Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[Luca Blight]

I just fail to see that Darth's only conclusion following this is that I must be scum. There's no possible alternative here?

Like I've mentioned already, Darth's play is very predictable. I could see his vote on me coming before he did it. i could see his scumread of me coming before he said it. Dann knew this as well, which is part of the reason he scumread Darth in the first place.

As scum, would I really defend Dann to the extent I have here and make an inevitable enemy in a player who is supposed to be brilliant as Town? Only in some ridiculous gambit, yet this excellent 'town' player doesn't even consider the fact that I could actually be town here, defending my biggest townread?

I intend to vote Darth but have no idea what the VC is, so will hold off until then.

[DarthPunk]

You play with a tunnel vision on slots who suspect you. First Dann, and now myself. You didn't suspect me when I wasn't getting in your way that's true, but doesn't mean much.

He was pushing both of you before either of you out and said that you thought dp was scummy??

He wasn't suspecting me until I started pushing back on his Dann case.

Likewise, he has tunnelled on Dann since Dann made his push on Darth.

That’s not the same as what you just said. You said I tunnelled people that suspect you. When that was shown to be provably false you changed it to when you pushed back with on my case on dann that is also provably false

It’s when you made a bad faith argument and I called bullshit literally -That- was when I started pushing you. Because that is when I realised you were mafias

So you said something that wasn’t true twice but you are acting like it’s the facts and trying to act reasonable while being wholly unreasonable that’s the exact reason I started thinking you were mafia and calling you mafia. That’s the reason You -are- mafia

You may say I am mafia, but I don’t twist and lie about the truth like you just have. Again.

[Oatsmaster]

You play with a tunnel vision on slots who suspect you. First Dann, and now myself. You didn't suspect me when I wasn't getting in your way that's true, but doesn't mean much.

He was pushing both of you before either of you out and said that you thought dp was scummy??

He wasn't suspecting me until I started pushing back on his Dann case.

Likewise, he has tunnelled on Dann since Dann made his push on Darth.

Dann flipping his vote onto dp isn’t a push and dp made a 10x more substantial push onto dann before dann could even do his weird mischaracterization thing

[Luca Blight]

think you might be scum based on your recent posting, which doesn't seem genuine and feels very much like you're just lashing out at me because I foiled your case.

Like this is not real, how is the dann case/push foiled when the only other person here is hard pushing dann mafia?
Like I completely don’t understand how you can say this with a straight face being 100% serious

One other player isn't going to be enough to force an elimination. I believe I made a lot of good counter-arguments to Darth's case. Do you not agree with anything I said? And do you agree with everything in Darth's case?

You seem to be just commenting on bits and pieces at the moment, so it's hard to see your broader perspective of things.

Your counter arguments literally amount to “I think dann is town therefore all his actions are townie”

This is blatantly untrue.

I could just as easily say that Darth's case literally amounts to "Dann changed his read on me and is hard-pushing me as scum instead of asking me questions".

[Oatsmaster]

I just fail to see that Darth's only conclusion following this is that I must be scum. There's no possible alternative here?

Like I've mentioned already, Darth's play is very predictable. I could see his vote on me coming before he did it. i could see his scumread of me coming before he said it. Dann knew this as well, which is part of the reason he scumread Darth in the first place.

As scum, would I really defend Dann to the extent I have here and make an inevitable enemy in a player who is supposed to be brilliant as Town? Only in some ridiculous gambit, yet this excellent 'town' player doesn't even consider the fact that I could actually be town here, defending my biggest townread?

I intend to vote Darth but have no idea what the VC is, so will hold off until then.

So in all that you’ve said, you don’t think that my opinion as someone you think is town matters? But I should listen to your opinion?

[Luca Blight]

I just fail to see that Darth's only conclusion following this is that I must be scum. There's no possible alternative here?

Like I've mentioned already, Darth's play is very predictable. I could see his vote on me coming before he did it. i could see his scumread of me coming before he said it. Dann knew this as well, which is part of the reason he scumread Darth in the first place.

As scum, would I really defend Dann to the extent I have here and make an inevitable enemy in a player who is supposed to be brilliant as Town? Only in some ridiculous gambit, yet this excellent 'town' player doesn't even consider the fact that I could actually be town here, defending my biggest townread?

I intend to vote Darth but have no idea what the VC is, so will hold off until then.

So in all that you’ve said, you don’t think that my opinion as someone you think is town matters? But I should listen to your opinion?

You aren't listening to my opinions, or even reading my posts properly as far as I can see.

[DarthPunk]

think you might be scum based on your recent posting, which doesn't seem genuine and feels very much like you're just lashing out at me because I foiled your case.

Like this is not real, how is the dann case/push foiled when the only other person here is hard pushing dann mafia?
Like I completely don’t understand how you can say this with a straight face being 100% serious

One other player isn't going to be enough to force an elimination. I believe I made a lot of good counter-arguments to Darth's case. Do you not agree with anything I said? And do you agree with everything in Darth's case?

You seem to be just commenting on bits and pieces at the moment, so it's hard to see your broader perspective of things.

Your counter arguments literally amount to “I think dann is town therefore all his actions are townie”

This is blatantly untrue.

I could just as easily say that Darth's case literally amounts to "Dann changed his read on me and is hard-pushing me as scum instead of asking me questions".

You forgot the bit where dann said not being curious about people’s alignment was scummy and then proceeded to not be curious about my alignment despite changing his mind on it four times at least.

[Vivax]

Maybe we should just lim Dunnstral. Or Roden aka deeznuts.

UNVOTE:

Luca definitely played more than when not under pressure.
I‘d prefer some pushes that go beyond omgus territory.

[Oatsmaster]

regarding Darth's case in 1552

835: I don't think the confident 180 on your slot is scummy, nor the back and forth read on you, because this is what happens to Town players who are conflicted on a read. We're seeing the same thing with Ninja on her read of Dann. I've had the same thing in my reading of Vivax.

Reading the same content twice and coming up with drastically different reads is scummy. full stop

1092, 1108: You describe this as 'fishing', but to me it reads as a player who has a nagging feeling about a player that deep down they want to consider further.

Dann is town therefore his actions are town

Regarding the self-meta - I just completely disregard stuff like this. I sometimes self-meta myself, and I have given examples just recently of how I might approach the game if I were scum. In this case, I don't need Dann to point out what i can clearly see myself, but i can understand why he's doing it, because I've done it myself.

You're right that he probably would attempt to emulate his town play as scum, but for me his play has been far from 'awkward' - this is where we fundamentally disagree, but for me Dann's actions have been completely understandable and relatable since his case on Ninja.

Dann is town therefore his actions are town.

After the Vivax/outoforder circle you quote 1108, which must be a misquote as that happened prior to that. You probably mean 1229. Again, does he really jump in like this as scum? Surely he's smoother than that? it just makes him look bad. It seems like honest play, to me. I feel as though Dann gives a valid explanation in posts such as 1248 - this is not just something he's opportunistically jumped on based on what Vivax and outoforder were discussing, it's something that's been brewing in the back of his mind for some time, and as I said I think the reaction test and general provocation was a really town move from Dann.

Dann did something scummy but its actually really townie because ?? not explained.

Regarding 1249, I feel as though here he is pushing his scumread and further explaining his reasoning behind it. He probably feels as though, in this moment, he cannot fully engage with a player who reacts belligerently to suspicion. But there is always room for dialogue after this, and the purpose of the post is to show everyone else why he scumreads Darth Punk.

He scumreads darth punk because darth punk actually challenges his completely unsubstantiated read and thats somehow means that Dann is town??

I still don't fully agree with Dann on his reasoning for pushing Darth Punk, but I do see where he's coming from and it reads as sincere and townie play to me.

[Oatsmaster]

I could just as easily say that Darth's case literally amounts to "Dann changed his read on me and is hard-pushing me as scum instead of asking me questions".

Not really sure whats wrong with a case like that. Does it not make sense to you?

[Vivax]

Fuckin bizarro world over here

You play with a tunnel vision on slots who suspect you. First Dann, and now myself. You didn't suspect me when I wasn't getting in your way that's true, but doesn't mean much.

He was pushing both of you before either of you out and said that you thought dp was scummy??

See oats can read AND represent things accurately

Oats is town

Be like oats

[Oatsmaster]

luca aint coming back for a while he gone

[Luca Blight]

I could just as easily say that Darth's case literally amounts to "Dann changed his read on me and is hard-pushing me as scum instead of asking me questions".

Not really sure whats wrong with a case like that. Does it not make sense to you?

Changing your read on a player and pushing your scumread does =/= scum.

I've explained in depth as to why I especially think Dann is Town here, so we can just agree to disagree for now.

I'll be back a bit later.

[Roden]

You play with a tunnel vision on slots who suspect you. First Dann, and now myself. You didn't suspect me when I wasn't getting in your way that's true, but doesn't mean much.

He was pushing both of you before either of you out and said that you thought dp was scummy??

See oats can read AND represent things accurately

Oats is town

Be like oats

This is so over-the-top pockety towards Oats

Unless you're just claiming that anyone who can read and agrees with you is town?

[Oatsmaster]

I could just as easily say that Darth's case literally amounts to "Dann changed his read on me and is hard-pushing me as scum instead of asking me questions".

Not really sure whats wrong with a case like that. Does it not make sense to you?

Changing your read on a player and pushing your scumread does =/= scum.

so how is darth punk scum then?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Wow that is one hell of a back-and-forth, good lord.

I only have a few minutes before I have to head to the bus. I'm finding I have a lot less time during the workweek to devote to this game but I will try to fit in things when I can.

I see Luca asked, why am I worried about him, and the best way I can summarize it is that I wonder if perhaps he is TOO clinical / procedural with everything. Like relying a little too much on what is in front of him and not otherwise showing the kind of uncertainty and neuroticism that I think IS indicative of town (for real I think townies tend to be quite neurotic in general).

I will read this whole thing between the two of them at some point, but you know what would really help me at the very least with Luca? Knowing how you all feel about Hu Tao. Because here's the thing: Luca's vote on Roden, who is probably scum, could just be bussing. But that's already a pretty hard sell for me, because I think Luca has actually been on Roden for quite a while, since nearly the beginning of Day 1, and it's much harder for me to believe someone busses someone else CONSISTENTLY, from the beginning, without budging. But if Hu Tao is also guilty? Then there's just no fucking way you could argue Luca is bussing anyone anymore, since that would mean he threw HIS ENTIRE TEAM under the wagon pretty much from the get-go, which would make him the most epically terrible teammate of all time.

I really do still think I'm on the right track with Hu Tao. And if I'm right, that makes Luca probably the least likely person out there to be scum. So this is the angle that really deserves more attention, in my opinion: the possible guilt of Hu Tao. What do you all think? Who leans really heavily town on Hu Tao and wants to explain why?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Or maybe I'm overstating it by saying "really heavily town". I suppose people can lean town on him but also just have pretty much no interest in thinking he's scum. Basically I'm curious if anyone can make a good case to leave him alone.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Also, just because this was on my mind, IS anyone concerned that suddenly OOO and Vivax teamed up like that, like OOO didn't even try to hide the fact that he showed up and wanted to go all True Detective, all Woody Harrelson / Matthew McConaughey with another player and try to solve the game together? With Vivax as one of my scum reads, of course that's going to bother me, but really it just bothers me that anyone, on day one, would do a thing like "okay fellow townie who I have declared town, let us solve the game together!" Like how has anyone built that level of trust with anyone in this game at this point?

It worries me even more that OOO admitted that he once fake-claimed mason just to save Oats once. That tells me that OOO is willing to pull some crazy fucking gambits in this game. So I wonder if the gambit right there was for him to team up with his scum buddy Vivax and make themselves look super townie by going all True Detective mode on everyone together. In that world it's then likely a scum team of Roden / OOO / Vivax and I'm totally wrong about Hu Tao.

That is a more outlandish theory though and I need to see if I can see an angle of OOO as scum to take this seriously. But if I really am wrong about Hu Tao then obviously I'm gonna need to figure something else out.

As for Dann, I really don't know what to think at the moment and I need to dive into him some more also.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh God I just SiGnPoStEd again, didn't I?!

[Vivax]

It seems like Roden and Ninja are the most bothered on this page to see people laying down their stubbornness to work with each other.

It‘s like they think they can solo the mafia.

[gob]

im the mafia and my teammates are Luca and Vivax

[Vivax]

im the mafia and my teammates are Luca and Vivax

I disagree about me. Careful with the rules about scumclaiming.

[Vivax]

A bit more activity and this game could almost become like Imperial mafia when it built up 100 pages within two days.

This is how you catch the mafia. You give them lots of things they don‘t need or want to read until they commit sudoku

[Gypyx]

woah

[Gypyx]

that's like, time for a VC dude

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