open 894: near vanilla (game over)

[ProjEctRy]

and even the content he has posted today is regurgitated from what I said,

why do you think projectry's opening of today posts are more likely to have been scums reworking your posts rather than a mindmeld type of situation?

will look at this more tonight when i get a chance but to me i guess at the time it did not feel like projectry was copying your homework

Honestly, it was just a ‘mindmeld’. I just didn’t register in the moment that OWER had already said that.

[ProjEctRy]

Haven’t had as much time as I hoped tonight. I’m going to pick back up tomorrow. Going to work through where I stand on people and place my vote.

[Dannflor]

I have access to a computer again

Will return in morning

[schadd_]

Spoiler:

Sam Cooke in the studio, 1960

vote count 8.2 !

ProjEctRy (1):

OutWorldER

OutWorldER (1):

Dannflor

not voting (4):

ProjEctRy, shiki, JupiterXV, Bellaphant

with 6 alive, it takes 4 to reutilize someone's revenant. day 8 ends in (expired on 2024-01-22 17:40:25)

moderateur notes

• phone vcing from sfo airport

[Dannflor]

okay im here

I realize I've said I could see it being everyone but shiki at this point in the day, I'm only a little sorry for being all over the place.

basically, I've harbored a gut scum read of OutWorldER all game, of which I've only ignored because I thought I was confbiasing after modding him in a game where he was scum recently, and I thought that his ISO objectively looked different and townier here. but idk on my latest read through I did not feel that

I'm gonna go through and try to explain why and get all those feelings out there, and why it might not be anyone else? and then y'all can tell me if I'm just going insane on day 8

[Dannflor]

and yes my assumption has been that titus incorrectly jailed the doctor

I don't really understand what the other worlds even are. That titus meant to jail the doctor thinking that scum were going to shoot the doctor tonight? I feel like the lower risk play is just to get an innocent instead - although that line of thinking does give more credit to titus

[Dannflor]

Spoiler: OWER D1

The first thing that really catches my eye about OutWorldER is the general resistance to voting or suspecting either of T3 or Black until all of a sudden that changes.

In 526 OutWorldER says he is happy on either Kurtapika or Shaddowez.

I'm kind of torn because I think Dann is a comfortable townread for me right now, but I also feel like Kurta's move onto Skygazer could be genuine, and the over-justification is simply a symptom of being in an unfamiliar meta. But even that said, they're a nullish read for me at best right now, voting low-content/low-activity slots is a very classic scum move to appear townie, and I'm general agreement with Dann here that the very diluted votes here and sheer amount of vanity votes is hurting Town's ability to read the game.

I'd also like to note this particularly hedgey reason given for hopping Kurtapika at this point. With the knowledge that Kurtapika was, indeed, low hanging fruit, this kind of over-justification looks like scum who felt awkward about voting a slot like Kurtapika's.

In 694, OutWorldER adds Skygazer to his limpool, another flipped town who was receiving heat at the time.

VOTE: Kurtapika

E-2

I think I agree that Kurta is probably just a mislim at this point.

I'm fine just continuing to sheep Titus and Dann on T3. My preferred lim for today is Skygazer but to be frank with a little less than 3 days left I don't think I could convince people to get on that wagon.

VOTE: T3

I'd also like to point out the above progression. OutWorldER comes back to Kurta, happy to kill him by putting him at E-2, and then 50 posts later says he agrees Kurta is a mislim and hedges on wanting T3 (still trying to make his preference known for Skygazer). For one, we know scum were prepared to bus T3 here because Black says she'd prefer T3 over Skygazer in 901. But also, T3 does not appear in OutWorldER's previous preferred limpool. In fact, OutWorldER apparently town reads T3. Now, I know I'm reading this uncharitably because I think OutWorldER is scum. But combined with OWER stating that his preferred lim is elsewhere and not much really changing with the game state between the two above posts besides me shifting to T3, it looks more like OWER thought it would look optically bad if he didn't switch to T3 there, rather than genuinely changing his mind.

So, to recap. OWER doesn't think T3 is scum, but is willing to sheep me/Titus on the read. His preferred lim is Skygazer.

Literally two posts later in OWER's ISO:

That case is extremely weak-sauce and I think the T3/Black partner theory gains more merit by the post.

That case is extremely weak-sauce and I think the T3/Black partner theory gains more merit by the post.

Why is Titus town?

Because you and T3 are scum.

What??? OWER was town reading T3 before. He wasn't even scum reading Black as far as I can tell. It's a very sudden shift and it feels like it follows the fact that T3/Black were both receiving pressure at this time, not any natural read progression from OWER. Out of everyone in the game at this point, this feels like the most convenient change in viewpoint in terms of optical positioning.

The following argument between OWER/T3/Black... I think it's over the top and forced. OWER suddenly seems

convinced

that T3/Black are scum together, something that I wasn't even convinced of at the time. The arguments devolves into OWER saying that Black is "blatantly misrepping him," accusing each other of arguing in bad faith and asking loaded questions. Basically, the whole argument feels like a caricature of a mafiascum.net argument. It feels fake and overblown specifically to distance.

=============

Spoiler: OWER D2

Despite OWER happy to hard-push Black/T3 as a scum team EoD1, OWER enters D2 with a pre-typed case on Afrayed Knott in 1239. He also still seems to be scum reading T3, but instead goes for Afrayed Knott.

A common theme throughout D2 is OWER saying he is willing to go T3, and otherwise scum reading T3, but also continually trying to make small excuses for T3 or theories about how he could be town without explicitly defending him.

In 1285 OWER says he is willing to vote T3 but thinks Afrayed Knott is more likely to be scum.

In 1361 OWER reluctantly votes T3 after Titus comes out hard against T3.

Then, T3 brings out the AtE and many people start expressing second thoughts. It is at this point that OWER 180s his read on Project, deciding to case him in 1426.

I think Project being scum here also answers one of the burning questions I had ("Why does Black get off the T3 wagon if he's a mislim?" and the answer is it would make both Black and Project look good if T3 flipped town and allow them to flip either Skygazer or Titus, likely Skygazer, without drawing too much suspicion back).

It's also interesting that OWER's case on Projectry also includes a reason why T3 would be town in a scum!Project world.

This comes at a convenient timing when it looks like saving T3 might actually be possible.

In 1427 OWER tentatively puts out another reason to town read T3.

Then... OWER disappears for the rest of the day, his vote still on T3.

Basically, it just looks like OWER spent all of D2 trying to get people to vote slots other than T3, without actually hard defending T3 himself.

====================

There's also just some fundamental things in terms of play. OWER's reads have been static since D2. Now, is this because he never got his tunnel, Project, eliminated? Maybe?? But I find it unusual that all of Project/me/Bella/Jupiter, have all had our minds changed or worlds shaken by the game not being over yet (sometimes multiple times) and OWER is still just like... "go Project."

[OutWorldER]

I don't have the time to go point by point but the extreme fundamental issue I have with your case is that it's entirely cherry-picked; Taking my switching stance from Kurta to T3 as an example, in between those 50 posts from myself was you, yourself, proposing a theory that Kurtapika was a mislim because the wagon had stalled with no counter. I agreed with that theory, and in fact me agreeing with that theory came up several times later in the day and formed a core part of my TR on Kurta until Titus jailed him.

This is case the majority of the time I switched stances. Somebody said something, and I agreed with it and changed my mind. There are

69

(nice) posts and over 24 hours between me voting T3 out of a willingness to consolidate, to genuinely thinking he's scum when he posted his case against Titus. Framing it as "literally two posts later" is frankly disingenuous.

[Bellaphant]

Is it a good idea for everyone to commit to two people they don't want limmed and find a consensus? It barrows down scum's options for elo too.

[schadd_]

issuing a Grand Prod which shall afflict shiki, JupiterXV, and ProjEctRy

[ProjEctRy]

Is it a good idea for everyone to commit to two people they don't want limmed and find a consensus? It barrows down scum's options for elo too.

Yes, I think we should do this. I’d remove Dann and Shiki from the possible lim pool.

Dann - logically it’s not him based upon the Black wagon.

Shiki - Don't actually believe she is the doctor, but accept her point about it being a doomed claim by Afrayed if scum. Plus I feel she has been the most active player trying to advance the game and scum hunt. Given the state of the game, I think if she was scum she doesn’t need to help the game along, she’d just sit back, especially given she’s largely been in the clear (there is no need to put herself out there).

[Dannflor]

why don't you believe shiki is the doctor?

[Dannflor]

I don't have the time to go point by point but the extreme fundamental issue I have with your case is that it's entirely cherry-picked; Taking my switching stance from Kurta to T3 as an example, in between those 50 posts from myself was you, yourself, proposing a theory that Kurtapika was a mislim because the wagon had stalled with no counter. I agreed with that theory, and in fact me agreeing with that theory came up several times later in the day and formed a core part of my TR on Kurta until Titus jailed him.

This is case the majority of the time I switched stances. Somebody said something, and I agreed with it and changed my mind. There are

69

(nice) posts and over 24 hours between me voting T3 out of a willingness to consolidate, to genuinely thinking he's scum when he posted his case against Titus. Framing it as "literally two posts later" is frankly disingenuous.

I mean yes I acknowledge it is cherry-picked but that doesn't really change the fact that I find your stances most convenient out of everyone left in the game

but really I posted this to see what other people would get out of it but so far no one seems to want to engage lol

re: Bella's idea about picking people to exclude from the lim pool. I don't really know why this is supposed to help. Scum (or anyone really) can just change their minds at any point.

as of right now I am pretty much between OutWorldER and Jupiter. I can try to town case Bella/Shiki/Project if I need to but I just feel that none of them are scum

[ProjEctRy]

why don't you believe shiki is the doctor?

I think Titus was killed because she targeted the doctor yesterday and I don’t think Titus would have risked targeting Shiki when we had the Afrayed doctor claim.

[ProjEctRy]

re: Bella's idea about picking people to exclude from the lim pool. I don't really know why this is supposed to help. Scum (or anyone really) can just change their minds at any point.

I assumed it was more from the angle that the game is sluggish. We are struggling to advance so let’s systematically narrow down the possible lim pool to help move us forward.

[OutWorldER]

What makes my stances more convenient than the stances of anybody else who is/was in the game? In the T3 wagon example, what singles my stances around T3 out as more convenient than anybody else who was indecisive on T3 or who were outright defending T3?

Reading through your wall again just reads like you've gotten paranoid about me and taken to looking at my posts in the most uncharitable light possible.

[OutWorldER]

Dann, could you at least take a second look at Project? My opinion still holds strong: I think the majority of votes he's placed have been bad and he's barely solved the entire game past D1. I thinks his E-1 vote on T3 was bad, his votes on both shaddowez and especially Jupiter were also bad.

[Dannflor]

Project who do you think is scum

[JupiterXV]

got prodded
going to second project's opinion that shiki is probably not doc but also probably not scum. i really don't think it's project here- i used to feel super strongly about him but now that titus is dead i think it's honestly pretty probable that it could be him. i also really don't think it's dann here.

[JupiterXV]

also what does scum ower have to gain from tunneling the entire game

[schadd_]

replacing shiki.

prodding bellaphant.

[schadd_]

tired person replaces shiki.

[tired person]

hi. seems like this is a relaxed game. i like relaxed games. people on this site post way too much imo.

skygazer was very towny, idk why you guys killed her. dannflor, jupiter and bella are also towny. shiki was also the towniest player in this game which means i don't have to defend myself. we win by killing projectry and outworlder in any order. ez game.

VOTE: outworlder

[Dannflor]

is anyone else sleepy

[JupiterXV]

rip shiki, we'll miss you o7
welcome, tired person!