open 894: near vanilla (game over)

[Bellaphant]

I think it's more interesting to look at the people black just doesn't make sense on?

[OutWorldER]

I think it's more interesting to look at the people black just doesn't make sense on?

Who do you think Black doesn't make sense about? From my POV, the only people I can't make sense of where Black was going with her read are you and Shaddowez.

[ProjEctRy]

You're argument here also disproves itself; It's not "too risky of an association" because you and others have been making the argument that it's pocketing and not mafia being partnered. In addition, and I think the critical point here, is that if Black is pocketing you then the strategy she had with you is incredibly unclear. As far as I can tell from her ISO, she never tries to get you to vote with her, and you never built up the credibility nor the motivation/activity to be a voice in her defense.

I concede there's a chance she was pocketing you. I just think it's much more likely you two were partnered instead.

I don’t think the argument does disprove itself, because other people thought I was scum because of this association (just most now see it as me being pocketed).

Plus you are still trying to lim me largely based upon Black’s interactions with me. You presumably want this to gain traction, so if I was limmed largely based upon this reasoning, then if I was scum, then it would have been too risky of an association for Black.

[OutWorldER]

I'm trying to lim you for a variable smorgasbord of reasons, the Black interactions are just the biggest sticking point for me. Whose "other people" in this context? I've been basically the only one scum-reading you for a while now, as far I can tell. When people were scumreading you before me it was for your push on Skygazer.

You're also talking as if you can see inside Black's mind. How do you

know

that Black would've found it too risky an association? How do you know Black wasn't simply confident that she or T3, or even yourself could talk your way out of the assocation? How do you know that Black wasn't confident that her interactions with you wouldn't be seen as pocketing? How do you know if she simply just wasn't thinking about it that hard?

This is what I meant when I say that the argument of it "being too risky an association" disproves itself because you inherently have multiple outs to the situation, further compounded by the fact that your defense is predicated on attempting to dissect the thought process of a player who is no longer able to post in the game thread. It's not an argument for why you're not scum, it's just WIFOM.

[Afrayed Knott]

Rereading and Ctrl+F through Black's ISO really just makes me want to lim Project more but there's a case for Bella and Aisa too, I think.

If you have other reasons to scum read me that’s fine, but I don’t see how you can think Black’s interactions with me were anything other than Black pocketing me.

This is my first ever game and I was ripe for the picking. She was overly complimentary of me and was clearly drawing me in.

If I was her scum partner, wouldn’t she avoid so overtly defending or supporting me? Surely that would be too risky of an association.

I read this and immediately thought, yes it’s pretty much how I have seen Black play with a townie. In the game I’m talking about I thought she was actually helping a scum partner out, and then I spent the rest of the majority of the game trying to lim the townie whom she pocketed.


So to me this seems a viable explanation. Does that mean I think you are town or scum, at this stage I’m unsure. I feel Dann and Ower are town,
But I am wary of most except Titus at this stage to be totally frank.

Until Asia’s latest posts, which made sense to me, I was strong reading her as scum. I still believe Jupiter could also be the last scum.

But my wariness comes from the situation we currently have. Scum has been deliberately not NKing, and allowing us to pick ourselves off when Titus tells us who she JK’d. The rider on this is that Titus may actually have JK’d scum last night. Which means that Aisa can hide behind the hope that we are adverse to lim the JK target because of previous Lims, To me that seems a gamble but a plausible one.

[Afrayed Knott]

So logically then we should stick with limming the JK target? I sort of see that now. And agree
I was blind to it before. It’s a U turn and I apologize to Titus for that.

[OutWorldER]

I firmly believe Jupiter is not scum here both based on interactions with Black and their play today. (I do realize now that I said D3 in my wall focusing on Black's readslist, I meant D5)

I'm fine with an Aisa lim tbh but I still feel confident about Project and I don't feel like letting him coast for the rest of the game.

[ProjEctRy]

So logically then we should stick with limming the JK target? I sort of see that now. And agree
I was blind to it before. It’s a U turn and I apologize to Titus for that.

Apologies if I’m being stupid here, but what is the logic behind this?

Titus hasn’t had a positive result yet, all have been null haven’t they?

So Titus’s targets haven’t actually concretely informed us of anything yet due to scum no killing. So why would we lim based upon this at this stage?

Or am I completely misunderstanding?

[ProjEctRy]

I'm trying to lim you for a variable smorgasbord of reasons, the Black interactions are just the biggest sticking point for me. Whose "other people" in this context? I've been basically the only one scum-reading you for a while now, as far I can tell. When people were scumreading you before me it was for your push on Skygazer.

You're also talking as if you can see inside Black's mind. How do you

know

that Black would've found it too risky an association? How do you know Black wasn't simply confident that she or T3, or even yourself could talk your way out of the assocation? How do you know that Black wasn't confident that her interactions with you wouldn't be seen as pocketing? How do you know if she simply just wasn't thinking about it that hard?

This is what I meant when I say that the argument of it "being too risky an association" disproves itself because you inherently have multiple outs to the situation, further compounded by the fact that your defense is predicated on attempting to dissect the thought process of a player who is no longer able to post in the game thread. It's not an argument for why you're not scum, it's just WIFOM.

I thought other people had raised this issue as well? I’ll need to go back and check if you don’t think that’s right.

But you’re right that I don’t know what went on in Black’s head and just because something is risky doesn’t mean nobody would do it.

I think the issue for me is that I now know that I was pocketed. I feel embarrassed by that, because I look back now and think it was so clearly obvious, so I struggle to understand anyone else thinking it was anything other than me being pocketed.

[Afrayed Knott]

So logically then we should stick with limming the JK target? I sort of see that now. And agree
I was blind to it before. It’s a U turn and I apologize to Titus for that.

Apologies if I’m being stupid here, but what is the logic behind this?

Titus hasn’t had a positive result yet, all have been null haven’t they?

So Titus’s targets haven’t actually concretely informed us of anything yet due to scum no killing. So why would we lim based upon this at this stage?

Or am I completely misunderstanding?

How do we know that she wasn’t positive last night? Or do you know something we do not?

Seriously though I see the logic in it because it’s very much a roll of the dice made on her suspicions, don’t you feel the odds may well roll her way. But it was a question based on an earlier comment by I think Titus, that it is logical to lim
The JK target, more than a statement of fact.

[Afrayed Knott]

I firmly believe Jupiter is not scum here both based on interactions with Black and their play today. (I do realize now that I said D3 in my wall focusing on Black's readslist, I meant D5)

I'm fine with an Aisa lim tbh but I still feel confident about Project and I don't feel like letting him coast for the rest of the game.

I think there are a lot of us guilty of coasting. In particular as Titus is unchallenged we are all sitting back waiting for her to give us a read. In addition to that I think many are also waiting for Dann to lead a wagon. Which is not a good thing at all if he is scum.

So I’m not convinced he has coasted more or less that others?

[Afrayed Knott]

Which really does include you, have a look at the activity count.

[Afrayed Knott]

Shaddow 62 posts, Project 72 posts, Ower 80 posts

[Afrayed Knott]

So I think your argument is rather moot and falls on its face

[ProjEctRy]

So logically then we should stick with limming the JK target? I sort of see that now. And agree
I was blind to it before. It’s a U turn and I apologize to Titus for that.

Apologies if I’m being stupid here, but what is the logic behind this?

Titus hasn’t had a positive result yet, all have been null haven’t they?

So Titus’s targets haven’t actually concretely informed us of anything yet due to scum no killing. So why would we lim based upon this at this stage?

Or am I completely misunderstanding?

How do we know that she wasn’t positive last night? Or do you know something we do not?

Seriously though I see the logic in it because it’s very much a roll of the dice made on her suspicions, don’t you feel the odds may well roll her way. But it was a question based on an earlier comment by I think Titus, that it is logical to lim
The JK target, more than a statement of fact.

We don’t know whether it’s been positive, but hasn’t it be thrown about that scum are purposefully not night killing. If we believe this is the tactic they are pursuing then Titus’s targets don’t reveal anything.

I wouldn’t necessarily say the odds are in our favour. She has targeted two people who turned out to be town.

I’m not necessarily sure either way, I’m more just trying to actually understanding the logic behind it.

[Afrayed Knott]

So logically then we should stick with limming the JK target? I sort of see that now. And agree
I was blind to it before. It’s a U turn and I apologize to Titus for that.

Apologies if I’m being stupid here, but what is the logic behind this?

Titus hasn’t had a positive result yet, all have been null haven’t they?

So Titus’s targets haven’t actually concretely informed us of anything yet due to scum no killing. So why would we lim based upon this at this stage?

Or am I completely misunderstanding?

How do we know that she wasn’t positive last night? Or do you know something we do not?

Seriously though I see the logic in it because it’s very much a roll of the dice made on her suspicions, don’t you feel the odds may well roll her way. But it was a question based on an earlier comment by I think Titus, that it is logical to lim
The JK target, more than a statement of fact.

We don’t know whether it’s been positive, but hasn’t it be thrown about that scum are purposefully not night killing. If we believe this is the tactic they are pursuing then Titus’s targets don’t reveal anything.

I wouldn’t necessarily say the odds are in our favour. She has targeted two people who turned out to be town.

I’m not necessarily sure either way, I’m more just trying to actually understanding the logic behind it.

You are pretty much echoing what I have said above

[ProjEctRy]

Actually if it was positive would Titus not know? Does her result not say she was successful?

[Afrayed Knott]

Actually if it was positive would Titus not know? Does her result not say she was successful?

No I don’t think so. That would make it an OP PR

[Bellaphant]

How do you mean?

[Bellaphant]

To project, I can't understand what's being asked.

[ProjEctRy]

You are pretty much echoing what I have said above

I’m just getting confused now

I thought you were agreeing with OWER and saying it is logical or a good thing to lim the JK’s target. I’m saying so far that the JK’s target has given us nothing.

[Bellaphant]

I think it's more interesting to look at the people black just doesn't make sense on?

Who do you think Black doesn't make sense about? From my POV, the only people I can't make sense of where Black was going with her read are you and Shaddowez.

Aisa particularly: she semi ignores the slot and then has her as top five town? And sky for opposite reasons ...semi ignores then randomly wagons. Sky I can see as being an opportunistic vote maybe

P-edit we can't trust Titus's night result to be a guilty, no.

[ProjEctRy]

Actually if it was positive would Titus not know? Does her result not say she was successful?

No I don’t think so. That would make it an OP PR

Oh right, I thought she would know whether it was positive. Essentially that would be the reward for correctly jailing scum.

[Afrayed Knott]

You are pretty much echoing what I have said above

I’m just getting confused now

I thought you were agreeing with OWER and saying it is logical or a good thing to lim the JK’s target. I’m saying so far that the JK’s target has given us nothing.

Ok let’s back track here, above I present what I think is the current game state, with regards to what is happening. And how we should handle it to break what is basically, if you think about it, a hunt by scum to out the last PR.

Think about why scum might be motivated to not NK, he or she or they may well be waiting for Titus to

1. target the Doc, and so prevent the doc from protecting Titus and so they NK Titus. For this to be a thing they would have to target Titus each night, So not technically an NK.


2. He She or they are waiting for us to lim all JK targets as we progress and leave it to a 3 person game. But then that’s a gamble because they may well be the JK target.


3. As I said above, they are waiting to be the JK target and hope, because we are not limming the JK Target, that they survive. This has only come about because we limmed the first two targets without thought and are now cautious. As I said it’s a gamble on their part.

Thus my thought we should probably lim the JK target for now. And it was a question not a statement of fact.

[schadd_]

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