Open 899 - The Pizza Kids Coalition [Game Over]

[DeasVail]

Read on implosion is very much still in progress but there are some early things concerning me, which I will talk more on later.
I can’t pinpoint exactly what it is that I’m concerned about with Dragon but I can’t identify a strong reason to townread him, and it feels like play that could be consistent with scum trying to be in a town core. (Not that this is a logical reason for scum-reading, but it forms part of my thoughts)

[DragonEater70]

Okay so

I actually have questions for DV as well. Can you explain the implo read and the Ydra read?

Now for Ydra:
1. Do you disagree with my read on Appearance? Why?
2. From 1 to 10, how surface level would you say your read is implo / how confident are you about that read? I feel implo's play reads as pockety towards me and his TR of T3 feels like an afterthought of "I should probably TR someone to look good" rather than a real thought.

Pedit: wow DV answered my question before I asked.

[DragonEater70]

As for my read on Klick, he feels like he's not trying to be TR'd at all (unless he is playing a game of "let's pocket Dragon and get null'd by everybody else", which if it is the case then I wish him luck with that since idk how far it will get him), and I think that makes him pretty towny.

[Elements]

I'm not yet comfortable with Dragon or Ydra being in the 5

[DragonEater70]

this is a bizarre sequence

I sometimes post before I think. This tends to result in weird sequences.

[Ydrasse]

Okay so

I actually have questions for DV as well. Can you explain the implo read and the Ydra read?

Now for Ydra:
1. Do you disagree with my read on Appearance? Why?
2. From 1 to 10, how surface level would you say your read is implo / how confident are you about that read? I feel implo's play reads as pockety towards me and his TR of T3 feels like an afterthought of "I should probably TR someone to look good" rather than a real thought.

Pedit: wow DV answered my question before I asked.

i don’t think appearance has done enough yet for me to be comfortable voting them into the coalition, but i like the elements read so take it as a light shrug

and like a 5 i guess. but which part makes you think implosion is trying to pocket you…?

[Ydrasse]

As for my read on Klick, he feels like he's not trying to be TR'd at all (unless he is playing a game of "let's pocket Dragon and get null'd by everybody else", which if it is the case then I wish him luck with that since idk how far it will get him), and I think that makes him pretty towny.

who do you think is trying to do that then?

he hasn’t posted a lot so i struggle to see how someone can very comfortably make that call i guess. there’s a part of me that thinks he could be playing a clever wolf game based on how he treated you by like… kind of uno carding you. i don’t know how likely this is but i felt it was possible, and if he was doing something like that he’s now got someone in his court without much loss. with what looks like recent history it makes sense to me that he might want to capitalize on that when presented with the chance, etc

[Elements]

i like the elements read so take it as a light shrug

what about the read do you like?

[DragonEater70]

DragonEater has a certain aesthetic to his reasoning that reminds me of myself in a way, probably moreso in the past than now. The idea of viewing x thing as more/less likely to come from scum (i.e. reading 1 vs 2 people in an opening post) in such a way that really looks like splitting hairs unless you're the one making the claim. I think when I would post that way I probably tended to do it more as town than scum because it's a lot easier to naturally come up with a sort of hairbrained theory when you're genuinely thinking about the game. It's the kind of read I'd post in the first few pages and then go back and look at weeks later while rereading myself (as town) and genuinely have no idea how I came to the conclusion in the read. I think his first couple pages are fairly towny.

This is not the point I'm making. In 46, you say that we should focus scumreads more than townreads because focusing townreads lets scum blend in. At the same time, you say Appearance is town and so far all he'd done was give out 2 unexplained TRs. If you think scum blends in by focusing on TRs, you don't also think that Appearance is town. You're claiming to have one philosophy on how to play the setup that contradicts your reads.

I don't like this post/line of logic. It feels less like a misrep (i actually don't like dragoneater calling it a misrep) and more like it's reductive, like if Dragoneater claims to have a particular philosophy that he mentioned then that philosophy doesn't necessarily underrun everything that he thinks. It's lacking in consideration imo as a reason to scumread dragoneater (and it does look like kyouko is scumreading dragoneater).

I love how you say you used to say "this is more likely to come from town than scum" in the past, and immediately follow it with "I think this posting is more likely to come from town than scum" (not saying this is alignment indicative, just find it funny). As a note, yeah that's an early game read, not a lategame read.

i mean yeah i kind of realized i was doing this. the difference now is that i

think

i usually try to draw some concrete line of reasoning between the thing i'm analyzing and how i think someone would view the game as town or scum, 79 is a really good example because i have a very specific reason for thinking that post is extremely town, it's not just a hunch (and I'm not saying your reads are just hunches if you are town, but to me they sort of look the same as hunches without access to how you're actually thinking about the game, if that makes sense).

Also, what do you make of DV's post being the way it is?

This is a good question and I think the answer is that i'm not really sure and i should probably go to sleep.

All of this. I might be confbiasing, but I feel the tone of the TR on me isn't very genuine. I am not sure as town implo would really have this read on me. I am also not a fan of implo "not liking" things I did but TRing me anyway - it feels like trying too hard to add subtlety to the read that isn't really there.

And also it feels this sequence of posts has an underlying message of like "hey Dragon, we're similar and I should be your mentor", sort of.

[DragonEater70]

As for my read on Klick, he feels like he's not trying to be TR'd at all (unless he is playing a game of "let's pocket Dragon and get null'd by everybody else", which if it is the case then I wish him luck with that since idk how far it will get him), and I think that makes him pretty towny.

who do you think is trying to do that then?

he hasn’t posted a lot so i struggle to see how someone can very comfortably make that call i guess. there’s a part of me that thinks he could be playing a clever wolf game based on how he treated you by like… kind of uno carding you. i don’t know how likely this is but i felt it was possible, and if he was doing something like that he’s now got someone in his court without much loss. with what looks like recent history it makes sense to me that he might want to capitalize on that when presented with the chance, etc

implo is trying very hard to be TR'd.

[Ydrasse]

elements maybe town for not focusing so much on forming a townblock.

half my posts are about towning T3?

i would say that since t3 is a consensus tr at this point, i don't see scum!you benefiting much for doing something that implo has done too and was sred for

appearance outs a read and you challenge it with what i think is a logical point. and then they reply with this which seems very sensical to me. i like reads like this that think about the benefits and motives (this sounds so dumb typing it lol)

[DragonEater70]

Yes, I am aware that Klick could be pocketing me potentially - I just don't think it's likely. I think as the game continues his alignment will be easier to discern, though.

[Ydrasse]

can you quote for me like i’m dumb the parts that make you feel like implo is trying to be townread

[DragonEater70]

Yes.

[DragonEater70]

I’m flying back from holiday stuff tomorrow and should be pretty around generally after that.

T3 townish.

"I'll give an early read so I'll look towny"

DragonEater has a certain aesthetic to his reasoning that reminds me of myself in a way, probably moreso in the past than now. The idea of viewing x thing as more/less likely to come from scum (i.e. reading 1 vs 2 people in an opening post) in such a way that really looks like splitting hairs unless you're the one making the claim. I think when I would post that way I probably tended to do it more as town than scum because it's a lot easier to naturally come up with a sort of hairbrained theory when you're genuinely thinking about the game. It's the kind of read I'd post in the first few pages and then go back and look at weeks later while rereading myself (as town) and genuinely have no idea how I came to the conclusion in the read. I think his first couple pages are fairly towny.

Writes a very detailed take full of "nuance" or whatever, trying to give the impression that he is putting a lot of thought into the game.

This is not the point I'm making. In 46, you say that we should focus scumreads more than townreads because focusing townreads lets scum blend in. At the same time, you say Appearance is town and so far all he'd done was give out 2 unexplained TRs. If you think scum blends in by focusing on TRs, you don't also think that Appearance is town. You're claiming to have one philosophy on how to play the setup that contradicts your reads.

I don't like this post/line of logic. It feels less like a misrep (i actually don't like dragoneater calling it a misrep) and more like it's reductive, like if Dragoneater claims to have a particular philosophy that he mentioned then that philosophy doesn't necessarily underrun everything that he thinks. It's lacking in consideration imo as a reason to scumread dragoneater (and it does look like kyouko is scumreading dragoneater).

Again, there's a feeling like he is putting a lot of nuance in this post to look good. I have no idea what purpose this post serves other than putting on a show of having nuanced takes.

ssbm, elements, t3 and appearance are all provisional townreads for me

This is an interesting post, with me and Ydrasse having posted like once each at this point this is townreading everyone who has posted a fair amount except dragoneater and klick. I get townvibes from klick as well.

Tries to look like he has meaningful thoughts or like he's uninformed or something by calling this "interesting". When I ask him of he thinks it means anything he doesn't even have an answer. So this post is just there to look good, yet again.

[Ydrasse]

mmm
regarding the last post at least i don’t think that’s very damning to me, a lot of times there are posts that are weird or oddities but it’s hard to place why beyond them standing out.

what would have made 19 better? not posting a thought? not posting at all? 19 posts in seems very accessible to read quickly.

as for the other two, i just want to clarify (sorry i’m being annoying probably going over tread ground), is the problem that there’s more detail than you’d like or do you disagree with what he’s saying as well

[DragonEater70]

Last one is not damning by itself, but it looks in combination with the others.

19 - this is the least damning post, but out of everyone in RVS, it just pinged me as trying to be townread. It's definitely not impossible that a towny would do that, I just think it's VERY likely that a scummie would do that. Can't really explain my thought process here without overexplaining it to the point it almost becomes meaningless, so I totally understand if you choose to disregard it, but just know there is a thought process there.

Middle two - like obviously I don't disagree with him calling me town, but I just feel like the read is fake (as I said earlier), and even if it could be true he is using way too many words to describe it. I also don't disagree with not liking Kyo's line of logic, but I disagree with the rest of the post and think it's just there to add nuance that isn't really necessary.

[DragonEater70]

Here's an example of a completely overexplained and meaningless thought process from a completed game, if you are curious what I mean by that:

viewtopic.php?p=14018141#p14018141

[Ydrasse]

have you checked that to how implosion normally plays?

[Klick]

Though tbh Ydra could in theory be scum so I urge you all not to blindly sheep me before we do some more solving and stuff

No I think Ydrasse actually is just town

[Klick]

Town

Kyouko
Elements
Ydrasse
T3
Klick
Appearance
Dragon
Implosion

Scum

^this is a rough indication of my reads right now

I want to understand what your thoughts are about Dragon atm.

[DragonEater70]

Though tbh Ydra could in theory be scum so I urge you all not to blindly sheep me before we do some more solving and stuff

No I think Ydrasse actually is just town

Oh good

So I

have

solved the game on page 2. Nice.

[DragonEater70]

I want to understand what your thoughts are about Dragon atm.

What are your thoughts? On any slot other than Ydra.

[Klick]

Read on implosion is very much still in progress but there are some early things concerning me, which I will talk more on later.
I can’t pinpoint exactly what it is that I’m concerned about with Dragon but I can’t identify a strong reason to townread him, and it feels like play that could be consistent with scum trying to be in a town core. (Not that this is a logical reason for scum-reading, but it forms part of my thoughts)

Oh I missed that you already did this post

[DragonEater70]

have you checked that to how implosion normally plays?

I haven't actively checked, but I've read a scum game of his before and everything he's posted so far is within his scum range and fits my mental model of scum!implo.

Sort of edit:
Took a while to find because apparently he hasn't played a lot this year, but I just skimmed his iso in a town game of his, and I don't feel the same overly-nuanced tone in that town game at all.