Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[gob]

Look ill just come out and say it

The whole part of the game focusing on Luca Blight, Oats, Vibax and NinjaGirl is SHITE. Its so impossible to keep track and follow that groups reads on eachothers. It also doesnt help its hyper bloated.


Someone give me the rundown in a paragraph. If it cant be condensed in a paragraph, we need to move on from that whole conversation and history entirely.

In my opinion

[gob]

VOTE: SuperflushNinja

[Hu Tao]

Can we get an updated vc

[Vivax]

Town: OOO, Hu Tao, Ninja
Lean town: Oats, gob, Dann, Naerys
Null:

Naerys

Mafia: Luca, Grack, Dp

This is still my view of the game. But DP's argument on why Naerys spewed herself town was good so I'm upgrading her to lean town.
I saw zero reasons for deviating from this save for a shower of arguments between DP and Luca.

In terms of people I could be wrong on being town, it could be Oats and Dann but currently I don't want to second guess my thoughts I formed after reviewing D1.

Luca and Ninja scum together seems impossible to me. They work together too obviously when it comes to derailing the thread.

[SuperfluousNinja]

If misnaming is on the table then I reserve the right to call you Gob Bluth for the rest of this game.

[Vivax]

Let's do a 1v1, me vs Darth, and if one of us flips town then the other is automatically the next day's elimination. I have full confidence in my read, and Darth seemingly does too.

And if you both flip scum?

[Dannflor]

grack / dp don't really make sense as teamed together to me

[Hu Tao]

Town: OOO, Hu Tao, Ninja
Lean town: Oats, gob, Dann, Naerys
Null:

Naerys

Mafia: Luca, Grack, Dp

This is still my view of the game. But DP's argument on why Naerys spewed herself town was good so I'm upgrading her to lean town.
I saw zero reasons for deviating from this save for a shower of arguments between DP and Luca.

In terms of people I could be wrong on being town, it could be Oats and Dann but currently I don't want to second guess my thoughts I formed after reviewing D1.

Luca and Ninja scum together seems impossible to me. They work together too obviously when it comes to derailing the thread.

I don't get how you have dp as scum but say his case on naerys being town was good enough to make you townread her?

Also you think this whole thing with Luca and Dp is scum theatre? Including the part where they want each other to be the next 2 elims?

[Dannflor]

yeah wait lol dp/luca make sense

[SuperfluousNinja]

Luca and Ninja scum together seems impossible to me. They work together too obviously when it comes to derailing the thread.

Look I promise I am done doing what I was doing against Oats. The fact that it was WITH Luca is not the important part here. I needed to know what Oats' deal was, why he was being stubborn on what seems like a lot of really low-stakes stuff, trying to see if we could just talk through a read, be logical about it, come to an understanding. And to make an admittedly enormous story short, he won't, so I'm content to just scum read him and leave it at that. He had his chance to admit that his logic didn't add up and that his read strategy is faulty, and he did everything in his power to avoid having to admit it. So he's just scum in my book.

But for real, you won't see that from me again. I got the answer I needed.

[Vivax]

Town: OOO, Hu Tao, Ninja
Lean town: Oats, gob, Dann, Naerys
Null:

Naerys

Mafia: Luca, Grack, Dp

This is still my view of the game. But DP's argument on why Naerys spewed herself town was good so I'm upgrading her to lean town.
I saw zero reasons for deviating from this save for a shower of arguments between DP and Luca.

In terms of people I could be wrong on being town, it could be Oats and Dann but currently I don't want to second guess my thoughts I formed after reviewing D1.

Luca and Ninja scum together seems impossible to me. They work together too obviously when it comes to derailing the thread.

I don't get how you have dp as scum but say his case on naerys being town was good enough to make you townread her?

Also you think this whole thing with Luca and Dp is scum theatre? Including the part where they want each other to be the next 2 elims?

Just cause he's mafia doesn't mean he can't present true and good arguments. He's even better at doing that when he knows the alignments.

There's a reason you ISO the flipped ones to look for spew.

If Naerys was just acting about not knowing that Roden claimed JK I'd be impressed.

[DarthPunk]

Town: OOO, Hu Tao, Ninja
Lean town: Oats, gob, Dann, Naerys
Null:

Naerys

Mafia: Luca, Grack, Dp

This is still my view of the game. But DP's argument on why Naerys spewed herself town was good so I'm upgrading her to lean town.
I saw zero reasons for deviating from this save for a shower of arguments between DP and Luca.

In terms of people I could be wrong on being town, it could be Oats and Dann but currently I don't want to second guess my thoughts I formed after reviewing D1.

Luca and Ninja scum together seems impossible to me. They work together too obviously when it comes to derailing the thread.

How is it reasonable for me to mafia with Luca here.

[DarthPunk]

yeah wait lol dp/luca make sense

How?

[Dannflor]

makes no sense*

[Vivax]

Town: OOO, Hu Tao, Ninja
Lean town: Oats, gob, Dann, Naerys
Null:

Naerys

Mafia: Luca, Grack, Dp

This is still my view of the game. But DP's argument on why Naerys spewed herself town was good so I'm upgrading her to lean town.
I saw zero reasons for deviating from this save for a shower of arguments between DP and Luca.

In terms of people I could be wrong on being town, it could be Oats and Dann but currently I don't want to second guess my thoughts I formed after reviewing D1.

Luca and Ninja scum together seems impossible to me. They work together too obviously when it comes to derailing the thread.

How is it reasonable for me to mafia with Luca here.

That's a problem for another day.
Maybe it's time to do another combined ISO of you two.

Dannflor should be caught up? He was one of the strongest proponents of a DP yeet on D1.

If Luca was town though why isn't he considering Dann, DP, Grack for example? That'd be my next guess if Luca was town I think. No steam against DP left from Dannflor for some reason.

[DarthPunk]

Luca only considers people who call him mafia.

[DarthPunk]

VOTE: luca

I’m here for now, I need to read gob and ooo’s case again.

[Vivax]

Spoiler: A typical frustration interaction with Oats

purpose of the post is to show everyone else why he scumreads Darth Punk.

What are you talking about, he literally gives no reasons why he scumreads darth punk?

purpose of the post is to show everyone else why he scumreads Darth Punk.

What are you talking about, he literally gives no reasons why he scumreads darth punk?

Read it again. Dann is using the quoted post as an example of why he thinks Darth Punk is scum.

Dann gives plenty of reasoning before and after that post as to why he scumreads Darth.

purpose of the post is to show everyone else why he scumreads Darth Punk.

What are you talking about, he literally gives no reasons why he scumreads darth punk?

Read it again. Dann is using the quoted post as an example of why he thinks Darth Punk is scum.

Dann gives plenty of reasoning before and after that post as to why he scumreads Darth.

There’s nothing scummy about accusing someone who literally 180ed with no new content of having made up reads

purpose of the post is to show everyone else why he scumreads Darth Punk.

What are you talking about, he literally gives no reasons why he scumreads darth punk?

Read it again. Dann is using the quoted post as an example of why he thinks Darth Punk is scum.

Dann gives plenty of reasoning before and after that post as to why he scumreads Darth.

There’s nothing scummy about accusing someone who literally 180ed with no new content of having made up reads

I didn't say Darth Punk was scummy in that post? My point was that Dann isn't scummy.

I didn't say Darth Punk was scummy in that post? My point was that Dann isn't scummy.

So dann said dp is scummy for doing something that you don’t think makes darth punk scummy but that makes dann town.

Explain how that makes sense.

1:

Oats snips 1 sentence out of my long post defending Dann. This is cherry-picking of the highest order. He also doesn't even bother to read the post I referenced correctly, because Dann was giving an example of why he thought Darth was scum, as I explain in my next post.

2:

Having completely missed the mark in his previous post, Oats then changes direction to why Darth Punk isn't scummy for scumreading Dann, which is irrelevant to the point I was making - I was defending Dann, not casing Punk at this point, and I'd explained everything already in my long defence post. This is an example of Oats moving the goalposts in a repeated attempt to win the argument, while not acknowledging any points that I've made.

3:

Oats asks for an explanation as to why I townread Dann even though I didn't at the time fully agree with his reasons for scumreading Darth, even though I had already explained it at length.

This is a strategy of circular arguing that achieves absolutely nothing, apart from making me lose the will to play the game.

The main point to consider here is how Oats isn't arguing in good faith - he's doing anything possible to disparage my points - even when he's clearly wrong, like in point 2, he moves the goalposts to another point that wasn't even relevant to what I was talking about, and then brings it back around to a circle by asking me to explain it again. Also, not once does he ever consider the matter from my point of view, or question anything that Darth has said, despite the obvious flaws in his case again Dann which I pointed out.

If I had continued repeating my explanations, do you think we would have got anywhere? No, other than confusing the thread and causing frustration, which is what scum want to achieve. The same with his argument against me supposedly bussing Roden - it went in circles, and nothing I say makes any difference to him. It smacks of having an agenda, because he asks plenty of questions but then never actually takes the answers into consideration.

The bolded in particular is something I don't understand from a townie pov.

Why is Oats so important to him that he has to pick him out of all people to constantly argue with ? Before he went to DP that is.
I don't feel obligated to even adress or interact with someone who makes me want to stop playing the game and if they're mafia, it's the others I have to convince and not Oats in this case.

So it reads bad as in that Luca is making up an obligation to argue with/about Oats that doesn't exist.

[Vivax]

The post in general screams of Luca being frustrated about being scumread by Oats in ways he tries hard to pick apart, but it suggests a high amount of defensiveness in that he only analyzes what makes Oats mafia based on what he's calling Luca scum for instead of looking at him as a whole.

[gob]

Yea im not buying this for a second

[SuperfluousNinja]

Okay Vivax, but realize that there are at least 4 of us in this game that have done that: Luca, Darth, Oats, myself. All four of us have engaged in conversations with each other that we found exceedingly unpleasant. There are probably even more than us and our connections, but with there being at least 4, you can't argue it is for sure a scum tell to engage with someone you don't like talking to, since at least one of us is town.

Personally I have done it because I consider the greater good to be the truth, and I'll endure unpleasantness to get there. I can't speak for the rest.

[Dannflor]

Wish we had some people actually have opinions to the hu Tao claim

Dann do you think mafia posts this when there's an unCCd investigative claim?

I still don't really understand why this makes oatsmaster town

I don't think shading a townie doing weird/outrageous stuff is outside of the scum playbook, like, at all

[Hu Tao]

makes no sense*

Okay yeah I was about to say

[Dannflor]

so here's the thing that bugging me about the whole teamliquid crew, but specifically keeps drawing me back to oatsmaster as scum:

the whole group seem to be pretty highly focused on being correct and consistent, and that being incorrect and/or having inconsistencies in your posts is a sign of scum. I'm not going to argue for or against that, just trying to establish a pattern I'm seeing as it informs my read of oatsmaster right now.

Okay, so, given that the basis for most of their scum cases are centered around the idea of "X contradicted himself" or "Y said this and then later said that instead" (I'm simplifying here I know but bear with me please), it would seem to me that any scum players in the TL group might try extra hard not to fall into the trap of making one of these mistakes and getting cased for it. Yeah?

"But, Dann!" I hear you saying "Don't town players try to stay consistent and appear towny too?" Well, yes. That's probably true. BUT, I think mafia who think like this are more likely to post in an inorganic matter in order to avoid entrapping themselves. They are going to be *more* conscious of making sure they don't show any inconsistencies and as such might post in an... awkward way to avoid it.

Alright let’s gooo

Is this a no for you?

I checked the possible roles and I’m 95% sure that cop checks can’t be altered

And, I have to say, this post just reads like someone who is trying not to incriminate themselves. Like, I don't know why it's more natural for any towny to say this than just "no." I really feel like Oats was preparing to call Hu Tao scum if they had anything but a straight up cop guilty, and I feel like this phrasing contains some fear from Oats that Hu Tao might have some result that isn't a cop check.

Like, what is the point of calling out cop checks specifically here?

It also gives Oats an out of being able to be like "Oh, yeah there's something that would explain a Watcher result or a Tracker result, I thought we were talking about COP CHECKS"

Guilty = cop

Then there's this reassertion that Hu Tao could have only been claiming a cop guilty, which honestly just makes very little sense. On this website, there are basically 0 normal roles that can affect a cop guilty. It sounds like TL Mafia Games are even lower powered. So in that case, why on earth would Hu Tao ask if anyone had anything to explain first if they were waiting on a cop guilty?

It really just feels like Oats was worried that Hu Tao had something incriminating that wasn't a straight up Cop, and Oats wanted to entrap Hu Tao into the narrative of having a cop guilty, so he could win the potential 1v1 if needed.

*****

anyway what I'm trying to say here is I think this is the case of someone trying not to incriminate themselves and as such their posting comes off as very awkward for it

and i think that's just more likely to come from scum

VOTE: oatsmaster

[Gypyx]

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