Open 106 - Impotence Mafia (Game Over!) before 714

[StrangerCoug]

I could also ask what’s insubstantial about BSW’s observation that Apassionata seems to be ignoring Yorgi. Or, better, how come you’re ignoring me all of a sudden.

The insubstantialness is that BlondeSoWut is using WIFOM to paint both of them in a scummy light. (I'm not denying that distancing is a scum tell; I simply have nothing with which to back their doing so.) Why I'm ignoring you all of a sudden, if I interpret you correctly, is because I think I have a more substantial case on BSW than on you.

-----

Vote Count:

xofelf

(0)

mrfixij

(0)

chenhsi

(0)

yorgi

(0)

EmpTyger

(1) - chenhsi

afatchic

(0)

BlondeSoWut

(2) - StrangerCoug, yorgi

StrangerCoug

(3) - Caboose, Natirasha, EmpTyger

Appassionata

(1) - BlondeSoWut

Zakeri

(1) - mrfixij

Caboose

(0)

Natirasha

(2) - afatchic, Zakeri

Not voting

(1) - Appassionata, xofelf

With 12 players alive, 7 votes will achieve a lynch.

Deadline for Day 1 is January 3.

[EmpTyger]

SC:
BSW said, essentially:
“Observation: If Apassionata is mafia, then I suspect yorgi is too for <reason>.
<reason> = Apassionata seems to be ignoring yorgi.”
1)

That’s not WIFOM.

It makes absolutely no claim about how mafia would not act.
2) I asked you what’s insubstantial about <reason> and all you could say is that the observation is insubstantial. In fact, you don’t deny that <reason> is valid- you admit that to you it’s a valid scumtell!

You opportunistically say that BSW’s observation is insubstantial when she receives attention (I really like my theory that you’re jumping onto BSW simply because she’s chosen a playstyle that makes her an easier target). And yet even when I question how, you merely bluster about WIFOM and insubstancy and do absolutely nothing to address that. And, for good measure, how is Natirasha not strictly worse than BSW using your logic? Once again you are finding a reason not to vote Natirasha… (let me guess, this is me insubstantially using WIFOM, right?)

[StrangerCoug]

SC:
BSW said, essentially:
“Observation: If Apassionata is mafia, then I suspect yorgi is too for <reason>.
<reason> = Apassionata seems to be ignoring yorgi.”
1)

That’s not WIFOM.

It makes absolutely no claim about how mafia would not act.

You missed BlondeSoWut's saying "If I were Mafia, I'd do it too", which is where I'm getting the WIFOM.

2) I asked you what’s insubstantial about <reason> and all you could say is that the observation is insubstantial. In fact, you don’t deny that <reason> is valid- you admit that to you it’s a valid scumtell!

To me, insubstantial = with little or no backing. There's not much else I see to it. Of course I admitted the tell (in this case, distancing) as valid. However, I don't see anything solid to back it up. Apassionata could be distancing from yorgi by ignoring her, or yorgi simply may not have said anything to catch Apassionata's attention. yorgi is, however, voting BlondeSoWut for roughly the same reason that I am.

And, for good measure, how is Natirasha not strictly worse than BSW using your logic?

Natirasha's just plain anti-town. BlondeSoWut is painting two people in a scummy light based on how he claims he would be playing as Mafia.

Once again you are finding a reason not to vote Natirasha… (let me guess, this is me insubstantially using WIFOM, right?)

If I'm reading what you're saying in a negative way, it looks more to me like you're poisoning Natirasha's well than insubstantially using WIFOM, but to address your concern, I simply believe I can better back up my vote on BlondeSoWut than on Natirasha, though the latter hasn't completely gone away as a suspect.

[mrfixij]

BSW doesn't have ANY reason to be suspicious of Apass or Yorgi. This doesn't mean that they're not mafia, it means that BSW is throwing a virtually random suspicion. BSW is playing stupid. That means that even if she is in the informed minority, she can act like the uninformed majority without any effort whatsoever. If she all of a sudden gets a clue, that would be regarded as playing protown, but also be seen as becoming informed, so she's at a catch 22. As it is, I think that suspicion without a reason is not worthy suspicion at all. I can't see where she's pulling Apass and yorgi from when there's other pairs of inactivity that are just as possible. The only probable explanation is intentional stupidity.

This is different from Nat's anti-town play because Nat can be read. Nat, despite all the ridiculous antics and "I'll always claim SK lol" has shown that he can at the very least use logic to make an attempt at becoming informed. If he should ever show too much knowledge, then we can lynch him without question. BSW's play is easier to maintain, and not pro-town. This makes it more dangerous, but not necessarily scummy.

As far as Zakeri goes, I think he's cleared himself for now. I don't like the fact that Stranger is voting for BSW who is ultimately unconfirmable as of now. However, I don't like the fact that he is targetting aggression before he switched to BSW. Aggression isn't scummy, it's just a good way to rile up emotions and get players to slip up. If EMP is going to be "pushy", it just means that someone is going to push back and we're going to get a ton of information from the exchange. As of now though, discouraging antagonistic behavior is anti-information, and therefore anti-town.

unvote
Vote: StrangerCoug

[BlondeSoWut]

I think Apass is in the mafia cus hes quiet but hes still here. He says stuff but he keeps attention off him. First he voted me which is wut evryone else was doing. Then he said Emps idea was bad. Evryone was doing that too! He unvoted me and hasnt even voted anyone else yet. He hasnt even said who he thinks is in the mafia! I think its cus he knows but he wont say.

So Apass is playing the background and doing wut evryone else does.

Yorgi is only voting me cus I said if Apass is in the mafia Yorgi is too. It might be cus Im on to something and other people already voted for me so it doesnt look too bad.

If Apass isnt in the mafia Yorgi might not be. It all dupends on Apass. Thats why I voted for Apass first.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't like the fact that Stranger is voting for BSW who is ultimately unconfirmable as of now.

How am I any more confirmable than BlondeSoWut?

[yorgi]

I think Apass is in the mafia cus hes quiet but hes still here. He says stuff but he keeps attention off him. First he voted me which is wut evryone else was doing. Then he said Emps idea was bad. Evryone was doing that too! He unvoted me and hasnt even voted anyone else yet. He hasnt even said who he thinks is in the mafia! I think its cus he knows but he wont say.

So Apass is playing the background and doing wut evryone else does.

Yorgi is only voting me cus I said if Apass is in the mafia Yorgi is too. It might be cus Im on to something and other people already voted for me so it doesnt look too bad.

If Apass isnt in the mafia Yorgi might not be. It all dupends on Apass. Thats why I voted for Apass first.

You stated I was mafia with Apass over everyone else who Apass ignored. I feel this is an attempt to try and cause a mislynch or bus a scum buddy. Your views on his quietness is now noted where as before you had no reason for your vote. I'm voting you for your poor logic and lack of reason behind your comments.

[afatchic]

My thoughts on BSW is that if she is scum, 1 of the two people she is accusing of being scum is her scum buddy. Therefore if we followed her, she would bus one scum, somewhat clearing her, and then cause a mislynch later.

[BlondeSoWut]

I already said he was quiet. It doesnt matter too much who hes ignoring yet. I only said it so people would remember if I die. Whys it such a big deal?

[yorgi]

I already said he was quiet. It doesnt matter too much who hes ignoring yet. I only said it so people would remember if I die. Whys it such a big deal?

You didn't state a reason till someone asked. You claimed a scum buddy based on weak reason that many other players fall under the same category. How is that helpful?

[Appassionata]

I already said he was quiet. It doesnt matter too much who hes ignoring yet. I only said it so people would remember if I die. Whys it such a big deal?

It's a big deal because I see no grounds at all for your argument against me. The only thing you've done this whole game is accuse me, why so obsessed?

[BlondeSoWut]

Vote: Blondesowut

for being blonde.

Just cus other people voted me first!

Caboose, cus he followed the crowd with his vote and hes too quiet! And hes got no real reason for his vote.

I think Apass is in the mafia cus hes quiet but hes still here. He says stuff but he keeps attention off him. First he voted me which is wut evryone else was doing. Then he said Emps idea was bad. Evryone was doing that too! He unvoted me and hasnt even voted anyone else yet. He hasnt even said who he thinks is in the mafia! I think its cus he knows but he wont say.

So Apass is playing the background and doing wut evryone else does.

Ive said it more than just that time!

[Crazy]

Prodding chenhsi and Zakeri.

[EmpTyger]

I would like to warn that we have much less time than the deadline would indicate; I expect coordination to be difficult if not unlikely over the holiday.

---

Appassionata:
Did you accept SC’s explanation of how BSW used WIFOM? To you, how does BSW compare to Natirasha or SC?

---

yorgi:
What do you think about Appassionata, independent of BSW? What are you currently thinking about SC? And anything to say about this?

My thoughts on BSW is that if she is scum, 1 of the two people she is accusing of being scum is her scum buddy. Therefore if we followed her, she would bus one scum, somewhat clearing her, and then cause a mislynch later.

---

SC:
Why do you refer to BSW as “he”?

SC:
BSW said, essentially:
“Observation: If Apassionata is mafia, then I suspect yorgi is too for <reason>.
<reason> = Apassionata seems to be ignoring yorgi.”
1)

That’s not WIFOM.

It makes absolutely no claim about how mafia would not act.

You missed BlondeSoWut's saying "If I were Mafia, I'd do it too", which is where I'm getting the WIFOM.

That’s *still* not WIFOM.

It *still* makes absolutely no claim about how mafia would not act.

2) I asked you what’s insubstantial about <reason> and all you could say is that the observation is insubstantial. In fact, you don’t deny that <reason> is valid- you admit that to you it’s a valid scumtell!

To me, insubstantial = with little or no backing. There's not much else I see to it. Of course I admitted the tell (in this case, distancing) as valid. However, I don't see anything solid to back it up. Apassionata could be distancing from yorgi by ignoring her, or yorgi simply may not have said anything to catch Apassionata's attention. yorgi is, however, voting BlondeSoWut for roughly the same reason that I am.[/quote]
BSW made 2 observation:
1) She suspects Appassionata is mafia because <reason1>.
2) If Appassionata is mafia, then she suspects yorgi too, because <reason2>.

You argue that BSW is mafia because <reason2> is insubstantial in proving <statement1>. Which, compared to some of your more egregious illogical attacks this game, almost isn’t even worth attacking.

And, for good measure, how is Natirasha not strictly worse than BSW using your logic?

Natirasha's just plain anti-town. BlondeSoWut is painting two people in a scummy light based on how he claims he would be playing as Mafia.
<snip>

And, once again, how is Natirasha not strictly worse than BSW using that logic?

---

BSW:
I have better things to do with my time than translate your gimmick. Over 3 people are not following you, so it’s not attributable to alignment. And I do not think this town can afford any more additional unhelpfulness to distract it. So drop it and play for real- or whatever consequence will be your responsibility. Right now, I believe from your play that you want the town to win, and so I suggest you take an amnesty of sort: henceforth drop the persona. Because as it should have become clear by now, regardless of how well your play might be, by handicapping your communication, you will harm the town. So if you persist in acting in a suboptimal way when you clearly have the option of performing better, then there’s really only one reason I can think of for that: deliberately wanting the town to fail. And if I have better things to do than translate for someone I think is protown, I certainly have better things to do than translate for someone I think isn’t. Like, vote them.

[Zakeri]

First he voted me which is wut evryone else was doing. Then he said Emps idea was bad. Evryone was doing that too! He unvoted me and hasnt even voted anyone else yet. He hasnt even said who he thinks is in the mafia!

This looks to me like a case against Appassionista. It's true there are holes in it, but it does constitute for a day one case. App, who do you suspect is in the Mafia and why?

Unvote

[StrangerCoug]

Why do you refer to BSW as “he”?

Because I'm paying more attention to my case on her than her gender.

That’s *still* not WIFOM.

It *still* makes absolutely no claim about how mafia would not act.

Prove that, to be guilty of WIFOM, you must make a claim as to how mafia would not act as opposed to how they would act. Last time I checked, it worked either way.

BSW made 2 observation:
1) She suspects Appassionata is mafia because <reason1>.
2) If Appassionata is mafia, then she suspects yorgi too, because <reason2>.

You argue that BSW is mafia because <reason2> is insubstantial in proving <statement1>. Which, compared to some of your more egregious illogical attacks this game, almost isn’t even worth attacking.

<reason1> is insubstantial in the first place.

And, for good measure, how is Natirasha not strictly worse than BSW using your logic?

Natirasha's just plain anti-town. BlondeSoWut is painting two people in a scummy light based on how he claims he would be playing as Mafia.
<snip>

And, once again, how is Natirasha not strictly worse than BSW using that logic?

How is my answer not an appropriate response?

[Caboose]

Why do you refer to BSW as “he”?

Because I'm paying more attention to my case on her than her gender.

That’s *still* not WIFOM.

It *still* makes absolutely no claim about how mafia would not act.

Prove that, to be guilty of WIFOM, you must make a claim as to how mafia would not act as opposed to how they would act. Last time I checked, it worked either way.

BSW made 2 observation:
1) She suspects Appassionata is mafia because <reason1>.
2) If Appassionata is mafia, then she suspects yorgi too, because <reason2>.

You argue that BSW is mafia because <reason2> is insubstantial in proving <statement1>. Which, compared to some of your more egregious illogical attacks this game, almost isn’t even worth attacking.

<reason1> is insubstantial in the first place.

And, for good measure, how is Natirasha not strictly worse than BSW using your logic?

Natirasha's just plain anti-town. BlondeSoWut is painting two people in a scummy light based on how he claims he would be playing as Mafia.
<snip>

And, once again, how is Natirasha not strictly worse than BSW using that logic?

How is my answer not an appropriate response?

[Caboose]

Hmmm...
Ignore that last post.

BSW made 2 observation:
1) She suspects Appassionata is mafia because <reason1>.
2) If Appassionata is mafia, then she suspects yorgi too, because <reason2>.

You argue that BSW is mafia because <reason2> is insubstantial in proving <statement1>. Which, compared to some of your more egregious illogical attacks this game, almost isn’t even worth attacking.

<reason1> is insubstantial in the first place.

Not anymore insubstantial than your "case" on Emp.

[Appassionata]

Appassionata:
Did you accept SC’s explanation of how BSW used WIFOM? To you, how does BSW compare to Natirasha or SC?

I agree with SC that BSW's use of WIFOM is suspicious, and I think that BSW is much more suspicious than Natarisha and SC. To be honest, I don't really honest half of what Natarisha did.

But throughout the whole game so far, BSW has been doing things this way, so It may just be the way she posts, but it seems anti-town.

[chenhsi]

Sorry for not posting, I was studying for finals and only coming back a minute per day to check for PMs.

Rereading.

[yorgi]

I'm a bit busy today. But I saw this:

yorgi:
What do you think about Appassionata, independent of BSW? What are you currently thinking about SC? And anything to say about this?

afatchic [182] wrote:
My thoughts on BSW is that if she is scum, 1 of the two people she is accusing of being scum is her scum buddy. Therefore if we followed her, she would bus one scum, somewhat clearing her, and then cause a mislynch later.

I don't believe Appassionata has said much of anything. I think he needs to speak out more. I understand his confusion on BSW comment as it's just really guessing more then scum hunting. I don't mind people putting there thoughts on what would I do if I were mafia, but not everyone does a typical mafia thing.
I have no clue why afatchic would believe that BSW is outing a scum buddy. That makes no sense. Where did the conclusion come from?
No opinion on SC right now. Sorry.

[BlondeSoWut]

Emp, I really really really really want to win! Thats why Im playing! So Im trying to find out whos in the mafia. I think its App so I said that and I said why. I know I might die so incase I do, I said Yorgi could be in the mafia with App. I really am trying. I dont know wut more you want from me. I said who I think is in the mafia. I voted for him. I said why. I answered questions. Now people are voting for me. I dont get it.

[StrangerCoug]

BlondeSoWut, acting like you're a paranoid person on caffeine isn't helping the case on you any.

[afatchic]

I have no clue why afatchic would believe that BSW is outing a scum buddy. That makes no sense. Where did the conclusion come from?

If she is scum, i could easily see this as bussing, knowing it will never go through.

[Appassionata]

Emp, I really really really really want to win! Thats why Im playing! So Im trying to find out whos in the mafia. I think its App so I said that and I said why. I know I might die so incase I do, I said Yorgi could be in the mafia with App. I really am trying. I dont know wut more you want from me. I said who I think is in the mafia. I voted for him. I said why. I answered questions. Now people are voting for me. I dont get it.

You sound really stupid, and annoying.

Vote: BSW