Open 902: Frienemies Blitz | Postgame

[T-Bone]

Ranger, while I appreciate the enthusiasm to call me town your energy is better spent elsewhere. I cannot be mislimmed without scum practically revealing themselves to do it. Incidentally...I think I have to call STD town because of that.

[Doctor Drew]

I'm sorry what

Secret conversation?

Yes. We talked to each other and said one thing, yet meant another.

Again. I have receipts. You’ll be surprised how obvious they were in hindsight, you just weren’t looking.

Let's see em. I wasn't paying attention i will admit.

Yes, a lot of talk of these receipts.

Yes rl happens and stuff, but don't keep teasing it and not showing your work.

[humaneatingmonkey]

this is bound to be hilarious

[humaneatingmonkey]

This is the vote that killed Python's chance to build Black counterwagon. They were hoping it ended with my vote and people would switch to Black. They were also counting on your townread on them.

This is a sudden flip that could indicate scum's commitment to bussing Python or reveals STD as town.

So, STD, if you can walk us through what made you say that you could be wrong, we'll get a lot from it I think.

Notification bell

[Naerys]

VOTE: ranger
fine, if u wish 1v1 so be it, i am tired of ur nonsense
i will tear down ur logic tmorrow

[humaneatingmonkey]

fuck it maybe i'm just wrong

VOTE: python

that's e-1 i think

fuck i did it wrong, so here's the original quote

but please carry on with the secret conversation

[Save The Dragons]

I don't remember

I would need some time to see if I could figure it out

[davesaz]

Flat out saying you were lying isn't a reaction that means something?

Not to Dannflor it wasn’t. If he thought it was, he wouldn’t have said it. He only did because he thought it would be understood I lie. In 2023 I built a rapport for chronic fakeclaiming. Dannflor knew this and assumed others would, too.

You're missing my point. It doesn't matter whether Dannflor meant for it to be a signal. What matters is that I saw it as a signal.
Which is, somewhat ironically, what you're saying about your secret communications.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Tinfoil hat:

If gob is town, then Python must really thought deepdown that he's telling the truth in #836 - as he could have done things differently if he thought he had the chance of pushing for a gob elimination.

Python's list of people who would go for Gob
- light/Black/Ranger/Python/Drew/Dave

Python's list of people who wouldn't vote for Gob
- gob/Naerys/Dann/HEM/STD/T-Bone/JV

Then everyone in the list of people who wouldn't vote for Gob is just town, and Python slipped.

Counterpoint.

Is this not a surface level factual state of the game?

Seems like everyone voiced an opinion of where they would go for gob or not.

(Counter to my counter, six votes is essentially 7 because someone will hammer so why not try?)

I missed this. It was not. While the list of people who would go for Gob had reason behind it (daveas looked back and they were the previous voters of Gob in a wagon), the list of people who wouldn't vote for Gob was inaccurate (for example, i never said i wont vote Gob)

I do think that while this list is probably not an exact town vs scum divide, it is still important to note because Python still went for Black instead of Gob - where their ass is on the line.

[humaneatingmonkey]

maybe Python just sucks ass as a player and was not thinking rationally idk

[Black]

If Naerys is scum with python I feel like she would have just swapped to my wagon when it was 5v5. That probably would have been enough to save Python. It would have been 6v4 and all they would need after that was a T-Bone or Drew hammer

During the period the wagons were tied, was she around?
Was usesPython around?

That was only a couple of hours a time period.

The scum were clearly talking to each other near day end, likely on whether to try and save Python; they opted not to. Did they have the time to reach a consensus not to swap in that small timeframe?

I need to check myself; I doubt it’s there.

I think Naerys was around

I'm thinking of a few ways where my read could be wrong. Like if scum didn't think she could switch off believably or if they were committed to the bus cred. I just think there are better options today

[Black]

What are you on about exactly? I'd love to hear the theory of what you think I was trying to do

Well if you're scum then you were trying to get people to talk about who they think the Masons are. I'm not sure why'd you ask it as town unless you just don't understand the harm in role speculation, or if you think there's some benefit to discussing it

[T-Bone]

What kind of amateur hour is this?

[davesaz]

What kind of amateur hour is this?

Apparently the kind where you think it's ok to promote discussing mason solves.

[gob]

maybe Python just sucks ass as a player and was not thinking rationally idk

huh? whatever logic you're running through right now is not correct

[humaneatingmonkey]

so at least we agree that it's meaningful to solve the game by finding out what Python was trying to do

[Save The Dragons]

This is the vote that killed Python's chance to build Black counterwagon. They were hoping it ended with my vote and people would switch to Black. They were also counting on your townread on them.

This is a sudden flip that could indicate scum's commitment to bussing Python or reveals STD as town.

So, STD, if you can walk us through what made you say that you could be wrong, we'll get a lot from it I think.

If you're asking why I would vote a townread, lots of people are super confident in their reads even when they have no right to be. In order to better my play, I am trying to be humble at times. If python were to flip scum, that's a win, and if not, then maybe people will listen to me more and I can build up confidence in my reads this game.

Along with a looming deadline, a tbone wagon no one had interest in, and me balking on my tbone read because tbone pointed out I did nothing to push him when I thought I had also contributed i think.

[Ranger]

The "Tee-Hee~" between usesPython and Naerys started early.

10 + 11 looked coordinated.

16 was responded to with 22.

I saw 24 as continued strategic distancing.

I saw 25 as continued cheekiness of Naerys and usesPython being tied together as masons pretending to be mafia.

28 and 29 were both nonserious and yet serious.

31 continued their ties together.

35 continued their cheekiness.


I tied Ausuka to them off of 36(+75), and Naerys's 37 in response, augmented by Python's 117. I thought Ausuka's 131 without followthrough was mason distancing.


If you think I was the only one seeing their interactions, refer to light_ganski's 40. light painted the interaction between Naerys and usesPython as suspicious, I thought it was masons.

I believe light was right (perhaps due to being the actual third?). Light also restated it in 68. I agreed with Light, I thought it was inorganic. I mistakenly believed it was due to masons knowing each others' alignment.


It continued into 41 + 42.


(Again, light possible third from 43+44, then 55, with 67 too. 236 adds to this. 392 too. 490/491/etc. further defend usesPython.)


71 felt it was admitting they were masons being cheeky.


133 + 134 + 139 continued the tee-hee between them. 146 felt like it was Naerys trying to cheekily say they were masons with usesPython.


For Ausuka, 136 + 137 + [poar]138[/post] + 141 felt staged, to fake having no awareness of each other.


When Dannflor stated in 151 he didn't believe usesPython actually townread Ausuka, I agreed; I thought the reason why was they were the masonry.

What sold it to me as mason distancing was how despite the suspicion on Naerys usesPython alleged, they were most heavily engaging Dannflor and suspicious of him without voting there.

That made me believe the vote on Naerys was strategically placed to leave a false trail of them not being masons, and they would later hop off each other and go their separate ways, having hidden themselves from the mafia.


I thought 218 was Ausuka moving to make them do exactly that, and start the process of shifting their reads, enhanced by 278. Ausuka began upping the defense in 280, and making the same wink wink nudge nudge tee-hee interaction in 281, about Naerys.


285 had Naerys within, but usesPython was focusing more on T-Bone and Dannflor, never once addressing Naerys, with Naerys not addressing them, either. There was a mutual sense of them ignoring each other while engaging other alleged scumreads.


I thought the "masons" (Naerys, usesPython, and Ausuka) had, in the mason PT, collectively decided they were sus of T-Bone, and 300 fueled that theory.


While it seemed Naerys was not quite on the same page, I figured it was continued distancing by trying to not appear united as one entity when Ausuka posted 365. 378 made me feel Ausuka was forcing the townreads on the non-Ranger read because her explanation of them was different than for me.








In post 186, Dannflor outright told me "Ranger, I am a mason." Dannflor would never have said this to me from a page one vote on him if he wasn't trying to already tell me he's a mason. He doubled-down on mason-signaling to me in 199. "you are not good at reading me" was code for "Ranger, I am a MASON". If you know Dannflor, you know he wouldn't default to saying this instantly.



In 191, by page two, I had usesPython and Naerys as masons together (see above) and Ausuka as the likely third.

Because I thought they were the masonry, I thought 148 from Dannflor was a scumclaim, thus my 215.


When I read 186, I responded to Dannflor's mason claim with "Nice Try". This was my way of acknowledging I saw his mason claim for what it was, I just didn't believe it. "Nice try" is a phrase I wouldn't use unless there was something I viewed as an attempt to falsely sell a narrative. What narrative did I see in 186? Dannflor-mason, because he told me very early on.

That led to my 242, where I outright said it; I acknowledged Dannflor was trying to pretend to be a mason; I thought he wasn't.

602 was another "I am a mason and you should not be this much in opposition to me" post. Since I was aware I could've been wrong on him, I made 674/679 acknowledging this.




In 384, I signaled to what I saw as the masonry, asking if it was okay for me to fake being masons with them, to get a VT killed in place of a mason.


In 396, I deliberately placed the three masons together, separating them from the rest. It meant I saw usesPython, Naerys, and Ausuka as all the strongest, with everyone else below, because they were who I thought the masonry was. It was designed to reinforce the previous hint. And my reasons were transparently not the real ones, part of signaling:

I understand the suspicion on UsesPython and Naerys but

don't want my masonbuddies voted

I see their perspectives as town

, despite understanding why they're seen as suspect. These reads are where I'll likely need to explain most going forward; for now, this'll suffice.
Ausuka's presence has been strongly indicative of a solvey mindset I believe demonstrates she's town.

I reinforced "hey, I know you're masons" by strikethrough mason text and putting Ausuka next to them with a similarly nonsense explanation. The real reason those three were my top townreads is I saw their interactions as cheeky masonry mechanics.


Then, immediately after, usesPython seemingly affirmed my signal, by stating they were done distancing. They had been voting Naerys, so by swapping off, they would be 'done' distancing. I believed this was usesPython's way of telling me I was right about all three being masons, and a signal of blessing to me to move forward.

There was a post where I swore Python called me a mason to confirm the plan of me fourth-masoning, I sadly can't find it.




All of this was beginning to culminate in 688. I didn't list usesPython, Naerys, or JacksonVirgo, due to belief in them being masons.
I didn't list Dannflor because of acknowledging he could be town.
I listed everyone else.


When JacksonVirgo came in, I began to have doubts Naerys was a mason, and thought the third might be gob from 891 and similar. JacksonVirgo's defense of usesPython told me I was right about the usesPython-Ausuka mason connection though.



I didn't have time to verify (I was working), so I knew I could be wrong on usesPython at this point. Still, I felt I had connected the two strongly.



This is how I thought Naerys and usesPython (with Ausuka/JacksonVirgo) were town masons.
It was also how I thought Dannflor was scum despite his very obvious signaling.


And now, I believe the opposite.

Naerys never really interacted with usesPython.
usesPython never really interacted with Naerys.
Their interactions were performative alright, just not for masons.

Given all of this, my conclusion:

Though there may be extenuating circumstances as to why, I'm going to say something I loathe to utter as I thought it never could apply;

{UsesPython, Naerys}
{Ausuka}
{light_ganski}

{

Doctor Drew

, Save the Dragons}

{T-Bone}
{davesaz}
{Cook}

{gob}
{Black, Dannflor}

If you invert Ranger's readslist here, you'll have the entire scumteam. Vote out the top of her list, and the town wins every time.

[Save The Dragons]

Ranger they all voted each other for most of the day

Why would masons do that that's not distancing that's suicide

[humaneatingmonkey]

Ranger, I will be honest. That's a lot of things. But I will engage with it if you engage with my content as well. Good?

[Ranger]

Let's see em. I wasn't paying attention i will admit.

I probably didn't format it well. Still, all the receipts are in 1467.

[Ranger]

Ranger they all voted each other for most of the day
Why would masons do that that's not distancing that's suicide

It's not suicidal if they never push each other. It's level 2 mason play. Not the smartest strategy, yet smarter than forcing townreads on both masonbuddies and signaling to the scumteam exactly who to kill (level 1 play). I believed their push on each other was designed to deliberately prevent scum from putting them together as a masonry, while avoiding the town wagoning them to elimination.

Naerys was inactive enough at deadline I thought usesPython being in hammering range may have been unintentional.

[Ranger]

But I will engage with it if you engage with my content as well. Good?

When I see things worth engaging, sure!

[T-Bone]

What kind of amateur hour is this?

Apparently the kind where you think it's ok to promote discussing mason solves.

It might be worth going back and seeing which player I was talking to in light of a recent post by said player.

[Save The Dragons]

Ranger they all pushed each other all day