Mini 2321: Classic Commercials (Postgame)

[Hu Tao]

I don't know for sure if he's scum but why not. At least if cele is town it'll give our other PRs free reign if there is a rber.

[SirCakez]

VOTE: awiz

[Roden]

VOTE: Wiz

[DragonEater70]

flavor

VC 2.06

VC 2.06

AnimatedWiz (4): Dunnstral, Hu Tao, SirCakez, Roden
Celebloki (2): Flavor Leaf, AnimatedWiz
Hu Tao (1): Bingle
Naerys (1): Celebloki
RCEnigma (1): Naerys

Not voting (2): RCEnigma, Thomith

It takes 6 votes to eliminate someone.

Deadline: (expired on 2023-12-28 00:59:40).

Combined mod ISO: here.

[Bingle]

Hm, I appreciate you explaining how he would be solved before LimLo, because that was a question I forgot to ask earlier—didn’t understand that you meant a Roleblocker flipping would help confirm him.

I… am loathe to wait on a possible flip though, because what if we never get that? What if the Roleblocker survives to LimLo, or we just don’t have one at all? Do we assume he’s lying, or do we give him the benefit of the doubt? I would rather just eliminate him now instead of possibly miselimming someone else instead.

I mean... if the slot isn't resolved by massclaim day (traditionally limlo-1) it should resolve itself based on balance and if it doesn't we have the opportunity to solve it there.

[Bingle]

If they're scummy, fade them.

It was the 'it's pretty clear eliminating Celebloki is the wrong play' line that did it for me.

No, it really isn't. It's not a 'wrong play'. it's a fade on a slot a lot of people scum read. day play over mech.

Counterargument: Bingle exists.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, i don’t like the speed of Wiz wagon either

[Flavor Leaf]

Hm, I appreciate you explaining how he would be solved before LimLo, because that was a question I forgot to ask earlier—didn’t understand that you meant a Roleblocker flipping would help confirm him.

I… am loathe to wait on a possible flip though, because what if we never get that? What if the Roleblocker survives to LimLo, or we just don’t have one at all? Do we assume he’s lying, or do we give him the benefit of the doubt? I would rather just eliminate him now instead of possibly miselimming someone else instead.

I mean... if the slot isn't resolved by massclaim day (traditionally limlo-1) it should resolve itself based on balance and if it doesn't we have the opportunity to solve it there.

If nothing else also needs that.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m also just not a fan of compromise wagons, and this feels like a big ol one

[Flavor Leaf]

And best case scenario, Wiz is faded, is scum, and VCA clears me here anyways. So win win.

[AnimatedWiz]

I would definitely prefer to not be the wagon today for obvious reasons, but I really don’t understand the push for me.

Anyway, I’m not going to just sit around and die.

I’m the

Town Role Cop

, and Hu Tao is a vanilla role. Part of the reason I’m pushing Celebloki is due to doubt about there being two Town investigative roles—does that explain my push on them better?

[Bingle]

I’m also just not a fan of compromise wagons, and this feels like a big ol one

What compromise? We're killing Hu.

[Bingle]

I’m the Town Role Cop, and Hu Tao is a vanilla role. Part of the reason I’m pushing Celebloki is due to doubt about there being two Town investigative roles—does that explain my push on them better?

Not in the slightest considering that they're actually very complimentary roles. If anything, your claim makes me more inclined to believe celeb is town.

Did you perchance read this:

There are precisely 0 worlds in which celeb is a scum neap, this is a simple game. Red herrings and implicative false innos don’t have a space in a simple game, that would inherently raise the complexity of the setup. I’m not particularly sold on this being a true claim, but if you believe the role you should believe the alignment.

[Dunnstral]

Alright... this situation requires some thinking

UNVOTE:

[Dunnstral]

AnimatedWiz, you should be the person who most wants to leave Celebloki alive to check their role.

You say your roles are similar, but how would your role produce a guilty on mafia? Or a clear on town?

[AnimatedWiz]

Did you perchance read this:

There are precisely 0 worlds in which celeb is a scum neap, this is a simple game. Red herrings and implicative false innos don’t have a space in a simple game, that would inherently raise the complexity of the setup. I’m not particularly sold on this being a true claim, but if you believe the role you should believe the alignment.

I did, and I thought it was convincing—so I assumed that it meant Celebloki was lying about being a Neapolitan, not that he was the telling the truth about it.

[Dunnstral]

You have an ability that allows you to determine whether they are lying or telling the truth.

[Bingle]

What's to think? AniWiz just claimed a role that can get a functional inno on a role that can get an actual inno on FL. If we leave all three alive into the night, we get a buttload of info from who mafia kills, whether anyone gets blocked, and the actual elimination from today.

Meanwhile, none of Hu Tao's scumpoints have disappeared and she's apparently vanilla checked, which is a verification point towards Wiz's role at the very least, even if Hu is somehow town here.

2+2 isn't particularly hard math.

[AnimatedWiz]

AnimatedWiz, you should be the person who most wants to leave Celebloki alive to check their role.

You say your roles are similar, but how would your role produce a guilty on mafia? Or a clear on town?

I don’t want to waste my night action on someone I feel is guilty—I want to get info on the people I see staying to LimLo, to give town the most information possible at the end.

If I investigate someone and receive a role only town could have, or vice versa, that’s a clear/guilty. Plus, it also can help catch a lie from someone during a massclaim—if someone lies about being a Vigilante and then isn’t for example, it’s a soft guilty in my opinion.

[Dunnstral]

What is a role that only town could have?

[Bingle]

Innocent Child

[AnimatedWiz]

What is a role that only town could have?

Cop, Friendly Neighbor, Mason, and Vigilante. Juggernaut’s the only role in this format that is Mafia-only.

[AnimatedWiz]

Notably, there is technically a possibility of a Scum Neapolitan—I don’t think it’s likely, but it does kind of confirm someone as a town PR if they don’t receive a Vanilla Townie result on someone. Bit wonky, though.

[Dunnstral]

But you said you don't believe there can be 2 investigative roles in 1335, so you're not expecting a cop.

Friendly neighbor and Mason don't need a rolecop to check them to be confirmed town. Neither does Innocent Child.

Vigilante is obvious because an extra person dies - again, doesn't need to be checked.

[Dunnstral]

Notably, there is technically a possibility of a Scum Neapolitan—I don’t think it’s likely, but it does kind of confirm someone as a town PR if they don’t receive a Vanilla Townie result on someone. Bit wonky, though.

I think that Bingle is saying that if you are a town rolecop, this kind of setup "gotcha" is unlikely to be used in a simple game. Specifically Celebloki being a mafia-aligned Neapolitan when there are simpler roles, such as Vanilla Cop, that mafia could have.