Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[DarthPunk]

Part of me would just rule ninja out based on engagement heuristics. But the fact that she started the game saying that active=townie basically rules it out as NAI.

[DarthPunk]

Oats what is the best active scum game you played on TL.

I want to do some meta.

[Oatsmaster]

Yeah ok I see what you are saying, but do you think that makes her mafia.

I don’t know, like in a vacuum id definitely think it’s scummy, but if I try to get into town!ninjas head I can definitely see her doing this.
So much fencesitting I’m having right now.

I’m going to take a look at ninja again and try to remove all the emotion stuff and just look at the play.

But yes, if we flipped Luca town, then we flipped you town, she was 100% gonna try to yeet me.

[Oatsmaster]

Oats what is the best active scum game you played on TL.

I want to do some meta.

It’s been so long man, I gotta look

[DarthPunk]

Meh. the yeet is just gob.

[Oatsmaster]

https://tl.net/forum/mafia/532537-mafia ... Oatsmaster
Maybe?
I know i have a couple games not reflected in the database but idk how to find them

[Oatsmaster]

Meh. the yeet is just gob.

it really is just gob

[DarthPunk]

https://tl.net/forum/mafia/532537-mafia ... Oatsmaster
Maybe?
I know i have a couple games not reflected in the database but idk how to find them

Thanks.

[Oatsmaster]

Okay so skimming through ninja's first day and now shows a pretty stark difference in how shes approaching the game, initially was very open and poked at different people, massively detailed reads list, good push on hu tao but then the further into day 2 we go she just devolves into seeming to want to force people to answer her questions a certain way, locked off reads of lowest post counts + me/vivax at this point.

Great fencesitting by me.
Ultimately I think that shes town, just doesnt have the right distance at this point to play like she did earlier which was better imo.

[Grackaroni]

I am just gonna blurt out everything i have thought about after yesterday. I've been able to follow the thread at work.

I think Luca vs DP is T/T. I am fairly certain of it. Both side's reasoning for other one being mafia makes sense (+ Grack on DP), but i don't think it makes either of them mafia. The more i read Luca's posts i think it just how he posts, rather than that he is trying to deceive. It looks annoying to me (i mean this with no offence) because from what i know appearing certain is a way you get the people you want on the chopping block. He did appear certain though lately, when he was willing to go 1v1 against DP, and that looked townie to me, because i don't think he thinks he can win that argument.

DP did some weird shit at the end of D1, yes. I still don't think it makes him mafia because he simply just doesn't have to do that. If there is a choice of getting rid of either Luca or Dunn D1 for him, what's the point of having a player who is defending themselves to death alive D2 over a fairly passive player? Again, being wrong doesn't make anyone mafia, and the misyeet could be easily blamed on someone else -- for instance on people who joined the wagon without much reasoning (as Luca himself said, almost everyone has thought he is scum in this game).

I also believe Ninja is town. This is more of a tone read than based on content, because i don't understand most of her point by point arguments (no offence again). I also can't place her in any mafia team in based on my reads.

Another person i think is town is Naerys. It's very hard for me to explain why i townread her. It's basically -- especially now during D2, whenever she posts it seems like there is some sort of thought going on in her head. Although i tend to have no idea what that is at each point, i think it's townie lol. ^^

I also think Grack is town. This is the weakest town read i have. I don't think he has done much and yeah technically he could be mafia for sure, i just don't think he is since every once in a while he comes in with a super smart comment or observation.

That leaves me with Dann/Oats/Vivax/gob/Hu Tao.

I have absolutely no idea what to think of Hu Tao. Every other time i read i think she is town and every other time i think she is mafia. I think it is slightly more likely to be town for the stupid gambit at the start of the day. I simply don't know what there is to achieve, if Luca is town OR if Luca is mafia (since basically that was the ONLY assumed wagon start D2 and Dunn flipping town)????

gob is most likely mafia for what i said.

Dann has faded off and i feel like that's strange. I need to look further into his reads on day 2 and mirror them to the fact he said he is purposely stepping down from trying to be a town leader. I don't understand why someone who is able to lead the town would not want to lead the town. If people are pushing his scumreads, then i guess that can make sense. If not, then there is a problem in what he's doing. I myself have found this day phase quite all over the place and there has been not so good direction or agreement between people. That's why i find his play weird this phase, and statistically scum can't keep up with "townie play" the more the game goes on.

Oats and Vivax i have to completely reread, as there is probably at least one mafia in those people. I haven't done that yet, but i am planning to start this evening.

Can we please now use the time we have and not yeet anyone when we have like 3-4 day self in the phase????
At least give people time to play friday evening and saturday, since that's the time i can acually be active.

I've been working off this post as a basis of a rethink on the game.

Definitely a good post. I largely agree with it. It's also what I look for from OutofOrder as town and what I think he often avoids doing as mafia because he knows he can keep his options open without risking being yeeted.

[DarthPunk]

I am just gonna blurt out everything i have thought about after yesterday. I've been able to follow the thread at work.

I think Luca vs DP is T/T. I am fairly certain of it. Both side's reasoning for other one being mafia makes sense (+ Grack on DP), but i don't think it makes either of them mafia. The more i read Luca's posts i think it just how he posts, rather than that he is trying to deceive. It looks annoying to me (i mean this with no offence) because from what i know appearing certain is a way you get the people you want on the chopping block. He did appear certain though lately, when he was willing to go 1v1 against DP, and that looked townie to me, because i don't think he thinks he can win that argument.

DP did some weird shit at the end of D1, yes. I still don't think it makes him mafia because he simply just doesn't have to do that. If there is a choice of getting rid of either Luca or Dunn D1 for him, what's the point of having a player who is defending themselves to death alive D2 over a fairly passive player? Again, being wrong doesn't make anyone mafia, and the misyeet could be easily blamed on someone else -- for instance on people who joined the wagon without much reasoning (as Luca himself said, almost everyone has thought he is scum in this game).

I also believe Ninja is town. This is more of a tone read than based on content, because i don't understand most of her point by point arguments (no offence again). I also can't place her in any mafia team in based on my reads.

Another person i think is town is Naerys. It's very hard for me to explain why i townread her. It's basically -- especially now during D2, whenever she posts it seems like there is some sort of thought going on in her head. Although i tend to have no idea what that is at each point, i think it's townie lol. ^^

I also think Grack is town. This is the weakest town read i have. I don't think he has done much and yeah technically he could be mafia for sure, i just don't think he is since every once in a while he comes in with a super smart comment or observation.

That leaves me with Dann/Oats/Vivax/gob/Hu Tao.

I have absolutely no idea what to think of Hu Tao. Every other time i read i think she is town and every other time i think she is mafia. I think it is slightly more likely to be town for the stupid gambit at the start of the day. I simply don't know what there is to achieve, if Luca is town OR if Luca is mafia (since basically that was the ONLY assumed wagon start D2 and Dunn flipping town)????

gob is most likely mafia for what i said.

Dann has faded off and i feel like that's strange. I need to look further into his reads on day 2 and mirror them to the fact he said he is purposely stepping down from trying to be a town leader. I don't understand why someone who is able to lead the town would not want to lead the town. If people are pushing his scumreads, then i guess that can make sense. If not, then there is a problem in what he's doing. I myself have found this day phase quite all over the place and there has been not so good direction or agreement between people. That's why i find his play weird this phase, and statistically scum can't keep up with "townie play" the more the game goes on.

Oats and Vivax i have to completely reread, as there is probably at least one mafia in those people. I haven't done that yet, but i am planning to start this evening.

Can we please now use the time we have and not yeet anyone when we have like 3-4 day self in the phase????
At least give people time to play friday evening and saturday, since that's the time i can acually be active.

I've been working off this post as a basis of a rethink on the game.

Definitely a good post.

I largely agree with it

. It's also what I look for from OutofOrder as town and what I think he often avoids doing as mafia because he knows he can keep his options open without risking being yeeted.

But doesn't this just mean you can agree and or disagree with anything about it at any time?

[Grackaroni]

I'm seeing scum equity between Gob/Oats. Oats started off by attacking Gob for his reasoning at the start of the game and Gob interacts with Oats more than any other player.

After re-reading a bit this post stuck out to me:

I legit cannot remember why I thought dannfloor was scummy... I had a good reason why he was the right vote at work but i forgot it.

VOTE: DarthPunk

so im switching gears.

Okay so I’m trying to rationalize this vote as mafia!gob

Assuming mafia!dann
This is a quick distraction play to discredit dp and sow some confusion, it’s extremely basic and likely to break down under more intense scrutiny especially once dann flips.

Assuming town!dann
I just don’t see any reason gob swaps here, it’s super striking and he’s been doing a good job of floating around without attracting too much suspicion and he votes the 1 person that thinks he’s mafia.

Idkkkkk I mean maybe I’m giving gob too much credit

This post approaches Gob from a weird angle to me. I don't think Oats was scum reading Gob at the time but his default approach is to consider whether it would make sense for Gob to make his vote as mafia based off the two possibilities for Dan's alignment. This seems like a very unnatural approach to me. The more normal reaction imo is just to try to get more information.

At the same time as Oats make this post DP is questioning me on my read on Gob, which leads to me voting Gob to try to get an answer for his Dann posts and Oats reacted like my vote was ridiculous.

Grack what are you doing cmon

At the end Gob never even responded about Dann he just came back into the thread and claimed mafia.

[Grackaroni]

oats, thoughts on a gob lim?

I’m pretty happy with a gob lim. Dude clearly has the ability to play and saying that he’s been playing more today shows a bit too much self awareness to be town I think. There’s no reason he should’ve played the way he did day 1 as town imo

I do also agree with Dannflor on this post. It stuck out to me as well as I was reading through.

[Grackaroni]

I am just gonna blurt out everything i have thought about after yesterday. I've been able to follow the thread at work.

I think Luca vs DP is T/T. I am fairly certain of it. Both side's reasoning for other one being mafia makes sense (+ Grack on DP), but i don't think it makes either of them mafia. The more i read Luca's posts i think it just how he posts, rather than that he is trying to deceive. It looks annoying to me (i mean this with no offence) because from what i know appearing certain is a way you get the people you want on the chopping block. He did appear certain though lately, when he was willing to go 1v1 against DP, and that looked townie to me, because i don't think he thinks he can win that argument.

DP did some weird shit at the end of D1, yes. I still don't think it makes him mafia because he simply just doesn't have to do that. If there is a choice of getting rid of either Luca or Dunn D1 for him, what's the point of having a player who is defending themselves to death alive D2 over a fairly passive player? Again, being wrong doesn't make anyone mafia, and the misyeet could be easily blamed on someone else -- for instance on people who joined the wagon without much reasoning (as Luca himself said, almost everyone has thought he is scum in this game).

I also believe Ninja is town. This is more of a tone read than based on content, because i don't understand most of her point by point arguments (no offence again). I also can't place her in any mafia team in based on my reads.

Another person i think is town is Naerys. It's very hard for me to explain why i townread her. It's basically -- especially now during D2, whenever she posts it seems like there is some sort of thought going on in her head. Although i tend to have no idea what that is at each point, i think it's townie lol. ^^

I also think Grack is town. This is the weakest town read i have. I don't think he has done much and yeah technically he could be mafia for sure, i just don't think he is since every once in a while he comes in with a super smart comment or observation.

That leaves me with Dann/Oats/Vivax/gob/Hu Tao.

I have absolutely no idea what to think of Hu Tao. Every other time i read i think she is town and every other time i think she is mafia. I think it is slightly more likely to be town for the stupid gambit at the start of the day. I simply don't know what there is to achieve, if Luca is town OR if Luca is mafia (since basically that was the ONLY assumed wagon start D2 and Dunn flipping town)????

gob is most likely mafia for what i said.

Dann has faded off and i feel like that's strange. I need to look further into his reads on day 2 and mirror them to the fact he said he is purposely stepping down from trying to be a town leader. I don't understand why someone who is able to lead the town would not want to lead the town. If people are pushing his scumreads, then i guess that can make sense. If not, then there is a problem in what he's doing. I myself have found this day phase quite all over the place and there has been not so good direction or agreement between people. That's why i find his play weird this phase, and statistically scum can't keep up with "townie play" the more the game goes on.

Oats and Vivax i have to completely reread, as there is probably at least one mafia in those people. I haven't done that yet, but i am planning to start this evening.

Can we please now use the time we have and not yeet anyone when we have like 3-4 day self in the phase????
At least give people time to play friday evening and saturday, since that's the time i can acually be active.

I've been working off this post as a basis of a rethink on the game.

Definitely a good post.

I largely agree with it

. It's also what I look for from OutofOrder as town and what I think he often avoids doing as mafia because he knows he can keep his options open without risking being yeeted.

But doesn't this just mean you can agree and or disagree with anything about it at any time?

Ninja town read is correct.

His Naerys read seems reasonable as well and doesn't seem like something made up.

He's definitely right at the very least that Luca/you are not the right idea for today's yeet.

Somehow he even has me in the town list as well.

[Oatsmaster]

At the same time as Oats make this post DP is questioning me on my read on Gob, which leads to me voting Gob to try to get an answer for his Dann posts and Oats reacted like my vote was ridiculous.

Gob was never dying there, which was the intent I placed on your vote

[Oatsmaster]

oats, thoughts on a gob lim?

I’m pretty happy with a gob lim. Dude clearly has the ability to play and saying that he’s been playing more today shows a bit too much self awareness to be town I think. There’s no reason he should’ve played the way he did day 1 as town imo

I do also agree with Dannflor on this post. It stuck out to me as well as I was reading through.

Explain please?

[Grackaroni]

oats, thoughts on a gob lim?

I’m pretty happy with a gob lim. Dude clearly has the ability to play and saying that he’s been playing more today shows a bit too much self awareness to be town I think. There’s no reason he should’ve played the way he did day 1 as town imo

I do also agree with Dannflor on this post. It stuck out to me as well as I was reading through.

Explain please?

I think for me it's that you were more hedging on Gob the previous day saying that you've seen many types of players like Gob flip town in the past but here when you're put on the spot by DP to make a decision you respond decisively that he couldn't have played day 1 the way he has as town.

I'd be curious if you read through his past games at all. I haven't but I know you've been looking through other players' games.

[Oatsmaster]

oats, thoughts on a gob lim?

I’m pretty happy with a gob lim. Dude clearly has the ability to play and saying that he’s been playing more today shows a bit too much self awareness to be town I think. There’s no reason he should’ve played the way he did day 1 as town imo

I do also agree with Dannflor on this post. It stuck out to me as well as I was reading through.

Explain please?

I think for me it's that you were more hedging on Gob the previous day saying that you've seen many types of players like Gob flip town in the past but here when you're put on the spot by DP to make a decision you respond decisively that he couldn't have played day 1 the way he has as town.

I'd be curious if you read through his past games at all. I haven't but I know you've been looking through other players' games.

With the information I have on day 2 gob, I have made the analysis on day 1 gob. Which is what I said…

[Grackaroni]

At the same time as Oats make this post DP is questioning me on my read on Gob, which leads to me voting Gob to try to get an answer for his Dann posts and Oats reacted like my vote was ridiculous.

Gob was never dying there, which was the intent I placed on your vote

Could at least have put some pressure on him to give reasons behind his votes.

[DarthPunk]

I am just gonna blurt out everything i have thought about after yesterday. I've been able to follow the thread at work.

I think Luca vs DP is T/T. I am fairly certain of it. Both side's reasoning for other one being mafia makes sense (+ Grack on DP), but i don't think it makes either of them mafia. The more i read Luca's posts i think it just how he posts, rather than that he is trying to deceive. It looks annoying to me (i mean this with no offence) because from what i know appearing certain is a way you get the people you want on the chopping block. He did appear certain though lately, when he was willing to go 1v1 against DP, and that looked townie to me, because i don't think he thinks he can win that argument.

DP did some weird shit at the end of D1, yes. I still don't think it makes him mafia because he simply just doesn't have to do that. If there is a choice of getting rid of either Luca or Dunn D1 for him, what's the point of having a player who is defending themselves to death alive D2 over a fairly passive player? Again, being wrong doesn't make anyone mafia, and the misyeet could be easily blamed on someone else -- for instance on people who joined the wagon without much reasoning (as Luca himself said, almost everyone has thought he is scum in this game).

I also believe Ninja is town. This is more of a tone read than based on content, because i don't understand most of her point by point arguments (no offence again). I also can't place her in any mafia team in based on my reads.

Another person i think is town is Naerys. It's very hard for me to explain why i townread her. It's basically -- especially now during D2, whenever she posts it seems like there is some sort of thought going on in her head. Although i tend to have no idea what that is at each point, i think it's townie lol. ^^

I also think Grack is town. This is the weakest town read i have. I don't think he has done much and yeah technically he could be mafia for sure, i just don't think he is since every once in a while he comes in with a super smart comment or observation.

That leaves me with Dann/Oats/Vivax/gob/Hu Tao.

I have absolutely no idea what to think of Hu Tao. Every other time i read i think she is town and every other time i think she is mafia. I think it is slightly more likely to be town for the stupid gambit at the start of the day. I simply don't know what there is to achieve, if Luca is town OR if Luca is mafia (since basically that was the ONLY assumed wagon start D2 and Dunn flipping town)????

gob is most likely mafia for what i said.

Dann has faded off and i feel like that's strange. I need to look further into his reads on day 2 and mirror them to the fact he said he is purposely stepping down from trying to be a town leader. I don't understand why someone who is able to lead the town would not want to lead the town. If people are pushing his scumreads, then i guess that can make sense. If not, then there is a problem in what he's doing. I myself have found this day phase quite all over the place and there has been not so good direction or agreement between people. That's why i find his play weird this phase, and statistically scum can't keep up with "townie play" the more the game goes on.

Oats and Vivax i have to completely reread, as there is probably at least one mafia in those people. I haven't done that yet, but i am planning to start this evening.

Can we please now use the time we have and not yeet anyone when we have like 3-4 day self in the phase????
At least give people time to play friday evening and saturday, since that's the time i can acually be active.

I've been working off this post as a basis of a rethink on the game.

Definitely a good post.

I largely agree with it

. It's also what I look for from OutofOrder as town and what I think he often avoids doing as mafia because he knows he can keep his options open without risking being yeeted.

But doesn't this just mean you can agree and or disagree with anything about it at any time?

Ninja town read is correct.

His Naerys read seems reasonable as well and doesn't seem like something made up.

He's definitely right at the very least that

Luca/you are not the right idea for today's yeet.

Somehow he even has me in the town list as well.

why you hedging here, can you just give your Luca/dp read right now?

[Grackaroni]

I'm seeing scum equity between Gob/Oats. Oats started off by attacking Gob for his reasoning at the start of the game and Gob interacts with Oats more than any other player.

After re-reading a bit this post stuck out to me:

I legit cannot remember why I thought dannfloor was scummy... I had a good reason why he was the right vote at work but i forgot it.

VOTE: DarthPunk

so im switching gears.

Okay so I’m trying to rationalize this vote as mafia!gob

Assuming mafia!dann
This is a quick distraction play to discredit dp and sow some confusion, it’s extremely basic and likely to break down under more intense scrutiny especially once dann flips.

Assuming town!dann
I just don’t see any reason gob swaps here, it’s super striking and he’s been doing a good job of floating around without attracting too much suspicion and he votes the 1 person that thinks he’s mafia.

Idkkkkk I mean maybe I’m giving gob too much credit

This post approaches Gob from a weird angle to me. I don't think Oats was scum reading Gob at the time but his default approach is to consider whether it would make sense for Gob to make his vote as mafia based off the two possibilities for Dan's alignment. This seems like a very unnatural approach to me. The more normal reaction imo is just to try to get more information.

At the same time as Oats make this post DP is questioning me on my read on Gob, which leads to me voting Gob to try to get an answer for his Dann posts and Oats reacted like my vote was ridiculous.

Grack what are you doing cmon

At the end Gob never even responded about Dann he just came back into the thread and claimed mafia.

I also want to follow up on this.

The ending of Oats' post seems crafted/unnatural as well with the 'idkkkkkk i mean maybe I'm giving gob too much credit'.

This is a very big tell for me. If a post seems to be scum-motivated/seems like it's coming from an unnatural place and at the same time utilizes stilted language/unnatural speech, very likely it's coming from scum.

[Oatsmaster]

At the same time as Oats make this post DP is questioning me on my read on Gob, which leads to me voting Gob to try to get an answer for his Dann posts and Oats reacted like my vote was ridiculous.

Gob was never dying there, which was the intent I placed on your vote

Could at least have put some pressure on him to give reasons behind his votes.

I realize this now yes, that makes sense

[Oatsmaster]

This is a very big tell for me. If a post seems to be scum-motivated/seems like it's coming from an unnatural place and at the same time utilizes stilted language/unnatural speech, very likely it's coming from scum.

Unlucky

[Grackaroni]

I am just gonna blurt out everything i have thought about after yesterday. I've been able to follow the thread at work.

I think Luca vs DP is T/T. I am fairly certain of it. Both side's reasoning for other one being mafia makes sense (+ Grack on DP), but i don't think it makes either of them mafia. The more i read Luca's posts i think it just how he posts, rather than that he is trying to deceive. It looks annoying to me (i mean this with no offence) because from what i know appearing certain is a way you get the people you want on the chopping block. He did appear certain though lately, when he was willing to go 1v1 against DP, and that looked townie to me, because i don't think he thinks he can win that argument.

DP did some weird shit at the end of D1, yes. I still don't think it makes him mafia because he simply just doesn't have to do that. If there is a choice of getting rid of either Luca or Dunn D1 for him, what's the point of having a player who is defending themselves to death alive D2 over a fairly passive player? Again, being wrong doesn't make anyone mafia, and the misyeet could be easily blamed on someone else -- for instance on people who joined the wagon without much reasoning (as Luca himself said, almost everyone has thought he is scum in this game).

I also believe Ninja is town. This is more of a tone read than based on content, because i don't understand most of her point by point arguments (no offence again). I also can't place her in any mafia team in based on my reads.

Another person i think is town is Naerys. It's very hard for me to explain why i townread her. It's basically -- especially now during D2, whenever she posts it seems like there is some sort of thought going on in her head. Although i tend to have no idea what that is at each point, i think it's townie lol. ^^

I also think Grack is town. This is the weakest town read i have. I don't think he has done much and yeah technically he could be mafia for sure, i just don't think he is since every once in a while he comes in with a super smart comment or observation.

That leaves me with Dann/Oats/Vivax/gob/Hu Tao.

I have absolutely no idea what to think of Hu Tao. Every other time i read i think she is town and every other time i think she is mafia. I think it is slightly more likely to be town for the stupid gambit at the start of the day. I simply don't know what there is to achieve, if Luca is town OR if Luca is mafia (since basically that was the ONLY assumed wagon start D2 and Dunn flipping town)????

gob is most likely mafia for what i said.

Dann has faded off and i feel like that's strange. I need to look further into his reads on day 2 and mirror them to the fact he said he is purposely stepping down from trying to be a town leader. I don't understand why someone who is able to lead the town would not want to lead the town. If people are pushing his scumreads, then i guess that can make sense. If not, then there is a problem in what he's doing. I myself have found this day phase quite all over the place and there has been not so good direction or agreement between people. That's why i find his play weird this phase, and statistically scum can't keep up with "townie play" the more the game goes on.

Oats and Vivax i have to completely reread, as there is probably at least one mafia in those people. I haven't done that yet, but i am planning to start this evening.

Can we please now use the time we have and not yeet anyone when we have like 3-4 day self in the phase????
At least give people time to play friday evening and saturday, since that's the time i can acually be active.

I've been working off this post as a basis of a rethink on the game.

Definitely a good post.

I largely agree with it

. It's also what I look for from OutofOrder as town and what I think he often avoids doing as mafia because he knows he can keep his options open without risking being yeeted.

But doesn't this just mean you can agree and or disagree with anything about it at any time?

Ninja town read is correct.

His Naerys read seems reasonable as well and doesn't seem like something made up.

He's definitely right at the very least that

Luca/you are not the right idea for today's yeet.

Somehow he even has me in the town list as well.

why you hedging here, can you just give your Luca/dp read right now?

I don't even care honestly.

I'm feeling pretty confident I've largely solved the game with Gob/Oats after my last post. I've had success yeeting scum like this in the past.

Most likely OutofOrder is right and it's TvT.

[Oatsmaster]

Ngl, I would be surprised if grack got more mafia than town with that tell