Mini Normal 2324: Fake Fantasy Facts | Postgame

[biancospino]

Votecount 2.03

Day 2 will end in (expired on 2024-01-22 03:32:58).
Combined mod ISO.

Votecount

Upwards (1):

Gypyx

Prince of Paterson (1):

DeltaWave

Mucho Man Randy Passion (1):

Enchant

Not Voting (7):

Upwards, Hu Tao, Naerys, lucca261, Laplacian, Prince of Paterson, Mucho Man Randy Passion

With 10 alive, it takes 6 votes to throw someone to the lions.

Flavor

Elf Fact #3:

About

Elfis Speluncae

, an order of Elves vulgarly known as

Dark Elves

, very little is known, other than they live in deep, complex cave systems. Further scientific research is dampened by the fact that biologists attempting to enter their abode tend to mysteriously disappear.

[DeltaWave]

I think we should find the scum that was on gamma. So I think we vote delta or upward

Upward is high up on my scum list so I'm down for that. Probably shouldn't vote delta though.

[Laplacian]

jfc this took forever why did I look at every iso

Towny:

MMRP

- Took the time to go through the game in detail, fun gimmick & vibes. Despite the theatrics, has good introspection and analysis. As I said earlier, 908, 939, and 941 are all good.

HT

- Good vibes overall, flippant but tries to push the game along early with 101 and 108. Engages with a ton of people. 894, quickhammer play is a great trick. There's no definitive "this is 100% town" post here, just good vibes and moves, and so probably my softest town read.

Lucca

- Logical approaches (863, 945), admits mistakes (769), asks some probing questions. I like how they caution the newbie in (222) and try to engage with them a bit more. Early case on Margot, and good interactions with FD and Clap. Chad rebuttal in 375 cinches townie for me.

Naerys

- haha vigi go bang

The Neutral Zone:

ZBD/PoP

- ZBD's posts felt cautious, with posts like 403 being more observations over reads and the popping off the GE wagon. However, PoP's 963 matches my feelings & observations really well. Thus, annoyingly still null.

Gypyx

- Day 1 is good overall; a casual tone that leads into more probing questions. Starting a solid wagon on Margot D1 completely unprompted seems towny with Margot's flip. However, it's a weird how she flip-flops on Upward's 91, from immediately giving advice in 92 to calling him "fabricated" (185) and not genuine (199). While I agree with those reads, it's an odd change. She's also cast many aspersions on me, making up motivations whole-cloth. Could be scum pushing me, could be a total vibe mismatch. Either way, enough ambiguity for me to leave her in neutral.

Scummy:

Upwards

- Basically the same thoughts as everyone else. Overwrought intro in 91, bad chess metaphor & analysis in 333 and 356 that are incongruous with the otherwise logical approach. Oddly defensive in 931 after a mediocre ToS style post. Some good posts though; I like 238 and 361. After this reread, my softest scumread and some of this seems like common ESL tone issues. But it's not day 1 anymore so they're free for the voting!

Enchant

- Enchant's votes come with no real reads (792, 944). FuDuzn was suspicious of Alianna, calling them "trying to seem genuine, yet somehow seem fake" (131). Most egregious, I can't see any world where town posts a large-font, bolded, "Silence" instead of encouraging communication (918).

Deltawave

- Some strange knowledge / phrasing gaps for having 3k posts (55, 968, and especially 619). 264 is a really bad list, misreading both me and Lucca (with a vote based on said misread!) implies that they're trying to manufacture reasons instead of find them. Pushes to prolong the day when Margot is the lead vote candidate (332), giving time for the wagon to switch to GE.

[Laplacian]

I think we should find the scum that was on gamma. So I think we vote delta or upward

Was going to vote enchant after my list, but equally fine with this
VOTE: DeltaWave

[Prince of Paterson]

Enchant was also on Gamma.

[DeltaWave]

I think we should find the scum that was on gamma. So I think we vote delta or upward

Was going to vote enchant after my list, but equally fine with this
VOTE: DeltaWave

I'm not sure there could be any more obvious way to try to divert attention off yourself given the heat you've been getting today.

[Laplacian]

Enchant was also on Gamma.

True, and a really weird vote. I can absolutely see scum parking the vote on a townie before leaving, and then another scum pushing towards that wagon for a free vote. As far as I'm concerned, I've made the wagons I'll jump on abundantly clear

[Laplacian]

I think we should find the scum that was on gamma. So I think we vote delta or upward

Was going to vote enchant after my list, but equally fine with this
VOTE: DeltaWave

I'm not sure there could be any more obvious way to try to divert attention off yourself given the heat you've been getting today.

I'm sitting at 0 votes and you've been calling me town all day (823, 922). Not seeing much heat.

[DeltaWave]

It's just a lame vote is all

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

Actually, since were talking about @MUCHO MAN RANDY PASSION
What do you think about Enchant's CHALLENGE to you? Do they just want a good fight, or are they a HEEL who needs to be taken down?

It remains to be seen - obviously the timing coincides with me unvoting you, who he was previously voting. It feels like a challenge meant to PLACATE me with apparent PROACTIVITY, more than it feels like DOMINATING town with their eyes locked on tiny mafia. HOWEVER I will not let this DISTRACT me. I will OBSERVE him while I evaluate DW, PoP, and Uppercutwards

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

I like Randy's re-evaluation on Laplacian. I felt initially that she came in with an agenda of getting on the side of town leaders and orienting herself towards pushing out the LHF, because a lot of the conclusions seemed forced, but it seems like she's recognized that there isn't support for her previous level of confidence.

That could still come from skilled mafia who wants to gain points for looking thoughtful, but I like the development.

I also feel a little better about Delta, something about her most recent posts come off as uninformed.

Gypyx, I can answer your question about Upwards in a bit.

Relak my brother. I was OVER-EAGER to find tiny mafia Margot Rosa putting her tiny mafia friends in the middle spot of her reads again, and let this CLOUD my otherwise SERENE tiny-mafia-crushing mind.

My only AGENDA is to slam the tiny mafia into submission and toss them from the ring so the DOMINANT town can RISE to take the championship belt from tiny mafia's tiny grubby hands

[Prince of Paterson]

The way that Upwards is forming his reads and finding things to talk about reads far more like new town player struggling to find his footing in the game than new scum player trying to blend in or manufacture stances.

Some examples that stand out to me:
1) The focus on the situation surrounding Gamma nearing E-1 (Delta said she'd unvote if E-1, and Hu Tao said they'd hammer if E-1). He made several posts about this (462, 464, 466, 484, 532, 539, and there's a clear tone of frustration that nobody else finds this as compelling as he does. I don't think that tends to come from mafia. He wants people to listen to him because he thinks he's found something interesting.

2) Similarly, a bit earlier, his engagement with Gamma in 306, 333, and 356. Again, his point is a little off the wall, bringing up how it doesn't make sense to him that Gamma could see it beneficial to die early as scum. And again, there's some frustration at not having his point understood.

Together, these aren't how scum, particularly new scum, approach the game. The points are proactively made, show original and unique thought, and there's a distinct lack of self-consciousness: when faced with others disagreeing with or not understanding his point, he doubles down to try to make it understood, because it's something that he genuinely feels and is interested in, and he's frustrated that it isn't gaining traction. New scum are much more likely to fold on a point or follow the lead of others.

The best point for Upwards being scum is that Margot's read on him in 373 is awkwardly defensive while still having him at the bottom of her null reads. I agree that is a read that sounds partnered.

I don't think that lucca's point about Upwards' vote being the one to turn Gamma into a real counterwagon to Margot is very meaningful. It was page 12, there was always going to be another wagon that happened at some point. Being the 3rd vote on Gamma doesn't make him significantly more likely to be scum. Nor does lack of talking about Margot. Scum are aware that they partner is being run up and are self-conscious about how they appear in relation to it. If you want a better example of what that may look like, read Claptastik's ISO.

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

Left off on 977 with 2 SRs left to read

[DeltaWave]

Deltawave

- Some strange knowledge / phrasing gaps for having 3k posts (55, 968, and especially 619). 264 is a really bad list, misreading both me and Lucca (with a vote based on said misread!) implies that they're trying to manufacture reasons instead of find them. Pushes to prolong the day when Margot is the lead vote candidate (332), giving time for the wagon to switch to GE.

This annoys me so much because I think you're town but you're making an absolutely ridiculous argument here. I'm not sure what you mean by "knowledge / phrasing gaps" but relying on my post count is ridiculous. Most of my posts are probably in non-mafia discussions. This is my 2nd mafia game in about 7 years I think. Go count up how many games I've done, it's probably less than 15. I'm not even sure what you're trying to say with this.

I misinterpreted a post Lucca made and then I owned up to it immediately. I misread something, big deal.

Finally, I'm never going to advocate for a D1 to end that early. Hu expressed that he would quickhammer about 2 days into the game and I'm not going to support that no matter who was the target. Ending day 1 when we had like, 4 people who didn't contribute anything of substance at all is BAD. Why don't you shade anyone who jumped off the Margot wagon then? After all they must have known what the flip would be right? COME ON

[DeltaWave]

Also, by your logic, does my presence on the "Laplacian defense squad" make YOU scum?

[Laplacian]

Deltawave

- Some strange knowledge / phrasing gaps for having 3k posts (55, 968, and especially 619). 264 is a really bad list, misreading both me and Lucca (with a vote based on said misread!) implies that they're trying to manufacture reasons instead of find them. Pushes to prolong the day when Margot is the lead vote candidate (332), giving time for the wagon to switch to GE.

This annoys me so much because I think you're town but you're making an absolutely ridiculous argument here. I'm not sure what you mean by "knowledge / phrasing gaps" but relying on my post count is ridiculous. Most of my posts are probably in non-mafia discussions. This is my 2nd mafia game in about 7 years I think. Go count up how many games I've done, it's probably less than 15. I'm not even sure what you're trying to say with this.

Checked your profile, I'll cop to the post count misanalysis. My bad. As far as I can tell, PoP calling you "uninformed" was a town read - maf is informed, town is not. For 619, the math of hitting scum is the same even if you completely ignore a slot.

I do feel townier on you after that reaction though; felt genuine.

[Upwards]

Hey Lucca you still wanna vote out Upwards or like, what are we doing, strongly considering making a switch onto lapla, especially given how he kind of looks like he's giving up? That fits the mental trajectory i would expect from a scumteam who's in the rough of things

UNVOTE:

I'm rereading my ISO and zebedee/PoP to answer DW, and my Laplacian vote basically boils down to a couple of bad vibes and him being in the middle of the nulls on MR's list. Kinda arbitrary and WEAK - I managed to CONFIRMATIONALLY BIAS myself into voting Lap.

Now this makes for a read I’m pretty certain of: Gypyx and Mucho Man are very unlikely to be buddies after this.

[Laplacian]

The way that Upwards is forming his reads and finding things to talk about reads far more like new town player struggling to find his footing in the game than new scum player trying to blend in or manufacture stances.

Some examples that stand out to me:
1) The focus on the situation surrounding Gamma nearing E-1 (Delta said she'd unvote if E-1, and Hu Tao said they'd hammer if E-1). He made several posts about this (462, 464, 466, 484, 532, 539, and there's a clear tone of frustration that nobody else finds this as compelling as he does. I don't think that tends to come from mafia. He wants people to listen to him because he thinks he's found something interesting.

2) Similarly, a bit earlier, his engagement with Gamma in 306, 333, and 356. Again, his point is a little off the wall, bringing up how it doesn't make sense to him that Gamma could see it beneficial to die early as scum. And again, there's some frustration at not having his point understood.

Together, these aren't how scum, particularly new scum, approach the game. The points are proactively made, show original and unique thought, and there's a distinct lack of self-consciousness: when faced with others disagreeing with or not understanding his point, he doubles down to try to make it understood, because it's something that he genuinely feels and is interested in, and he's frustrated that it isn't gaining traction. New scum are much more likely to fold on a point or follow the lead of others.

The best point for Upwards being scum is that Margot's read on him in 373 is awkwardly defensive while still having him at the bottom of her null reads. I agree that is a read that sounds partnered.

I don't think that lucca's point about Upwards' vote being the one to turn Gamma into a real counterwagon to Margot is very meaningful. It was page 12, there was always going to be another wagon that happened at some point. Being the 3rd vote on Gamma doesn't make him significantly more likely to be scum. Nor does lack of talking about Margot. Scum are aware that they partner is being run up and are self-conscious about how they appear in relation to it. If you want a better example of what that may look like, read Claptastik's ISO.

This also feels valid. Can totally see frustration at a newbie trying to get their points understood, I've felt that too.

I seem to be having the trouble of day 1 thinking everyone was scum, and now being persuaded that everyone's town

[Laplacian]

In fact, now that there's some decent points against 2 of my scumreads, let's go back to my plan A.

VOTE: Enchant

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

jfc this took forever why did I look at every iso

Towny:

MMRP

- Took the time to go through the game in detail, fun gimmick & vibes. Despite the theatrics, has good introspection and analysis. As I said earlier, 908, 939, and 941 are all good.

HT

- Good vibes overall, flippant but tries to push the game along early with 101 and 108. Engages with a ton of people. 894, quickhammer play is a great trick. There's no definitive "this is 100% town" post here, just good vibes and moves, and so probably my softest town read.

Lucca

- Logical approaches (863, 945), admits mistakes (769), asks some probing questions. I like how they caution the newbie in (222) and try to engage with them a bit more. Early case on Margot, and good interactions with FD and Clap. Chad rebuttal in 375 cinches townie for me.

Naerys

- haha vigi go bang

The Neutral Zone:

ZBD/PoP

- ZBD's posts felt cautious, with posts like 403 being more observations over reads and the popping off the GE wagon. However, PoP's 963 matches my feelings & observations really well. Thus, annoyingly still null.

Gypyx

- Day 1 is good overall; a casual tone that leads into more probing questions. Starting a solid wagon on Margot D1 completely unprompted seems towny with Margot's flip. However, it's a weird how she flip-flops on Upward's 91, from immediately giving advice in 92 to calling him "fabricated" (185) and not genuine (199). While I agree with those reads, it's an odd change. She's also cast many aspersions on me, making up motivations whole-cloth. Could be scum pushing me, could be a total vibe mismatch. Either way, enough ambiguity for me to leave her in neutral.

Scummy:

Upwards

- Basically the same thoughts as everyone else. Overwrought intro in 91, bad chess metaphor & analysis in 333 and 356 that are incongruous with the otherwise logical approach. Oddly defensive in 931 after a mediocre ToS style post. Some good posts though; I like 238 and 361. After this reread, my softest scumread and some of this seems like common ESL tone issues. But it's not day 1 anymore so they're free for the voting!

Enchant

- Enchant's votes come with no real reads (792, 944). FuDuzn was suspicious of Alianna, calling them "trying to seem genuine, yet somehow seem fake" (131). Most egregious, I can't see any world where town posts a large-font, bolded, "Silence" instead of encouraging communication (918).

Deltawave

- Some strange knowledge / phrasing gaps for having 3k posts (55, 968, and especially 619). 264 is a really bad list, misreading both me and Lucca (with a vote based on said misread!) implies that they're trying to manufacture reasons instead of find them. Pushes to prolong the day when Margot is the lead vote candidate (332), giving time for the wagon to switch to GE.

My impressions:
TRs look SIMILAR to mine
Scumreads on Enchant and Delta seem like stretches to me - could you explain what you mean by Delta "misreading" you and Luchador?
Scumread on Uppercutwards I can vibe with.
As BACKWARDS as it sounds, I DISLIKE nullreads when they've done both DOMINANT and tiny things. Early game this is OKAY, but later on it can be tiny mafia keeping OPTIONS OPEN.

There are TWO WORLDS. When Laplacian is DOMINANT town, a tag team has formed naturally and he accepts this tag team - the tiny mafia are simply left amongst the remaining wrestlers. When Laplacian is tiny mafia, he slithers behind the tag team, hoping to HIDE behind our MISTAKEN approach.

It seems most simple that Laplacian is town. Most of his actions point to this, and only CIRCUMSTANCIAL evidence points to tiny mafia Laplacian. We will use Occam's Metal Folding Chair and say he is DOMINANT town here.

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

Laplacian, did you make any of your reads out of FEAR of being HAMMERED DOWN for standing out? If so, which ones? How would they be different if you were not worried about The People's Elbow?

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

It's just a lame vote is all

The MUCHO MAN got DISTRACTED and FAILED to answer your question from yesterday. APOLOGIES!

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

The way that Upwards is forming his reads and finding things to talk about reads far more like new town player struggling to find his footing in the game than new scum player trying to blend in or manufacture stances.

Some examples that stand out to me:
1) The focus on the situation surrounding Gamma nearing E-1 (Delta said she'd unvote if E-1, and Hu Tao said they'd hammer if E-1). He made several posts about this (462, 464, 466, 484, 532, 539, and there's a clear tone of frustration that nobody else finds this as compelling as he does. I don't think that tends to come from mafia. He wants people to listen to him because he thinks he's found something interesting.

2) Similarly, a bit earlier, his engagement with Gamma in 306, 333, and 356. Again, his point is a little off the wall, bringing up how it doesn't make sense to him that Gamma could see it beneficial to die early as scum. And again, there's some frustration at not having his point understood.

Together, these aren't how scum, particularly new scum, approach the game. The points are proactively made, show original and unique thought, and there's a distinct lack of self-consciousness: when faced with others disagreeing with or not understanding his point, he doubles down to try to make it understood, because it's something that he genuinely feels and is interested in, and he's frustrated that it isn't gaining traction. New scum are much more likely to fold on a point or follow the lead of others.

The best point for Upwards being scum is that Margot's read on him in 373 is awkwardly defensive while still having him at the bottom of her null reads. I agree that is a read that sounds partnered.

I don't think that lucca's point about Upwards' vote being the one to turn Gamma into a real counterwagon to Margot is very meaningful. It was page 12, there was always going to be another wagon that happened at some point. Being the 3rd vote on Gamma doesn't make him significantly more likely to be scum. Nor does lack of talking about Margot. Scum are aware that they partner is being run up and are self-conscious about how they appear in relation to it. If you want a better example of what that may look like, read Claptastik's ISO.

Point number 1 is complete NONSENSE. The way you describe the posts you linked I would expect to find that Uppercutwards was fighting against the Gamma lim given the tone of FRUSTRATION you say CLEARLY exists. He does not look frustrated by the situation AT ALL. He is in fact, feeling quite JUSTIFIED in throwing Gamma from the ring. He emphasizes that HE will ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY and he shades Hu Tao and Delta Wave alike, casting doubt upon which of them would be responsible if Gamma were E-1ed. If he truly cared, he would have FOUGHT to get to the bottom of this. INSTEAD, he spends all of the posts you linked having a meaningless back-and-forth with my brother THE CLAPPENING, wherein he mainly discusses THEORY and occasionally mentions Gamma. You missed the mark by SO FAR in your tiny mafia "analysis", the only conclusion can be you are protecting your tiny mafia friend Uppercutwards.


Point number 2 - 333 is LITERALLY Uppercutwards voting Gamma because he DISAGREES with her on THEORY of how she would play as scum. What a LAUGHABLE vote, the Mucho Man is ASHAMED he missed this.

It seems like, for all the posts you cite as reasons Uppercutwards would be town, he is really posting THEORY that equates to tiny mafia nothingburgers. These will make you tiny. To become DOMINANT town you must ANALYZE and then TOSS tiny mafia from the ring, making friends with your tag team along the way. Uppercutwards simply tells us how to wrestle and uses tiny mafia reasoning to SNEAK around the tiny mafia wagon and toss DOMINANT town from the ring.

MY FRIEND - I will give you one chance to SLAM your tiny mafia buddy with this CHAIR and toss him from the ring.

VOTE: Uppercutwards

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

MU-CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Mucho Man Randy Passion]

Enchant was also on Gamma.

As Laplacian RISES to DOMINANT town status through the COOPERATION of THE MUC-HU TAO-WNCORE RANDY PASSION, The Prince of tiny mafia sees 3 of Laplacians scumreads:

Uppercutwards
Enchant
DeltaWave

Laplacian votes DeltaWave - misguided, but JUSTIFIED in his MIND. And the Prince of tiny mafia shades one of the other scumreads of DOMINANT town Laplacian - drawing attention away from his tiny mafia cohort Uppercutwards.