open 896: describing conker (game over)

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: Elements

why didn't you put me in the small hood with you

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: Dann

Policy vote for me

May I ask why?

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: Elements

why didn't you put me in the small hood with you

We both know there is nothing thay could've prevented me putting us in the small hood together unless we were both red team so you should be townreading me for it

I don't see why it's a guarantee that you neighbourize me if evil? I've had a very good track record of being read well early on in my summer on ms playing with you so like, it's not out of the realm of possibility you as scum just avoid that day 2 1v1 that would prolly happen.

On the other hand, you're a being of chaos and you would've loved that so sure you can be town for now.

UNVOTE: Elements
VOTE: Aristeia

[OopsieDaisy]

Before anyone says anything I'm not planning on trying to push anyone to e-1 early this game

Who are you and what did you do with El?

[OopsieDaisy]

Yea I like Meuh right now

[OopsieDaisy]

ego

Dann have you seen the new doccy who specials btw?

Wanna ask you now before the game becomes too involved lol

[OopsieDaisy]

hi

VOTE: oopsiedaisy

UNVOTE: Artistea
VOTE: Fire

OMGUS gaming

[OopsieDaisy]

ego

Dann have you seen the new doccy who specials btw?

Wanna ask you now before the game becomes too involved lol

i have seen 2 out of 3

They are ok

VOTE: oopsie

I rate em all tbf, but 3rd one might be the best of em all imo so I recommend it

[OopsieDaisy]

So do people have a preference in terms of if we should vote in the big or the small neighbourhood today?

[OopsieDaisy]

I know Meuh thinks we shouldn't rly consider it all that much but it might be good for actually formualting a plan of some sort?

[OopsieDaisy]

Tbf I just wanna talk about something that people are gonna have stances on and that seems like the biggest elephant in the room

[OopsieDaisy]

i guess i don't really have strong opinions about it but my vibe is unironically that dann scum arranges things differently

and on the other side i could pretty easily imagine ari scum setting things up this way

any reasons outside of vibes for these or nah?

i've only played with el and dann here and with dann it was only one day phase lol, so I can't rly comment much on the arrangements bar El stuff (and I've said my piece there already)

[OopsieDaisy]

i guess my thought process with dann went like:

i see the groups -> my eye is immediately drawn to dann as someone who like stands out as someone i want to focus on and sort in our group -> i think dann would probably want to avoid this singular focus bc he is dann the deepwolf -> dann probably doesn't make that choice as scum

would it not make sense for the deepwolf player to sit in the bigger group? surely you stick out more in the group with less people to sort right?

[OopsieDaisy]

oohhhhh or are you saying he would want to avoid being focused by specifically you and by placing himself in your neighbourhood he's opening himself up to focus?

[OopsieDaisy]

UNVOTE: Fire
VOTE: Ari

[OopsieDaisy]

Posts like 83 & 91 have rubbed me the wrong way. They're making me feel like Ari is trying to push focus away from herself/her hood.

[OopsieDaisy]

I watched The Giggle last night and it was fine. I liked it better than The Star Beast but less than Wild Blue Yonder. I think in general the pacing for all of the specials felt a bit... overstuffed? Which maybe is just a consequence of there only being 3 specials that are also wildly ambitious. Overall, it's been a bit campier than I like my Who, but a lot of the character work has been spot on. NPH as the Toymaker was great. I have mixed feelings about the ending in general. I worry that the conceit of the ending overshadows Ncuti Gatwa in some ways and also plays into the series' long running flaw of not really being able to let characters go - but the character work and ideas behind it are technically fine I suppose. Maybe, I'm just older and grumpier now than when I first started watching Doctor Who - or maybe my tastes have changed. I did really like Wild Blue Yonder though.

Yea WBY definited benefitted from being a more standalone adventure and is 100% the best in isolation. I liked how the themes of identity from TSB and regret/trauma from WBY culminated in The Giggle and hard agree on NPH he killedddd it. The ending feels like a way of being able to put some of these themes to rest to leave room for new stuff to explore, and I do like it *if* it's interpreted that way. In terms of other ways being talked about, yea they undermine so much about the series, and so hopefully the details are left mostly vague and we're not gonna get constant fanservice in leiu of actual well-written stories.

I'm sorta in a state of post-chibnall euphoria where everything I'm getting that isn't god awful *feels* that much more amazing. I am looking forward to what seems to be a much campier, letting-its-hair-down approach to Doccy Who, but I'm a fruity zoomer so like it's no surprise I'm gonna like it I'm basically the target audience lmao. Will be interesting to see if my opinions of these specials change after Ncuti's run has properly got going.

[OopsieDaisy]

my instinct is that ydrasse wants to not be perceived

that usually means we should start perceiving her right?

[OopsieDaisy]

i think being scum in the small hood is much harder than being scum in the large hood

depends on the skillset but i'd mostly agree. a player who's more indexed to doing well in like, day 1/2 rather than later game stuff would wanna be scum in the smaller hood. all they'd have to do is get one of the others executed and then die and they've basically done their job as long as there aren't lingering associatives. obvs if there are players that aren't reliable at vibe-reading well early then that boinks them and they'd wanna be in the big hood but i think the answer is a bit more subjective yea

[OopsieDaisy]

i can see what you mean with regards to ydrasse specifically tho, if your meta read is to be relied on

[OopsieDaisy]

the line of logic from dann and daisy here is also what i was thinking for ari over ydra being more likely to opt into small hood

idk elements' scum style

el's early game play typically ends with them hovering as neutral or scummy to those unfamiliar with their playstyle, so initially the line of logic leads to it being questionable for el to opt into this, however scum!el themselves is very good at messing around with associatives and if the goal is to tank the death without outing the other scum el is a strong sacrificial lamb.

and again el is a fan of fun/chaos a lot of the time so a lot of the "optimal play" logic can go flying out the window trying to read em.

[OopsieDaisy]

should mention that neutral/scummy early game is the case as either alignment, and people who know their meta are a lot less likely to just eject the slot day 1.

[OopsieDaisy]

my most recent scumgame with el involved them distancing rly well from me and my reads leading straight to el as my partner, so that's where i'm getting the associatives thing from.

[OopsieDaisy]

This is why I'd put myself in a hood with Daisy

Yea this as an expectation exists it's just coated in WIFOM so like, it doesn't rly help us all that much. Even if I think you're fine right now.

[OopsieDaisy]

that's so funny lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

UNVOTE:
ima townbin jupiter for now

agree

[OopsieDaisy]

btw oopsiedaisy i haven't read through town but your avtar is a bellossom and i've been a fan of pokemon for YEARS. i watched the show as a child (all seasons), collected cards but i didn't really properly get into it until 2021. i just wanted to say it gave me a kick of nolstalgia

glad you like

[OopsieDaisy]

oo what's the motivation behind these votes?

[OopsieDaisy]

i'm currently thinking fire/ari

[OopsieDaisy]

the fire bit im a bit iffy on but i think there's like a 50/50 chance ari flips scum

[OopsieDaisy]

everyone starts at 1/3 odds in the small hood.

i've explained how i've got a lot of conflicting thoughts on the el slot, but there's nothing too concerning there so el stays at 1/3

sheeping ydrasse meta analysis for now cause i don't have knowledge on the slot, seems like an unlikely player to opt into the small hood. 1/6.

that leaves ari who hasn't rly townpinged me with anything they've done whatsoever and as i've talked about earlier there's an air of self-protection around the slot that feels scummy. 1/2 is what's left.

[OopsieDaisy]

oo what's the motivation behind these votes?

his iso is pretty much empty of any scumhunting and there was no pressure there

valid, also lmao i like this post that's funny considering what i've just posted

[OopsieDaisy]

elements who do you think is scum in the big hood?

Not Daisy or Meuh

I thought Fire was in your list. Where did they go?

[OopsieDaisy]

elements who do you think is scum in the big hood?

Not Daisy or Meuh

I thought Fire was in your list. Where did they go?

Evaporated after the terrible push on me

real

[OopsieDaisy]

is fire's terrible push on elements in the room with us now?

the extra naked vote on top of two others is super in character for elements, there's nothing scummy about it at all imo.

[OopsieDaisy]

el is known for running up any wagon they see, they even put a disclaimer saying they wanted to avoid doing it to cause e-1's this game here:

Before anyone says anything I'm not planning on trying to push anyone to e-1 early this game

[OopsieDaisy]

el is known for running up any wagon they see, they even put a disclaimer saying they wanted to avoid doing it to cause e-1's this game here:

Before anyone says anything I'm not planning on trying to push anyone to e-1 early this game

question, if elements is wolf and you’re town do you think that elements is likely to play around the meta knowledge you have of them?

of course, el loves playing around with meta. but also people push el in most games based on reasons that are just NAI for em. my current thought process with reading the slot is seeing how others interact with em, and right now gamestate tells me that people wanna push em rather than people wanna ignore em. former usually indicates townie el being targeted for weird play.

obvs there are nuances here, smaller game + being in the small hood means el is instantly in the spotlight so idk how much this kind of read holds up in this setup? but i know right now el is playing like el usually does. nothing has pinged me as particularly scummy so i'm chilling with the read.

[OopsieDaisy]

el is known for running up any wagon they see, they even put a disclaimer saying they wanted to avoid doing it to cause e-1's this game here:

Before anyone says anything I'm not planning on trying to push anyone to e-1 early this game

my point was that it felt more like "i have to do this in order to look town" rather than something they actually wanted to do

that's fair. i'm just desensitised to el wagon run-ups so it doesn't feel in any way out of place for el to be making that vote.

[OopsieDaisy]

el is known for running up any wagon they see, they even put a disclaimer saying they wanted to avoid doing it to cause e-1's this game here:

Before anyone says anything I'm not planning on trying to push anyone to e-1 early this game

question, if elements is wolf and you’re town do you think that elements is likely to play around the meta knowledge you have of them?

of course, el loves playing around with meta. but also people push el in most games based on reasons that are just NAI for em. my current thought process with reading the slot is seeing how others interact with em, and right now gamestate tells me that people wanna push em rather than people wanna ignore em. former usually indicates townie el being targeted for weird play.

obvs there are nuances here, smaller game + being in the small hood means el is instantly in the spotlight so idk how much this kind of read holds up in this setup? but i know right now el is playing like el usually does. nothing has pinged me as particularly scummy so i'm chilling with the read.

is elements getting ignored of any significance in other situations?

yea i think so. el's play does merit responses. they hop on a lot of wagons and are generally a big prescence in the games they're in, so players typically read into those moves. in this game we've already seen how one move has merited a chain of reads to go off. in games where el is scum their play just isn't the topic of conversation in the group as much, because partners don't want the focus to be on their scumbuddy cause that means they then have to make stances on el and thus associatives are born.

[OopsieDaisy]

i have fallen into the trap before of just brainlessly pushing a town el because the group at large don't rly care for the slot, so it's not a perfect read by any means, but it's where my head is at w/ el

[OopsieDaisy]

@Afrayed Knott How do you usually go about finding reads in mafia games?

[OopsieDaisy]

UNVOTE: Ari

[OopsieDaisy]

Posts like 83 & 91 have rubbed me the wrong way. They're making me feel like Ari is trying to push focus away from herself/her hood.

what do you think town!me would be doing differently?

Dang just noticed I missed this thanks to Ari's post this page.

It's difficult because what I read in 83 and 91 was scumhunting but scumhunting with an ulterior motive behind the posts. 83 & 91 were on the surface just posts made to keep a scumhunt focused on a specific set of players, allowing it to be easier for people to sort. Issue is I read them and also saw scum motivation in pushing away from the idea of limming in your hood, keeping yourself safe and having a much easier time getting a mislim off in the bigger pool of players.


For what it's worth your posts this page have eased my concerns somewhat. Wasn't an initial fan of the Afrayed push but post 253 clearly outlines a thought process that is objectively pro!town, poking/prodding more passive players to participate in the conversation and provide reads. Not impossible to come from mafia but good for game health as a whole.

[OopsieDaisy]

In terms of big hood:
Meuh - Read very well to me at the start of the game. Had some nuanced insights into setup stuff that I appreciated.
Dann - Played one game with before but am getting great vibes from the slot again, feels easy to bounce off of his thought processes. Could be the mythical "Dann deepwolf" but for now I'm considering him town
Jupiter - Response to sudden vote out came off very uninformed about the game so my gut read is town. Obvs this isn't perfect but with nothing else from the slot it's all I've got to go off of right now. Hopefully they come in soon with some big insights.
Afrayed - I think pressure here has done it's job. I don't think Afrayed will be able to conjure up any more reads thanks to the votes on em.

That leaves Fire.

VOTE: Fire

[OopsieDaisy]

and im still a little skeptical of oopsie but eh

Can I ask why?

[OopsieDaisy]

Black's return is ok. Nothing stuck out too much to me, bar the fact that the last person who called me LAMIST was scum and I let em have that read cause it makes sense w/ my playstyle. Don't think that means much tho, I am just a very LAMIST-y player fr.

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: Meuh

[OopsieDaisy]

If people want me to explain my read on El from an in-game context, I struggle to see why they choose to be in the small hood based on the fact that they're a player who doesn't get consistent early townreads in games (not even from me).

Like if the expectation is that the small hood gets the focus, and you know that you're a player who is often hovering in danger of mislims Day 1, why would that be a good idea? The only answer I find is the WIFOM angle.

[OopsieDaisy]

If people want me to explain my read on El from an in-game context, I struggle to see why they choose to be in the small hood based on the fact that they're a player who doesn't get consistent early townreads in games (not even from me).

Like if the expectation is that the small hood gets the focus, and you know that you're a player who is often hovering in danger of mislims Day 1, why would that be a good idea? The only answer I find is the WIFOM angle.

I suppose there's a world where El is like, the sacrificial lamb for a nuts good player to be put in the better position. I can see a world where El and another player were discussing where to go and couldn't agree so El just took the L and small hooded it

[OopsieDaisy]

If people want me to explain my read on El from an in-game context, I struggle to see why they choose to be in the small hood based on the fact that they're a player who doesn't get consistent early townreads in games (not even from me).

Like if the expectation is that the small hood gets the focus, and you know that you're a player who is often hovering in danger of mislims Day 1, why would that be a good idea? The only answer I find is the WIFOM angle.

this is interesting because - is that actually the expectation of the small hood? i feel like this setup's been ran enough that people who are familiar with it know that you can autowin on D1 which is an alluring choice.

afaik el's played this setup irl with me a lot and there the expectation is that the small hood is murdered every time. i only realised that going for the other hood might be good after this game started.

[OopsieDaisy]

If people want me to explain my read on El from an in-game context, I struggle to see why they choose to be in the small hood based on the fact that they're a player who doesn't get consistent early townreads in games (not even from me).

Like if the expectation is that the small hood gets the focus, and you know that you're a player who is often hovering in danger of mislims Day 1, why would that be a good idea? The only answer I find is the WIFOM angle.

If Elements is scum then wouldn't it make more sense to go into the small hood from this perspective? If they get faded in the big hood then it's just gg

I think scum!Elements would put herself into the small hood and try to keep the attention on the big hood just like she's been doing

I think 355 covers this? I came into this game with the expectation that the small hood is the early lim zone so that's where someone who is good at avoiding early lims would go in my mind. Obvs if you get faded D1 as scum in the big hood it is GG but it's so much harder to get faded in a 1/6 than it is in a 1/3 right? The probability of the El misfade is a lot smaller if she would be in the big group imo.

[OopsieDaisy]

If people want me to explain my read on El from an in-game context, I struggle to see why they choose to be in the small hood based on the fact that they're a player who doesn't get consistent early townreads in games (not even from me).

Like if the expectation is that the small hood gets the focus, and you know that you're a player who is often hovering in danger of mislims Day 1, why would that be a good idea? The only answer I find is the WIFOM angle.

this is interesting because - is that actually the expectation of the small hood? i feel like this setup's been ran enough that people who are familiar with it know that you can autowin on D1 which is an alluring choice.

afaik el's played this setup irl with me a lot and there the expectation is that the small hood is murdered every time. i only realised that going for the other hood might be good after this game started.

I do not remember playing this setup ever

fr? that's crazy we've played it a good number of times at mafia. guess you weren't there then lol, my point dissipates

[OopsieDaisy]

we had this discussion earlier and i did look at the other runs of this. it's mostly been small hood lim first (4 to 2) but the big hood lims have been more successful

yea like my logic playing this setup prior to this forum game has always been to just vibe check the 3 small hood players and get the player who's vibes are the worst voted out. guarantees a final 3 even in the worst case scenario.

issue is even if you get lucky and bink the right person day 1, you then have only that day of associations to go off of. doesn't mean as much irl cause it's not like everyone's comments/votes are listed it's a lot more about fast-paced social reads, but i realise now on forum that it's not like we're in a race against time where we just wanna guarantee the most days, we just need to make each day as valuable as possible for info alongside hopefully getting mafia out.

[OopsieDaisy]

If people want me to explain my read on El from an in-game context, I struggle to see why they choose to be in the small hood based on the fact that they're a player who doesn't get consistent early townreads in games (not even from me).

Like if the expectation is that the small hood gets the focus, and you know that you're a player who is often hovering in danger of mislims Day 1, why would that be a good idea? The only answer I find is the WIFOM angle.

this is interesting because - is that actually the expectation of the small hood? i feel like this setup's been ran enough that people who are familiar with it know that you can autowin on D1 which is an alluring choice.

afaik el's played this setup irl with me a lot and there the expectation is that the small hood is murdered every time. i only realised that going for the other hood might be good after this game started.

I do not remember playing this setup ever

fr? that's crazy we've played it a good number of times at mafia. guess you weren't there then lol, my point dissipates

what do you make of the fact I've said the opposite of what you've said about me picking hoods?

it's cringe but we move. weakens the point cause if you're applying the opposite logic you're exactly where you wanna be lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

LAMIST

please what is this, so much to learn

LAMIST stands for "Look at me, I'm so town!" and it describes a playstyle that players can see as a bit of a scumtell as it revolves around someone acting townie but in a performative way where their actions seem motivated by a want to look good rather than actually wanting to play a townie game.

Gets thrown at me a lot cause I am a player that wants to look good. My logic is that if I'm townread it puts me in a better position to control the game and therefore puts scum in a worse position to do so, alongside the fact that if I'm townread scum are just more likely to go down. Plus tbf I just play my best mafia in comfortable spots, under pressure sometimes I can just crack as town which is cringe but wcyd. Obvs the difference between LAMIST as a scumtell and LAMIST with me is that I play in a LAMIST way regardless of alignment, whereas for other players being LAMIST about things can be a genuine tell.

[OopsieDaisy]

I forgot to add, I don't feel the Meuh wagon at all. but again I could be bias

What's the reasoning behind the feeling?

My read on Meuh slipped when I realised my reason for townreading em was flawed. She originally came into the hood with a more nuanced take on how the hoods should operate and I was like "woah she knows what she's on about I like her". This isn't a good reason to townread someone tho, having that pre-knowledge if anything is very slightly mafia-indicative cause they're the ones who would've been chatting in their pt about the setup and their positioning prior to the start of the game.

Plus my vote was on Fire but 307 was imo a great post and outlined a thought process I'm reading as genuine. Doesn't feel like something Fire just pulled out of their ass to hastily justify shakiness on me, it feels like this is something that's been playing on Fire's mind for a good chunk of this game.

[OopsieDaisy]

everyone starts at 1/3 odds in the small hood.

i've explained how i've got a lot of conflicting thoughts on the el slot, but there's nothing too concerning there so el stays at 1/3

sheeping ydrasse meta analysis for now cause i don't have knowledge on the slot, seems like an unlikely player to opt into the small hood. 1/6.

that leaves ari who hasn't rly townpinged me with anything they've done whatsoever and as i've talked about earlier there's an air of self-protection around the slot that feels scummy. 1/2 is what's left.

How have your small hood reads changed since this post?

Idk it's a bit of a mess. I still wanna sheep Ydra meta stuff and on the surface I like what she's posting, but Black sorta threw that into question in her catch-up. Ari did a nice push on Afrayed I liked but since then hasn't done all that much (from what I remember of the game at least). I'm a bit stuck on how to read you too cause it seems my logic on your slot is a bit flawed based on how you're presenting your logic with the hoods.

tl:dr - the small hood isn't shaping up to be an easy boink out and that's cringe

[OopsieDaisy]

Ari did a nice push on Afrayed I liked

Is there anything in Ari's push you think couldn't be made by competent red team?

Not really, doesn't change the fact I liked it tho. Even if Ari is red it was a good move for the town as a whole.

[OopsieDaisy]

I feel like I'm being very naysayery about most expressed tonreads this game
But not much has happened yet so :shrug:

Maybe I'm too focused on could rather than would

Yea my recent go-to motto I yoinked off of someone's mafia guide who I can't remember the name of is "Town rely on probability, Mafia rely on possibility". You want to be focused on the probable worlds as a townie, not the crazy paranoia tunnels that are technically a possibility but ultimately not a hugely probable world in the game.

[OopsieDaisy]

Not saying you're doing that but it's marked a shift in how I read people. Ari could be red and have made that push for townpoints, or she's just town and made a good push. I think the latter is more likely than the former so boom.

[OopsieDaisy]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... babilities yahaha i found the article! credit to mastina

[OopsieDaisy]

I forgot to add, I don't feel the Meuh wagon at all. but again I could be bias

My read on Meuh slipped when I realised my reason for townreading em was flawed. She originally came into the hood with a more nuanced take on how the hoods should operate and I was like "woah she knows what she's on about I like her". This isn't a good reason to townread someone tho, having that pre-knowledge if anything is very slightly mafia-indicative cause they're the ones who would've been chatting in their pt about the setup and their positioning prior to the start of the game.

My take on the hoods was like, extremely surface level and my analysis I had after thinking about it for like 5 minutes, so this idea is pretty ???
Can't say I adored the post you made right before mine there, not taking a stance (like not even voicing a lean) in whether you want to lim in the big or small hood feels overly passive

Keep in mind my POV on hoods prior to this game from my irl group was "pop in the small hood every time frfr". Compared to that your take was nuanced.

[OopsieDaisy]

Fire did say he was bored in the hood 10 minutes before I started posting and then didn't show up, that deserves a vote at least

Yea I'm interested to hear if he has any thoughts on your return considering how much he and Dann were anticipating it.

[OopsieDaisy]

For the sake of taking a stance, your return initially threw me off a bit with the "BAD!!!!!" posting accusations. It read to me as annoyance that you were being pushed and wanted to lash out moreso than good thought-out posting. I think you've got a better understanding as to why my hood opinions are a bit lacking now (not that the evidence for these things was hidden at all)?

I'ma be real I don't buy into the Ydrasse push right now either. A lot of what I read from your end felt more like paranoia than a reasoned scumread.

Nothing said so far makes me think switching my vote is the play. Tho Fire bar the one post I really liked is still not super in my town books so I'm not against the push happening right now from you and Ari either.

[OopsieDaisy]

For the sake of taking a stance, your return initially threw me off a bit with the "BAD!!!!!" posting accusations. It read to me as annoyance that you were being pushed and wanted to lash out moreso than good thought-out posting.

do you think this is more likely to come from scum?

Depends on the player and their meta, and I don't know Meuh's. In general I'd say it's slightly scummy but I acknowledge a lot of that comes from a personal preference towards good faith interactions and not anything super backed by mafia theory.

[OopsieDaisy]

also just as an fyi gamers i'm gonna be round a friend's house tomorrow so i'll have limited time to respond to stuff and the like

[OopsieDaisy]

LAMIST

please what is this, so much to learn

LAMIST stands for "Look at me, I'm so town!" and it describes a playstyle that players can see as a bit of a scumtell as it revolves around someone acting townie but in a performative way where their actions seem motivated by a want to look good rather than actually wanting to play a townie game.

Gets thrown at me a lot cause I am a player that wants to look good. My logic is that if I'm townread it puts me in a better position to control the game and therefore puts scum in a worse position to do so, alongside the fact that if I'm townread scum are just more likely to go down. Plus tbf I just play my best mafia in comfortable spots, under pressure sometimes I can just crack as town which is cringe but wcyd. Obvs the difference between LAMIST as a scumtell and LAMIST with me is that I play in a LAMIST way regardless of alignment, whereas for other players being LAMIST about things can be a genuine tell.

thanks, so it would be true to say then that even when scum you want to look good, to look town?

Yeehaw

[OopsieDaisy]

All the things that are beneficial to me as town when I'm read well are just as beneficial to me when I'm scum. Having control, pushing townies into the POE instead of me, I'm comfy.

[OopsieDaisy]

daisy did you have any thoughts on 474? do you disagree?

I think there are good points but mafia also need to get players pushed out, playing in survival mode is only going to get you so far so mafia can't just rely on having good faith interactions with townies for the win. It is necessary for their win con to engage in bad faith. The incentive of good faith interactions is getting townread but the downside is that you wouldn't be helping your team, you'd just be playing the game as a survivor, so I don't think bad faith interactions = more likely town.

Also just as a personal thing, I'm not interested in incentivising lashing out and annoyance. So it's like, I'm not gonna consider it as a townie thing. It probably is just NAI and my biases are getting in the way, but when I townread Black & Dann and townlean Afrayed that leaves two candidates in the hood as possible scum to me and you've already got enough votes, NAI things aren't enough.

I do need to sort the small hood out but I can do that when I have time lol, my poor friend's been sat here watching me type this up so I should get back to hanging out.

[OopsieDaisy]

my point isn't that meuh's actions are themselves scummy, i think they are mostly NAI to me. i just townread around her in the hood so POE happens.

[OopsieDaisy]

I'ma be real I don't buy into the Ydrasse push right now either. A lot of what I read from your end felt more like paranoia than a reasoned scumread.

this too is like, not a reason to scumread someone. saying it "felt like paranoia" when paranoia is only something that town can experience doesn't really explain why you're suspicious of it

what makes you think this is more likely to come from scum?

this was a point made to explain why i don't buy into the ydrasse push, not to justify a scumread.

[OopsieDaisy]

my point is more that i don't see the towniness in meuh the same way i see it in dann, black & afrayed's play. which sure in essence makes the poe between you and meuh and therefore a scumread but the scumread comes from the play of others not the play of meuh in particular.

[OopsieDaisy]

UNVOTE: Meuh

2/3 of the small hood being super chill with this push (the two that I thought were a lot more likely with Meuh) is ringing alarm bells even if I do absolutely see what Black is saying.

Meuh going for Ydra in the way she did doesn't make sense as scum and scum imo, even if there was an absence of a vote.

That leaves Ele or Ari but the above two messages don't seem very partnered, keeping in mind hitting the mafia in the big hood is gg so bussing is cringe in this format.

[OopsieDaisy]

Meuh going for Ydra in the way she did doesn't make sense as scum and scum imo, even if there was an absence of a vote.

Can you elaborate on this?

I just don't see why Meuh would make a paranoid half-push there if scum with Ydra. When Ydra flips red and Meuh has clearly tried to create justification for a push on Ydra but didn't follow through, isn't that just gonna be seen as super scummy on another look through of Day 1?

I guess it could be a distancing tactic but it kinda loses any potency on a Ydra flip so I don't think it's a good play if they are both evil.

[OopsieDaisy]

@Ari were you actually gonna vote there or was it just a reaction test?

[OopsieDaisy]

Meuh's probably now my biggest town read based on associatives. I don't really see any convincing worlds where she's paired with anyone from the small hood and that just makes her town.

Ari/Ele are super sus imo for the bloodthirstyness. I think it's a perfectly legitimate strat for the small hood mafia to just bink in the hammer on Meuh there, and then N2 & N3 kill off their neighbours in the small hood sacrificing themselves and leaving us with a final 5 and little to go off of (hell it was Ele and Ari both wanting it so they could just keep the 50/50 there anyways and then it's an even messier situation for town).

POE in the big hood leaves Fire and I don't especially like their push on me. I said I was gonna be busy and then the questions came in and I answered them in a way where I was hoping to sorta cut off the questioning and yea. On the one hand prolly shouldn't have been staring at the game and playing whilst round a friend's but on the other I'm glad I was there to unvote before the possible hammer came through.

I don't really see the scum motivation to unvote there. I had the perfect excuse of being round a friend's as to why I would be AFK, and whilst I was on the Meuh wagon I do feel I explained why I was there pretty well even if it rubbed Fire the wrong way. The next couple days would be nowhere near lights out for me and a prolonged Day 1 is just bad for mafia cause more info will be swirling about + there's a world where Fire's push gains momentum today and I'm toast (keep in mind if I'm mafia and I die today it would be gg).

[OopsieDaisy]

I'm enjoying all this talk about if I wanted Ari to hammer
I though Ydra was voting Meuh before the unvote so Meuh was at e-2 again

Oh wait fr?

[OopsieDaisy]

That kinda fucks all my points if true LMAO

[OopsieDaisy]

All good Ydra was voting Fire prior to the unvote thank god I don't have to reevaluate everything again on like 2 hours of sleep zzz

[OopsieDaisy]

All good Ydra was voting Fire prior to the unvote thank god I don't have to reevaluate everything again on like 2 hours of sleep zzz

Except the me/meuh world

El you can lie about not knowing it would hammer lol, you saying that doesn't change anything

[OopsieDaisy]

I think I need to reevaluate my reads in the big hood cause a POE read of 1 on the one person pushing me feels way too easy. Gonna wait for Afrayed and Dann's responses to the current game state then go from there.

For now, VOTE: Elements

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: Ari

Why Ari over Elements for the vote?

[OopsieDaisy]

Wait I'm dumb I can't read ignore me lol

[OopsieDaisy]

 I said I was gonna be busy and then the questions came in and I answered them in a way where I was hoping to sorta cut off the questioning and yea. On the one hand prolly shouldn't have been staring at the game and playing whilst round a friend's but on the other I'm glad I was there to unvote before the possible hammer came through.

the play that i took issue with was prior to the day where you said you would be busy so idk why you keep bringing that up. your answers to my questions that day were fine

idk i think i'm just misunderstanding the push.

the way i see it is like, i can understand how you could come to the conclusion that me just sitting on a fire and meuh poe and not doing a whole lot with it would be passive. however i already had started solving that prior to the meuh stuff (i.e. your initial big post on me was something I liked and made me want to move my vote off of you) and you can see how that meuh read has evolved in the face of new contexts.

i've also just been a proactive player this game imo. i tried to make a push on ari that didn't happen, i spearheaded the initial wagon onto you, i made the big unvote on meuh. i've clearly had an impact and have been trying to scumhunt. i've just also been using the "establish townreads then work from a POE off of those" strat that i think is golden in a set-up where the POE's for scum are already a lot smaller than usual. that's still scumhunting, and i don't know why your approach has been to focus on specifically a couple of reads based on that method rather than taking into account my game as a whole.

[OopsieDaisy]

Ok gamers I'm just stuck right now. Essentially I wanted to look at other people in the big hood who hadn't been posting much like Afrayed and Dann but I've come to the realisation I can't rly do that without solving Fire first. He's the one person left in the POE so in order to break past that I need to justify to my head why I can let myself push past that.

The issue is I don't know how to solve Fire because he's mostly just been pushing me in recent pages and I don't know how to separate my bias from just objectively analysing the push. It's completely broke my brain lol. Like I think the push is just a bit shit and uses one mid read of mine to justify continuing to sit on me for the entire game, but it doesn't look like anyone in the game actually agrees with me on this so is it just bias?


I've wanted to maybe look at associatives in the small hood but with El there's been little interaction (El was on the push onto Fire but El's been on p much every push this game lmao) and Ari's 575 feels like way too easy of a fold on what is a good point towards me being town so I think both of the sussy small hood gamers are likely to be with a scum!Fire in a scum!Fire world, tho based on gamestate I prefer my vote being on El right now.

I'll be honest Dann and Ari just seem like they're talking past each other based on a skim, but I've not had the energy to properly analyse any recent posting so take that with a grain of salt.

[OopsieDaisy]

in a scum!Fire world, tho based on gamestate I prefer my vote being on El right now.

In a red!fire world you'd rather vote me than just win?

I don't have confidence in my read, and with that in mind I would rather take a chance on the 50/50 between you & Ari I'm feeling because voting in the small hood and the flip being town is way less punishing than voting in the big hood and the flip being town.

[OopsieDaisy]

e-1 btw gamers

[OopsieDaisy]

I'm feeling because voting in the small hood and the flip being town is way less punishing than voting in the big hood and the flip being town.

Why do you say this?

Because I don't have that much confidence in my reads right now so I wanna plan for worst-case scenario rather than binking it into the big hood based on a read that very easily could just be me being biased cause I know I'm town and someone's pushing me for reasons that I don't feel add up.

[OopsieDaisy]

Also remember when Fire said that the chance of me getting ran up today was small and so my unvote made sense as mafia because of that.

lmao.

[OopsieDaisy]

I'm feeling because voting in the small hood and the flip being town is way less punishing than voting in the big hood and the flip being town.

Why do you say this?

Because I don't have that much confidence in my reads right now so I wanna plan for worst-case scenario rather than binking it into the big hood based on a read that very easily could just be me being biased cause I know I'm town and someone's pushing me for reasons that I don't feel add up.

so you think voting in the small hood is mechanically better because you're not sure on your reads?

yea. lemme try and explain.

big hood: 1/6 chance win the game, 5/6 chance you don't and you're hoping the person you're voting out has good associatives from the small hood to read off of so the flip is useful for town. i don't think fire's interactions with the small hood members tell us all that much about them so if fire is town the flip is rubbish.

small hood: 1/3 chance get a mafia out, 2/3 chance you don't. same thing about associatives exist BUT you then get a 50/50 between two players for a mafia and p much a guaranteed path to a final 3 still if we wanna take it.

i think the risk is too high voting in the big hood considering i've had reasons to townread everyone bar fire and whilst i don't like fire's push at all, the small hood associatives don't rly exist. hence, yea i'd rather vote in the small hood.

[OopsieDaisy]

I dispise this

big hood: 1/6 chance win the game, 5/6 chance you don't and you're hoping the person you're voting out has good associatives from the small hood to read off of so the flip is useful for town. i don't think fire's interactions with the small hood members tell us all that much about them so if fire is town the flip is rubbish.

There's no hoping someone has good assosiatives when you flip them. If you consider a town flip you can see how good the associatives are before the flip. If fire is town you can see who voted and why as with any flip.

small hood: 1/3 chance get a mafia out, 2/3 chance you don't. same thing about associatives exist BUT you then get a 50/50 between two players for a mafia and p much a guaranteed path to a final 3 still if we wanna take it.

The small hood is always a final 3, the longer all its members stay alive the easier it should be to solve. Limming in the small hood day 1 is a waste of a lim imo.
If you take the path of just voting out small hood members you end up in a final 3 the red team have crafted with night kills to give them the best chance of winning. The moment we start killing in the big hood they lose agency over

i think the risk is too high voting in the big hood considering i've had reasons to townread everyone bar fire and whilst i don't like fire's push at all, the small hood associatives don't rly exist. hence, yea i'd rather vote in the small hood.

What is this risk you keep talking about?
That we flip a town day 1? That is always the most likely outcome.

Okie lets answer this:

1) El you can read. "i don't think fire's interactions with the small hood members tell us all that much about them so if fire is town the flip is rubbish". I can see Fire's associatives aren't useful pre-flip, hence why I'm not pushing for the lim.

2) That path to a red-decided final 3 only exists if town misvotes in the small hood twice. Even if that happens, you can analyse the previous days to see who was happy to let those misvotes happen. Town have a lot of good stuff to work with there and that's after two misvotes.

3) See numby 1. The risk is we flip a town day 1 with useless associatives. A Fire flip tells us nothing about the players in the small hood.

[OopsieDaisy]

Yea but I don't wanna flip anyone other than Fire in the big hood cause right now I just think Fire's the scum in that group.

2 is fair but surely that can be read into too? If someone has managed to position themselves perfectly and then survives the night that raises eyebrows too.

Who do you think has good associatives with the small hood that we should flip El?

[OopsieDaisy]

For someone that doesn't have any red reads in the big hood and is agonising over fire you haven't asked fire a single quesiton have you?

I've been interacting with Fire more than any other player in the game since the push started? I've just been focused on the push rather than trying to get him to commit to reads on small hood players.

[OopsieDaisy]

How does Meuh have differing associatives I don't think she's in a pair with anyone in the small hood?

[OopsieDaisy]

For someone that doesn't have any red reads in the big hood and is agonising over fire you haven't asked fire a single quesiton have you?

I've been interacting with Fire more than any other player in the game since the push started? I've just been focused on the push rather than trying to get him to commit to reads on small hood players.

And has that helped you read the slot?

Obviously not LMAO but that's just shit play not scummy play.

[OopsieDaisy]

For someone that doesn't have any red reads in the big hood and is agonising over fire you haven't asked fire a single quesiton have you?

I've been interacting with Fire more than any other player in the game since the push started? I've just been focused on the push rather than trying to get him to commit to reads on small hood players.

it's also very reactive and not very proactive

Why are you surprised that someone's started pushing me and then I've become focused on that push to the point where I stop doing the proactive things? This happens so often do you not remember Karmadog & I? Or maybe HEM & I?

[OopsieDaisy]

For someone that doesn't have any red reads in the big hood and is agonising over fire you haven't asked fire a single quesiton have you?

I've been interacting with Fire more than any other player in the game since the push started? I've just been focused on the push rather than trying to get him to commit to reads on small hood players.

And has that helped you read the slot?

Obviously not LMAO but that's just shit play not scummy play.

I never said it was scummy play
But if you're so torn about your fire read, why aren't you pursuing avenues to try and fix that?

I was. I thought if I could solve whether the content of the push was any good, then I could use that to solve the slot.

[OopsieDaisy]

But then when displaying those thoughts there are definitely town players disagreeing with me there (that or just mindlessly agreeing with Fire but I'd like to think it's the former).

[OopsieDaisy]

Why don't you think Ydra is red?

I think Meuh is town based on the pairing situation with small hood members. 526 & 533 outline this thought process pretty clearly.

Based on this, the fact you & Ari were both more than happy to get that wagon over the line (or at least, displaying as much at the time. I know you're saying you thought it was at E-2) is scummy af. It would have ended the day early, losing us info and time sending town into a scramble (something I know you as scum see as a viable strat). Ydra could maybe in a small world be red but the way you two acted there makes me think that one of you two is way more likely to be the scum of the three.

[OopsieDaisy]

Why don't you think Ydra is red?

I think Meuh is town based on the pairing situation with small hood members. 526 & 533 outline this thought process pretty clearly.

Based on this, the fact you & Ari were both more than happy to get that wagon over the line (or at least, displaying as much at the time. I know you're saying you thought it was at E-2) is scummy af. It would have ended the day early, losing us info and time sending town into a scramble (something I know you as scum see as a viable strat). Ydra could maybe in a small world be red but the way you two acted there makes me think that one of you two is way more likely to be the scum of the three.

Why do you think Ari would have hammered?
Do you not think it was to see how I would respond?

Annoyingly she didn't respond to my 589 lol, but yea I think she absolutely could have there. From her POV as scum getting that reaction and then getting the flip is huge for progressing the game and giving her slot really strong reasons to scumread people. She can go for you egging her on to do it, she can go for me based on Fire's push at the time.

[OopsieDaisy]

I don't even think it's a bad idea if she goes down instantly afterwards. I accidentally used clocktower notation in 591 but if she hammers a big hood player, kills ydra in the night, makes it a 50/50 between you two and then if she dies you die and it's a final 5 with not that much good info and if you die she lives and scum get to force their preferred final 3.

Same logic applies if you're scum egging on a town!ari to hammer as well. You can use the same gameplan.

[OopsieDaisy]

Reds only kill in the small hood when the small hood red has flipped

Not if that player surviving hurts their chances. Ydra dying forces the 50/50 in that scenario and draws all attention away from the big hood and solving those players.

The plan there also avoids the world where it's final 5 + a confirmed town if scum!Ari/you goes down before the other. I looked up the odds on the EV project wiki post and it's only 50/50 for mafia to win that assuming random voting, so I think they do prolly need to kill Ydra there to avoid a tough world for them.

[OopsieDaisy]

Obvs we're not in a random voting thing so town are more likely to win a final 5 + confirmed town world

[OopsieDaisy]

Like, I hope you can see how hammering or egging on the hammer as the small hood mafia there is actually a pretty good strat that sets the remaining mafia up to be in a guaranteed playable position later into the game.

[OopsieDaisy]

As long as they don't troll by keeping the third town outside of the 50/50 alive.

[OopsieDaisy]

Daisy can you link a scum game of yours

viewtopic.php?t=91293

My one scumgame on the site and it's with El

[OopsieDaisy]

Also if anyone wants to read games of mine they're linked on my wiki page in my sig

[OopsieDaisy]

@Fire Do you have any opinions on the players in the small hood out of interest?

[OopsieDaisy]

I started a new job today so my activity during day time hours is going to plummet. I'll have to do all my catching up at night (central American time)

Hope the new job goes well

[OopsieDaisy]

Yeaa. I was hoping I'd wake up to laods of reactions based on the Ari/Dunn and Me/Elements interactions but it doesn't seem like people have been around or wanna comment.

[OopsieDaisy]

Is there a reason your vote isn't on Ari then, if you think she's probably scum?

[OopsieDaisy]

Ok gamers I'm just stuck right now. Essentially I wanted to look at other people in the big hood who hadn't been posting much like Afrayed and Dann but I've come to the realisation I can't rly do that without solving Fire first. He's the one person left in the POE so in order to break past that I need to justify to my head why I can let myself push past that.

The issue is I don't know how to solve Fire because he's mostly just been pushing me in recent pages and I don't know how to separate my bias from just objectively analysing the push. It's completely broke my brain lol. Like I think the push is just a bit shit and uses one mid read of mine to justify continuing to sit on me for the entire game, but it doesn't look like anyone in the game actually agrees with me on this so is it just bias?

I've wanted to maybe look at associatives in the small hood but with El there's been little interaction (El was on the push onto Fire but El's been on p much every push this game lmao) and Ari's 575 feels like way too easy of a fold on what is a good point towards me being town so I think both of the sussy small hood gamers are likely to be with a scum!Fire in a scum!Fire world, tho based on gamestate I prefer my vote being on El right now.

I'll be honest Dann and Ari just seem like they're talking past each other based on a skim, but I've not had the energy to properly analyse any recent posting so take that with a grain of salt.

this post is so odd to me - time traveler energy feels so removed from everything around it

and solving afrayed knott or dannflor solves fireisredsir i don't really understand why there need be any order whatsoever

solving anyone person in the big hood solves them all

basically what happened was that i was just really distracted by the push. like the scummiest person in the big hood from my POV is pushing me for shit reasons i just like could not look away no matter how hard i tried.

tho i like dann right now a lot. the ari thing could've been opportunistic but the combative approach to gunning for you all of a sudden is so townie. dann is here making things happen and i love that.

in terms of the read on you i don't think i agree but also i have zero knowledge on the black meta so how can I? the thing that pings me on your slot is the double replacement with replacements being typically more scum indicative for a slot, but i don't think that's worth a push whatsoever and nothing you've said has pinged me as scummy so far so it would feel a bit unfair.

i agree we should just take a shot in the small hood, we've not got much time left and i don't really see a big hood member i'd be happy to consolidate on bar maybe fire.

pedit: ok big 1v1 happening but i'm hanging out with the gf now so I'll get to reading it at some point

[OopsieDaisy]

wah

cold feet

you should wear some socks fr

[OopsieDaisy]

i don't think ydra is partnered with meuh

agree, tho my stance on meuh is already p clear

[OopsieDaisy]

i think if people are just stuck hopping from one wagon to the next unsure of who they actually wanna vote for we should just vote in the small hood. i think there's been enough action today that associatives exist for a lot of people between big hood/small hood gamers anyways so i don't think we lose info voting in the small hood.

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: Daisy

love you too <3

[OopsieDaisy]

i think if people are just stuck hopping from one wagon to the next unsure of who they actually wanna vote for we should just vote in the small hood. i think there's been enough action today that associatives exist for a lot of people between big hood/small hood gamers anyways so i don't think we lose info voting in the small hood.

who do you want to lim in the small hood

el or ari. preference for el cause i didn't like their interactions with me but ari's also a very valid flip here. issue i have with ari is it feels like the game itself is gearing up to flip ari so i wanna do something different, but there's info in that flip still so it's not the end of the world.

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: Daisy

love you too <3

Sheep me then <3

No I don't trust you at all lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

the issue with flipping el is it gives us not much good info at all, i just scumread the slot more cause i feel like i'd have seen something townie from el's slot by now but it's mostly just us disagreeing on everything

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: Daisy

love you too <3

Sheep me then <3

No I don't trust you at all lmao

You know I'd be in a hood with you

I wish this actually meant anything

[OopsieDaisy]

the issue with flipping el is it gives us not much good info at all

So my big interactions with you and shiki and following dann's cote everywhere aren't good to look at post flip?

the issue with flipping el is it gives us not much good info at all, i just scumread the slot more cause i feel like i'd have seen something townie from el's slot by now but it's mostly just us disagreeing on everything

does it not? feel like can definitely analyze pushed wagons/interactions regarding

like if you're town that's one, i do not think anyone is going to argue that i'm partnered with elements and we're just having a go for unknown reasons, so two, and then zero in on rest from your pov

El has joined in with so many pushes that it just melds into one for me. If people disagree with me and see good info from the flip cool let's do it

[OopsieDaisy]

For those voting me, what does my town flip achieve?

[OopsieDaisy]

elements probably gives the most info of the three so thats definitely a wild take

Maybe true but I'd say Elements' posting style makes it intuitively feel like their flip is less informative tbh

Yea this you get me

[OopsieDaisy]

oh i'm certainly not an info-flipper that just felt so ??? to me because those pushes seem very sortable to me

I'll be honest I spaced out through most of your back and forth there was just so much and I was skimming whilst playing social games with my friends until like half an hour ago

[OopsieDaisy]

If you're gonna flip me can I at least lay out my reads first.

[OopsieDaisy]

oh i'm certainly not an info-flipper that just felt so ??? to me because those pushes seem very sortable to me

I'll be honest I spaced out through most of your back and forth there was just so much and I was skimming whilst playing social games with my friends until like half an hour ago

Scribble isn't a social deduction game

I said it was a social game, not a social deduction game.

Omfg why am I having to defend points like this jesus christ you KNOW how pressure makes me play and you're abusing it

[OopsieDaisy]

Ari's vote on me is trash as well tho. Ydrasse is so town out of these 3 it's unreal.

[OopsieDaisy]

If you're gonna flip me can I at least lay out my reads first.

no giving reads is anti-town

Is this a joke orrr?

[OopsieDaisy]

Ydrasse is so town out of these 3 it's unreal.

Please explain

You pushing me right now is absolutely rotten you listed me as a townread a few pages ago I swear?

Ari's vote is opportunistic af and screamssssss playing for survival

Ydra is not you or Ari and is only scum if neither of you are.

[OopsieDaisy]

In terms of big hood:
Meuh is golden town because she's isn't scum with any of the small hood.
Afrayed has been chilling but I don't think that's an awful thing considering their overarching playstyle.
Shiki is a neutral read. Double replacement slot irks me but nothing they've done has been egregious.
Dann has fallen down cause of the recent jabbing at me. I still think Dann might be town tho?
Fire has sat on me the whole game and surprise surprise he's back again because he's too scared to rock the boat and upset his standing with other players. Most survivalistic/scummy of the lot imo.

[OopsieDaisy]

Ydrasse is so town out of these 3 it's unreal.

Please explain

You pushing me right now is absolutely rotten you listed me as a townread a few pages ago I swear?

That was a fake read list to see how shiki would react

Ari's vote is opportunistic af and screamssssss playing for survival

Ari isn't under pressure?

Ydra is not you or Ari and is only scum if neither of you are.

So it's poe, you don't actually tr ydra

1) How tf are we supposed to trust anything you say if you're so willing to lie El? How do we get reliable info when what you say just isn't true cmonnnn.

2) Ari imo is the most likely wagon out of today based on what everyone's said. She's the most common sus in the small hood and consolidating in the big hood has been too tricky. I think Ari is smart enough to see this too.

3) They're in a hood with two ultra-scummy players. Call it POE over a townread idc they are golden and should not be anywhere near execution anytime soon imo.

[OopsieDaisy]

Like El what are your actual reads can you just truthfully tell us where your head is at I BEG pleasee

[OopsieDaisy]

we're ultra scummy ele

Are you trying to wind me up lmao. Honest question like what is that supposed to achieve for town right now?

[OopsieDaisy]

Like El what are your actual reads can you just truthfully tell us where your head is at I BEG pleasee

Idk, I'm gonna figure that out tomorrow after a couple of flips

Oh cmon this just reads so hard as avoiding giving actual info so you can avoid being flipped like

[OopsieDaisy]

I know one of Ari/El is town. There's a world where they both are. But I don't believe it's the world we live in so I'm not gonna dive head first into exploring it when I'm facing E-1 right before the end of the day.

[OopsieDaisy]

we're ultra scummy ele

Are you trying to wind me up lmao. Honest question like what is that supposed to achieve for town right now?

I thought it was funny

Why would I try to wind you up?

The more flustered I am the worst my posting is gonna get, and thus I become an easier target. You've seen me hurt under pressure already this game.

[OopsieDaisy]

Like El what are your actual reads can you just truthfully tell us where your head is at I BEG pleasee

Idk, I'm gonna figure that out tomorrow after a couple of flips

Oh cmon this just reads so hard as avoiding giving actual info so you can avoid being flipped like

And none of ydra's iso is that?

Nice dodge

[OopsieDaisy]

Like El what are your actual reads can you just truthfully tell us where your head is at I BEG pleasee

Idk, I'm gonna figure that out tomorrow after a couple of flips

Oh cmon this just reads so hard as avoiding giving actual info so you can avoid being flipped like

And none of ydra's iso is that?

Nice dodge

Yet not denying it

I'ma be real I haven't took a proper serious look at Ydra's ISO this game. I can't rly comment on her ISO if I haven't seen it.

[OopsieDaisy]

The more flustered I am the worst my posting is gonna get, and thus I become an easier target. You've seen me hurt under pressure already this game.

i have no intention of hurting anyone this game. I thought what you said was really funny when I read it, if it will make you feel better I'll even help you lim myself i really do not care at this point I haven't cared in a while.

Yea dw I meant more hurt in-game as in weaken my town play rather than hurt outside-of-game. I'm clearly heavily invested right now but it's all good I'm ok I'm not like, super mega angry irl.

[OopsieDaisy]

fire is red

Wanna vote fire with me?

I would love that. There's a lot swirling around right now like I want a small hood lim, I felt there was a lack of info in that hood maybe but turns out I'm probably super wrong on that, most of the hood i'm in (where 4/5 are town) say that fire is pretty townie here and i'm barking up the wrong tree.

Like it's the selfish move and it would involve dismissing a lot of other players' perspectives on the game so idk.

[OopsieDaisy]

Fire voting El and El proposing I join up w/ em to vote Fire is not what I was expecting tho.

[OopsieDaisy]

fire is red

Wanna vote fire with me?

I would love that. There's a lot swirling around right now like I want a small hood lim, I felt there was a lack of info in that hood maybe but turns out I'm probably super wrong on that, most of the hood i'm in (where 4/5 are town) say that fire is pretty townie here and i'm barking up the wrong tree.

Like it's the selfish move and it would involve dismissing a lot of other players' perspectives on the game so idk.

What about knott?

I've got no interest whatsoever for a vote there.

[OopsieDaisy]

going to sleep soon. keeping my vote on el for the time being, should be around 2 hours before day end if i'm needed then.

[OopsieDaisy]

oh hey i can't count i thought we were 2 hours away from deadline not 4

[OopsieDaisy]

i'm voting el right now and am happy for that to flip, but can be convinced to move to ari if need be. i don't think el/afrayed is the only team el works with. not interested in a big hood flip.

[OopsieDaisy]

afrayed doesn't even really seem aware of how close we are to deadline but i feel like scum woulda been chatting about it in the pt so that makes me think afrayed is townie

[OopsieDaisy]

Hello everyone. Sorry I’ve been missing, but I have been getting ready for a flight from Dubai to Calgary, I will try to post tomorrow before wheels up

wait this post exists im dumb

[OopsieDaisy]

idk why frayed is suddenly pushing shiki then, we need to consolodate at this point rather than continuing to try and find more options.

[OopsieDaisy]

tho the above post may be motivated by my want to go and play league of legends instead of stare at the game for the next 4 hours lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: daisy
Daisy is very town bin-able day 1 as both alignments because of her play style
Making her very good big hood fodder because she's so unlikely to be voted out day 1

I also would be surprised if red!daisy wouldn't want to be in a hood with me because we know each other so well

I don't think these points are egregious but why are they only coming out now, 3 hours before deadline?

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: daisy
Daisy is very town bin-able day 1 as both alignments because of her play style
Making her very good big hood fodder because she's so unlikely to be voted out day 1

I also would be surprised if red!daisy wouldn't want to be in a hood with me because we know each other so well

I don't think these points are egregious but why are they only coming out now, 3 hours before deadline?

Only just came to my head now when thinking about things.
Big things being why you don't think I'd put you in my hood as Red, easy point to make for Red!you not putting me in your hood

I mean, I'm pretty sure on average over our games I have a much easier time getting townread than you so I wouldn't mind putting us together in the small hood and going for a paranoia-fuelled 1v1 where I bounce between you and whoever the 3rd is. I feel like that's a much easier position for me to play rather than big hood trying to survive until endgame (considering my record in endgames lmao).

I think you could or could not put me in your hood when you're red. You can do it to earn a townread off of me and get the 3rd player pushed out if it's small hood cause I'm gonna defend shitty meta pushes on you, but also you're aware of the expectation and you're very good at playing around with those kinds of expectations. This "I'm not in the same hood as you" point has been used by you so much to try and justify why I should be townreading you from the start of the game, and scum!you can easily have just planned to try and use that as your get out of jail free card for Day 1.

[OopsieDaisy]

you're very good at playing around with those kinds of expectations.

am I?
when have I done this in a forum game?

i like how you had to specify forum game because you know how much your playstyle revolves around that irl lmao (which is what i'm referring to. i can see that you don't rely on fucking with meta as much on forum).

[OopsieDaisy]

i can see that you don't rely on fucking with meta as much on forum.

yet you're using it as a reason to not tr me

It's still applicable.

[OopsieDaisy]

i think el hopping on most pushes in a game to force wagons is NAI. it's the fake reads thing that's getting me.

[OopsieDaisy]

well, on top of everything else that's frustrated me from el lol. i'm just worried i'm mistaking frustration for a scumread but i usually have a reason to townread el by now and nothing is there.

[OopsieDaisy]

does anyone here actually wanna do ari?

[OopsieDaisy]

what reasons do you normally find

similar thought patterns, they get pushed in like the most gross way by a scum trying to get a free lim, sometimes it's just a vibe check where we both feel good about each other those are the dream games.

[OopsieDaisy]

right now the vibe check isn't working, we're clearly not on the same page thoughts-wise, there was the weird push early that i defended but that's a lot softer than the gross pushes that ping me.

[OopsieDaisy]

i am surprised ari's just sorta like, dropped off the radar as the wagon target it feels like she's everyone's second choice but not first. i even just asked about a wagon there and no one responded.

[OopsieDaisy]

tho maybe i was just seeing ghosts cause she always felt like she was next up on the block and then it never ended up happening.

[OopsieDaisy]

what reasons do you normally find

similar thought patterns, they get pushed in like the most gross way by a scum trying to get a free lim, sometimes it's just a vibe check where we both feel good about each other those are the dream games.

the issue with this setup is that it failed me in the last game el & I played together (booneytoonz). none of the above applied but el was still town.

[OopsieDaisy]

i'm kinda talking myself into wanting to vote ari right now i think that might be better

[OopsieDaisy]

yea i want an ari vote i think it's more likely to hit.

anyone know what the votes are at? i've completely lost track

[OopsieDaisy]

why is fire never partnered with ari that's like my top possible scumteam for her right now

[OopsieDaisy]

I don't think I'd characterize my scum play as pretending to be wallpaper but thank you for the vote of confidence fireisredsir

okay, sorry.

I wasnt offended! you dont need to be sorry :<

oh. ok! :>

i might read too much into things

and i am still remembering how to play this game

this is going to be so embarrassing if the one time I don't scumread you you're actually mafia

i might be reading too much into it but i find this really hard to imagine as SvS

nahh none of that is clearing to me.

[OopsieDaisy]

Skygazer with the votecount lets gooo thanks

UNVOTE: Elements
VOTE: Ari

[OopsieDaisy]

how is meuh the vote here she's so town to me

[OopsieDaisy]

im still kinda hung up on thinking it's elements

i'd much rather end today on an el vote over a meuh one

[OopsieDaisy]

43 minutes...

[OopsieDaisy]

43 minutes...

meuh vote or no vote?

i won't let a no vote happen but i'll have a proper winge if it becomes that choice

[OopsieDaisy]

do u want me to self?

only if it's that or a no vote. we've got time to get reactions still.

[OopsieDaisy]

How do so many people think a Meuh vote is a good idea wtf

[OopsieDaisy]

i am waiting at a subway stop rn for my train lemme know what you want me to do

contribute literally anything you can

just keep killing in the small hood and dont let the lim go big hood

THANK YOU

wait this is the person im voting hang on a sec

[OopsieDaisy]

i am waiting at a subway stop rn for my train lemme know what you want me to do

contribute literally anything you can

just keep killing in the small hood and dont let the lim go big hood

THANK YOU

wait this is the person im voting hang on a sec

Also the person not voting meuh

El I'm scum and tmi-ing Meuh is a town flip you're throwing

[OopsieDaisy]

i am waiting at a subway stop rn for my train lemme know what you want me to do

contribute literally anything you can

just keep killing in the small hood and dont let the lim go big hood

THANK YOU

wait this is the person im voting hang on a sec

Also the person not voting meuh

El I'm scum and tmi-ing Meuh is a town flip you're throwing

Mislimming someone isn't throwing

But she's SO town like. My most confident town read in the game.

[OopsieDaisy]

Well El is hammered

[OopsieDaisy]

ty for mod skyg and ty for playing all, fun time as always

and btw oopsiedaisy you were fun to play with, sorry for suspecting you all game!!

it's all good, i enjoyed playing with you too