Kemusan - Game Over

[Gypyx]

Something feels wrong with this interaction.
But I can’t place my finger on it.

kinda recovering from crippling sadness by trying to cheer myself up and stuff, think that's what you're seeing

I see.
Internet hugs.
I’m not the best player to cheer someone up due to the dysthymia, own feelings of precariousness, and my general policy that everything that is said during a game of mafia has to do with mafia.

i mean, in some way it always is right? i'll agree with that, just think lighthearted chatter has it's place too if that's what you're doing against

it's fine also, not asking you to be a therapist or anything right now, just wanna talk with people

[Bell]

Sure.
I'm just letting you know my boundaries and it can be exasperating to talk with me, because I'm thinking thoughts such as I wonder if gyphx is utilizing this angle, the same way, that, for example, Guiltylion might. I.e., asking for sympathy.
and while I often think this kind of openness can be AI, I also tend to go on the wrong side of it because I tend to be sympathetic and consider things like whether a player would "cross" certain boundaries or whether their own sense of ethics would stop them (and for the most part, I've always been wrong because those lines get crossed and you get surprised and in retrospect, thinking about it from the sense that it is always game time, seems to be decent at correcting for these past experiences and mistakes).

It's too bad Dunn isn't in this game.

[Gypyx]

Sure.
I'm just letting you know my boundaries and it can be exasperating to talk with me, because I'm thinking thoughts such as I wonder if gyphx is utilizing this angle, the same way, that, for example, Guiltylion might. I.e., asking for sympathy.
and while I often think this kind of openness can be AI, I also tend to go on the wrong side of it because I tend to be sympathetic and consider things like whether a player would "cross" certain boundaries or whether their own sense of ethics would stop them (and for the most part, I've always been wrong because those lines get crossed and you get surprised and in retrospect, thinking about it from the sense that it is always game time, seems to be decent at correcting for these past experiences and mistakes).

It's too bad Dunn isn't in this game.

yeah no that's cool

we can talk game too if you wanna, i'm open

[Bell]

Sure, sorry if someone asked you this already, but what do you think of Skitter and FireisRed?
They seem like the most readable people right now from the simple angle of posting density, but I'm bouncing off their posts when I try to read them.

[fferyllt]

Nope.
Doesn’t look like they’ve ever been scum before.

I hope you remember that I have a gigawatt townread on HST.

----------------

I'm going to be around today rereading, but probably won't post much until tonight, maybe. Data acquisition last night wasn't great, but it was good.

[Spiffeh]

Ffery, which of the remaining gentleman would you want to leave out of the dance and why?

[Bell]

It's irrelevant what your read of them is. Except in terms of what it says about your alignment.
I recall you taking this tact the last time I saw you posting as scum.
I wonder if you'd remember and still do that anyway. It seems like a mistake.

Then again, people say the same stuff as either alignment.

[Gypyx]

Sure, sorry if someone asked you this already, but what do you think of Skitter and FireisRed?
They seem like the most readable people right now from the simple angle of posting density, but I'm bouncing off their posts when I try to read them.

Gonna be real with you i really didn't think about skitter's alignement yet, there's this weird mental block when i'm just unenthusiastic when getting to her

as for fireis i've got an accumulation of small townpings on them but i'm kinda waiting for her to answer my last thing cause i think that'll allow me to really get an idea of her mindset

[Gypyx]

for reference :

Of the unpaired gents so far, I'd most like to see Spiffeh, LavorManos and STD paired.

RCE and Fireisred at the bottom. I don't know what to do with RH9.

im a lady!

why do you townread spiffeh?

Extreme mind meld last night a la the first and so far only towngame I think I've played with Spiffeh is where it started. His ISO feels so pure. Which is not a word I use to describe my reads, but it applies here.

What are you trying to accomplish in this discussion?

the confidence with which some people are throwing out townreads off fairly shallow things is very disconcerting to me (i think probably partly a playstyle difference idk. different generations and all) and i happened to be already responding to you so i was curious if there was any more depth to the read that i was missing or some player meta knowledge due to familiarity you may have

i think the you/spiffeh thread is interesting but moreso from the other direction. i wanted to get a clearer understanding of it from this angle regardless though

im probably more interested in knowing why skitter townreads him since her entrance thoughts aligned with mine in a lot of ways but thats one place we differ

let people express reads maybe ? i doubt she would just put spiffeh as town and then never reevaluate ever

[skitter30]

Sure, sorry if someone asked you this already, but what do you think of Skitter and FireisRed?
They seem like the most readable people right now from the simple angle of posting density, but I'm bouncing off their posts when I try to read them.

this is kinda what i feel like abt ur posts

[fferyllt]

It's irrelevant what your read of them is. Except in terms of what it says about your alignment.
I recall you taking this tact the last time I saw you posting as scum.
I wonder if you'd remember and still do that anyway. It seems like a mistake.

Then again, people say the same stuff as either alignment.

Bell, If I'm scum, then I'm anti-spewing. If I'm town, then you will know that before my read matters, and you may know enough else by then to trust I'm right about my HST read, or you may have gotten to that conclusion on your own.

[Bell]

But why? it's day one. A gigawatt read day one on a player that is not me is probably a horrific idea. Do you have a certain tell or something that meets a high probability of accuracy? Are you alt guessing on HST and then using that data to sort?
The confidence doesn't make sense.

[Bell]

Sure, sorry if someone asked you this already, but what do you think of Skitter and FireisRed?
They seem like the most readable people right now from the simple angle of posting density, but I'm bouncing off their posts when I try to read them.

this is kinda what i feel like abt ur posts

Get a pickaxe, tiger!

[Bell]

I have ISO’s skitter.

I liked their question to FF about ff in processing player’s suspicion on them. I know ff isn’t an amateur, but they’ve spent too much time rebuffing people and not enough examining their motivation, it ends up with you having to poke tben because you notice it’s missing but go back to to a “well if they’re self resolving I don’t care. “Perspective.

Which I guess is fine, but you seem to be drawing associatives too, so I’m not really sure it isn’t posturing. But might not be scummy posturing

I’m still deeply confused why they thin Fb would ever leave as scum, it’s choosing feels over math. I’m not sure if it’s just a lazy perspective or they know fb so well they know they’d do actually do it as scum.

But I think leaving as scum is almost definitely anti-win condition.

So. Their take is extraordinarily bizarre to me. But, nobody else is telling them that which makes me wonder if maybe I am the bizarre one.

[Spiffeh]

Still catching up but isn't it always suboptimal for a town player to leave before intermission UNLESS they are actively scum reading their dance partner?

Cabd/ffery's plan to leave before Intermission while vocally townreading one another is just...unnecessary

These games are literally lost by Town hastily leaving the dance prematurely so can we stop lining that shit up less than 48 hours into the game? Lol

[Bell]

I haven’t been in a dance game where the partner leaving didn’t result in at least one scum death. People have generally used it responsibly.

I find it violates my cliche policy if FF and Cabd find each other town and go on to win the game and win the most valuable dancers award against all the naysayers.

[fferyllt]

Ffery, which of the remaining gentleman would you want to leave out of the dance and why?

I'm not ready to pick a gentleman to leave out yet. And I have very little control over who it is when I do pick that gentleman. My playstyle is mostly based on townreads/POE. I need to go against that grain in this game.

The reason I don't want to post much right now is because I want to run the posts through my fingers enough that it's all in my brain.

I can throw some preliminary thoughts here if you want, but I'd rather wait until I've done more sifting, and hopefully get a handle on how being pushed this hard is affecting my reads of the pushing and non-pushing players. Absent other data, my baseline in a situation where I'm being scumread out of the gate for being ME is to suspect people who aren't taking stands of being passive scum. and to suspect people who are taking strong negative stands of being power-scum. That's not a good way to process the game. I'm certain that the baseline is not affecting all of my reads. But it's definitely affecting some of them.

I could toss a few game links where town-me was suspected early, thrown off my stride, and mis-elemed. But players who know me know some of those games, and players who don't probably don't care about meta anyway.

At this point I'm not sure if being rusty is even a factor in what's going on here.

Sorry to dump this on you. :/

[Bell]

Am I an asshole if I point out that ff said it doesn’t matter what people read them as and is now posting about how it matters what people read them as.

[Enchant]

It doesn't matter who townread you.
It matters how many.

[Bell]

That sounds like a fine way to process the game.
I’m not horrifically inaccurate when calling out suspect votes on me. How you examine people who’re on you sounds very broad though. You’re basically relying on prior experience and stereotypes. It runs pretty counter to how I’ve grown to read people that suspect me.
I tend just to look for each player’s positioning and ask myself if it makes sense for them to think that and to question them if their position changed.

Well, you can’t pack all that density into an explanation of your own examination of how you try to read people that are pushing at you you obviously have your own method and you may simply not engage with people that push you. In favor of what works for you. But it sounds drastically underutilized. In current form.

What does this have to do with the game at hand Bell.

I dunno.

[fferyllt]

I haven’t been in a dance game where the partner leaving didn’t result in at least one scum death. People have generally used it responsibly.

I find it violates my cliche policy if FF and Cabd find each other town and go on to win the game and win the most valuable dancers award against all the naysayers.

I'm a morbid townie. I expect to die. I am NOT townreading Cabd, yet anyway. And even if I do get there 1. I'd have to be convinced beyond any doubt that I wouldn't be the game losing final miselim

And 2: The whole point of me inviting Cabd is to figure him out and if he's town, then morphsolve. I don't trust any of you to read Cabd better than I can. If notsci were playing, I'd probably care about his Cabd read. Some of you, including you Bell, have effectively made how I read Cabd in the neighborhood moot. I'm not going to blame myself for that circumstance.

[Bell]

It doesn't matter who townread you.
It matters how many.

Thanks for your input Fortune Cookie enchant!

[skitter30]

maybe bell can be town

[Bell]

Does it make it moot if you have the kill yourself and your best mafia friend button? Because that sounds like a a very non-moot option about how you read Cabd.

[Spiffeh]

I don’t really have a read on ffer either way but I do feel like scum are positioning around the slot in particular in some way.

Who are the scum you feel are positioning around her?