Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[gob]

Vivax is probably the mafia in that pool.

everyone get on vivax

Honestly you remind me of one of those peasants from Monty Python.

Luca said OOO hasn‘t been consistent, you say he has. That‘s the point. Your opinions differ, that should bother you, because it bothers me if it doesn‘t.

What lol why would it would it bother me?

[Naerys]

There is intent in RVS stage. The mafia commonly vote their partner in RVS stage to "distance."

i never voted my partner in RVS

[Naerys]

also sorry, i went down with a migraine

[Oatsmaster]

Gob why did you dodge my question?
If you think that mafia would vote each other in rvs, why did you describe the situation of this game where nobody voted for each other and point at vivax for getting voted multiple times but he didn’t vote his voters? That’s inconsistent with the scumtell that you described.

Also gob is still not actually trying to figure out who’s mafia and who’s town in the game, he’s still floating around just coming in and posting random shit and leaving.

Roden, why do you feel like you can brush off someones question but I can’t brush off yours?

[gob]

Gob why did you dodge my question?
If you think that mafia would vote each other in rvs, why did you describe the situation of this game where nobody voted for each other and point at vivax for getting voted multiple times but he didn’t vote his voters? That’s inconsistent with the scumtell that you described.

Also gob is still not actually trying to figure out who’s mafia and who’s town in the game, he’s still floating around just coming in and posting random shit and leaving.

Roden, why do you feel like you can brush off someones question but I can’t brush off yours?

I explained the first part already. Because Vivax was voted (ie they could be someone's partner) and VOTED OoO who is clearly being SR'd.

[Oatsmaster]

Vivax is probably the mafia in that pool.

everyone get on vivax

Honestly you remind me of one of those peasants from Monty Python.

Luca said OOO hasn‘t been consistent, you say he has. That‘s the point. Your opinions differ, that should bother you, because it bothers me if it doesn‘t.

Does it bother you though or are you just saying that.

Can you further explain your dann scum read

[gob]

That actually is a good point. Vivax was bothered moreso with my opinion being different from someone else rather than me scumreading him. Quite weird.

[Dannflor]

I think Roden’s indignation/annoyance / wanting to fuck with oatsmaster leans townie

I’m not sure scum gets so bogged down in trying to be annoying when the opportunity to be the “sane” one and try to win the argument is right there

[Oatsmaster]

Gob why did you dodge my question?
If you think that mafia would vote each other in rvs, why did you describe the situation of this game where nobody voted for each other and point at vivax for getting voted multiple times but he didn’t vote his voters? That’s inconsistent with the scumtell that you described.

Also gob is still not actually trying to figure out who’s mafia and who’s town in the game, he’s still floating around just coming in and posting random shit and leaving.

Roden, why do you feel like you can brush off someones question but I can’t brush off yours?

I explained the first part already. Because Vivax was voted (ie they could be someone's partner) and VOTED OoO who is clearly being SR'd.

This doesn’t make any sense, if you think vivax got voted by their scum partner, why don’t you think that Roden and/or dann is scummy? They are the people who voted for vivax when he voted OoO

[Oatsmaster]

I think it’s pretty bad naerys is leaving their vote on OoO

[gob]

Gob why did you dodge my question?
If you think that mafia would vote each other in rvs, why did you describe the situation of this game where nobody voted for each other and point at vivax for getting voted multiple times but he didn’t vote his voters? That’s inconsistent with the scumtell that you described.

Also gob is still not actually trying to figure out who’s mafia and who’s town in the game, he’s still floating around just coming in and posting random shit and leaving.

Roden, why do you feel like you can brush off someones question but I can’t brush off yours?

I explained the first part already. Because Vivax was voted (ie they could be someone's partner) and VOTED OoO who is clearly being SR'd.

This doesn’t make any sense, if you think vivax got voted by their scum partner, why don’t you think that Roden and/or dann is scummy? They are the people who voted for vivax when he voted OoO

Well Roden and Dann could be scum. I just voted Vivax because of the voting stuff, but he's also among the 3 people voting for OoO who I feel has been towny.

Anyway what is your main point? Who are you trying to say is scummy? Roden and Dann?

[gob]

I think it’s pretty bad naerys is leaving their vote on OoO

Ninja as well

[Oatsmaster]

Gob why did you dodge my question?
If you think that mafia would vote each other in rvs, why did you describe the situation of this game where nobody voted for each other and point at vivax for getting voted multiple times but he didn’t vote his voters? That’s inconsistent with the scumtell that you described.

Also gob is still not actually trying to figure out who’s mafia and who’s town in the game, he’s still floating around just coming in and posting random shit and leaving.

Roden, why do you feel like you can brush off someones question but I can’t brush off yours?

I explained the first part already. Because Vivax was voted (ie they could be someone's partner) and VOTED OoO who is clearly being SR'd.

This doesn’t make any sense, if you think vivax got voted by their scum partner, why don’t you think that Roden and/or dann is scummy? They are the people who voted for vivax when he voted OoO

Well Roden and Dann could be scum. I just voted Vivax because of the voting stuff, but he's also among the 3 people voting for OoO who I feel has been towny.

Anyway what is your main point? Who are you trying to say is scummy? Roden and Dann?

My main point is that your vivax read hinges on one of the two I mentioned being scum but you aren’t scumreading either.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I think it’s pretty bad naerys is leaving their vote on OoO

Ninja as well

I explained very thoroughly why I cast my vote, and none of my concerns have been addressed. Why would I remove my vote when I raised tons of concerns about OutOfOrder and he did nothing to address anything I said? Why should I drop my vote in that case?

Please read through post 200 and tell me what I said there that seems unfair, useless, not worth discussing. And don't come back with an "all of it" as that will tell me you didn't actually try and aren't engaging. I genuinely want to know what you take issue with here.

[SuperfluousNinja]

May I introduce to you Post 177? lol

Hmm okay, in that post, you said
1) Luca is not mafia because you agreed with him, and you backed it up with what

someone else (Dann) did...

I've read this one about 5 times and I just can't make heads or tails of what you're trying to tell me, sorry. Again, I asked YOU to explain YOUR actions. You seem to be inserting some read on my own actions here that I cannot make sense of. Can you start over with this one? I just want to know why you think Luca is mafia. That's all.

2) I think Dann is town because he would most likely not be so blatantly tying himself up with a townie here. It might cause him problems, as i see it.

That is, of course, dependent on the other person actually BEING town. Is there not a great deal of confirmation bias going on with your reads?

3) I dont really think gob is mafia, so...

Is there any particular reason why you won't tell us why?

Like what do I need to do here to get you to actually explain your actions? Do you need me to vote for you to put the pressure on? Because I think I've reached that point.

VOTE: OutOfOrder

Here's post 200 for reference. Tell me what you take issue with here, Gob.

[gob]

Gob why did you dodge my question?
If you think that mafia would vote each other in rvs, why did you describe the situation of this game where nobody voted for each other and point at vivax for getting voted multiple times but he didn’t vote his voters? That’s inconsistent with the scumtell that you described.

Also gob is still not actually trying to figure out who’s mafia and who’s town in the game, he’s still floating around just coming in and posting random shit and leaving.

Roden, why do you feel like you can brush off someones question but I can’t brush off yours?

I explained the first part already. Because Vivax was voted (ie they could be someone's partner) and VOTED OoO who is clearly being SR'd.

This doesn’t make any sense, if you think vivax got voted by their scum partner, why don’t you think that Roden and/or dann is scummy? They are the people who voted for vivax when he voted OoO

Well Roden and Dann could be scum. I just voted Vivax because of the voting stuff, but he's also among the 3 people voting for OoO who I feel has been towny.

Anyway what is your main point? Who are you trying to say is scummy? Roden and Dann?

My main point is that your vivax read hinges on one of the two I mentioned being scum but you aren’t scumreading either.

No it doesnt hinge on them being scum. It does partly but there is also Vivax''s vote himself.

Anyway i understand your point. I am honestly more interested in pushing Ninja rn instead actually

[gob]

I think it’s pretty bad naerys is leaving their vote on OoO

Ninja as well

I explained very thoroughly why I cast my vote, and none of my concerns have been addressed. Why would I remove my vote when I raised tons of concerns about OutOfOrder and he did nothing to address anything I said? Why should I drop my vote in that case?

Please read through post 200 and tell me what I said there that seems unfair, useless, not worth discussing. And don't come back with an "all of it" as that will tell me you didn't actually try and aren't engaging. I genuinely want to know what you take issue with here.

I read it and im not following sorry. Can you explain it again to me?

[Hu Tao]

Can you show that it is historically a good scum tell?

Sure, let's look at the most recent Mini Normal game that resolved: viewtopic.php?t=92058

Scum team was HighPrincessErinys, Hu Tao, and Purplemango.

The game had 4147 total posts and lasted for 5 days. With 13 total players, the average contribution of a player is then 4147 / 13 = 319, as your point of reference.

Total number of posts from the scum team:

HighPrincessErinys: 162 (died at end of day 3, so 2 days where no activity would be expected)
Hu Tao: 459 (alive all 5 days)
Purplemango: 103 (alive all 5 days)

Even if we extrapolate HighPrincess's post count for a full 5 days of survival, that would only put them at about 250, still less than the average contribution of 319 posts. Purplemango is clearly well below average at 103. Hu Tao is slightly above average, which I concede, but not above the average by much. Hu Tao was alive for all 5 days, which the majority of players were not, and only managed to come in just above the average.

You can compare that to other very active townies like Flavor Leaf who posted 1130 times and Dragon eater who posted 722 times. When you're a townie, you can post a lot more frequently with much more confidence.

It is not an entirely infallible method. But it is certainly a pretty decent one.

So basically only 1 was a lurker. And in this game more town were lurkers than scum.

[Roden]

Gob why did you dodge my question?
If you think that mafia would vote each other in rvs, why did you describe the situation of this game where nobody voted for each other and point at vivax for getting voted multiple times but he didn’t vote his voters? That’s inconsistent with the scumtell that you described.

Also gob is still not actually trying to figure out who’s mafia and who’s town in the game, he’s still floating around just coming in and posting random shit and leaving.

Roden, why do you feel like you can brush off someones question but I can’t brush off yours?

Sorry, I don't answer inane questions

[Roden]

If activity levels, or lack thereof, are an indication of guilt, then I'd be very suspicious of Dunnstral, Naerys, and Roden. And obviously MalcolmTucker but they might be afk and getting replaced.

What lack of activity?

Does anyone find it interesting that Roden reacted like this to my post, and THEN came the aggressive showdown with Oats? Because I certainly do.

I'm totally on board with Lucas's sentiments that the whole Roden vs. Oats thing seems overblown. However when Oats got personal, it made me realize they're probably just being a jerk, and I've learned that being a jerk actually kinda tends to be a town tell. Scum wouldn't take it personally to be viewed as suspicious since they clearly are guilty, but town views it as an attack on their mafia skill to be innocent but viewed as guilty, and they have the confidence of knowing their own innocence, so from those two things I can see where the "being a jerk" thing comes about. Which is all a long winded way of saying I don't really view oats as scummy here.

Roden's reaction is a bit different and again seems possibly driven by what I said. Could just be overconfident town, but to talk directly to Roden here, please realize what you're doing here isn't helpful, your case is very flimsy, and now you're having to play defense. If you're actually town, it would behoove you to find a way to put this behind us, and continuing what seems like a bad case against oats probably won't get us there.

In what world am I playing defense here? I have one vote.

[Roden]

And why are you so scared of revealing information about who you are as a player?

Why is your reading comprehension so bad you need me to spell it out for you?

For real though, this is incredibly rude and I hope this isn't how people plan on treating each other in this game.

We can vote him for it. In his defense though, that's how he's learned to play.

This actually answers the question I was asking Oats earlier. His play felt super similar to Punk's, who comes from a different site, so it made me think he probably came from there as well. In that case, it would explain the instant aggression and over-the-top criticism towards the town and site culture. Oats refusing to answer that question though made me think he knew I just detected his scum tell, but that he wasn't from the same site as Punk and couldn't lie and say he was, and so refusing to answer was his only way to shrug off pressure as scum.

It turns out no, he's just unhelpful and abrasive for literally no reason besides being taught bad habits.

UNVOTE:

[Roden]

This isn't specific to this game in particular, but man I'll never understand why town will intentionally choose to play against wincon and decide to be uncooperative with town

[Roden]

VOTE: Order

I'll get into this vote later, I need to go to work.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I read it and im not following sorry. Can you explain it again to me?

Okay. Then that confirms that you are, once again, just "posting for the sake of posting" and are not actively engaged in solving things for town.

You agreed with a sentiment that me leaving my vote on OutOfOrder was "pretty bad". I assumed that this statement of yours was based on being actively engaged with this game and giving a hoot as to who is scum and who is not. If you made a point of disagreeing with my vote, I generously assumed that you were familiar with my reasons for doing so, because if you weren't, then you're once again just saying things for the sake of saying things and aren't actually that interested in solving this. Which is about as scummy as a tell can get.

The fact that you've admitted here that you aren't at all familiar with my argument and don't even understand it just demonstrates that you aren't engaged. I would have understood if you didn't have the time to understand my vote, but you made an active effort to agree with a sentiment that it is "pretty bad", so you no longer get that excuse. If you were town and you didn't know who anyone was, you'd want to understand people's reasons, you'd want to be engaged, and most importantly, you wouldn't just toss out accusations willy-nilly like this.

You're clearly nervous about my presence in this game. You said a thing earlier about how people on this site typically don't write as much as I do. Well who the hell cares if I write a lot and am thorough? Town sure as hell doesn't care! Why would they? They would appreciate someone going to great lengths to explain their thoughts and dive deep and really drill down into what's going on in town. But you know who would HATE that? Scum. And you have hated it since you discovered that I say a lot. You tried pushing back against me being thorough, and when that didn't work, you threw out this nonsense about how my vote is bad when you revealed that you actually didn't even do any due diligence to understand why I made the vote in the first place. You threw out some other vague nonsense about how you don't think I'm contributing anything to this game when IMO that's CLEARLY not true in the slightest.

And this is all on top of the weirdness with your case against Vivax which has already very appropriately brought you some heat from the others. This is all moving you very firmly into my scum column.

I'm leaving my vote on OutOfOrder for now because I want to see my actions through on that one, but I'm fully in favor of a vote against Gob after all this.

[SuperfluousNinja]

On Mafiascum we generally keep our posts 1-5 sentences.

Here's that post for reference. I'm obviously making you nervous.