Open 902: Frienemies Blitz | Postgame

[humaneatingmonkey]

Thanks man, I really appreciate that. Ill just go by my work day and I'll respond to you as soon as I can.

[Black]

Deadline in 16 hours. I don't think I'll be awake for it

[Save The Dragons]

I might regret saying this but I am starting to think T-Bone is town

why

[Save The Dragons]

On Day 1 I thought I did a decent job. Not the best I could have done, I put Python in a bucket of being annoying but probably town, which was a huge miss for me. I didn't argue with enough players. Which I know, that seems like a good thing, but that's how I get a better feel for people's alignment. I also don't mean argue like a negative thing, more like, what we are doing now.

i am just pointing out how you say you did a decent job and then did not post any evidence that supports this, if you want to convince me you were present day 1 doing pro-town things, i would probably need examples

On Day 2 I certainly felt like I coasted, looking back I don't know what I accomplished for myself or the game. Unlike Day 1, I can't remember a single conversation I had on Day 2 that informed my perspective of the game. So huge miss by me. I think after missing on Python I was too willing to just accept Dann's reads rather than continue to form my own. I had light_ganski as strong town on Day 1, and nothing Enchant said or did should have changed that. If we're all being honest, this should be the most damning aspect of my play.

This is actually giving me some pause, your "i had light as town and enchant didn't change that for me" seems like it is the most genuine thing you've said.

Today I think I've vastly improved over the first two days. It hasn't been perfect, my argument with JV to start the day went on for too many pages. A smaller argument would have had value, but it got too large and I know that will cause people to scroll rather than read. If scum!JV helped me do that on purpose, great job, smart move picking at my weakness. I think I did a much better job today than I had on the previous two days of challenging players to explain themselves more. I felt like I let STD slide too long and I was finally able to get him to explain himself more on his read of me. Even though the argument went on too long, I think I've coaxed enough content out of JV that if they flip scum, we have better associations to work with then we did at the start of the day where JV was trying to get the day to end quick with their elimination. If JV is scum, that tells me the remaining partner is a little deeper. If JV flips town, then we have more honest takes from them to look back at. I think given the game state this is a big for us and one I think I get credit for. I think I coaxed a little bit more out of Naerys then she was willing to give. I'm still a huge question mark on Black, I'm still unsure what she has contributed, but I did try. I think where I'm lacking is not challenging you earlier in the day to leave us with more substance. Regardless of whether we are right or wrong in flipping JV you still have a confirmed town perspective that is worth listening to. We should have taken more advantage of that today, I knew it, and I let it slide. I think in a world where I was scum, this is also pretty damning of me and I need to be better as town. I also got too caught up in JV, Black, and Naerys, and if none of them are scum I have given space to scum in STD, Drew, Dave, and Ranger.

I think this paragraph says very little in a lot of words, tbh.

Did you push back on players pushing you? Yes. Does that have anything to do with your alignment? Not really

You also state if JV is town X and if JV is scum Y but i don't think we gleaned that from your argument with JV if i'm being honest

I will give you credit for getting JV to talk more, sure.

I think saying "i voted black and naerys and they responded" is not really a strong argument either but i guess it is something.

[Save The Dragons]

with that said UNVOTE:

gonna think a bit.

i am souring on dave a lot and might invite him into my set of people i'd vote

[DragonEater70]

VC 3.06

Votecount 3.06

JacksonVirgo (3):

humaneatingmonkey, Black, Ranger

[E-2]

Naerys (2):

T-Bone, Doctor Drew

Doctor Drew (1):

JacksonVirgo

davesaz (1):

Naerys

Not Voting (2):

davesaz, Save The Dragons

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-02-08 01:56:12).

Mod notes:

• Combined mod ISO

[Naerys]

I am glad people started to think about dave slot

[davesaz]

I wonder if you're basing your thoughts on me on the difference between December and now. In December I was on vacation from work basically the entire. Since 2nd week in Jan I have been back to my usual 60 hours a week. You get about 30-60 minutes a day on average from me now, in maybe 5-10 minute chunks.

[humaneatingmonkey]

T-Bone, what's your favorite scumhunting method?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also, why do you think I'm leaving without much substance? What are you looking for from me?

[Doctor Drew]

I actually kinda feel Jackson is being genuine here, would prefer Nae(as I have said).

[JacksonVirgo]

I actually kinda feel Jackson is being genuine here, would prefer Nae(as I have said).

Care to elaborate? On the first bit obviously

[Doctor Drew]

I actually kinda feel Jackson is being genuine here, would prefer Nae(as I have said).

Care to elaborate? On the first bit obviously

Well I said as much yesterday I believe Nae to be scum over you.

Also would be quite the gamble for scum to put themselves at E-1 close to the end of the day, and honestly just the vibes of the end of day.

[JacksonVirgo]

I see

[Ranger]

I'll be here in a bit.

[Ranger]

Also I'm famous for townreading scum, so if Ranger and Save the Dragons end up being scum together then GG!

Given STD's treatment of me, you needn't worry about us being scum together.

Working together, on the other hand...

[Ranger]

Also I'm famous for townreading scum, so if Ranger and Save the Dragons end up being scum together then GG!

Given STD's treatment of me, you needn't worry about us being scum together.

Working together, on the other hand...

I will happily work with STD, the question is if he reciprocates.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm going to bed.

Number one.

I still want JV's slot to flip. What I wanted to see was JV trying to case someone as an alternative for their elimination - someone they strongly scumread - and be invested in trying to get this done by going back to the game and retroactively explaining why this alternative was the scum partner for Python and how this scumread has been the scum all along.

A high bar, and maybe not entirely fair to expect JV to act this way, but it was what I was looking for that I told myself I'll get off JV for. Otherwise; the AtE, self-vote, and scumreads based on recency biases instead of a more holistic, retroactive read of a new scumread isn't just doing it for me. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and I'll gladly take a yelling in the dead thread.

Number two.

As for T-Bone, their initial reaction to me was interesting in that he automatically went for discrediting my feelings as "vague descriptions for gut" and invalidating it as "no substance". But I don't agree - in fact, I've put out a lot of substance out there? Everyone immediately understands what I feel about the game, what my teammates are feeling about the game, what the game-defining moments are for me, and what I think about those game-defining moments. So, is there substance that he's looking for that I'm not putting out? idk.

Their description of their play reveals that they had been self-aware that their play was lacking for day 1 and day 2. But also missing in day 3 is an element of scumhunting. Their description of their game is too focused in the value of moving game forward, but moving the game forward for me is about deciding who to vote for - someone who you think is scum. That's entirely absent even in their description of what they're doing. There is a lack of clear idea of who they think is scum (as pointed out in StD as well) and what they're doing to get those scum out. That's not scumhunting for me, and if someone isn't scumhunting then they're not getting my townread.

If these ideas seem half-baked, maybe it is. But these are my strongest impressions. If it resonates, then it resonates. If it doesn't, then don't worry about it. There's no time for me to investigate or prod or reaction test because I'm going to bed, but this is where I'm leaving the game with. Hope people carry the torch moving forward. It will be pretty interesting what will happen in Day 4.

See y'all post game.

[Ranger]

Thanks man, I really appreciate that. Ill just go by my work day and I'll respond to you as soon as I can.

If it helps; I still believe the most alignment-indicative day for the game was D1. I believe looking at events, including usesPython's absence from the thread while being online (i.e., posting to the scum PT) warrant a look.

I still believe the game-long efforts to wagon T-Bone are a likely indicator he's town and he doesn't feel like scum to me, although I've little tangible behind it.

I'll say Black's felt like she's been coasting by in comparison to her D1 play, so there's concerns there, yet the strong push by usesPython to wagon her D1 similarly reflects well on her chances to be town, similarly to T-Bone.

I've had good vibes from davesaz the entire game, yet nothing concrete. I understand the points against them and they may have merit, yet by gut, he vibes town.

I've had STD as town the entire game. I do have paranoia about his tunnel being relatively easy to fake as scum, yet I still see him as more town than not.

JacksonVirgo is a mixed bag. I still believe they are a good flip, yet I'm not convinced they're scum. They've had points where I thought they were deliberately anti-spewing, and there's concerns their D3 posting since has been an effort to distance from the last scum and allow the last scum to be positioned better than they otherwise would be. At the same time, they have had plenty which has looked town to me and they are putting effort in and trying to solve, so I can see them as town.

Naerys I'm also second-guessing the scumread on. A lot of it is a combination of pride behind wanting to have gotten the right idea on D1 with the wrong execution (mafia, not masons), with a belief D1 was genuinely partnerey. I believe her actions have consistently shown her to be scum coasting by on the usesPython bus, with her likely talking to usesPython behind closed doors at day's end and deciding to stay bussing to cruise by. However, I recognize I'm not familiar with her play as both alignments and apparently she efforts more as scum than she has here.

Doctor Drew is a pile of nothing from me, which is minorly distressing. I feel I should have feelings on him, right or wrong, about whether he's town or scum. I don't, and that's alarming. Every time I try to think about his slot, I can't recall what he's done, so it's hard for me to get a vibe read on him. I don't want to condemn him because I haven't analyzed him, yet I don't want him to cruise by from having not scrutinized him, either.

I know I've failed to deliver on reassessing and reanalyzing information. That's my bad. I feel if I did the legwork, the game would be broken open though.

[JacksonVirgo]

I still want JV's slot to flip. What I wanted to see was JV trying to case someone as an alternative for their elimination - someone they strongly scumread - and be invested in trying to get this done by going back to the game and retroactively explaining why this alternative was the scum partner for Python and how this scumread has been the scum all along.

A high bar, and maybe not entirely fair to expect JV to act this way, but it was what I was looking for that I told myself I'll get off JV for. Otherwise; the AtE, self-vote, and scumreads based on recency biases instead of a more holistic, retroactive read of a new scumread isn't just doing it for me. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and I'll gladly take a yelling in the dead thread.

wow

[JacksonVirgo]

Anyway,

VOTE: dave

[Doctor Drew]

Anyway,

VOTE: dave

Why not Nae?

[Black]

I don't like that there's 3 wagons with so little time left. We should start consolidating

I'm gonna be slightly stubborn here because I compromised on Enchant D2 so I would like it if people would help me fade Jackson today

[T-Bone]

am just pointing out how you say you did a decent job and then did not post any evidence that supports this, if you want to convince me you were present day 1 doing pro-town things, i would probably need examples

I don't want to convince you of anything. HEM asked for me to describe my game today, and so I did. I referenced the first 2 days to show what I was thinking when reflecting on today.

[Save The Dragons]

you said you did a decent job d1

I am disagreeing with this proposition