Open 898: Don't Fall In The Volcano! | Game Over!

[Dannflor]

VOTE: klick

[Dannflor]

Black town

Vote your scum buddy with me Clap

[Dannflor]

I would like to roll scum with black one day

[Dannflor]

I don’t really like hydraing but maybe one day I’ll change my mind

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Black

On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?

It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy. Would give examples but I'm on my phone.

why didn’t you vote klick

[Dannflor]

Black what do you think i look for to read you

[Dannflor]

VOTE: claptastic

[Dannflor]

I am not going to explain my original klick read or push specifically to piss Dragons off

[Dannflor]

but i think klick is more likely to be town now for *reasons*

currently think claptastic is the most likely slot to flip scum

maybe followed by neko but that’s a less defined read

Basically i think clap’s catchup and jump on Black was way over justified and more focused on looking townie than anything else

[Dannflor]

I think Black is more likely to be town right now. I dont have a lock read yet but im confident i can get a very confident read there given enough time

I have an extremely good record of reading Black and if people can find me as town it would be cool if people trusted that

Dragon I believe it’s obvious he wants to catch scum!black and will do so by tunneling her regardless of her alignment so he can say he caught her

[Dannflor]

Black i would prefer you voted for clap

[Dannflor]

I think klick is approaching this in a way that doesn’t optically make him look very good

Clap intentionally is

[Dannflor]

Klick's townplay is generally very good and I'm legitimately shocked he agrees with some of the reasons being presented against me, so I think it's more likely he's just scum going along with the easy counterwagon

I agree with zero of the reasons but I don't think that means you're town

???

So you see people casing me for like 10 reasons that you don't agree with and you have no reaction to it at all?

I also think Dragon is town, his reasons for pushing you are bad but that doesnt mean he is scum

[Dannflor]

I think it’s reasonable for klick to want to pressure you

He doesn’t have to think you are lock scum like dragon to want to put pressure on you to sort you

[Dannflor]

I just think it seems really convenient to hop on my wagon despite not agreeing with any of the reasons why I could be scum

right doesnt that look opticLly bad?

like why not invent his own unique overjustified case?

oh wait that was claptastic who did that

[Dannflor]

VOTE: kawaiii

[Dannflor]

kawaii is just asking a lot of nothing questions and kind of commentating the game

i don't super feel they are invested in finding scum

[Dannflor]

do either of you specifically town read kawaii or do you just believe that isn't a reason to scum read them

[Dannflor]

@dannfor

It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy.

Would give examples but I'm on my phone.

This post implies I'm going to come back with a detailed case on black when I'm at my computer. Why was it scummy of me to do so?

VOTE: Black

On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?

It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy. Would give examples but I'm on my phone.

why didn’t you vote klick

Because I only have one vote.

I'm assuming this regards klick putting out town reads at the same time as black. I've shown that black's were indeed weak and rebuttable, while klick's were signficantly stronger. I've also explained how I relate those facts to alignment. What do you think of all that?

i don't believe i said 185 specifically was scummy, but i do think you seemed overly anxious to have bulletproof and unique reasons to be scum reading black


like you said enough in 185, and then i find your followup in 243 to be more about the performance than anything else.


like i don't think you read all the posts you highlighted and have these thoughts. i think you wanted to scum read black and then reinforced that with 243 afterwards

that's something town sometimes too but it comes from scum an awful lot of the time that want to make their reads seem more real, and more importantly, bulletproof to argue against

[Dannflor]

VOTE: claptastik

i think klick/claptastik is still my top 360 no-scope pick for a scum team actually

i don't really think claptastik has towned it up at all and i think it's very ??? to say the back and forth with Black is town indicative for both of them. I think Black leans town but the argument itself very much leans towards the type of pointless arguments that scum love to participate in because it gives them free content. I don't understand why Klick thinks its town indicative for both of them.

I also don't really think it makes sense for Claptastik to think I'm townier than fakegod or kawaii

368 is a weird hedgey post on me that kind just fearmongers me without outright pushing me

[Dannflor]

I don't know with Klick I like instantly felt that something was off about how he was posting

he did later say that he was trying to incorporate elements of poker or something into his gameplay which i thought maybe explained the difference and he was intentionally trying to play more reserved

but idk at this point i am leaning back towards klick mimicking his town game as opposed to actually being town.

[Dannflor]

I am not going to be able to explain this in a very satisfactory way for many people because a lot of it is just vibes

but for instance the tvt read on Black vs. Claptastik feels convenient, not actually the read i would expect klick to have, and more passive and observational than actually trying to convince either of these two players of that opinion

this might be unfair because maybe klick's reads are actually better than mine and I'm expecting him to have my own wrong reads, but idk how else to explain this

vibes are off with 504 too

it feels performative and like klick is trying to replicate a stream of consciousness style thought and read

i dunno this read is less strong than my claptastik read and i might cool off of it when i come back to the thread but at a gut level that's where I'm at right now

[Dannflor]

think klick/claptastik is still my top 360 no-scope pick for a scum team actually

I don't know with Klick I like instantly felt that something was off about how he was posting

This is hard to believe considering you townread him for *reasons* and tried to dismantle his wagon

remember my read on blackstar

[Dannflor]

i think fakegod has a certain self-righteousness this game that i want to town read

[Dannflor]

Black I'm pretty sure is town

[Dannflor]

Why are you voting Clap over Klick when it seems pretty obvious that there is a bigger appetite for a Klick wagon

i don't feel as confident in my read on klick

i think clap flips scum a lot of the time

i think there are some people on this playerlist who might be likely to follow me onto the wagon of my choosing

[Dannflor]

there's also an element of I think Klick is a great town player and he could be having an off game or i could be having an off game but if I give him time I'll be able to find him as town

i think there's a certain threshold of time where if I still couldn't find him as town i would be more comfortable limming him

[Dannflor]

I am oscillating between fakegod having performative scummy outrage or self-righteous towny outrage tbh

[Dannflor]

and yes black i realize i am playing into your dann/klick pet theory by being hedgey and uncomittal about him

[Dannflor]

yea tbh I don't like dann simply because he won't explain his train of thought

Problem is that someone with that join date and post count could very well be town, and could very well have good reads. And they're difficult to lim. It's a type that's good for investigatives to check.

i just want to quote this again to say i have a deep primal distaste for this post

[Dannflor]

where do you have klick

[Dannflor]

i don't believe i said 185 specifically was scummy, but i do think you seemed overly anxious to have bulletproof and unique reasons to be scum reading black

like you said enough in 185, and then i find your followup in 243 to be more about the performance than anything else.

like i don't think you read all the posts you highlighted and have these thoughts. i think you wanted to scum read black and then reinforced that with 243 afterwards

that's something town sometimes too but it comes from scum an awful lot of the time that want to make their reads seem more real, and more importantly, bulletproof to argue against

I'm town. You're projecting because it's something in your own scum bag of tricks. For example:
viewtopic.php?p=13971095#p13971095

I'm town. You should look elsewhere.

Currently I have black, neko, de70, and you north of null
skygazer null
fakegod, kawaii - scum pool

I guess I doubt it's this easy, but it sure seems like it is.

is there a reason you linked a scum game of mine besides to show off that you’ve been metaing people

[Dannflor]

Maybe dragon is scum

[Dannflor]

Maybe dragon is scum

Yuck

My inactivity is NAI bruh

who said anything about your inactivity

[Dannflor]

Here is something that is bothering me Dann

I think Black's expressed paranoia of the two of us looks rather towny

I also think that positioning to want either you or me out today is exactly what Black would want to be doing if she were scum here

Can you help me alleviate my cognitive dissonance there, because I both see Black!town and think this is too good for Black!scum

I think Black is slightly less likely to want to pick a fight with me as scum

I think the fact that Black has not been pushing this as her main POV of the game but rather a side/conspiracy/pocket read is towny, it's a little more nuanced than I'd expect

[Dannflor]

Meh

I promise I'll read everything that transpired since my fight with Black at SOME point, but I am not sure it will be today because like Black I also got a job recently and have less time for mafia during the day.

And I already have plans for this evening.

I am still anti-voting Klick and will continue to do so until I see a good case against him (which I haven't seen yet. 504 is a pretty NAI post).

Also if Klick is Dann's partner we should vote Dann.

Maybe dragon is scum

I don't see who Dragon is scum with in this scenario though
Like in a vacuum I can see why 579 looks scummy. But most variations of scum!Dragon should be pretty satisfied with the game narrative and not have a huge reason to draw attention peddling the Klick/Dann theory

If it were like Dragon/FakeGod, then I'm not sure why Dragon is putting pressure on us just as FakeGod has removed his vote on me. It's discordant
It's weird from a Dragon/Clap team as well

I could maaaaybe see Dragon/Kawaii coordinating in this way?

i don't think scum teams think this way generally

[Dannflor]

Do you think that Dann's read here comes from town? I can't see what thought process would lead him there.

you don't know what my thought process is

is your claim that i could never scum read you here as town

[Dannflor]

klick posting made me feel less bad about him

[Dannflor]

that's interesting

[Dannflor]

what does everyone think of 577

[Dannflor]

Is it?

it's incorrect and a little boneheaded but that kind of suits the character you're playing this game

[Dannflor]

my primary concern with you dragon is that i wonder if you are more concerned with looking like you're brash and self-confident than you are in actually finding scum

[Dannflor]

do you wanna talk about why you are so sure

[Dannflor]

I have already explained my read extensively

[Dannflor]

I don't know with Klick I like instantly felt that something was off about how he was posting

he did later say that he was trying to incorporate elements of poker or something into his gameplay which i thought maybe explained the difference and he was intentionally trying to play more reserved

but idk at this point i am leaning back towards klick mimicking his town game as opposed to actually being town.

I am not going to be able to explain this in a very satisfactory way for many people because a lot of it is just vibes

but for instance the tvt read on Black vs. Claptastik feels convenient, not actually the read i would expect klick to have, and more passive and observational than actually trying to convince either of these two players of that opinion

this might be unfair because maybe klick's reads are actually better than mine and I'm expecting him to have my own wrong reads, but idk how else to explain this

vibes are off with 504 too

it feels performative and like klick is trying to replicate a stream of consciousness style thought and read

i dunno this read is less strong than my claptastik read and i might cool off of it when i come back to the thread but at a gut level that's where I'm at right now

there's also an element of I think Klick is a great town player and he could be having an off game or i could be having an off game but if I give him time I'll be able to find him as town

i think there's a certain threshold of time where if I still couldn't find him as town i would be more comfortable limming him

klick posting made me feel less bad about him

[Dannflor]

I don't know with Klick I like instantly felt that something was off about how he was posting

he did later say that he was trying to incorporate elements of poker or something into his gameplay which i thought maybe explained the difference and he was intentionally trying to play more reserved

but idk at this point i am leaning back towards klick mimicking his town game as opposed to actually being town.

This? Then I don't get what made you go "oh klick is town for *reasons*"

i thought klick had started intentionally playing more reserved and was not playing to get town read, which made me think he was town

[Dannflor]

i didn't explain forever mostly just because i was annoyed by your posting and wanted to annoy you back

i am very mature

[Dannflor]

do you have recent thoughts on claptastik

[Dannflor]

i think it's interesting that fakegod stopped pushing his counterwagon, and is not pushing anyone at all now

kinda feels unintuitive if he's scum

[Dannflor]

I am feeling like I have a decent amount of town reads that I feel somewhat comfortable in but my feelings about who is scum are increasingly fuzzy

Black's reasons for townreading Claptastik are fine - but idk that they do a lot for me. without any prior experience with Clap I am kind of assuming that he is someone who will do meta research and use that within game regardless of alignment.

if [black, dragon, klick] are town

that leaves [nekolover, fakegod, kawaiikeme, skygazer, claptastik]

of that group i feel best about skygazer and worst about kawaiikeme/claptastik

nekolover and fakegod i am having an extremely hard time sorting

[Dannflor]

yeah i guess im fine with that poe

[Dannflor]

i keep coming back to how strange of a post 577 is

[Dannflor]

that wagon can easily be all town

i reject the premise that because a wagon builds quickly that makes it more likely for scum to be on it

[Dannflor]

my gut instinct about neko is that new scum often use the "idk what's going on i have no reads" as a shield, however, i feel that neko is different because there seems to be some genuine frustration around not getting a bead on anyone. that is, it seems more like a genuinely difficult situation for neko to be in and not just a convenient position to take up.

[Dannflor]

VOTE: kawaii

[Dannflor]

maybe i should just let klick write my posts for me

[Dannflor]

cases are for convincing people of a gut scum read, they aren't actually the reasons for a scum read

[Dannflor]

I want to lean towards town just because like, he's kind of playing to lose if he's scum?

not pushing any counter wagons,

devotes his time to a random town case on Black

seems generally stubborn and self-righteous

idk I've misread those types of qualities before as scum I suppose but it doesn't *feel* right to me.

[Dannflor]

it's also like pretty devastating to lose scum D1 in most variations of this setup so i'd be expecting him to be a bit more survivalistic i suppose

granted now that I've said that it's not really a great metric to read people by

[Dannflor]

also there's no one ( i guess besides me now ) that is outright defending fakegod

it feels like he's a miselim but also one scum might not necessarily want to get their hands dirty with?

i just ctrl + f'd fakegod in Kawaii's ISO and kawaii has like... a very very soft town read on the slot, maybe? it feels yucky to me

[Dannflor]

ig i think claptastik/kawaii is the solve rnow in my heart of hearts

[Dannflor]

sooooo we’re in autowin i believe

[Dannflor]

It’s follow the jailkeeper

Fakegod is innocent due to me jailing him last night

Whoever the Tracker is is also confirmed innocent

That is at least 3 innos with 7 people alive

I will announce who I’m jailing before we end the day everyday. If I die, that person is confirmed innocent. That means tomorrow it would be 5 people alive with 3 innocents. In F3 we’d have 2 innos.

So, scum is forced to no kill. But that ends with us just eliminating the unconfirmed people down the line.

[Dannflor]

It’s unfortunate but due to the setup scum’s best move was not to kill anyone last night. Losing the roleblocker like that regardless is brutal. I feel really bad for whoever the last scum is

[Dannflor]

No need to rush it but yes i will jail neko

If neko dies today ill jail sky

[Dannflor]

It’s unfortunate but due to the setup scum’s best move was not to kill anyone last night.

Holy shit you are right

How did this setup pass as Newbie setup???

are they high?

Maybe because it wasn't meant to be played with experienced players that could eliminate the scum d1

Yeah this setup is very well balanced actually (although various sub-setups lean various ways), but it is notoriously difficult for scum if a mafia member dies D1. ESPECIALLY, if that mafia member is a role blocker

[Dannflor]

Wait so isn't scums best bet to not eliminate anyway to frame a jailed player?

Yes, but if scum doesn’t kill, they have to deal with 3 confirmed innocent players

[Dannflor]

ok im jailing skygazer

sorry neko for the boring game

You were fun to play with though

[Dannflor]

I jailed sky

Remember that claptastik, me, fakegod are conf town

The lim today is between black/dragon/skygazer

I’ll jail skygazer again tonight or black if skygazer dies today instead

[Dannflor]

VOTE: sky

I’ll jail Black tonight, reminder that if I were to die that Black is confirmed innocent

[Dannflor]

gg

Thanks for modding

That was… unfortunate for scum