Open 899 - The Pizza Kids Coalition [Game Over]

[fireisredsir]

im mostly thinking of scarfolk again, partly because this game has felt similar in a lot of ways to me, and i remember you being much more wary there

i could be wrong but i tend to think of town you as being on the skeptical side and generally not quick to townread

and just thinking more critically about the gamestate i guess

pedit: oh hello

[fireisredsir]

i do think the copy paste thing felt like a thing that town dunn does

[implosion]

Implo can you post a reads list perchance?

Within the coalition, Dragon > Klick > fire >> Appearance >> Dunn. I think Klick's engagement going down is a little bit of a knock against him but not enough to want to re-evaluate at all. I like fire's posting and gamestate interaction and it feels viscerally like how I remember his towngame feeling. I think the order of the top 3 could change if you ask me at a different time of day though.

I think App+Dunn is a very viable scumteam, I haven't thought too closely outside of the coalition today but I thought Elements was quite town and still think you're town though I also sympathize with people who say they have no idea how to distinguish you throwing reads out there as town vs as scum. I think the trajectory you've gone on today would be really weird as scum though. Then DV (who I've kind of forgotten about some but don't really care to think about his alignment deeply until we find scum on coalition) then T3 (who can like always just be scum here but I think is less likely to be scum than having 2 on coalition)

[fireisredsir]

implo the thing i am struggling with is it's hard for me to see ydra playing this way as scum, UNLESS her partner was in a quite stable position

i think if that's the case then the emotional trajectory tracks reasonably well, where she really didn't want to be in the coalition at all, and was happy to gently move things from the sidelines

but i think the people who qualify for that would be klick/dragon/appearance, maaaaaybe DV. (DV/elements being the two in the coal she voted for that was nearly passed earlier, but i think those two had a less stable game position). and part of your scumread on dunn slot is based on your townread of klick and dragon. it feels like a little bit underbaked i guess, like it doesn't feel to me like you've dug in to the logical conclusion of your thought processes

unless you just think it is appearance/dunn which i mean idk

pedit: oh hello again. i guess maybe you do

[implosion]

implosion can you help me understand why this is town!you analysis and not scum!you analysis?

Honestly, since my previous coalition game I feel less confident in answering questions of self-meta in an honest way. I feel like I could say things but I think I might be lying to myself if I did so because I think in that game I was able to fabricate a lot of things that I think I'm usually bad at doing as scum. So II think the things about my play that I think I'd have a hard time replicating as scum might just be self-deception. I honestly don't know what the best way to read me in general is right now but I think it's probably not off of the analysis that I give?

One thing that I do think might be different about the specific stuff you quoted is that I think I might have said it sooner as scum, I've had a lot of swirling thoughts about Ydrasse and I think I thought I'd been clear about them and I really hadn't been, and I think when I'm scum it can be important to me to put logic out there (since I'm trying to emulate my towngame which is sometimes just a pile of disorganized logic) and I would have wanted to be clearer about things faster?

[implosion]

In that context it feels like a post she'd potentially make both if there's one scum on the coalition or if there's 0 - if there's 0 then she can't really unvote because that would be very auspicious and if there's 1 then she wants the coalition to go through.

If there's 0 and Ydrasse was mafia then not unvoting could lead to losing the game. You rpoint that she can't unvote because she would look bad doesn't really hold up - indeed she would have to unvote.

well my present leading theory is that there was 1 on it anyway but I think it is entirely possible for Ydrasse-scum with 0 on that coalition to not unvote there, both because it's a big payoff if the coalition does swing a different way and because her unvoting in no way guarantees that it will swing a different way; in fact it might do exactly the opposite. Coalition gets to E-1 and a person not on the coalition who was voting it unvotes it? That's a potential red flag.

[implosion]

im mostly thinking of scarfolk again, partly because this game has felt similar in a lot of ways to me, and i remember you being much more wary there

this is some impressive timing lol

I think the copy/paste thing is like, in the form of something Dunn does as town but in substance it feels like something Dunn is doing to emulate his towngame as scum.

implo the thing i am struggling with is it's hard for me to see ydra playing this way as scum, UNLESS her partner was in a quite stable position

I think this is maybe making too strong of an assumption of how much effort she wanted to put into the game? I think her emotional trajectory makes sense, as far as we got to see it, with any scum partner if she had external reasons for not wanting to commit a ton of energy to the game (i.e. real life, which it sounds like she was preoccupied with). Like her pop ins make sense as low-effort high-throughput scum posts in a pattern of not really actually committing to helping solve the game. It's possible that this is me starting to tunnel though

[Dunnstral]

im mostly thinking of scarfolk again, partly because this game has felt similar in a lot of ways to me, and i remember you being much more wary there

i could be wrong but i tend to think of town you as being on the skeptical side and generally not quick to townread

and just thinking more critically about the gamestate i guess

pedit: oh hello

We are 1 day from deadline.

If it's not appearance I don't know who it is, but they are a notch below you three for me. I don't really have a reason to think of appearance as town.

[fireisredsir]

ok i am coming to the realization that i guess because there was the coalition forming and everything already, replacing in kind of felt like i was entering a game that was well into midgame and im kind of noticing that im mentally treating it that way

but actually this is still technically day 1 and still our first elimination and im probably overly stressing given that there's still a lot of time to sort things out

sorry i will try to reorient my brain to feel less like its the end of the world if we get this flip wrong and that also everyone else should be feeling that way too. im projecting too much

[Dunnstral]

His comment on Klick in 896 is sort of this kind of thing but I think the comment itself is more likely to come from scum wanting to say something clever than town who actually believes it.

I think the copy/paste thing is like, in the form of something Dunn does as town but in substance it feels like something Dunn is doing to emulate his towngame as scum.

You are tunneling, you have two points where you think I could be town but brush it aside.

[T3]

UNVOTE:

I'm not really convinced Dragon is scum anymore

[T3]

20 hrs till deadline

I'm going to be at a debate tournament tomorrow so I won't be able to be on

[fireisredsir]

i also just had the realization that part of why it feels like midgame to me is that there's a bunch of slots that i read their posts but they're not here anymore (because they replaced out) but it kind of gives me the subconscious illusion that they died

[T3]

I still kind of like Ydrasse's early play toward me, coming off of Toriel's patience it feels like the right amount of skepticism toward scumreads of me for the right reasons. I also like her early self-analysis. 354 also feels particularly like a town post, i think it's awkward for scum out of nowhere to either put up a 5-town coalition or put up a coalition with their scumbuddy on it. Possibly less so if she's scum with elements or appearance since she said they'd be the first to go off the list in case she got added (which part of me thinks would be a bit conspicuous but from my recent experience playing scum in this setup you do feel like you have to be a bit conspicuous in that way sometimes. Or at least i did). 540 gives me mixed feelings as sort of the follow up to that post in that it is kind of an easy thing to do as scum to throw up your hands in the air, give a couple strong townreads, and then prepare for pretty much any form of the coalition failing. The coalition was 1 vote from passing so maybe this post is like, a wriggle as scum to try to get out of an all-town coalition she'd committed to without having to unvote it? the third paragraph in the post seems really hard to make in that case though so probably if she's scum there was already scum in that coalition.

I think the main thing I probably should be looking for in Ydrasse's play is a specific form of motivation/caring that she had in spades in Toriel's patience where it was like, abundantly clear that even though she was being thoroughly beaten down by the gamestate she still cared about the game. And she hasn't been beaten down by the gamestate in this game but she has been a little out of it and 540 gives me some worries on that front because making a big post like that and then doing nothing post coalition yet is kind of yikes in that department, like it would make sense as scum who is trying to wait a bit to see where the cards fall + who is running out of that kind of motivation to muster consistently.

i just haven't... felt like posting. i've been procrastinating on doing a lot of things the past few days and this is an unfortunate victim of it.

i live vaguely in a world i think rn where it's like... gob... appearance...??? maybe??? as the wolf team. i'm unsure. i haven't sifted through the last few pages much yet but i saw my name and it was shiny to my eyes

I read this and felt like it reminded me of Radio Buzz for a minute - like the tone matches really well and I thought it was scummy, but then I remembered thinking it was scummy in Radio Buzz also and double checked and sure enough that was a town game - I just tend to scumread this kind of post from you because I think I'd seen you AtE over effort levels specifically, as scum, prior to Radio Buzz. But I think there's a distinction to be made and this feels like the town you.

Like when you're scum it doesn't look as much like AtE even though it makes me feel more AtE'ed, if that makes sense. As town it looks like AtE even though it's not really and it's just how you talk about your feelings. I think what I'm getting at is maybe that you force it a little more as scum but that you're good at it so even though you're fudging it a little it comes off more pure when you're scum

I think Ydrasse can definitely make that post as scum. There are still things in her early ISO that give me pause but I feel she has pretty good scum equity right now. I think there are probably things she is likely to do but likely can't fake in the long term with the current cadence of the game as well so I think she'll also become more readable over time so maybe she's a bad lim for today for that reason

VOTE: Dunnstral

His entrance is not exactly impressive and I feel like Ydrasse was scum. I feel like the aspects of her posting that people were saying she'd have trouble faking as scum are actually things she definitely can fake over the course of her being in this game

T3 yfrasse seem good. implo will need to go some point soon. maybr dunn too

Do you realize Dunn replaced Ydrasse?

VOTE: implosion

I don't think his scumread on ydra tracks at all and I do not think this is a town tunnel

[T3]

I still kind of like Ydrasse's early play toward me, coming off of Toriel's patience it feels like the right amount of skepticism toward scumreads of me for the right reasons. I also like her early self-analysis. 354 also feels particularly like a town post, i think it's awkward for scum out of nowhere to either put up a 5-town coalition or put up a coalition with their scumbuddy on it. Possibly less so if she's scum with elements or appearance since she said they'd be the first to go off the list in case she got added (which part of me thinks would be a bit conspicuous but from my recent experience playing scum in this setup you do feel like you have to be a bit conspicuous in that way sometimes

His entrance is not exactly impressive and I feel like Ydrasse was scum. I feel like the aspects of her posting that people were saying she'd have trouble faking as scum are actually things she definitely can fake over the course of her being in this game

[T3]

The stuff about Dunn's entrance not being impressive is just bad and should indicate to everyone that implosion's Dunn read shouldn't be taken too seriously

[T3]

In my mind, town tunnels generally have some kind of oomph and people are a little more 'out-there' and irrational than implosion is being right now

[T3]

I also wonder if implosion/Dunn could be the scumteam but that's just speculation, if not Dunn then maybe Kyouko

[T3]

Like, where was 746 when people were townreading Ydra early? I just do not get the sense that implosion actually believes this tunnel.

[T3]

Do we actually scumread Appearance or are we just voting him because he's not that charismatic and isn't posting much of substance

The closest thing I've seen to an actual scumread is DV's point about "Appearance is doing a lot of work to get townread with no follow-through" but I think this is more or less just a playstyle thing

[T3]

The progression between 706 and [/post]746[/post] is poor too - this is less strong of a point but I almost wonder if implosion decided to push Dunn there because he's an easy mislim as town. That would discredit my bussing theory though. Either way I want implosion gone today, unless people have better ideas.

[gob]

We really need to lim implo and fire

[T3]

We really need to lim implo and fire

I am not willing to vote fire today, but can you vote implosion?

[gob]

We really need to lim implo and fire

I am not willing to vote fire today, but can you vote implosion?

yea idgaf

[gob]

im really still not feeling townie emergy from DragonEater (hos tr on me seems like hes just trying to get me off his back. As stated before im not too good at reading emotions. i tend to color any frustration as townie. So im not moving from this read(


theb implo and fire. One is certainly wolfing using high volume posts. Frankly i would like to lim both. Regardless of their alignment i find them both to be anti-town. I’ll remove them both if i have to.