In post 1237, DragonEater70 wrote:
I actually heavily disagree about this about me. Like yeah sometimes I do have something I think about and analyze and whatever, but 80% of my reads in games are like gutreads. And especially when I have a logic-based read clashing with a gutread I often just follow the gutread without thinking about it too much.
i believe that this is your own impression of your townplay and thus what you would try to imitate as scum, but i don't believe it's actually accurate having recently read most of your games
In post 1220, fireisredsir wrote:
dragon, what are your thoughts on a potential scum!klick's motivations for relinquishing control of the coalition vote to you?
1. Pocket me as I had already said on Day 1 when you were queationing me on why I was thinking Klick might've been pocketing me.
2. Have clean hands when the coalition fails.
3. Look extra towny for doing an act that "endangers his wincon"
That said, I don't think your questioning trajectory is a towny one.
the thing i was looking for was if there was any thought from you about whether klick scum would be in danger if losing by proposing that, and if not, who his partner is
like i don't think "endangers wincon" should be in quotes. you were very clearly considering leaving him out
the only way that it's a guaranteed safe play for him is if either him or his partner are for sure going to be in the coalition you choose
and it doesn't feel like you've thought about this at all which is strange to me because it feels like a very important consideration when it comes to solving this game
It's in quotes because there was no shot I would leave Klick out after he did such a move. It was too damn pockety (or towny, depending on interpretation).
I think the biggest thing that sells me on fire!scum is the relative amount of time spent "trying to figure out things" compared to the amount of times spent actually pushing people.
It just feels really off for town to spend two day phases trying to figure out if my thought process is real or not without pushing me or deciding to townread me.
i think if im scum here there's basically zero reason not to push hard since scum in the coalition isn't trying to endgame anyway they just want to yeet townies
Like fire doesn't really have any trajectory with their thoughts. They're stuck in a constant "is it Dragon or is it not Dragon" and it feels so fake. As town, fire would decide on a read even if it was wrong, because when you push a wrong read you can actually find out you were wrong. Like how I pushed Klick and then decided I was probably wrong.
Pedit: I don't think it's a fundamental misunderstanding even if it is a misunderstanding. You are in fact capable of having reads and pushing people, and the fact that you are not really doing that is just REALLY off. Like yes I know you do a lot of thinking as town, but this thinking needs to conclude with a vote or a townread if it's not for show, and so far it hasn't.
In post 1259, fireisredsir wrote:
i think if im scum here there's basically zero reason not to push hard since scum in the coalition isn't trying to endgame anyway they just want to yeet townies
Push who? Me and Klick were at each other's throats moments ago. You seemed fine with letting us have a go at each other.
In post 1237, DragonEater70 wrote:
I actually heavily disagree about this about me. Like yeah sometimes I do have something I think about and analyze and whatever, but 80% of my reads in games are like gutreads. And especially when I have a logic-based read clashing with a gutread I often just follow the gutread without thinking about it too much.
i believe that this is your own impression of your townplay and thus what you would try to imitate as scum, but i don't believe it's actually accurate having recently read most of your games
Please point me to a counter-example then, if you really have read most of my games (why though?)
In post 1260, DragonEater70 wrote:
As town, fire would decide on a read even if it was wrong, because when you push a wrong read you can actually find out you were wrong. Like how I pushed Klick and then decided I was probably wrong.
In post 1237, DragonEater70 wrote:
I actually heavily disagree about this about me. Like yeah sometimes I do have something I think about and analyze and whatever, but 80% of my reads in games are like gutreads. And especially when I have a logic-based read clashing with a gutread I often just follow the gutread without thinking about it too much.
i believe that this is your own impression of your townplay and thus what you would try to imitate as scum, but i don't believe it's actually accurate having recently read most of your games
Please point me to a counter-example then, if you really have read most of my games (why though?)
can't go digging rn but off the top of my head i remember in particular your thought process surrounding aureal i believe in that large theme about the mods or whatever
like yes you usually tend to have gutreads and that triggers the initial thought process but i think when you're town it's really clear that there is still a deeper layer of underlying thought beneath that, and you don't just get a gutread and leave it at that, you're working on analyzing why and thinking carefully about the read
In post 1237, DragonEater70 wrote:
I actually heavily disagree about this about me. Like yeah sometimes I do have something I think about and analyze and whatever, but 80% of my reads in games are like gutreads. And especially when I have a logic-based read clashing with a gutread I often just follow the gutread without thinking about it too much.
i believe that this is your own impression of your townplay and thus what you would try to imitate as scum, but i don't believe it's actually accurate having recently read most of your games
Please point me to a counter-example then, if you really have read most of my games (why though?)
can't go digging rn but off the top of my head i remember in particular your thought process surrounding aureal i believe in that large theme about the mods or whatever
like yes you usually tend to have gutreads and that triggers the initial thought process but i think when you're town it's really clear that there is still a deeper layer of underlying thought beneath that, and you don't just get a gutread and leave it at that, you're working on analyzing why and thinking carefully about the read
Like yes, I had a gut TR of Aureal that game and then I went and verified the meta behind it and gave some logical explanations for it.
Are you saying I had not given PLENTY of reasoning for my reads on Klick, you, implo? Because I feel like I have.
In post 1227, implosion wrote:
I think DV's play today is town very very frequently. Trying to undermine and dismantle a 1v1 between two people on coalition feels like very needlessly anti-wincon play if it's TvT, and if it's SvT then it's more possible but the way he's doing it feels like the way I'd expect him to act as town.
Dragon, why do you think T3/kyo is a very unlikely team? Based on coalition dynamics, or otherwise?
See, I see the possibility of DV being scum with exactly Klick, but I decided to just plain give up on that possibility because I don't see a world where we win if they are the scum team.
T3/Kyo couldn't be acum together because they just lurked for forever with no attempt to get anything done but I guess it did feel scummy for both of them individually and maybe I am in fact assigning too much credit to the idea that scum necessarily would have high WIM or a plan.
Like if fireisred flips scum here then tbh the person I am gonna lock as town as a result is DV, not T3.
I played this setup once before as scum and my WIM was very high, so high that it was very obvious I was just trying to get townread rather than solve the game - Enchant was my partner and I thought it would be absolutely impossible for him to get into the coalition so I tryharded and it backfired
fireisred, what time is it in the land of crimson flame? Because I think your time might be up but I am too charitable so I'm willing to give you a bit more time if you really need it.
