Mini Normal 2323 [There is an Inventor] | FIN

[Katsuki]

1. I'm not saying you should wallpost a case. I just think explaining why you think I'm scum might help others see what you're seeing

2. I just don't agree with this. If you are the most confident in scum!me then it shouldn't be a ton of effort to push me, regardless of what the other players think. You haven't even tried. You've barely elaborated on your scumread at all. That approach just doesn't make sense to me

3. Are you typically right about your D1 reads? Because I'm not and I'll be shocked if your D1 read accuracy is high

1. I don't see the benefit of giving scum that information before I'm ready to nom them.

2. This may be the case if it weren't for the fact that there are already available wagons on acceptable nomcandidates to me. Drumming up a push on you would only serve to dilute focus, and there's no sense in distracting one scumwagon with another.

3. In games where I don't have a good read on the game I tend to not state any reads publicly, and continue to observe deeper into the game until they form. Other games, I get players whom I can read in the span of a couple posts.

If you want examples of high accuracy, off the top of my head I'll give you these games:

viewtopic.php?p=6761905#p6761905
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=15776
viewtopic.php?t=17423

[Black]

Are you not listening to me?

Yes I'm listening to you, I just don't believe you

[JacksonVirgo]

It feels like they are ignoring half of the playerlist which gives me the feeling that they're not trying to solve at all. They just want to push their own little agenda to blend in and seem like they're doing stuff

Not ignoring, I'm trying to broaden the gaps in my reads as I know I have them. I'm trying to see if Kitty is always this like apprehensive as a Town, cuz at the moment it feels like they can't back up or stand by their own words at this point.

[JacksonVirgo]

Are you not listening to me?

Yes I'm listening to you, I just don't believe you

Hm, I don't believe you're giving me the light of day here personally

[Thomith]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

I'm getting gut pings here that this slot is scum. I think they have been super appease-y in their interactions with me/Thom despite us being their top scumreads. I also think they've been kinda defensive too

I think they had a perspective slip regarding me and saying they think I'm a good player and they can't wait for me to pop off later, despite me being their biggest scumread. I'm not buying the excuse that they were trying to address me as town even though they don't think I am

It feels like they are ignoring half of the playerlist which gives me the feeling that they're not trying to solve at all. They just want to push their own little agenda to blend in and seem like they're doing stuff

I'm willing to move elsewhere if this doesn't get support but I think we should wagon this rn

Am I just blind and not seeing them try to appease me..

I see your point about how they're approaching you, but in my eyes they're still just hard pushing me so dont see the appeasement?

[Katsuki]

If you want examples of high accuracy, off the top of my head I'll give you these games:

Perfect D1 readlist, bottom 3 players were the scumteam.
viewtopic.php?p=6761905#p6761905

Had 3 scum read D1, tried to distract one scumwagon with another scum if I recall.
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=15776

Had like 7 hard townreads (not publicized in game thread) and solid 2 scumreads D1.
viewtopic.php?t=17423

Should've given mini blurbs.

[Black]

1. I'm not saying you should wallpost a case. I just think explaining why you think I'm scum might help others see what you're seeing

2. I just don't agree with this. If you are the most confident in scum!me then it shouldn't be a ton of effort to push me, regardless of what the other players think. You haven't even tried. You've barely elaborated on your scumread at all. That approach just doesn't make sense to me

3. Are you typically right about your D1 reads? Because I'm not and I'll be shocked if your D1 read accuracy is high

1. I don't see the benefit of giving scum that information before I'm ready to nom them.

2. This may be the case if it weren't for the fact that there are already available wagons on acceptable nomcandidates to me. Drumming up a push on you would only serve to dilute focus, and there's no sense in distracting one scumwagon with another.

3. In games where I don't have a good read on the game I tend to not state any reads publicly, and continue to observe deeper into the game until they form. Other games, I get players whom I can read in the span of a couple posts.

If you want examples of high accuracy, off the top of my head I'll give you these games:

viewtopic.php?p=6761905#p6761905
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=15776
viewtopic.php?t=17423

1. I guess the benefit would be to show others why I'm scummy. But I do understand the concept of not wanting to let someone you think is scum interact with your reasons to try and sway you or convince others you're wrong

2. You thought I was scum very early though so I don't really think diluting focus is a great reason to not push me

3. I'm impressed if your D1 read accuracy is actually good. That's not very common in my experience. I don't have the time on my lunch break to look over those games but I'll take your word for it. The way you worded it just seemed like you'll be surprised if you're wrong about people which I thought was weird because I'm constantly having to reevaluate my reads

[JacksonVirgo]

Regarding my theory. I thought Jackson and Thom could be scum together. I didn't like the way Jackson was attacking my townread on Thom and it felt like they knew Thom was scum and was using that to try to paint me in a bad light

I joined the wagon because I wanted to see how Jackson reacted to the wagon if it gained momentum. I figured they would abandon ship. The vote felt like distancing and I didn't think Jackson would be down to full on bus this early. The wagon didn't really gain any interest though so I wasn't able to gauge their reaction to it

I'm less convinced in this pairing after asking Thom about Jackson and seeing them interact some more, but it's still a possibility. I think Jackson is probably scum independent of Thom's alignment

I assumed it would be something like this, did you go into this still with the town-read on Thom?

[Katsuki]

I guess just your Katsuki read then

The thing that pinged me a bit was that they seemed to hard tunnel on Dave early in the game, and then seemed to begin attempting to switch to faster wagons when they started emerging. The jump off of dave felt a little wonky to me.

Pre-emptively saying things like "I dont like day 1" to almost give an out of how hard you're going to try rubs me the wrong way too, but tbh this is probably NAI, just pinged me at the time.

After reading the ISO again, I probably could bump them up a tier.

We must have very different definitions of hard tunnel. How hard would you quantify my push on Dave this game? Because neither the duration nor the intensity with which I pushed Dave would qualify as "hard tunneling".

I never said I didn't like D1s, just not D1s with like 200 pgs, which was the context of that convo with GE.

[Black]

Regarding my theory. I thought Jackson and Thom could be scum together. I didn't like the way Jackson was attacking my townread on Thom and it felt like they knew Thom was scum and was using that to try to paint me in a bad light

I joined the wagon because I wanted to see how Jackson reacted to the wagon if it gained momentum. I figured they would abandon ship. The vote felt like distancing and I didn't think Jackson would be down to full on bus this early. The wagon didn't really gain any interest though so I wasn't able to gauge their reaction to it

I'm less convinced in this pairing after asking Thom about Jackson and seeing them interact some more, but it's still a possibility. I think Jackson is probably scum independent of Thom's alignment

I assumed it would be something like this, did you go into this still with the town-read on Thom?

Once I got paranoid that you were scum together Thom dropped from my townreads

[JacksonVirgo]

Regarding my theory. I thought Jackson and Thom could be scum together. I didn't like the way Jackson was attacking my townread on Thom and it felt like they knew Thom was scum and was using that to try to paint me in a bad light

I joined the wagon because I wanted to see how Jackson reacted to the wagon if it gained momentum. I figured they would abandon ship. The vote felt like distancing and I didn't think Jackson would be down to full on bus this early. The wagon didn't really gain any interest though so I wasn't able to gauge their reaction to it

I'm less convinced in this pairing after asking Thom about Jackson and seeing them interact some more, but it's still a possibility. I think Jackson is probably scum independent of Thom's alignment

I assumed it would be something like this, did you go into this still with the town-read on Thom?

Once I got paranoid that you were scum together Thom dropped from my townreads

What caused you to be paranoid to begin with?

[Thomith]

I guess just your Katsuki read then

The thing that pinged me a bit was that they seemed to hard tunnel on Dave early in the game, and then seemed to begin attempting to switch to faster wagons when they started emerging. The jump off of dave felt a little wonky to me.

Pre-emptively saying things like "I dont like day 1" to almost give an out of how hard you're going to try rubs me the wrong way too, but tbh this is probably NAI, just pinged me at the time.

After reading the ISO again, I probably could bump them up a tier.

We must have very different definitions of hard tunnel. How hard would you quantify my push on Dave this game? Because neither the duration nor the intensity with which I pushed Dave would qualify as "hard tunneling".

I never said I didn't like D1s, just not D1s with like 200 pgs, which was the context of that convo with GE.

Gotcha fair enough on the second point then.
I remember when I played in 2011 that a 90 something page Mini game I was in was like the 4th longest game at the time . Things have definitely changed.

To me it felt like you had one reason to push dave that didn't really grow, and the fact you were the only one there for a while, where it felt things were kind of happening around you (at least that's the vibe I got at the time) it felt kind if tunelly?

[Black]

Regarding my theory. I thought Jackson and Thom could be scum together. I didn't like the way Jackson was attacking my townread on Thom and it felt like they knew Thom was scum and was using that to try to paint me in a bad light

I joined the wagon because I wanted to see how Jackson reacted to the wagon if it gained momentum. I figured they would abandon ship. The vote felt like distancing and I didn't think Jackson would be down to full on bus this early. The wagon didn't really gain any interest though so I wasn't able to gauge their reaction to it

I'm less convinced in this pairing after asking Thom about Jackson and seeing them interact some more, but it's still a possibility. I think Jackson is probably scum independent of Thom's alignment

I assumed it would be something like this, did you go into this still with the town-read on Thom?

Once I got paranoid that you were scum together Thom dropped from my townreads

What caused you to be paranoid to begin with?

Your whole catchup and then your subsequent push on me/Thom

It felt like you were using the fact that you knew Thom was scum as a way to undermine my townread on him. And I felt like you voting for Thom instead of me was a distancing attempt

[Black]

@kyouko you should help me wagon Jackson

[JacksonVirgo]

It felt like you were using the fact that you knew Thom was scum as a way to undermine my townread on him. And I felt like you voting for Thom instead of me was a distancing attempt

I scum-read him more than I did you

[JacksonVirgo]

I gotta check back on the Naerys vote thing to see if it's consistent enough, I gotta give it to you though this makes a lot of sense as to why you dropped the TR on Thom as quickly as you did.

[Katsuki]

1. I guess the benefit would be to show others why I'm scummy. But I do understand the concept of not wanting to let someone you think is scum interact with your reasons to try and sway you or convince others you're wrong

2. You thought I was scum very early though so I don't really think diluting focus is a great reason to not push me

3. I'm impressed if your D1 read accuracy is actually good. That's not very common in my experience. I don't have the time on my lunch break to look over those games but I'll take your word for it. The way you worded it just seemed like you'll be surprised if you're wrong about people which I thought was weird because I'm constantly having to reevaluate my reads

2. If you're talking about early on, first it took me some time to solidify my read on you. I was also in the process of developing reads on the rest of the game. It doesn't make sense for me to push for your nom before I'm ready to. By the time I had gotten a satisfactory grasp of the game a couple of days in, there were already other existing wagons that I was happy with first.
It comes down to you not a being a player I know well enough to POWERNOM after 5 posts, and me liking you enough that I would actually be terribly sad if I happened to be wrong and misnom'ed you D1.

3. Some players I can read with 90-100% accuracy within 10-30 seconds, but it doesn't apply this game as none of those are present. I don't share my reads unless I believe that they're likely to be right. This just so happens to be one of those games where I have a high number of townreads I'm comfortable with, and a scumread I feel confident in.

[Katsuki]

Gotcha fair enough on the second point then.
I remember when I played in 2011 that a 90 something page Mini game I was in was like the 4th longest game at the time . Things have definitely changed.

To me it felt like you had one reason to push dave that didn't really grow, and the fact you were the only one there for a while, where it felt things were kind of happening around you (at least that's the vibe I got at the time) it felt kind if tunelly?

You're going to make me sound like a boomer when I say that I played in a lot of activity record setting games back then. >_>

Ya, the reasons I had for suspecting Dave didn't really grow like you said, which is why I never escalated my push there.

[Thomith]

Regarding my theory. I thought Jackson and Thom could be scum together. I didn't like the way Jackson was attacking my townread on Thom and it felt like they knew Thom was scum and was using that to try to paint me in a bad light

I joined the wagon because I wanted to see how Jackson reacted to the wagon if it gained momentum. I figured they would abandon ship. The vote felt like distancing and I didn't think Jackson would be down to full on bus this early. The wagon didn't really gain any interest though so I wasn't able to gauge their reaction to it

I'm less convinced in this pairing after asking Thom about Jackson and seeing them interact some more, but it's still a possibility. I think Jackson is probably scum independent of Thom's alignment

To 100% confirm, is this

think

or

thought

?

[Black]

I still think you could be scum together but I'm less sure than I was last night

[Black]

Thom I don't think your reasons for having Jackson so high in your reads are very good, and you put an asterisk by him which means you're confident in the read. Something feels off about that

[Black]

By them*

Sorry I was typing too fast

[Thomith]

I am confident because of the reasons I stated, which you disagree with.
The catchup did feel like they were genuinely trying to solve, the progressions to me felt like they were legitimate and genuine.

Again it feels like our opinions on the below are just different:

I don't think I agree with the premise that scum try to avoid starting new wagons. I think it's more risky for them to jump on wagons that have already gained some momentum because it can come across as opportunistic. Starting a new wagon and going against the grain is usually pretty safe and often times viewed as them trying to solve the game

In the instance of replacing in, especially with how many sheep votes CCS had specifically, I don't think it would have been too hard for somebody to come up with a reason to vote them that means Jackson didn't look like the worst vote on the wagon should CCS flip town. DE70 also has enough people suspecting him for relatively valid reasons, that I don't even think a sheep vote looks too bad there either.
idk, I just feel like it would be super bold for scum to come in to 3 relatively easy votes that probably don't make them look that bad, and could still feasibly look like they are solving if they word things right, and instead try and start a new wagon. Maybe I'm WIFOMing too hard.

I'm in a weird spot where my two top townreads are suspecting each other, which is making it hard for me to make sense of things either way, because I trust you both.

[Thomith]

I guess just your Katsuki read then

Yes but it may take me a little bit to consolidate how I'm feeling into a post because I'm still at work for a little bit.

Can you also go over your Dave read a little when you get around to it? I think I'm townreading him tonally so I'm curious what you see there

This likely happens tomorrow, because my brain is a little too fried to reread his ISO today. I did briefly go into detail, but will speak about specific post that pinged me tomorrow if that's fine?

[biancospino]

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