Mini Normal 2323 [There is an Inventor] | FIN

[biancospino]

votecount

Votecount 2-XI

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to hammer.

Dannflor (4 = E-2):

ssbm_Kyouko, Katsuki,
JacksonVirgo, camelCasedSnivy

Black (1):

Gamma Emerald

JacksonVirgo (1):

Dannflor

Thomith (1):

Black

camelCasedSnivy (1):

Hu Tao

Not Voting (3):

KittyTacky, davesaz, Thomith

notes

• The deadline is due in (expired on 2024-01-15 23:15:09).
  
• You can find the combined mod ISO here

[Dannflor]

Actually I think that 778 is the first town indicative post in kyouko's whole ISO, not that I think that kyouko is scummy their posts just aren't AI

but I'm seeing a Kitty Tacky / kyouko team forming in front of me

[Dannflor]

it means i keep enjoying your posts but thus far your alignment is an elusive puddle of grey goo

Is there anything I can do/answer to help you figure out a read on me?

idk like take some stances on the game? or try to work out what you're thinking in thread?

im reading you like a passive bystander

[Dannflor]

I guess I think JV is more likely to be town after catching up

[Dannflor]

QUICK JV

GUN TO HEAD WHAT ARE THE ALIGNMENTS OF KATSUKI AND BLACK

[Thomith]

JacksonVirgo
Dannflor

Black
Gamma Emerald

ssbm_kyouko

Katsuki
KittyTacky
Hu Tao

davesaz
camelCasedSnivy

[Thomith]

Maybe.
Bottom 3 tiers are kinda flexible right now in my mind I think.

[Thomith]

QUICK JV

GUN TO HEAD WHAT ARE THE ALIGNMENTS OF KATSUKI AND BLACK

I realise I probably could have waited for this before posting reads. Oops.

[Dannflor]

can you elaborate on your bottom 2

[Thomith]

I guess just your Katsuki read then

Yes but it may take me a little bit to consolidate how I'm feeling into a post because I'm still at work for a little bit.

Can you also go over your Dave read a little when you get around to it? I think I'm townreading him tonally so I'm curious what you see there

Three things pinged me early

1) Mentioning the Juggernaut claim - again, I do genuinely feel as if there is at least one scum in the group of people that even subtly shaded Katsuki for this, this is especially true if she ends up flipping town.
2) Mentioning that if we weren't told there were werewolves in this game, that he would suspect me for knowing there were werewolves - I don't see the point of mentioning this at all, and it almost feels like somebody who is trying to look like they are contributing, while not really saying much.
3) The Gamma Rhyming thing - while on a reread, I do concede that dave never outright called Gamma scummy for this, I still do think he was subtly shading it here, saying things such as people that rely on Gamma's posting to read its tone, while not outright scumreading, is still throwing shade on the slot imo, and on something that I think is easy to jump on/shade, where it seems, at least to me, to be something that is NAI. (Also I'm not convinced that 408 is not dave saying he suspects Gamma tbh, but he claims this isn't the case so i'll believe him).

Posts like 216 251 and 252 again, feel like appearing to be active, while not saying a whole lot.

Granted, this was early on, and I do agree that dave has picked up later on in the day, but these early pings still haven't really gone away for me yet - I feel like there is a world where he could be scum finding his groove, and posting better as the day went on.

This explains my initial ping on dave, and I feel like he hasn't done that much in his posting after this to make me feel any better about him.
He has reasons for things, but posts such as 1054 and 1060 and 1157 seem to almost feel like explanations are being given because it's expected?

I feel lost so ima sheep a town read

VOTE: CCS

which townread was it? if it was black you could join us now

*and if its gamma emerald ill sheep you on ssbm_kyouko

Knowing now that Naerys was town, I dislike these posts more than I already did.
VOTE: cCS

dave is actually a player I probably trust more out of the votes on Naerys

Same

I feel lost so ima sheep a town read

VOTE: CCS

which townread was it? if it was black you could join us now

*and if its gamma emerald ill sheep you on ssbm_kyouko

Knowing now that Naerys was town, I dislike these posts more than I already did.
VOTE: cCS

I think Snivy is scummy for other reasons but I don't really think recruiting others to his cause is all that scummy

It is when he is namedropping others as reasons to join the cause.

Feels like he could be doing that so you or Gamma took the fall if Naerys/Kyouko flipped town? That might be tinfoil tbh though, just got a weird vibe from those posts.

While Black has a point about CCS Mentioning those names because I was townreading Black and Gamma at the time, to me thay whole thing felt awkward, almost trying to remove himself from the decision making completely, by throwing out 2 other names (3 if you include me) other than himself that can be blamed if a wagon flips town.

[Black]

@Dann these were a few posts that made me go hmmmm

it's probably moot anyway i think im town reading you so whatever

I think this could come from scum but I feel like if you were scum then you would probably just let me answer before you conceded the point

You can focus me, I just hope you understand why it makes me even more paranoid that I'm right about you

i know challenging you makes you go super tunnel OMGUS mode as town Black

i feel like I know you well enough that I could play to pocket you as scum pretty well here black

The way you address me here feels similar to the way you have addressed me in other games recently where I was wrong about you and tunneling a bit, specifically Ausuka's game. It feels like you are giving me a stern talking to in attempt to show me I'm wrong. I think you could probably recreate this as scum but I'm not sure if it would seem as natural as it does here

k im gonna truncate this because i gotta log off for the evening, i'll come back tomorrow to read more and give final reads and such.

right now having skimmed through about half the game

black - gun to head town. I don't feel 100% about this read yet but I think there's enough content in this game that I can get there one way or another. I would like to case this for katsuki if i have time

gamma - she's got that little private investigator vibe where she's running around checking out leads and getting people to check out pocket reads. i think this is town!gamma. lower confidence than black but another slot that I think I can get a very accurate read on given time.

CCS - i think ccs actually shows a lot more life and want to solve in his posts than in his scum games. i have found that CCS as scum generally picks like... a bit, then makes that his defining thing to morph his gameplay around. eg. defending Khaos in that mini Gamma mentioned, or defending Gob in Secrets of the Anuket Topaz. his play is much more varied here and doesn't yet seem to be pursuing a particular purpose

katsuki - more of a mixed read. as I'm reading more I'm concerned about how static their reads are. it seems like dragon/black as scum has been their solve since early d1 and even the flip of naerys didn't shake them at all. but ive been tonally town reading their posts and their interactions with black?

davesaz - someone, i think black mentioned how dave felt stiff this game. tbh, i kind of always read dave as stiff (sorry dave), but he's been considerably looser than the baseline i have for dave in my head in this game? idk he just seems more relaxed. I would lean this town at the moment.

uhhhh there's a bunch of other slots i don't really have thoughts on yet

hu tao i think is scummy. she is taking things at face value i wouldn't expect her to as town and generally playing a more LAMIST game than I have come to expect from her.

celebloki/jackson virgo - celebloki had some very awful early posts, and I have not liked the little bit of JV I've read. their weird dancing / soft defense / soft suspicion of my slot just reads exactly how I'm expecting scum to be playing around my slot, and fits the MO of where I think scum are likely to be positioning if black and katsuki are indeed TvT

I just like this post a lot

None of these are like super towntells but reading them in short succession made me doubt my read

[Thomith]

How well do you know Danns play Black?
Is there a world where he's catering to you so you TR him?

[Black]

I will say I like some of Gamma's solving here

So maybe off-wagon scum is JV or Thomith

Do you think I'm playing differently to the Micro?

I felt like you were asking way more questions here. Like empty questions with no interest in a follow up. I just looked over your ISO in that game and I'm seeing a lot of the same questions. So I think there are more similarities between the two games than I originally thought

I don't really think this makes you town though. I think my read is similar to Dann's where I think you could go either way

[Black]

How well do you know Danns play Black?
Is there a world where he's catering to you so you TR him?

Yes, that world is possible

If Dann is town then I want him around. He's one of the best players on the site imo

I think if he's town then Mafia's best move is to either NK him before he solves the game or leave him alive to strike deepwolf fear into us. But the longer they leave him alive, the more likely he'll produce something that just wins us the game anyway

If he's scum then we have to cross that bridge eventually but because he's so good at being town, I think dealing with him later is a better option

[Black]

While Black has a point about CCS Mentioning those names because I was townreading Black and Gamma at the time, to me thay whole thing felt awkward, almost trying to remove himself from the decision making completely, by throwing out 2 other names (3 if you include me) other than himself that can be blamed if a wagon flips town

Is this the only reason you scumread Snivy?

[Thomith]

While Black has a point about CCS Mentioning those names because I was townreading Black and Gamma at the time, to me thay whole thing felt awkward, almost trying to remove himself from the decision making completely, by throwing out 2 other names (3 if you include me) other than himself that can be blamed if a wagon flips town

Is this the only reason you scumread Snivy?

It's the main reason.
The rest of their posting also feels like how I used to play as scum which is what is also pinging me too - looking like you are contributing, but in reality not being the main person pushing things through so other people take the heat.
I also don't know if I like the jumping around on the Dann wagon either.

[Black]

The rest of their posting also feels like how I used to play as scum which is what is also pinging me too - looking like you are contributing, but in reality not being the main person pushing things through so other people take the heat

A little self-meta question here but what do you think the main difference between your town and scum game is?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also

@Gamma

, off topic but that quote you got in your sig. Do you have it there cuz you like the quote or you like the person too? Cuz I felt that quote was so good so I looked up more of her stuff and

I think the quote is one I need to keep in mind a lot. I’m not on board with all of her other ideas.

[Thomith]

The rest of their posting also feels like how I used to play as scum which is what is also pinging me too - looking like you are contributing, but in reality not being the main person pushing things through so other people take the heat

A little self-meta question here but what do you think the main difference between your town and scum game is?

It's been a long ass time since I rolled scum so the completely honest answer is I don't know confidently anymore.

From what I do remember, I feel like I am a lot more confident in my reads as scum, mainly because obviously I had more information, whereas as Town, I'm less likely to fully commit to a read in fear of being wrong. (the fear of being wrong is still prevalent I've found since I've returned, maybe I just need to start full sending reads with false confidence until they gradually start improving). I tended to try to avoid being the sole person reading someone a certain way to prevent how much I stood out, so I at the very least had to 1v1 with someone should a read on a certain player end up being suspicious.

I also hard bussed at least one scum member way too fucking much

I remember preferring multiball scum games, because I found it easier to make my reads look genuine, because I could genuinely be scumhunting for the other scumteam.

Granted I know this kind of makes me look bad here, but I know I used to try and buddy up to the early wagons a lot as scum so I'd look like the person that was arguing against a bad wagon if a townie flipped Day 1 or 2. As town, while I will state if i disagree with a wagon, I'm more inclined to let a townread get limmed, rather than hard defend them to the bitter end early on, because 1) I could be wrong and 2) we still get information from a green flip.

I also used to cater my scumgame to anyone I recognised in the game, and would try and mimic a town game I had with them to try and get someone to town read me, but I got caught out for doing this a few times so tried to stop (I think Hard Boiled is a game where this happened - somebody alt-slipped, and I had played with their alt before, so I basically blatantly changed how I was posting to mimic the town game and got called out for it )

I don't know how well that answers your question but here you go.

[Gamma Emerald]

To clarify, I'm not town-reading you by any means I just feel I have to re-center myself and see where I stand

Then I'm wrong about you being tunnelled.

Just more curious than anything but what would you consider the difference between a tunnel and just pushing somebody hard

The difference imo is hard pushing you are willing to see other opinions, or admit you are wrong if other information becomes available, whereas if you are tunnelled, you either dont have many hard reasons for suspecting someone, but do anyway (this was why I said I think I could be tunnelled on Hu Tao), or are not likely to see anything townie a player is doing as enough to get you to stop pushing them.

I had a habit of hard tunneling a read and then flipping it all at once. I’ve always felt it a boon since I get pocketed easily at times, but I have probably improved my ability to hold doubt on townreads to prevent pockets from getting too deep, so I think that habit has died out.

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like I’m short on scumreads I feel good about so I’m going to write out reasons for slots to be scum and see what holds water
This is not an immediate action I’m taking, just a pin I’m putting down to make sure this happens

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma - she's got that little private investigator vibe where she's running around checking out leads and getting people to check out pocket reads. i think this is town!gamma. lower confidence than black but another slot that I think I can get a very accurate read on given time.

Which posts give this vibe?

[Gamma Emerald]

My last 2 posts are unrelated currently

[Gamma Emerald]

JacksonVirgo
Dannflor

Black
Gamma Emerald

ssbm_kyouko

Katsuki
KittyTacky
Hu Tao

davesaz
camelCasedSnivy

You think all scum were on the Naerys lim?

[Thomith]

The rest of their posting also feels like how I used to play as scum which is what is also pinging me too - looking like you are contributing, but in reality not being the main person pushing things through so other people take the heat

A little self-meta question here but what do you think the main difference between your town and scum game is?

It's been a long ass time since I rolled scum so the completely honest answer is I don't know confidently anymore.

From what I do remember, I feel like I am a lot more confident in my reads as scum, mainly because obviously I had more information, whereas as Town, I'm less likely to fully commit to a read in fear of being wrong. (the fear of being wrong is still prevalent I've found since I've returned, maybe I just need to start full sending reads with false confidence until they gradually start improving). I tended to try to avoid being the sole person reading someone a certain way to prevent how much I stood out, so I at the very least had to 1v1 with someone should a read on a certain player end up being suspicious.

I also hard bussed at least one scum member way too fucking much

I remember preferring multiball scum games, because I found it easier to make my reads look genuine, because I could genuinely be scumhunting for the other scumteam.

Granted I know this kind of makes me look bad here, but I know I used to try and buddy up to the early wagons a lot as scum so I'd look like the person that was arguing against a bad wagon if a townie flipped Day 1 or 2. As town, while I will state if i disagree with a wagon, I'm more inclined to let a townread get limmed, rather than hard defend them to the bitter end early on, because 1) I could be wrong and 2) we still get information from a green flip.

I also used to cater my scumgame to anyone I recognised in the game, and would try and mimic a town game I had with them to try and get someone to town read me, but I got caught out for doing this a few times so tried to stop (I think Hard Boiled is a game where this happened - somebody alt-slipped, and I had played with their alt before, so I basically blatantly changed how I was posting to mimic the town game and got called out for it )

I don't know how well that answers your question but here you go.

Oh!
I do know this from my difference in crewmate and impostor play from among us which I feel like would also probably apply here.
When I'm crewmate I tend to throw out theories or just say things and see what sticks, whereas as impostor I'm more careful with what I share and when.
I feel like this did kind of link back to playing Mafia here, where I tend to worry about my posting more as Mafia than I do as town.