Mini Normal 2323 [There is an Inventor] | FIN

[biancospino]

votecount

Votecount 2-XV

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to hammer.

Dannflor (4 = E-2):

ssbm_Kyouko, Katsuki,
JacksonVirgo, camelCasedSnivy

camelCasedSnivy (2):

Thomith, Gamma Emerald

Thomith (2):

Dannflor, Black

Gamma Emerald (1):

Hu Tao

Not Voting (2):

KittyTacky, davesaz

notes

• The deadline is due in (expired on 2024-01-15 23:15:09).
  
• You can find the combined mod ISO here
  
• KittyTacky is being replaced.

[JacksonVirgo]

czscwad

[JacksonVirgo]

Damn tried sniping that

[Black]

czscwad

Scummiest post of the game

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Naerys
Time is too short to do much thumb twiddling. We need to make some kind of progress at generating higher wagon numbers so at least that will be available.

Ngl this vote bothers me: there was like 48 hours left at this point? And why Naerys?

[Dannflor]

I could vote davesaz but I'm less interested in wagoning someone who isn't active

[Gamma Emerald]

Thinking on it, my issue with how Hu Tao engages me specifically is twofold: she seems to form a read on very little evidence and rarely shift from that initial read, which would not be extremely aggravating if they didn’t end up scumreading me a majority of the time.

[Black]

Thinking on it, my issue with how Hu Tao engages me specifically is twofold: she seems to form a read on very little evidence and rarely shift from that initial read, which would not be extremely aggravating if they didn’t end up scumreading me a majority of the time.

Do you not think Katsuki is doing the exact same thing though? Her reads are the most static out of anyone in the game

Or do you just not have an issue with her when she does it because she townreads you

[Thomith]

I think that's 2 people now that said they wanted to vote Dragon but didn't because he was already at E-2.
The fact he has enough people wanting to vote him to hammer already is giving me pause.

I feel like he's either getting hard bussed, or this is a townie scum want out of the game.

I feel like there's probably at least 1 scum on him right now either way.

idk i don't like the number of posts defending my slot because of the amount of consensus and/or speed of the wagon

I think it's pretty natural for town who see their town reads being run up to want to defend them, but they usually have play arguments to defend with

all thomith seems to use is wagonomics and I don't really see anything in their posts that reads like they are really trying to *convince* anyone of their town read on me - despite having me as their top town read?

It even kinda seems like they are trying to talk Black out of their about face on me, which is really weird from someone who, again, already has me as their top town read

it reads like they want my wagon to go through by want to keep their hands clean and that's the position I'd most expect scum to take up with how this day phase has unfolded

Looking back and I legitimately did think I explained why I thought you were town but it doesn't look like I actually did so here goes.

I do think you are genuinely trying to solve - your progressions seem genuine and you seemed to be posting like you were spewing your thoughts, which to me feels like it would be hard to fake? Even if some of your posts aren't explained at the time (such as 1398), when questioned on them the answer again feels as if you are trying to solve.

I don't see scum questioning someones TR of them like Dann did in 1630, and probably would just let it ride?
Posts similar to 1631 also read as genuine - as scum I also feel like you'd be more likely to try and pushing something more convincing through, but knowing the limits of this also felt real.

also just in general i get the most feeling of

null / emptiness reading thomith's posts versus anyone else in the game

like they aren't trying to step on too many toes

I explained this a bit in the self-meta, but I'm not super confident as Town, so me "trying not to step on toes" is because I'm generally just not super confident on reads to try and prove/disprove someone. It is an issue I have as Town which I do want to try and improve on.

Since it seems like people are convinced there is a scum in the 4 off-wagon, and also seem convinced that the scum is probably me, me getting faded today isn't the worst thing, as me flipping green will force people to reassess this read, which might open up the game more to other people being discussed that isn't just Me/Dann/CCS/Gamma/JV.

[Thomith]

I think we need to start looking into why it took so long for us to get any kind of answer about why there "has" to be someone off Naerys wagon as scum, and then the answer that was given seemed to boil down to "because there has to be"

Depending on how some of the people off wagon start flipping, I feel like there's a world where this is a scum rhetoric to get focus off of the wagon.
Thinking about it, it could just be as simple as the scum off wagon are more TR than the scum on wagon, which may be why focus was pushed there?

[Black]

I don't remember anyone not explaining why they think scum might be off the wagon, and I also don't remember anyone saying scum HAS to be off the wagon

The whole "scum off wagon" thing started with me. I just felt like it wasn't super likely that all three scum were on the wagon, and at the time I was townreading a lot of people on it. Trying to solve within 4 people felt like a good idea to me but I never said we should only focus on them today

[Black]

Mafia is hard and I think finding one scum in a group of four makes it a little easier. I realize that I could be wrong and that all three scum could be on the wagon

[Thomith]

I don't remember anyone not explaining why they think scum might be off the wagon, and I also don't remember anyone saying scum HAS to be off the wagon

The whole "scum off wagon" thing started with me. I just felt like it wasn't super likely that all three scum were on the wagon, and at the time I was townreading a lot of people on it. Trying to solve within 4 people felt like a good idea to me but I never said we should only focus on them today

I do remember you explaining it linking with your TR's which is at least something, but it felt like every other answer boiled down to either just not thinking all 3 scum were on the wagon with no further explanation, or just no response when people were questioning it.

[Thomith]

Mafia is hard and I think finding one scum in a group of four makes it a little easier. I realize that I could be wrong and that all three scum could be on the wagon

Again, this is fair. I'm saying this knowing I am town, and thinking that the other 3 people off the wagon are town too, so I understand my viewpoint is biased on the matter.

[Black]

That's all it is really, just not thinking all 3 scum would risk voting together on a misfade. I don't think it's super common. I know Dann linked a game but I feel like that's the exception, not the rule. I'm willing to admit I'm wrong here if anyone has more compelling evidence. I've only been playing for a year

[Black]

JacksonVirgo
Dannflor

Black
Gamma Emerald

ssbm_kyouko

Katsuki
KittyTacky
Hu Tao

davesaz
camelCasedSnivy

You think all scum were on the Naerys lim?

I honestly didn't take that into consideration when making this list, so should probably rethink some of this lost now you've pointed that out.

Was this a real thought? If you don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on the wagon then why did you post this?

[Thomith]

JacksonVirgo
Dannflor

Black
Gamma Emerald

ssbm_kyouko

Katsuki
KittyTacky
Hu Tao

davesaz
camelCasedSnivy

You think all scum were on the Naerys lim?

I honestly didn't take that into consideration when making this list, so should probably rethink some of this lost now you've pointed that out.

Was this a real thought? If you don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on the wagon then why did you post this?

It was a real thought, it was as simple as I just didn't take it into consideration when making the list.

It's not that I don't think it's unlikely, I just see a world where the narrative where all 3 scum couldn't have been on the wagon could be a narrative potentially spread by scum, simply because of how it was almost taken as a fact, with only really you giving anything more to the argument (by you saying you TR enough of the people on-wagon to suspect not all scum were there).

[Thomith]

JacksonVirgo
Dannflor

Black
Gamma Emerald

ssbm_kyouko

Katsuki
KittyTacky
Hu Tao

davesaz
camelCasedSnivy

You think all scum were on the Naerys lim?

I honestly didn't take that into consideration when making this list, so should probably rethink some of this lost now you've pointed that out.

Was this a real thought? If you don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on the wagon then why did you post this?

It was a real thought, it was as simple as I just didn't take it into consideration when making the list.

It's not that I don't think it's unlikely,

I just see a world where the narrative where all 3 scum couldn't have been on the wagon could be a narrative potentially spread by scum, simply because of how it was almost taken as a fact

, with only really you giving anything more to the argument (by you saying you TR enough of the people on-wagon to suspect not all scum were there).

The bolded being a new revelation today.

[Black]

It's not that I don't think it's unlikely, I just see a world where the narrative where all 3 scum couldn't have been on the wagon could be a narrative potentially spread by scum, simply because of how it was almost taken as a fact, with only really you giving anything more to the argument (by you saying you TR enough of the people on-wagon to suspect not all scum were there).

No one said all three scum

can't

be on the wagon though. And iirc is was just me, kyouko, and Gamma saying that we didn't think it was likely? I could be misremembering here and my lunch break is over in 1 minutes so I can't really go look

[Thomith]

JacksonVirgo
Dannflor

Black
Gamma Emerald

ssbm_kyouko

Katsuki
KittyTacky
Hu Tao

davesaz
camelCasedSnivy

You think all scum were on the Naerys lim?

I still wanna know what is the deal with the obsession over being off-wagon, I asked before and nobody answered. I don't understand it9

I feel like it's been mentioned a couple of times at least - doesn't seem like there would be 3 scum on Naerys, therefore 1 or 2 should be off wagon

While not outright saying they can't be, the above two posts seem pretty close in my opinion.

[Thomith]

Kyouko's more than Gamma's granted, but I feel like a narrative can be pushed without people saying something has to be true?

[Black]

I'm curious if you considered that two of your top townreads and a null read were the ones that proposed this theory. Does this make you feel worse about us?

[Thomith]

I'm curious if you considered that two of your top townreads and a null read were the ones that proposed this theory. Does this make you feel worse about us?

It in all honesty depends how the 4 off wagon start flipping (I know how counter-intuitive this sounds to what I'm saying), if it does end up obvious that the 4 off wagon are likely town, then yes, it would.
Right now, I am aware I may be tinfoiling.

[Black]

I kinda like that you're tinfoiling about this. I had a thought a day or two ago about kyouko maybe echoing my theory because she wanted to divert attention from the wagon so I get it

[Black]

VOTE: kyouko

Thomith do you want to help me wagon this?