micro 1096: planned idea [game over]

[shaddowez]

Hello! Popping in to avoid intro replacement, generally V/LA on weekends. Also there's no school/work tomorrow so probably back on Tuesday

[shaddowez]

Finally here and reading - questions, comments, and concerns all accepted while I catch up.

[shaddowez]

I've played with Shadow before and on his signature it says he is v/la on the weekends and he doesn't post at all on the weekends and he ends up coming back on the weekdays.

- A

only mafia is vla on weekends

Damn, I've been caught. gg.

if 1 more person votes ill hammer

A successful flashwagon on someone who hasn't even posted yet, only after about one real life day, would be simultaneously absolutely fucking hilarious and completely and utterly terrifying.

I realize you talked with Black about this a little bit, but can you elaborate on your word choice here? Getting absolutely no information based on the quick day (outside of my flip) is one thing, but I don't see that as "Terrifying".

hi! we've been talking so much about you

I know! I don't think I've ever been talked about so much in a game before. I should not post more often >_>

[shaddowez]

Thoughts up to page 5:
Koba is probably town
vibes wise I don't like HPE
Ausuka - Idk her posting is giving me slightly weird vibes but I don't think this means she has to be scum. I also haven't ever been in a game with Ausuka so I am not rly sure how to read her (oh wait nvm I just realized I HAD been in a game with Ausuka but I was scum). Uhhhhh actually I guess she has different vibes to that game so that could mean she's scum? Dunno
tris - literally 0 clue how to read
everyone else hasn't even made an impression on me.

VOTE: HPE

E-1

Why HPE over Ausuka when you have similar reasoning ("vibes"), but actually have more to say about Ausuka?

[shaddowez]

I realize you talked with Black about this a little bit, but can you elaborate on your word choice here? Getting absolutely no information based on the quick day (outside of my flip) is one thing, but I don't see that as "Terrifying".

It's a terrifying implication as to the ability of town if they let it happen and pass D1 by with no info but a probable greenflip gained.

Makes sense. Also +1 TR, because I don't feel scum would have had that sort of answer readily enough to answer as quickly as HPE did.

[shaddowez]

VOTE: Roden

The RVS vote is whatever, but he seems to push the joke part of it a little too far. Once tris asks about joining, it seems like Roden is tring to build up plausible deniability in the case of a lolhammer

[shaddowez]

You might want to read a little further Shaddow. I wasn't looking for "plausible deniability", I was specifically asking for people to join your wagon well past RVS.

Your last post talking about voting me is 133, which is in the middle of shitposting and cat pictures. I'd argue that nothing real started

until

that page, if that early.

[shaddowez]

Huh? Have you ever had a thought like that as scum and then worked backwards from there??? That's not something that scum players do.

Yes? Literally all the time?

I think that figuring out how to get to a desired outcome is highly common - for instance, at end game scum probably have a pretty good idea of who they want with them, so then they have to figure out how to lim the rest of town.

@Rogues

why don't you think scum would work backwards?

I realize you talked with Black about this a little bit, but can you elaborate on your word choice here? Getting absolutely no information based on the quick day (outside of my flip) is one thing, but I don't see that as "Terrifying".

It's a terrifying implication as to the ability of town if they let it happen and pass D1 by with no info but a probable greenflip gained.

Makes sense. Also +1 TR, because I don't feel scum would have had that sort of answer readily enough to answer as quickly as HPE did.

You don't think scum would be able to explain why they don't think quick-elimination on page 5 is a good idea?

Oh, they certainly can. However, I think scum are usually more intentional about what they say, and since the word it used and the reasoning they gave didn't quite mesh at first, the speed at which they were able to reconcile the two struck me as town.

More to come after work meetings

[shaddowez]

More to come after work meetings

I lied, more to come tomorrow.

[shaddowez]

town leans

koba -lean town from there post and fluff early game
tris lean town, from there post and fluff early game
margotrosa- lean town, redon vs HPE look like tvt, redon got frustrated bye HPE and left.
HighPrincessErinys the attitude looks like scum town with aggressive attitude. Scum would likely avoid this type of play, so lean town. but very scum town attitude.


scum leans

Ausuka -early day 1 vote, reason cautious, later feels off. there not much scum haunting beside label others as Maybe reads, with out further reason.
Shadow -not much around because busy
Two Level 1 Rogues
(hydra of DragonEater70 & Thomith) tbh this could be scum, with low activity. but more on null/scum



~H

This reads list seems very shallow, with most of them being based on activity. Specifically regarding koba and tris, what about their "fluff" makes them towny?

[shaddowez]

I was asking you a question on your opinion? You stated in your reads that you scumread less active players but town read fluff posters, I was questioning you based off of that, to try and understand your reasoning better.

- Theran.

Town are likely to fluff more over scum in start in early day phase and tris sounded town beside fluff, also it almost near end phase with low posters, what i meant. i have dealt with low posters who where scum also and it not day 1 anymore when i gave that point out. scum who play low activity is also strategy to not get noticed, to be less likely voted out.

shadows calling it shallow is really bias thinking.

~H

anyways, tris,Rogue,black i can see as town, after black posted more and cleared up misunderstanding.

i will go back to null on rest, i see people hate reads or list. so i will not do that anymore.


~H

People don't hate reads lists. The problem I had with yours, and the reason I called it shallow, was because a large portion of the list seemed to be based purely on activity and not at all on content/interactions. Either town or scum can be high or low activity, so judging people on that isn't very helpful. Similarly, either town or scum can fluff post, and the tendency to not post game advancing content in my experience generally comes from scum who don't need to read people and are just trying to look like they're doing stuff, rather than genuinely trying to solve.

also obligatory, shadow hasn't been here for 8 hours so they're confscum

>_>
<_<

[shaddowez]

What if it's just the two hydras

nah

What if it's just the two hydras

nah

Do you think Rogues is town?

@DkKoba

I'm interested in a straight answer to this as well. You seem awfully interested in the VC while still voting the other hydra, but disagreeing with Black that it could be both.

[shaddowez]

I think I'd be ok with a FF lim based on reactions and what seems to be ATE more than a valid defense of their actions, but also think we need to consolidate based on time. Not willing to move to Ausuka right now.

[shaddowez]

Like how do I even go about reading shaddow

I have low activity because this is a game I play when I have time based on real life, but I still try to engage when I can. So, you can try to interact with me directly and I'll respond when I'm on. Also, judge based on what you feel quality of content is, not quantity of posts. Are my questions pointed? Do I seem to do anything with the info I get? Consider me critically and you should be able to get a read on me even with a low count.

[shaddowez]

I'm pseudo-here for a little bit, and I get that asking questions just to ask questions probably isn't helpful, especially because the answers to those types of questions are more likely to be able to be contrived.

You say my posts could be from town or scum, which is generally true for either alignment. It's usually motivation that matters - are there any specific posts where more info would help?

[shaddowez]

My want for e-1 is obviously separate from who I want eliminated lol

I think this is the first time you explicitly said it, but that's sorta irrelevant. Why do you want to put people in derphammer range if you don't want them necessarily limmed?

[shaddowez]

What are the reactions you're referring to in 679

I agree motivation can be helpful but I also think that for a majority of scum players most things they do have no concrete reason behind them. Obviously that doesn't mean scum don't do things with a specific.motivation, they do it pretty frequently, but like it does also mean that I can't necessarily stare at a post until the alignment motivation jumps out at me

Assuming you mean 697.

473 and 494 are the prime examples. They also seem to base some of their reads on whether or not people are scum or town reading them.

[shaddowez]

I can town clear tris and koba (and therfore myself as well)

[shaddowez]

Negative, but I got yours.

[shaddowez]

Just reread something and realized I technically don't clear myself

[shaddowez]

Ugh, I may not be able to clear them as easily as I thought. I

can

confirm roles, but that's not as useful

[shaddowez]

VOTE: shaddow

I think this is more likely to flip scum than FF

Granted it's WIFOM, but Ausuka would have been a terrible kill choice for me after 885

[shaddowez]

I can town clear tris and koba (and therfore myself as well)

Ugh, I may not be able to clear them as easily as I thought. I

can

confirm roles, but that's not as useful

Is there any reason you shouldn't elaborate on this?

I was originally going based on the exact role in the GIM thread, then when I looked at mine and saw it was opposite I reread the rules and saw Sky neutral-Ed all the roles. So even though it only exists as one alignment in the idea thread, that doesn't mean that's the alignment here

[shaddowez]

It still wouldn't surprise if Margot was scum with how bad her/Roden's D1 posting was, either way.

I don't completely disagree with this, although it's getting closer to PoE than anything right now.

@shaddowdez I want to know what are your reads. You did not give reads last day and you were nonexistent. I have you as a vote candidate because of this.

- A

I'll get to the list, but I just want to clarify that you think I'm scum because I haven't provided a reads list, and have low activity? My activity at worst should be NAI, as several people here can tell you, or I can link you every game I've been in since coming back to the site.

Black at least has motivation for voting me, misguided as it may be. This just seems lazy, like you don't feel like sorting people so might as well go for someone that is likely an easy target.

I think shaddow/Rogues threw some softball questions at each other but never really seemed interested in sorting each other

I don't feel that every interaction needs a follow-up. If I ask a question and am satisfied with an answer, or don't think it'll go anywhere, I see no need to fluff the thread with an "Oh, ok" post. I definitely feel that way about 398....there wasn't really anything to do with that. I should have followed up more on 240, but Rogues did answer it in 253 and I didn't really think of it much past that.

actually no i misread its worse than that. she was putting you as possible partner. why would she be terrible kill?

Like I said, WIFOM, but for exactly that reason - there are other people that are also towny that weren't outright looking at me. Killing someone that's expressed suspicion is just a bad play, unless you know they have a night action that can prove a guilty on you.

[shaddowez]

So at this point PoE leads me to believe it's in Margot/HPE/Black, with Koba a far outlier. Black I'm not getting scum vibes from, her play is very similar here to a
recent town game I had with her.

My Margot read is based largely on Roden's early play, and her early replace in didn't give me town vibes, but her end of Day play did.

That really leaves me only with HPE, so I'll go 1v1 there. I know I'm town and don't want to be limmed toDay, but if that leads to a win tomorrow I'm fine with it.

Still don't like FF play, but since tris didn't cc the mason claim that clears both of them.

Wasn't really expecting this to be the reads list I owe Flare when I started it, but it ended up being that.

[shaddowez]

Also, since I'm at a computer for the first time since posting my beginning of Day stuff, here's the full rundown of my thought process at the beginning of the Day:

My role n1 was a rolecop mishearer. I didn't have any major scumpings except for Margot, so decided to go for a hunch instead and investigated tris. My result told me she was a 4 NATO dollar. Before I even saw the VC I looked at the ideas thread and found a TOWN Tornado Caller. As I was posting, koba said something about being a mod lie detector (which is what I got for D2), which I also looked up and the only role that exists is a TOWN mod lie detector. Looking at the tornado caller, it says that the alignment stays the same. For some reason, my first thought was that meant that whatever the role was - since it was town and I got it, that cleared both of them (since both roles were town) and me, since it stayed the same.

I then reread the tornado caller, and realized that it meant that the player's alignment stayed the same, not the role. Therefore, since both roles were town I figured I could clear both of them, but realized that didn't actually clear me since if I was maf to begin with, the tornado wouldn't change that.

Then, I looked up my role, saw it was only goon in the idea thread, reread the rules and saw that Sky neutral-ed all the roles, and my theory on clearing anyone based on that went out the window. Now, tris is cleared based on mason, and I still believe koba to be town, but not purely based on role anymore.

[shaddowez]

So at this point PoE leads me to believe it's in Margot/HPE/Black, with Koba a far outlier. Black I'm not getting scum vibes from, her play is very similar here to a
recent town game I had with her.

My Margot read is based largely on Roden's early play, and her early replace in didn't give me town vibes, but her end of Day play did.

That really leaves me only with HPE, so I'll go 1v1 there. I know I'm town and don't want to be limmed toDay, but if that leads to a win tomorrow I'm fine with it.

Still don't like FF play, but since tris didn't cc the mason claim that clears both of them.

Wasn't really expecting this to be the reads list I owe Flare when I started it, but it ended up being that.

I don't like your play either.

- A

And that's completely fair. The question is more of do you

actually

think it's scummy play, or do you just not like the fact that I don't post enough? Honestly, my problem with your slot was more your other half and the way they were reacting and twisting posts. The more recent posts seem to be more solving than reacting, which is more towny than at first.

[shaddowez]

I still think it could be Koba tbh

HPE -> shaddow -> Koba probably wins us the game. I don't think it's Margot

I'm good with this. I'm happy to 1v1 HPE and just let the group decide which one of us gets limmed today or tomorrow

[shaddowez]

[float][/float]Posts where HPE mentions me (snipped at either end, but all of these are consecutive with none skipped):

758 - I'm top of its readslist for town.
763 - 758 is quoted so nothing new, but keeping it for completeness
1089 - Comments on a previous one of its posts about scum being on me or Ausuka and was at least partially right (but no suspicion or comment)
1149 - It's me or Black.

[shaddowez]

I don't find your play scummy. I just don't like how you are not posting enough. I had the urge to attempt to interact with you to get some more content from you.

I should be around for the next several hours, and am happy to discuss things. I have two very active kids, and generally try to stay off electronics when I'm with them, so I only generally post during work, which also means I can only post when I'm not actively working.

[shaddowez]

The big thing then is determining if the tornado only swaps roles around for town (or atleast, the same alignment? Like only town could get that rolecop mishearer card.)

I do not believe it does, that was my initial misunderstanding of the role though

[shaddowez]

It's unlikely though because then you can just clear the game immediately on D2, it feels like.

The only way I can think of this not happening would be if both scum were alive, there's nothing in the role that makes it seem two people can't swap directly. It'd be a little weird, but could potentially not be an insta-solve.

[shaddowez]

Is mason considered an alignment, a modifier, or a role in this game?

[shaddowez]

Is mason considered an alignment, a modifier, or a role in this game?

It's a role in this game. The setup said it's 2 town mason, 5 vanilla town, and 2 mafia goons.

- A

So is that a card that got swapped with the tornado?

[shaddowez]

That seems like it would make it too easy as well, but figured I'd ask - if it's a role, I would've assumed that I should have gotten it when I rolecop'd tris.

[shaddowez]

Can you show me where was Harle twisting posts.

460, 465, 477.

It may have been misunderstanding from one side or the other based on language barrier, but she was definitely taking what was being said to a different place.

[shaddowez]

who gives a fuck, ur clear now, they dont need to solve for you anymore

I don't think it's being asked to try and clear their slot, it's to show my thinking

[shaddowez]

I'm only going to bother with one of the posts as an example, because I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who won't listen and learn.

Rogues explicitly asks if one is

MORE

townie than the other, and never says anything about the activity in question being solely one alignment. Your response is, as quoted "

only town

.

That is literally the definition of twisting words, because you did not answer what was asked and phrased it to make them look bad.

Is Fluff posting more townie than posting content less frequently/"inactivity"?

- Theran

oh you think both town/scum can't be inactive, it only town?

~H

[shaddowez]

shadow i see also trying to paint twist narrative even after A claimed for me and her. so what is the point to this?

Also, if you actually read, I'm not trying to paint a narrative. In my catchup I acknowledged your mason claim without a cc, so there's no question. Those posts were directly in response to your other half asking me something.

[shaddowez]

@mod - V/LA until Monday

[shaddowez]

Life exploded, catching up. Based on when I left the thread, expectation is I'll be voting Margot, resolving the 1v1 with HPE after if necessary

[shaddowez]

And just saw the last post in the thread putting her at e-1, so will be holding my vote until I'm definitely caught up

[shaddowez]

Yeah, after a catch up there's nothing to change my mind. You can take this as intent, but I probably won't actually hammer until tomorrow when I can do a more thorough reread.

[shaddowez]

gg all! Glad to see I had a correct SR D1