Mini Normal 2325 | Game Over

[Thomith]

Votecount 1.10

Votecount 1.10

Dannflor (4):

Hu Tao, Jacob24, Doctor Drew, Gypyx

ketchup777 (2):

DeltaWave, OutWorldER

ProjEctRy (2):

Black, ketchup777

Hu Tao (1):

iamveryhappy

Doctor Drew (1):

Dannflor

Not Voting (3):

Luca Blight, ProjEctRy, Psyche

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-03 02:13:32)

Mod Notes

None

[Luca Blight]

Luca how would you differenciate a townie who's just wrong from scum trying to divert?

It's on a case by case basis. For example, I've come to the conclusion that Ketchup and Black are misguided townies, but nothing about OutWorld or Psyche's progressions ring true for me.

With Psyche, he has gone from suspecting Bugs right out of the gate, to then doing nothing but defend the slot upon Dann's replace-in, for no justifiable reason that I can see. He doesn't even have another scumread - he is just trying to raise doubts about the suspicion people have about Dann. Psyche has now even changed his mind about Bugs' opening post being scummy!

I get the feeling this is a desperate scum team who know they need Dann to survive the day to have any chance of winning this.

[Luca Blight]

Although maybe scratch the bit about Psyche changing his mind about Bugs' opening post - I think i misread what he said.

[Psyche]

Psyche also looks a bit dodgy upon a Dann red flip:

eggh sure dann is smooth but i honestly don't think bugspray made any scummy posts past their first one

if the incoherence in later posts were performative i feel like it wouldve been played more as silly/detached than it was

even w all the wild stuff there's a consistency of tone across the iso that i think someone not really believing those things would have had trouble committing to

The fact Psyche scumread Bugs' opening, and then Bugs did nothing to redeem that first bad impression, certainly doesn't warrant a defence at this juncture, especially when Psyche has nothing better to offer up instead.

Dann/OutWorld/Psyche, I'm calling it now.

Of course, with the unreadable lurkers in the game there are still some variables at play.

i disagree that bugs did nothing to redeem the first bad impression. his posts weren't useful but they did read town

[Psyche]

do you think bugs made more than one scummy post?

[Luca Blight]

do you think bugs made more than one scummy post?

Yes, I do:
145

[Luca Blight]

Psyche, part of the problem here for me is you're defending Dann but offering nothing up in return.

If we shouldn't eliminate Dann, then who?

[Psyche]

i'll figure it out eventually, but in the meantime it's still helpful to try to keep town from getting limmed

[Luca Blight]

i'll figure it out eventually, but in the meantime it's still helpful to try to keep town from getting limmed

It seems to me that, based on what you've posted, Bugs has made the scummiest post of the game in your view.

Is that an accurate assessment?

[Dannflor]

VOTE: gypyx

[Dannflor]

ignore the first quote

Can I get you to explain your change of read regarding Project?

i think project's 361 was very charitable/empathetic towards ketchup in a way that i don't think scum would be

[Dannflor]

i guess OWER has a bit of the "i need to talk like a townie would" energy but that's certainely no D1 worthy stuff

the drew vote is also very bad and i see it as Dann looking for a way to confibias himself into creating a wagon on drew?

VOTE: Dannflor

why is the drew vote very bad

[Gypyx]

i guess OWER has a bit of the "i need to talk like a townie would" energy but that's certainely no D1 worthy stuff

the drew vote is also very bad and i see it as Dann looking for a way to confibias himself into creating a wagon on drew?

VOTE: Dannflor

why is the drew vote very bad

Because of the afforementionned reasons and cause you yourself admitted that it had pretty bad reasoning behind it

[Dannflor]

why was it bad reasoning? I never said it had pretty bad reasoning I said I exaggerated the weight of it

your stances feel very convenient here like you're just parroting the positions you should be taking

[Psyche]

i don't really like to spend time doing this, but 145 is frankly all junk

you assert that bugs made more than one perspective slip. "perspective slips" and "scum pt slips" aren't a real thing. at best they're extremely rare. but the idea that bugs did it repeatedly over like a 5 post timeframe is ridiculous. how many times have you ever perspective slipped in a game as scum? on a similar vein, you repeatedly note that bugs fails to follow the context of what's being written, but only imply that this is scummy without ever engaging w the question of why someone being really bad at reading could say anything about whether they got a town or scum role pm. it doesn't. this set of accusations effectively requires that bugspray be, er, not very good at thinking, but never even considers the possibility that this observation about bugs' abilities could explain in a nai way pretty much every feature of bugs's play, even their first post.

also, you repeatedly cast survivalism -- trying not to get limmed -- as scummy. but town are at least as motivated as scum to not get limmed, both theoretically and empirically. stuff like deflecting attention, appealling to emotions, and so on are totally common responses by any type of player to scrutiny and again you don't attempt to think through how these things you don't like about bugs's posts actually suggest a scum win condition.

there's not enough weighing of alternative explanations here. you're taking things you don't like about bugs' play and handwaving the steps that explain why this play is more likely to come from scum than town.

[Psyche]

i'll figure it out eventually, but in the meantime it's still helpful to try to keep town from getting limmed

It seems to me that, based on what you've posted, Bugs has made the scummiest post of the game in your view.

Is that an accurate assessment?

i think the rest of bugs's iso recontextualized their first post in a way that makes it close to nai and a terrible basis for a vote on page 20

[Psyche]

i'm going to avoid having a back and forth about this though unless dann's lim really seems imminent. i expect i'll follow up with specific players to try to understand whether their votes are convincingly motivated and so on but i agree that providing a better alternative would be the best use of my time.

[Psyche]

sorry for mispronouns

[Dannflor]

idk Gypyx maybe I'm having a bad reaction because your conclusions are so stinky

but your catchup leaves a lot to be desired in terms of actually engaging with any part of the game in more than what appears to be a surface level

[Luca Blight]

i don't really like to spend time doing this, but 145 is frankly all junk

you assert that bugs made more than one perspective slip. "perspective slips" and "scum pt slips" aren't a real thing. at best they're extremely rare. but the idea that bugs did it repeatedly over like a 5 post timeframe is ridiculous. how many times have you ever perspective slipped in a game as scum? on a similar vein, you repeatedly note that bugs fails to follow the context of what's being written, but only imply that this is scummy without ever engaging w the question of why someone being really bad at reading could say anything about whether they got a town or scum role pm. it doesn't. this set of accusations effectively requires that bugspray be, er, not very good at thinking, but never even considers the possibility that this observation about bugs' abilities could explain in a nai way pretty much every feature of bugs's play, even their first post.

also, you repeatedly cast survivalism -- trying not to get limmed -- as scummy. but town are at least as motivated as scum to not get limmed, both theoretically and empirically. stuff like deflecting attention, appealling to emotions, and so on are totally common responses by any type of player to scrutiny and again you don't attempt to think through how these things you don't like about bugs's posts actually suggest a scum win condition.

there's not enough weighing of alternative explanations here. you're taking things you don't like about bugs' play and handwaving the steps that explain why this play is more likely to come from scum than town.

I've definitely caught players such as Aaron Frost and I think even Bugs pt slipping in a past, so that most definitely is a thing, although that's not what I'm accusing them of in this game. Perspective slipping also definitely is a thing - it just takes some observational skills in order to notice, but scum by their very nature have a different perspective to a townie player - that's the name of the game. Have I ever done it as scum? probably, but I wouldn't know, as I'd be looking at it from a scum perspective and not a town one.

You've misunderstood the finer details of my case, especially regarding the pt slip - Bugs halfheartedly agreed with my observation about Delta pt slipping, but then shades me at the same time, and forgets all about it and votes you for while in a desperate whirl of emotion. Yes, townies get emotional too, but this is a disengaged scum player who is finding it hard to summon the motivation to read the posts properly, and from my experience with Bugs is definitely a scum tell after they've been caught out. Bugs knows what happens when I catch them out early - it doesn't end well for them, hence throwing in the towel without even trying to challenge my points.

I at least understand where you're misguidedly coming from, so I'll consider that maybe I was wrong about you being Dann's partner.

[Dannflor]

hey quick tip for the future luca

scum are actually generally much more concerned with looking consistent in their reads and who they are agreeing/disagreeing with than scum

[Dannflor]

than town*

[Dannflor]

where did your read on jacob end up, gypyx?

[Psyche]

one of bugspray/psyche is scum, leaning bugspray

how does this kind of either/or read happen

bugspray's comment I do think is scummy and performative: to ask the question genuinely in the first place would require them to believe that the NRG (3 people) + listmod signed off on a game that had a role which is no longer normal/considered simple. It comes off to me as faking a dumbtell and also as a way to say "hey if I was scum I could've just asked this in scum PT".

But it being a genuine brainfart is

not

outside the realm of possibility. I've had dumber moments in my time playing mafia. If this is the case than you, Psyche, could very easily be scum trying to capitalize on a townie blunder, which is how I arrived at the either/or read since at the time I posted that your vote looked a bit more thought out than Drew's; Drew's looked more like a kneejerk reaction and it's why I lean town on him.

you are seriously misrepping this. people make mistakes very frequently. there is so mental gymnastics to ignore occam's razor. i had the concern the moment i read the game thread after checking my role pm and decided to immediately ask it publicly

like, this explanation bugs provided for their first post is already plausible on its own. it gets way more plausible when you see all the other unforced errors they put out before leaving

[Luca Blight]

hey quick tip for the future luca

scum are actually generally much more concerned with looking consistent in their reads and who they are agreeing/disagreeing with than scum

Context is everything.