Mini 692: Boost Mafia (Game Over!)

[Jahudo]

Jahudo, you should most definitely vote yourself to avoid getting us a no lynch, as well as claiming.

Good advice, but I'll do this instead. And you say claim, Guardian says it doesn't matter. Any other opinions?

Vote: Huntress

[sthar8]

Part two of three, wherein I address some things specifically directed at me since my last real post.

So telling you that a player I originally thought possible scum now gives me a townie feel after a more focused read is giving you zero information is it?

Perhaps I was a bit harsh. What I meant is that telling us that your read has changed, without substantiating the original read

or

the new one, gives us no information useful to our most important current objective of lynching scum. Excepting, of course, the information that you are playing in an anti-town fashion and are therefore likely scum yourself.

If you wanted me to expand on it you only had to ask. And if you had rather I hadn't said it at all ...

Are you a corn farmer?

I've already addressed in iLord's case why it is anti-town to attempt to place the burden of requesting information on the town.

Waaay to take things out of context! Go back and look at the original posts. I'd quote them here but I realised that would be falling for your diversion tactics.

What? You made the case on electra, you were the one trying to get her killed. You brought all of that up, not me. And I don't see what I've taken out of context.

By the way, what "diversion tactics"? What am I "diverting," from what, and onto what?

I'm pretty sure thats a buzzword appeal to paranoia, an indirect way of saying "you can't trust his arguments, he's screwing with your mind!" I'm also pretty sure that any halfway decent mafia player is going to consider arguments on merit and content independant of source, since scum occaisionally tell the truth to look more townie. Accusing me of being scum as an ad hom is a fallacy; the merits of an argument may be indicative of alignment, but the reverse is not true.

Pardon?

You had stated that part of your reasoning for wasting time on the electra case was to make sure that the town saw your opinions, but here you say that you aren't going to give us your opinion on others because whatever you wanted to say had already been said. That leaves town with no clues as to your opinions on those players, which is directly contradictory to your other stated policies. This kind of double standard is highly indicative of scum who fabricate explanations to fit their other agenda.

I think 'ad hom' is a misnomer here

Then you are misdefining ad hom. An ad hominem attack does not have to be

personal

, it has to be against the

person

. The set of all ad hom strategies does include ad personam attacks, but the set spaces are not equal.

The fact is that since I began attacking you, you've been attempting to portray my actions as scummy in a vague and nonspecific way, without committing to any accusation. If you don't find me scummy, then why are you trying to cast doubt on my motives? And if you do, which seems to be the case based on the logical fallacies you've directed at me, then why haven't you pointed the finger or made a case? Why are you benig so vague?

The emphasis was Eldarad's, not mine.

And I'm saying that Crazy actually did say at one point that he agreed with EVERYTHING eldarad had said.

Why is voting and then promising a case later scummy?

Because it allows you to gauge responses before committing to the case. Because it requires the town to guess about your reasoning and motives. Because it could be an attempt to shift attention, in the same way I believe Crazy's "coughpressure" was intended to. Because it might bait a townie into making their own case that you can leech off of.

We are in an extreme time crunch.

sthar8, your vote to Jahudo if you will.

Electra, yours as well.

Jahudo's at L-2 right now.

Wow, you're scummy.

28 hours is plenty of time, and huntress is at L-3 to Jahudo's L-2.


Part 3 to come.

[Green Crayons]

I've been checking in and out so don't think I up and vanished.

I'm waiting for Huntress to respond to my post. Hope it's a killer of an explanation.

Guardian, re: post 672, how were those quotes taken out of context? I find it hard to see how you coming back to "read the game more" equates to a total of 7 or 8 minutes spent skimming three different people. That's less than 3 minutes spent per person skimming. Hardly an in-depth read, and if this is what qualifies as reading more than what you have been doing, I have serious doubts as to the weight any of us should give any of your "changed"/refined reads.

I think iLord's most recent post (674) is exceptionally odd not because it's a push for a Jahudo lynch but rather a push for a not-Huntress lynch. He asks only two people to vote for Jahudo and of those (random?) two they're both on the Huntress wagon.

I'm not to fond of Jahudo asking the town's permission re: 675.

[Incognito]

thx for straw-maning me by taking those posts out of context.

How are those posts being taken out of context? In the first quote you pretty much just finished outlining a case against eldarad mentioning that both his posts from the very beginning of the game and then as of recent against iLord were "crap logic". You stated in that very same post that you didn't even

need

to read the rest of the thread because you're pretty sure the pattern would continue:

More craplogic. I mean I'd keep reading, but I am already convinced.

And now you have the

nerve

to say I'm being unfair because I called you out about it? You're kidding right? I'm

stunned

that you haven't been dogpiled yet.

In the second quote you just finished analyzing the case against Crazy/Huntress, just finished commenting on Jahudo, and then closed it out with an attempt to gain confirmation that your top suspect (eldarad) is still scum. Again, how is that out of context?

And now you've yet done another lightning fast reread again and suddenly the wagons (at least one of which YOU had been pushing) are "meh"?

Seriously, if you really are town here (which I doubt), can you at least consider the possibility that you're playing really badly?

[Incognito]

I agree with Green Crayons about Jahudo's 675. That's just plain weird.

[Jahudo]

I'm not to fond of Jahudo asking the town's permission re: 675.

I would claim if I got to L-1 and someone not on my wagon said they'd vote for me, but I wouldn't normally claim before that time. The problem is I might not have internet access if that were to happen right before the deadline tomorrow.

Similarly I'm voting for Huntress because it's the only other viable lynch now.

[iLord]

asdf

Because it allows you to gauge responses before committing to the case. Because it requires the town to guess about your reasoning and motives. Because it could be an attempt to shift attention, in the same way I believe Crazy's "coughpressure" was intended to. Because it might bait a townie into making their own case that you can leech off of.

Wouldn't you rather have someone post their opinions when they can, even if they don't have time for a case?

Wow, you're scummy.

28 hours is plenty of time, and huntress is at L-3 to Jahudo's L-2.

It'd be vice-versa if you changed your vote .

28 hours is not a lot of time.

How is that scummy? - I'm trying to engineer a Jahudo lynch before deadline.

I think iLord's most recent post (674) is exceptionally odd not because it's a push for a Jahudo lynch but rather a push for a not-Huntress lynch. He asks only two people to vote for Jahudo and of those (random?) two they're both on the Huntress wagon.

Make no mistake - that's a push for a Jahudo lynch.

I would claim if I got to L-1 and someone not on my wagon said they'd vote for me, but I wouldn't normally claim before that time. The problem is I might not have internet access if that were to happen right before the deadline tomorrow.

Similarly I'm voting for Huntress because it's the only other viable lynch now.

Exactly - since you won't be able to check, if we were to be able to get you lynched, then we wouldn't have your claim.

[Huntress]

No. I don't know whether it was or wasn't. We won't know that until your status is revealed.

I was asking for your OPINION.
Given that you are voting for me - and this is one of the 4 stated reasons you have given for your vote - I think it is reasonable that you tell the town whether YOU think I am lying about my reasons for boosting Electra.

I did give my opinion! My opinion is that I don't know. You were trying to imply that I accepted that you were being sincere. If I did that, why would I be trying to lynch you? It wouldn't make sense.

Nice how you avoided answering the question that causes your case to unravel. By not answering you manage to respond to the rest of my post with "N/A"

Your questions were based on a repetition of the false implication that I believed you.

As you haven't mentioned the other points in my post, can I assume that you accept them?

Yes, but townies sometimes do things that can be scum tells too.

Heh. So, given that you know that a townie can do that thing, explain how it is a scumtell against me.

I would have switched my vote to Incognito but that wagon seems to have been deserted too so I'll leave it on Eldarad for tonight and see what's happening in a few hours time. I'll look at the other posts in the morning.

[iLord]

Huntress, why cut it so close? Do you think eldarad can be lynched today?

[Huntress]

Not really, but Jahudo's the only other option at the moment and I don't want to put him too close to a hammer when I'm not around to react to a claim. Still not happy about voting for him anyway, but it would be better than a no-lynch.

[Jahudo]

We have 5 votes each.

Huntress (5) <- sthar8, Electra, eldarad, Green Crayons, Jahudo
Jahudo 5) <- Incognito, iLord, Guardian, TDC, Raging Rabbit
eldarad <- Huntress

Not voting: RandomGem.

RandomGem hasn’t posted since November 29 so he’s probably flaked. Huntress is the tie-breaker. If it might change some minds in 24 hours, I might as well claim:

Without a boost I’m vanilla town, I don’t do anything at night.
With a boost I can give someone pearls of wisdom.

I guess I would be given clarification on what that did if I got the chance to use it but my guess is that it’s like mason talk.

[Elmo]

Day 1, Vote Count #21

Huntress (5) <- sthar8, Electra, eldarad, Green Crayons, Jahudo
Jahudo (5) <- Incognito, iLord, Guardian, TDC, Raging Rabbit
eldarad <- Huntress

Not voting: RandomGem.

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch. The

deadline

is Thursday, 18 December 2008, 06:00 UTC, which is 1 day, 1 hour, and 14 minutes from this post. RandomGem's prod has still not been picked up; Patrick has been contacting someone about replacing in, no word yet. Deadline will not be extended to replace him.

[Guardian]

Incog, I

am

playing badly.

I got busy with exams, then instead of catching up I got addicted to World of Warcraft.

I think that attacking people based on evidence you have and being confident when you are doing so is fine, and I stand by that.

But I think that i have not caught up nearly to the extent that I would have liked, which is a very necessary follow through to the above. Also, some of my reasons were flatly wrong, mostly due to bad reading comprehension. I'm somewhat bored with the game/mafia in general which started before WoW and finals, and those two only added.

Also, to someone: I spent 7,8 minutes each, approximately. I didn't spend 2-3 minutes on each, that would be more shameful. The reading took me 45 minutes or so but I multitasked, I spent like 30 minutes actually reading, maybe a little less. Just as an fyi.

[Green Crayons]

Also, to someone: I spent 7,8 minutes each, approximately. I didn't spend 2-3 minutes on each, that would be more shameful. The reading took me 45 minutes or so but I multitasked, I spent like 30 minutes actually reading, maybe a little less. Just as an fyi.

I guess I'm "someone." I was just going off of what you originally said: "I spent 7-8 minutes skimming Huntress, Jahudo, eldarad." Just made it look like you were applying the whole 7-8 minutes to the board and of that time there was a split into three.

Make no mistake - that's a push for a Jahudo lynch.

Then why did you chose only two people to single out to have them vote Jahundo - and why those two specifically?

[Electra]

We have 5 votes each.

Huntress (5) <- sthar8, Electra, eldarad, Green Crayons, Jahudo
Jahudo 5) <- Incognito, iLord, Guardian, TDC, Raging Rabbit
eldarad <- Huntress

Not voting: RandomGem.

RandomGem hasn’t posted since November 29 so he’s probably flaked. Huntress is the tie-breaker. If it might change some minds in 24 hours, I might as well claim:

Without a boost I’m vanilla town, I don’t do anything at night.
With a boost I can give someone pearls of wisdom.

I guess I would be given clarification on what that did if I got the chance to use it but my guess is that it’s like mason talk.

Does it say in your role PM why you would be able to give pearls of wisdom to someone?

[Patrick]

icemanE replaces RandomGem.

Note that I'm posting this from work, and currently have no access at home. This might be sorted quickly, but if there's any delay on something, you guys know what's up.

[Incognito]

Jahudo, why would "pearls of wisdom" be mason talk?

[icemanE]

I'm not going to have time for a full reread before tomorrow, but I read the first few pages and the last couple of pages. My main point in any game is that there must be a lynch on day one. I have read the points against Jahudo and Huntress and would rather see Huntress lynched today than Jahudo.

vote: huntress

I got busy with exams, then instead of catching up I got addicted to World of Warcraft.

Lol. Reminds me of someone I know... me.

[Huntress]

It looks like it's time for me to claim.

I am pro-town and I can boost one player during the night. There was no role-name or title on my PM.

If I have to vote for Jahudo in order to get a lynch I will but I would very much prefer a lynch of Eldarad or Incognito. I think there are enough people posting regularly to get a lynch on one or the other before the deadline if you start moving your votes now. How about it?

[Electra]

unvote: Huntress

I'll believe it for now, although I can't see why Crazy would be bored with such a fun role. Can you boost yourself?

[Huntress]

No. It has to be another player. As for Crazy, I suspect it was the problem of keeping up with the long posts, rather than the role, that made him decide to leave.

[iLord]

adsfa

Without a boost I’m vanilla town, I don’t do anything at night.
With a boost I can give someone pearls of wisdom.

Very odd. Same vein as Electra, which completely throws my set-up speculation out of the window.

Nothing to sway me either way here.

Then why did you chose only two people to single out to have them vote Jahundo - and why those two specifically?

I don't think it was just two - I was getting everyone I could to vote for Jahudo.

I'm not going to have time for a full reread before tomorrow, but I read the first few pages and the last couple of pages. My main point in any game is that there must be a lynch on day one. I have read the points against Jahudo and Huntress and would rather see Huntress lynched today than Jahudo.

vote: huntress

I am pro-town and I can boost one player during the night. There was no role-name or title on my PM.

Boost during the night? Do they get to use any Boost powers that night? Or do they get them the next night?

--------------------------------------------------------

I definitely don't want to lynch Huntress now - let's lynch Jahudo!

[icemanE]

unvote - vote: Jahudo

[iLord]

unvote - vote: Jahudo

Huntress, vote Jahudo now?

As much as I would like getting Eldarad lynched, it's not going to happen. And the chances of Incognito getting lynched are slimmer still.

[eldarad]

I'm here.

Huntress' attitude towards Electra's claim is consistent with her role claim. There's so much I don't like about Huntress' play but...gah.

unvote
vote Jahudo