Mini Normal 2323 [There is an Inventor] | FIN

[Alianna]

votecount

Votecount 3-IV

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to hammer, or 4 to decide for no execution.

Duelist Kage (2):

Gypyx, Hu Tao

Gypyx (1):

JacksonVirgo

Enchant (1):

Duelist Kage

Not Voting (4):

davesaz, Elements, Enchant, Thomith

notes

• The deadline is due in (expired on 2024-01-23 05:00:23).
  
• You can find the combined mod ISO here

[JacksonVirgo]

It's a fact that Black had a gun N2. No way do scum give her anything but the double-kill invention. Chew on that for a bit. I'll be back later when you're ready to talk seriously.

I told you I'm willing to discuss it, it's not on me if you refuse to

[JacksonVirgo]

It's a fact that Black had a gun N2.

This feels an awful lot like TMI

[Hu Tao]

Agreed

[Duelist Kage]

In fact I will further clarify. Any action that could have stopped the night one kill needs to come out now so we can evaluate. Even if it's a doc protect, that's a clear and we don't want our forced vig to blow up a conftown, do we?

No, what's optimal is that we eliminate somebody, and then shoot the counterwagon. Consider both wagons as if they're being eliminated and claim accordingly. There's no real need for a mass-claim or a claim of any sort. Let the PRs decide on what's optimal for them, they have the information.

Do you just not believe in mass-claims or something? That's an absurd position. This is a great place to do a mass-claim; we have a good amount of information already and putting it all together will allow us to strategize what to do in the future. If not just flat-out solve things.

We have a townie who's forced to suicide-bomb someone tonight- don't we want to figure out who is confirmed town

before

that so he can target in PoE? There's one scum left unless anyone wants to argue against that point- anyone who had a confirmable N1 action is basically confirmed town because the remaining scum would be trying to make a night kill. Or find out who can hopefully roleblock to prevent that from happening? There may be multiple people who can roleblock- do we want them all to decide on their own to stop him and waste actions? Coordination is important.

[Duelist Kage]

It's a fact that Black had a gun N2.

This feels an awful lot like TMI

Wow, I'm sorry you think that Gunsmith actions are TMI. Just wait until you hear what I found out about Night 1!

[JacksonVirgo]

In fact I will further clarify. Any action that could have stopped the night one kill needs to come out now so we can evaluate. Even if it's a doc protect, that's a clear and we don't want our forced vig to blow up a conftown, do we?

No, what's optimal is that we eliminate somebody, and then shoot the counterwagon. Consider both wagons as if they're being eliminated and claim accordingly. There's no real need for a mass-claim or a claim of any sort. Let the PRs decide on what's optimal for them, they have the information.

Do you just not believe in mass-claims or something? That's an absurd position. This is a great place to do a mass-claim; we have a good amount of information already and putting it all together will allow us to strategize what to do in the future. If not just flat-out solve things.

We have a townie who's forced to suicide-bomb someone tonight- don't we want to figure out who is confirmed town

before

that so he can target in PoE? There's one scum left unless anyone wants to argue against that point- anyone who had a confirmable N1 action is basically confirmed town because the remaining scum would be trying to make a night kill. Or find out who can hopefully roleblock to prevent that from happening? There may be multiple people who can roleblock- do we want them all to decide on their own to stop him and waste actions? Coordination is important.

It's hardly an absurd position, you just either disagree with me and unable to understand thoughts that oppose yours or you're refusing to even get to understand why I believe the things I do.

We're in a position where we are possibly super tight, we could theoretically lose tonight, so I want to maximise the chances to kill correctly (and avoid PRs) and also minimise the risk to revealing PRs unnecessarily as hiding the remaining utility we have is crucial to avoid being outplayed by the wolves. Mass-claims are generally done prematurely, and without reason so I'm out of the gate against them unless it kicks off or they're explained to me why they'd be more beneficial than anything else.

I'm proposing having two eliminations, consider the counterwagon as a second elim and have dave shoot them. Those two wagons should claim accordingly, as they'd be dying anyway we won't be losing our hidden utility as much as we can while maximising the information. Simple min/max logic.

Just screaming "mass-claim!!!!" is too simple minded, mafia is a game of information. Wolves have more than us inherently, so we work around that especially with the current gamestate.

[JacksonVirgo]

"Coordination is important"

You're pretending like we can't coordinate effectively without a massclaim, which is just wrong

[JacksonVirgo]

Wow, I'm sorry you think that Gunsmith actions are TMI. Just wait until you hear what I found out about Night 1!

Get off your high horse, I think TMI is TMI. If you wanna claim, claim. Don't do whatever the hell this is pretending like you're making some grandiose gotcha

[Thomith]

If there is a roleblocker that did block someone night 1 I think they at least should out that information because I do think that helps us. If its ambiguous if you blocked or protected (JK, Alien ect), then I don't think you should claim. Maybe see if you can soft a N1 target though though just in case, but don't do that if you think it'd be obvious.

As for a mass claim I think I'm okay waiting otherwise.

[JacksonVirgo]

If there is a roleblocker that did block someone night 1 I think they at least should out that information because I do think that helps us. If its ambiguous if you blocked or protected (JK, Alien ect), then I don't think you should claim. Maybe see if you can soft a N1 target though though just in case, but don't do that if you think it'd be obvious.

As for a mass claim I think I'm okay waiting otherwise.

Yeah, leave the PRs to do what they think is the right thing to do. If there's an incrimination, they will claim it. If we're going to elim someone they have a clear on, they can intervene when they feel it's necessary.

I don't wanna force their hands

[JacksonVirgo]

This game is stagnant, I don't see any way of pushing through this except to just VOTE: Kage.
Waiting on Kage to finalise whatever claim they half-assed and also Dave to come in with their question

[Hu Tao]

I'm fine with this course of action

[JacksonVirgo]

If I do yet another (I think it's the fourth) "delve into my brain" session today. I'm fairly confident that all three in { dave, hu tao, enchant } are all town, with enough a degree of confidence that I would probably need mech information to consider changing my stance on them. Does anybody disagree with any of these, if so why? I feel this is a good topic to bring up with a stagnant game as I don't want to be complacent just because of a slow game (to my standards anyway).

[JacksonVirgo]

I think it's very clear that our actions should be to elim Kage and if they're green, shoot Enchant. If they're red and game isn't over, dave can pick whomever tickles his pickle.

Having a pretty much locked elim is once again hurting thread health, or maybe that's me looking too far into it because I've always thought it does that

[Gypyx]

If I do yet another (I think it's the fourth) "delve into my brain" session today. I'm fairly confident that all three in { dave, hu tao, enchant } are all town, with enough a degree of confidence that I would probably need mech information to consider changing my stance on them. Does anybody disagree with any of these, if so why? I feel this is a good topic to bring up with a stagnant game as I don't want to be complacent just because of a slow game (to my standards anyway).

Hu Tao i'm a little less certain on but i wouldn't really be inclined to call them scummy either

although it's not like i have strong scumreads anyways

[JacksonVirgo]

Hu Tao i'm a little less certain on but i wouldn't really be inclined to call them scummy either

If I'm wrong on one of the three, it would very likely be Hu Tao just because the read is primarily based from a single pillar but even then it makes me uncomfortable to think about which gives me confidence

[JacksonVirgo]

What's your thoughts on Kage claiming Gunsmith?

[Gypyx]

What's your thoughts on Kage claiming Gunsmith?

i'm waiting for a fullclaim

[JacksonVirgo]

As am I, not that I think it even remotely matters

[Thomith]

If I do yet another (I think it's the fourth) "delve into my brain" session today. I'm fairly confident that all three in { dave, hu tao, enchant } are all town, with enough a degree of confidence that I would probably need mech information to consider changing my stance on them. Does anybody disagree with any of these, if so why? I feel this is a good topic to bring up with a stagnant game as I don't want to be complacent just because of a slow game (to my standards anyway).

Least sure on Hu Tao, because of early game, but also willing to say they've earned a lot of scum points since then, so I still think they're probably town.
Enchant I think I need to see more of before I form a read either way.

[Thomith]

I feel like a Gunsmith claim isn't that unbelievable in this setup?

[Gypyx]

I feel like a Gunsmith claim isn't that unbelievable in this setup?

i think a gunsmith needs a very specific thing to be realistic in this setup actually

[biancospino]

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[biancospino]

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