Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[SuperfluousNinja]

Here's where I am right now.

TOWN
Luca
Darth
Oats
Gob
Dannflor
Hu Tao

NULL
OOO
Vivax
Naerys
Grack

I'm not confident in any scum reads at this point. So far my track record on my scumspicions has been totally wrong so I think I'm going to try this the other way, where I find people to put in the town bucket and solve by process of elimination.

I am genuinely worried that scum have taken control of the conversation and that those of us who are getting shouted down with excessive punctuation and belligerent rhetoric are falling victim to it. If you want, I could probably find dozens and dozens of examples of people using hostile tone here and explain in detail how people would react to stuff like that. In essence, you'll expect them to become meek, to lose their composure, to make mistakes.

For the life of me, I cannot conceive of any reason why any townie who is interested in winning this game would speak to each other. But I understand perfectly why scum would find it so advantageous to use harsh rhetoric, to belittle people, to emotionally influence people into shutting the hell up, because they know the facts aren't on their side and so this is what they have to resort to.

Please, everybody, let's agree to knock off the hostility. If you really, truly, honestly believe that you've seen no hostility here and just do not understand what could be interpreted as such, go ahead and tell me so and I'll go through and demonstrate to you how it could be happening. It has happened a little bit amongst probably half of you but there's one here who has just gone completely overboard with it. Let's all agree we are going to be respectful to each other and NOT tear each other to shreds like scum wants us to, and let's agree to call out this shit if we see people being rude, there's no fucking reason for it and it is driving people away from this game.

In short, let's bring a swift end to this shitty tactic OOO is trying to use on us and RESTORE order.

VOTE: OutOfOrder

[SuperfluousNinja]

For the life of me, I cannot conceive of any reason why any townie who is interested in winning this game would speak to each other.

*like that

Add that to the end lol. Don't worry, I DO know why townies want to speak to each other lol.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I'm also going to bed, see you all in several hours.

[Oatsmaster]

I actually see things fairly similarly to Hu Tao, despite her wrong read on me.

Top town
Dannflor, SuperfluousNinja, outoforder

Townish
Vivax, Grackaroni

Null
Gob, Naerys

Leaning
Oatsmaster

Scum
Darth Punk


I'm still pretty confident in my top tier town reads.

Why am I scum?

[Luca Blight]

I agree that there is at least one or two of the tl players in the scum team, but outoforder seems the one who is genuinely trying to solve the game, whereas Oats comes across as incredibly insincere and Darth Punk's actions and statements don't align, which shows he doesn't actually believe what he is saying, as well as the fact his supposed confidence is based on such poor reasoning, when he is supposed to be a good player as town. Oats is like the annoying sidekick, always there to back up his buddy. This is more likely where the scum lies, in my opinion.

[Luca Blight]

I actually see things fairly similarly to Hu Tao, despite her wrong read on me.

Top town
Dannflor, SuperfluousNinja, outoforder

Townish
Vivax, Grackaroni

Null
Gob, Naerys

Leaning
Oatsmaster

Scum
Darth Punk


I'm still pretty confident in my top tier town reads.

Why am I scum?

Your thought process this game doesn't seem organic at all, it's like you're just picking up whatever is convenient when the opportunity arises. For example, you were at one point convinced that I was bussing Roden. Did his claim/flip change your line of thought at all? It doesn't appear as though it did.

You argue a lot about petty things and never seem to be genuinely sorting, so far as I can see. Compared with outoforder, for example, who actually adapts and adjusts his reads accordingly and displays a transparent thought process.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I agree that there is at least one or two of the tl players in the scum team, but outoforder seems the one who is genuinely trying to solve the game, whereas Oats comes across as incredibly insincere and Darth Punk's actions and statements don't align, which shows he doesn't actually believe what he is saying, as well as the fact his supposed confidence is based on such poor reasoning, when he is supposed to be a good player as town. Oats is like the annoying sidekick, always there to back up his buddy. This is more likely where the scum lies, in my opinion.

The biggest thing I need to hear right now is why OOO is being so belligerent and seemingly oblivious to the fact that he IS being oblivious.

Like look at how he overreacted to me simply asking Hu Tao to explain his actions. I didn't say he was scum; I just asked him to explain. This was met by OOO with "really, fucking really???"

And then like 1 hour later he comes to the same realization as me, realizes it's worth digging into, and votes Hu Tao.

THAT is not genuine. And to me it's the clearest sign yet that he isn't actually trying to make logical arguments to me; he just wants to intimidate me and get me to shut up. Why else would he write such belligerent words towards me about wanting to press Hu Tao and then just decide to do it himself later? Clearly he's up to something.

[SuperfluousNinja]

The biggest thing I need to hear right now is why OOO is being so belligerent and seemingly oblivious to the fact that he IS being oblivious.

*final word should have been belligerent

[SuperfluousNinja]

Okay one more thing and then I'm going to bed for real lol.

Luca, you say OOO has been "genuinely trying to solve the game." But like... He's pushing YOU. And he has BEEN pushing you for all of D2 so far and it seems like a good portion of D1 also. So shouldn't that tell you he's NOT genuinely trying to solve it? His top scumspect is me, and you are claiming I'm one of your strongest town reads! So like, I am confused how or why you think he's trying to solve it if his reads are so wrong (allegedly, of course).

[Luca Blight]

I forgot to put Hu Tao on my list. I'm leaning town, I didn't really like her reaction test or the conclusions she drew from it, but I think such a test is more likely to come from town in the context of this game.

[Luca Blight]

Okay one more thing and then I'm going to bed for real lol.

Luca, you say OOO has been "genuinely trying to solve the game." But like... He's pushing YOU. And he has BEEN pushing you for all of D2 so far and it seems like a good portion of D1 also. So shouldn't that tell you he's NOT genuinely trying to solve it? His top scumspect is me, and you are claiming I'm one of your strongest town reads! So like, I am confused how or why you think he's trying to solve it if his reads are so wrong (allegedly, of course).

People can have wrong reads. Dann is currently voting me, but I still think he is town. I feel like outoforder has been quite fair in his general reading of my slot, although there was the odd bit of shading that seemed a little underhanded in the circumstances.

[Oatsmaster]

I actually see things fairly similarly to Hu Tao, despite her wrong read on me.

Top town
Dannflor, SuperfluousNinja, outoforder

Townish
Vivax, Grackaroni

Null
Gob, Naerys

Leaning
Oatsmaster

Scum
Darth Punk


I'm still pretty confident in my top tier town reads.

Why am I scum?

Your thought process this game doesn't seem organic at all, it's like you're just picking up whatever is convenient when the opportunity arises. For example, you were at one point convinced that I was bussing Roden. Did his claim/flip change your line of thought at all? It doesn't appear as though it did.

You argue a lot about petty things and never seem to be genuinely sorting, so far as I can see. Compared with outoforder, for example, who actually adapts and adjusts his reads accordingly and displays a transparent thought process.

Not really sure why trying to push a townie would inherently make you town? So it wasn’t a bus, you were just trying to misyeet.

What kinda petty things do I talk about?

[Luca Blight]

I actually see things fairly similarly to Hu Tao, despite her wrong read on me.

Top town
Dannflor, SuperfluousNinja, outoforder

Townish
Vivax, Grackaroni

Null
Gob, Naerys

Leaning
Oatsmaster

Scum
Darth Punk


I'm still pretty confident in my top tier town reads.

Why am I scum?

Your thought process this game doesn't seem organic at all, it's like you're just picking up whatever is convenient when the opportunity arises. For example, you were at one point convinced that I was bussing Roden. Did his claim/flip change your line of thought at all? It doesn't appear as though it did.

You argue a lot about petty things and never seem to be genuinely sorting, so far as I can see. Compared with outoforder, for example, who actually adapts and adjusts his reads accordingly and displays a transparent thought process.

Not really sure why trying to push a townie would inherently make you town? So it wasn’t a bus, you were just trying to misyeet.

What kinda petty things do I talk about?

The point, as you well know, is that you never adapt your reads or thoughts according to new developments - it's like you're holding all your cards close to your chest, and laying them down only when the momentum is there. You seem to be buddying your tl friends as well - your presence in my argument with Darth was particularly annoying, and you keep pulling up pedantic points that don't have any real bearing, Again, I will compare you to outoforder - I could tell he was genuinely trying to sort me in my exchange with him, asking pertinent questions, and showing a clear development in his thoughts based on my answers. With you, I described it like 'talking to a brick wall' (again, I meant no personal offence by that), but that's how it feels in the sense that you take nothing that I say onboard, and you're just trying to

'win the argument

' (there, I said it again).

I have to do some work now so will be on later.

[Oatsmaster]

ers. With you, I described it like 'talking to a brick wall' (again, I meant no personal offence by that), but that's how it feels in the sense that you take nothing that I say onboard, and you're just trying to 'win the argument' (there, I said it again).

Again, I’m not really sure why I’m obligated to believe bad arguments and “change my mind” just because you said something

[Oatsmaster]

I would like some examples of “pedantic points”

[Luca Blight]

ers. With you, I described it like 'talking to a brick wall' (again, I meant no personal offence by that), but that's how it feels in the sense that you take nothing that I say onboard, and you're just trying to 'win the argument' (there, I said it again).

Again, I’m not really sure why I’m obligated to believe bad arguments and “change my mind” just because you said something

The point is that you aren't arguing in good faith - you clearly have no intention changing your mind, Nothing I could say in that argument with Darth would make a difference, I could tell. Therefore I think you're more likely scum who is pushing an agenda and wants to stay on the right side of whichever of your tl friends are town for as long as possible, by backing up their arguments at every turn with your petty, pedantic nitpicking.

I also noted that whenever I made a point that you didn't have an answer to, you ignored that point. You sit back and cherry-pick points that you think you can counter, and otherwise stay quiet. This is an inherently scummy way of playing, as you're not being genuine.

[Luca Blight]

I would like some examples of “pedantic points”

I'm working now, so you'll have to wait.

[Oatsmaster]

ers. With you, I described it like 'talking to a brick wall' (again, I meant no personal offence by that), but that's how it feels in the sense that you take nothing that I say onboard, and you're just trying to 'win the argument' (there, I said it again).

Again, I’m not really sure why I’m obligated to believe bad arguments and “change my mind” just because you said something

The point is that you aren't arguing in good faith - you clearly have no intention changing your mind, Nothing I could say in that argument with Darth would make a difference, I could tell. Therefore I think you're more likely scum who is pushing an agenda and wants to stay on the right side of whichever of your tl friends are town for as long as possible, by backing up their arguments at every turn with your petty, pedantic nitpicking.

I also noted that whenever I made a point that you didn't have an answer to, you ignored that point. You sit back and cherry-pick points that you think you can counter, and otherwise stay quiet. This is an inherently scummy way of playing, as you're not being genuine.

Examples?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I can't sleep lol.

But I do have an example. You were trying to get on Luca's case for voting Roden, citing the fact that Luca had voted for someone "who was injured". But Luca had clearly cast that vote BEFORE Roden's injury. You can look at the time of his vote and the time of Roden posting that he was injured and see for yourself that this was true.

Nevertheless, you still stuck to your guns that Luca had voted for an inactive person, even though it was clearly demonstrated to you (by both Luca and myself) that his vote happened before, not after, the injury. Unless Luca has the ability to tell the future, you cannot possibly argue that he cast that vote with any knowledge that Roden would be inactive.

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE:

rereading

[DarthPunk]

Can anyone explain to me why ht trying to out a counterclaim is something a townie would do?

That’s the second super scummy thing she has done this game , it’s crazy to me how she is just written off as town.

[Luca Blight]

Here is an example of Oats' pedantry, since he asked for it:

think you might be scum based on your recent posting, which doesn't seem genuine and feels very much like you're just lashing out at me because I foiled your case.

Like this is not real, how is the dann case/push foiled when the only other person here is hard pushing dann mafia?
Like I completely don’t understand how you can say this with a straight face being 100% serious

He snips a piece of my post and overly-focuses on the word 'foiled' to entirely dismiss my point out of hand. Even if oats was the only other one there at that moment, and he sides with Darth (which he always does regardless), it does not invalidate the point I was making.

[Gypyx]

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[Gypyx]

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[Gypyx]

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