open 894: near vanilla (game over)

[schadd_]

Spoiler:

Aerial view of Jaffa, Palestine,1916-1919

vote count 5.2 !

Aisa (4):

Skygazer, Titus, shaddowez, Afrayed Knott

JupiterXV (2):

Dannflor, ProjEctRy

not voting (4):

JupiterXV, Aisa, OutWorldER, Bellaphant

with 10 alive, it takes 6 to repossess someone's reptile. day 5 ends in (expired on 2024-01-02 15:14:36)

moderateur notes

• jarg.
  
• shaddowez is V/LA until wednesday. i assume other people potentially have other engagements for these next few days so im adding 49 hours and 12 minutes to the deadline

[Aisa]

When you're like "wow! three whole new posts" but two of them are semicolons

I am working on game-advancing content as we speak, I promise

[Skygazer]

UNVOTE:

[Aisa]

I just compared OWER's play to mini normal 2316, where he was scum. I think the difference between this game and that game is enough to seal in the townread. In the scumgame he's more aggressive and kind of goes out of his way to discredit some slots. In this game he's felt a bit more "passive". Here he seems more interested in comparing and contrasting different wagons.

I guess that gives me {ower, skygazer, afrayed} as slots that I feel fairly good about so far
been getting a bit of skygazer paranoia but eh don't think it's time to question that too much yet

[Aisa]

Uuugh mixed read on projectry

For example, in post 880 I townread how confidently he asks Titus to provide "an actual explanation outside of gut feelings to support [her] theory". I think trying to read Titus based on her being a lawyer is a pretty reachy argument though

[Aisa]

Also there has been a few times when Dann is questioned about things and he ignores them. My question at 863 and Afrayed’s at 1592 etc.

Maybe it isn’t AI that he ignores these, but I do find it odd. Everyone else seems to respond to direct questions.

Apologies if you have in fact answered these and I’ve missed the response.

Project over Jupiter, surely? Honestly I'd kind of be down to lim aisa just to get it out of the way, but I'm also tipsy.

Feeling lost but in regards to recent posts I town read this from Bella. If she was the last remaining scum she wouldn’t care whether it was me or Jupiter. There isn’t much need for scum to make such comment / question this.

I’m only really certain on Titus for obvious reasons. Dann I feel has to be town due to setting up the Black wagon, but there is just something about him I don’t trust. Otherwise, everyone else I’m largely unsure of. I’ve had suspicions of people, but they are never shared by other people so I lose confidence in them.

also like my old account on this site was yeezys so if you want you can read my only game on there where i was like 12 and

also had the most atrocious townplay known to mankind

Think I can give you a run for your money on that!

I think these are towny posts

[Aisa]

I also think it's kinda cool (read: towny) that a lot of Projectry's pushes seem to come from a common strand, eg:

But why is this allowed? Just because you are like this all the time, why should you be allowed to shitpost early and contribute later.

If you are listening to the facts and making a ruling, you should be able to point to specific things that lead you to conclude they are scum.

At 1341 Afrayed said if he was the JK then he would have targeted T3 or Shaddow, however he wasn’t voting either of these. Titus pulled him on this 1348 and he tried to defend it on the basis that logically he should have voted one of them, but his gut feeling said otherwise. I don’t particularly like this response. I think logic should take precedence.
[...]
Afrayed further votes and unvotes T3 again. At 1612 he states he’s not happy with the T3 vote and states whilst he accepts it’s the best vote mechanically, he thinks we should vote someone else instead. To me that’s odd. Surely the best vote mechanically is still the best vote.

He seems to scumread people a lot when they do something that departs from his idea of what responsible townplay ideally "should" look like. Idk, maybe this is actually scummy but I'm tempted to say the consistency in his methods is because he's a townie actually trying to solve the game

Gun to head I feel like he's not our guy. I also don't have a good sense of why people are scumreading him at the moment. Is it just PoE?

[Dannflor]

I agree project is town

[Afrayed Knott]

unvote][/unvote]

Aisa Ok, what are your thoughts on Shaddow please?


In 2001 you lost what is your developing town list but you don’t mention them there or now in your recent post.


You also state in 2001 that you are reevaluating Dann, where are you with that?

[Afrayed Knott]

EBWOP UNVOTE:

[Afrayed Knott]

Darn it EBWOP

“you

lost

list what is your developing town”

[Bellaphant]

I think I've dumped project in my 'scum?' pile because a lot of his earlier game posting, day one specifically, felt very nit-picky and unproductive: i remember them getting at sky and Titus for stuff that felt nai, and then questioning me a few times on stuff that again seemed really pointless.

However, I do agree with what aisa just said: it's like they have a very set idea and are applying it. I guess it stands out even more when a few of us knee each other/low key town blocked early on.

Scum!project making the post about me sr them instead of Jupiter just feels like it wouldn't happen from scum?

I feel slightly worse about ak than I did.

I'm going to read out now

[Bellaphant]

I also think, as my read now is a bit ??? On Jupiter, that it wouldn't be the end of the world to lim the slot. There are more readable people out there. Like, Jupiter, knot and maybe shadow feel like ok lims.


What we don't have as the days were quick are many other wagons 'for info'

[Bellaphant]

Fundamentally I don't think Dann can be scum here simply because I don't think his shift onto Black at the end of the day can't be SvS. Black wasn't in danger of being limmed until Dann voted her, and Dann was fully aware that he was in a position where Titus and a bunch of other people who were sheeping him would shift onto his vote to consolidate. If Dann doesn't vote Black there, Black most likely doesn't die D1 and they have time to try and discredit Titus's solve in the future.

With that in mind, I think Aisa's catchup sucks and her shifting Project read makes me reconsider my own Project read.

Sorry, I know it's annoying to go back to a thing you said two weeks ago, but can you talk me through why you think danns vote was the trigger?

I have other thoughts on your iso but I wanna engage on this first.

[Bellaphant]

T3's iso makes me feel slightly worse about sky and aisa. On to black!

[Dannflor]

I have some stuff i wanna say but it’ll have to wait until later tonight

[OutWorldER]

Fundamentally I don't think Dann can be scum here simply because I don't think his shift onto Black at the end of the day can't be SvS. Black wasn't in danger of being limmed until Dann voted her, and Dann was fully aware that he was in a position where Titus and a bunch of other people who were sheeping him would shift onto his vote to consolidate. If Dann doesn't vote Black there, Black most likely doesn't die D1 and they have time to try and discredit Titus's solve in the future.

With that in mind, I think Aisa's catchup sucks and her shifting Project read makes me reconsider my own Project read.

Sorry, I know it's annoying to go back to a thing you said two weeks ago, but can you talk me through why you think danns vote was the trigger?

I have other thoughts on your iso but I wanna engage on this first.

A lot of D1 was Titus and Dann compromising on who they wanted to lim, and it was mostly those two who were leading the conversation as Town for the majority of the day, and also those two who were mostly trusted by other people during D1. Dann's vote caused Titus to swap, and that caused things to escalate all the way to a Black lim.

[OutWorldER]

can i get a summary of where your reads are at?

i don't really have a sense of where you're at except scum reading titus

but you're not even voting titus anymore

I'm voting Titus

Project
Dannflor

Kurtapika
Jupiter
Aisa

shaddow
CCS
Bellaphant
OWER

Afrayed
T3

Sky
Titus

This is probably where I'm at rn

In order:
(Hard defended by Black when Dann began voting Skygazer in Project v. Skygazer. Possible partner)
(Most Likely Town)
(Flipped Town)
(Townread by Black but Black was also throwing a bit of shade at them through various points throughout D1. Not confident based on assocatives alone, but D3 play tells me that Jupiter is probably just town)
(Townread by Black but no real interactions between the two of them. Soft defenses by Black of Aisa at certain points. Possible partner)
(Top of Black's null pile yet she was casting suspicion on him all day and was voting him at one point. Shaddowez vote came in opposition to Kurta wagon (550). Black attempted to link Bella and Shaddow together as scum. Possibly trying to link them together, mislim shaddow, and then call Bella town off of associatives? I think probably town.)
(Flipped Town)
(See Shaddowez. Also voted by Black in one of the game's earliest wagons. Earliness of the wagon could just be Black not thinking Bella would actually go anywhere. According to this readlist, Bella was more sus than Shaddow, but Black seemed to push Shaddowez more after Bella's early game wagon fizzled out. Early game wagon could be T3 and Black distancing from Bella? Not confident in anything here.)
(Town)
(Black hard pushed by Knott. Black seemed genuinely frustrated with AK's case. Black called for AK's wagon at one point. Probably town off associatives)
(Pushed by both Black and T3, 1v1'd T3, most likely town)
(Mafia)
(Jailkeeper, Confirmed Town)

Apologies if this is unreadable.

Rereading and Ctrl+F through Black's ISO really just makes me want to lim Project more but there's a case for Bella and Aisa too, I think.

[OutWorldER]

I'll do T3's ISO later but tbh

VOTE: Project

I still think this is the vote. I still think this is the last scum. I think Jupiter's interactions with Dann and AK today have been genuine, especially on page 82 and 83 I think Juptier's cluelessness is genuine and I just feel more confident about this than Aisa or anybody else. These past few days also feel like he's mostly just been coasting, and I think his Jupiter vote sucks.

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, I just looked through blacks iso and I'm conf!biased now but their approach to aisa, sky, jupiter and shadow is to basically ignore them, apart from the weird sky vote which feels out of nowhere.

[Bellaphant]

Sorry, not shadow.

[Titus]

Shouldn't we compare Black's tone with T3 as the baseline?

[ProjEctRy]

Rereading and Ctrl+F through Black's ISO really just makes me want to lim Project more but there's a case for Bella and Aisa too, I think.

If you have other reasons to scum read me that’s fine, but I don’t see how you can think Black’s interactions with me were anything other than Black pocketing me.

This is my first ever game and I was ripe for the picking. She was overly complimentary of me and was clearly drawing me in.

If I was her scum partner, wouldn’t she avoid so overtly defending or supporting me? Surely that would be too risky of an association.

[ProjEctRy]

I'll do T3's ISO later but tbh

VOTE: Project

I still think this is the vote. I still think this is the last scum. I think Jupiter's interactions with Dann and AK today have been genuine, especially on page 82 and 83 I think Juptier's cluelessness is genuine and I just feel more confident about this than Aisa or anybody else. These past few days also feel like he's mostly just been coasting, and I think his Jupiter vote sucks.

I’d 100% agree I’ve been coasting. Again this is my first game and I’ve already mentioned that I’m struggling.

I’m struggling to formulate my own reads the longer the game goes on so I am relying upon other peoples reads and then considering whether I find them believable or not.

[OutWorldER]

Rereading and Ctrl+F through Black's ISO really just makes me want to lim Project more but there's a case for Bella and Aisa too, I think.

If you have other reasons to scum read me that’s fine, but I don’t see how you can think Black’s interactions with me were anything other than Black pocketing me.

This is my first ever game and I was ripe for the picking. She was overly complimentary of me and was clearly drawing me in.

If I was her scum partner, wouldn’t she avoid so overtly defending or supporting me? Surely that would be too risky of an association.

Or she could simply not be confident in your ability to defend yourself/formulate a push without help? Skygazer directly points out in the conversation where she was defending you that he'd rather be talking to you directly, and Black was pretty much speaking for you. That could very easily be Black trying to over-accommodate for a newer scum-partner.

You're argument here also disproves itself; It's not "too risky of an association" because you and others have been making the argument that it's pocketing and not mafia being partnered. In addition, and I think the critical point here, is that if Black is pocketing you then the strategy she had with you is incredibly unclear. As far as I can tell from her ISO, she never tries to get you to vote with her, and you never built up the credibility nor the motivation/activity to be a voice in her defense.

I concede there's a chance she was pocketing you. I just think it's much more likely you two were partnered instead.