience with you, but if you check my GTKAS you are listed as one of my favorite MS players and that is based partly on my experience as a mod also.
And I read a LOT of games (it's really fun tbh), so I often use meta reads from games I wasn't even a part of.

And slingshot means to support a town player as scum?

[Flavor Leaf]

Kyouko def dropped down a peg with that post.

I don’t really see Dragon/Lap being aligned here.

I kinda get Dragon/FL or FL/Lap, but like, I still think both of those are incredibly surface level and feel like narrative building rather than a genuine read.