Mini Normal 2325 | Game Over

[Luca Blight]

do we agree that scum lies in Me / psyche / jackson / black at least

if anyone (not jackson) disagrees with this statement please come fowards

I haven't fully ruled out Luca unfortunately, but your four is the likeliest pool yes

I agree

I misread this post, but still, the implication is that I'm not one of the main suspects. Others such as gypyx had ruled me out of being scum altogether, and Ketchup has pretty consistently townread me throughout the game. Everyone agreed to me claiming last in the mass-claim, which again shows that I was well town-read. So as you can see, I would have had no need to suddenly claim masons if I were scum, and it would have been only counter-productive.

[Luca Blight]

I have to go to sleep now. Hopefully no-one will have made any rash decisions by the time I wake up.

[Luca Blight]

honestly i'm really hoping it's psyche / jackson / luca cause that's basically the only scumteam i have the mental capacity to kill right now

I think it has to be this or psyche / black / ower

There is no other possible teams imo

Why can't you consider that gypyx might be scum?

[Luca Blight]

I get gypyx's energy seems townie, I thought so too, but psyche in my opinion has been townier without pushing agendas or manipulating anything.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

These early reads seem a bit mindless… let’s slow down a bit and think about it.

I’m here by the way.

I get what you're saying, but without the early reads, mindless though they may be, there would be nothing to slow down and think about.

These early reads seem a bit mindless… let’s slow down a bit and think about it.

I’m here by the way.

I get what you're saying, but without the early reads, mindless though they may be, there would be nothing to slow down and think about.

Seems like Pysche was using this same logic, but you called them out for it?

I'm not scumreading psyche for the fact he has reads early doors, but for the tone of his posts, as I did my best to explain.

Fair enough. Maybe better to say I liked Luca's reasoning. A lot of people had put votes down on Bug without explaining really so I wanted something a little more formal. Post 26 felt good when I read the ISO on him.

Didn't you refer to my post 26 as 'mindless' before? What's changed?

Luca raises some good anti-Bugs points in 145 which have begun to persuade me that Bugs is maybe dodgier than I first thought. Nowhere close to voting them tho. Let’s try something new.

Thanks!

Could I ask you to elaborate more on your thoughts regarding Bugs?

Sure. Basically everything you’ve recently said has led me further and further from my original guess that Bugs was town. I thought at first that if bugs were mafia, they wouldn’t be asking random questions (like the multitasking one and asking if I was an alt) because it’s just drawing unnecessary attention to themselves. It’s not like asking questions demonstrates that your town, so I didn’t think a mafia would be asking these kind of questions. But you raise so many good points that you’re making me doubt my initial read; maybe Bugs is nervous, or is double bluffing me. Aware that there are liars among us though, I don’t want to let myself get fully swayed by you (Luca) yet on Bugs, especially as my vote at this point would be the fifth vote on Bugs which is dangerously close to voting them off. All it takes them is one mafia and one over enthusiastic townie to vote Bugs off and that seals it (for better or for worse, I can’t tell at this point). I haven’t felt anything good come out of Project yet, maybe if they had accused someone else but I get to be in the fortunate position of distrusting anyone who votes me because they’re wrong (:
So I’ll keep my vote on Project for now until something better comes up. I honestly doubt I’ll be successful in starting a wagon, because Bugs is under way more fire atm it seems, but I’d rather go with my gut than go with the herd.

This reads town to me. I’m not sure on Black at the moment but definitely not in a place to name them mafia.

Yeah, I could be wrong about Ketchup. There are definitely some townie elements to his play. He certainly seems to scumhunt/townhunt in a unique sort of way that I find difficult to resonate with, though. Of course, that is to be expected from newer players to an extent.

As for you, Jacob, you are hardly filling me with confidence. Can I get your general thoughts on the game, as well as an answer to my 171?

Luca raises some good anti-Bugs points in 145 which have begun to persuade me that Bugs is maybe dodgier than I first thought. Nowhere close to voting them tho. Let’s try something new.

Thanks!

Could I ask you to elaborate more on your thoughts regarding Bugs?

Sure. Basically everything you’ve recently said has led me further and further from my original guess that Bugs was town. I thought at first that if bugs were mafia, they wouldn’t be asking random questions (like the multitasking one and asking if I was an alt) because it’s just drawing unnecessary attention to themselves. It’s not like asking questions demonstrates that your town, so I didn’t think a mafia would be asking these kind of questions. But you raise so many good points that you’re making me doubt my initial read; maybe Bugs is nervous, or is double bluffing me. Aware that there are liars among us though, I don’t want to let myself get fully swayed by you (Luca) yet on Bugs, especially as my vote at this point would be the fifth vote on Bugs which is dangerously close to voting them off. All it takes them is one mafia and one over enthusiastic townie to vote Bugs off and that seals it (for better or for worse, I can’t tell at this point). I haven’t felt anything good come out of Project yet, maybe if they had accused someone else but I get to be in the fortunate position of distrusting anyone who votes me because they’re wrong (:
So I’ll keep my vote on Project for now until something better comes up. I honestly doubt I’ll be successful in starting a wagon, because Bugs is under way more fire atm it seems, but I’d rather go with my gut than go with the herd.

This reads town to me. I’m not sure on Black at the moment but definitely not in a place to name them mafia.

Yeah, I could be wrong about Ketchup. There are definitely some townie elements to his play. He certainly seems to scumhunt/townhunt in a unique sort of way that I find difficult to resonate with, though. Of course, that is to be expected from newer players to an extent.

As for you, Jacob, you are hardly filling me with confidence. Can I get your general thoughts on the game, as well as an answer to my 171?

Did I really? If so my bad. That post was mostly aimed at not the first phase stuff so sorry if it seemed like I was on you. I just wanted something more though out then “you voted me so f you” mentality.

Sorry if I’m not convincing you of my township, why poke at me though? You’ve been out against everyone in the game practically

D1 essentially is about poking around in the dark to try and make sense of what's going on, from a town perspective. I feel like you're deflecting a bit with that last sentence. Do you think

'being out against everyone'

is scummy, or are you just finding my playing style frustrating?

Also, again, can I get your general thoughts on the game? I feel like you've only spoken about a few players in this game so far (namely Bugs, Ketchup and myself.)

you sure went after your mason partner a lot

Yes, I tried to distance so neither of us would be night killed, and if one of us was then scum wouldn't guess who the other mason was.

That's the reason I crumbed like I did - so that we could otherwise distance. As I said, jacob even asked me to put some heat on him so he wouldn't be night-killed.

That's why today I said I thought Jackson was bussing gypyx - so that if we didn't claim then tomorrow we might both still be alive.

[Luca Blight]

I get gypyx's energy seems townie, I thought so too, but psyche in my opinion has been townier without pushing agendas or manipulating anything.

He's really not been

Well, if you're town then please be open-minded, that's all I ask.

[Luca Blight]

I'm also willing to consider gypyx as town, although it seems virtually impossible from my perspective now, but you will note I still haven't voted just in case.

[Luca Blight]

Did our best to keep it lowkey so that we could survive with the entire masonry intact after you go out

You don't know that you'll survive the night, though

The reason we held back the claim was so that we could survive the night and announce it tomorrow, but people were getting trigger-happy with votes and misled by an incomplete picture of the role claims, so I thought it was in the best interest to claim now.

That's why I asked you questions like whether your psyche scumread was influenced by the setup.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

These early reads seem a bit mindless… let’s slow down a bit and think about it.

I’m here by the way.

I get what you're saying, but without the early reads, mindless though they may be, there would be nothing to slow down and think about.

These early reads seem a bit mindless… let’s slow down a bit and think about it.

I’m here by the way.

I get what you're saying, but without the early reads, mindless though they may be, there would be nothing to slow down and think about.

Seems like Pysche was using this same logic, but you called them out for it?

I'm not scumreading psyche for the fact he has reads early doors, but for the tone of his posts, as I did my best to explain.

Fair enough. Maybe better to say I liked Luca's reasoning. A lot of people had put votes down on Bug without explaining really so I wanted something a little more formal. Post 26 felt good when I read the ISO on him.

Didn't you refer to my post 26 as 'mindless' before? What's changed?

Luca raises some good anti-Bugs points in 145 which have begun to persuade me that Bugs is maybe dodgier than I first thought. Nowhere close to voting them tho. Let’s try something new.

Thanks!

Could I ask you to elaborate more on your thoughts regarding Bugs?

Sure. Basically everything you’ve recently said has led me further and further from my original guess that Bugs was town. I thought at first that if bugs were mafia, they wouldn’t be asking random questions (like the multitasking one and asking if I was an alt) because it’s just drawing unnecessary attention to themselves. It’s not like asking questions demonstrates that your town, so I didn’t think a mafia would be asking these kind of questions. But you raise so many good points that you’re making me doubt my initial read; maybe Bugs is nervous, or is double bluffing me. Aware that there are liars among us though, I don’t want to let myself get fully swayed by you (Luca) yet on Bugs, especially as my vote at this point would be the fifth vote on Bugs which is dangerously close to voting them off. All it takes them is one mafia and one over enthusiastic townie to vote Bugs off and that seals it (for better or for worse, I can’t tell at this point). I haven’t felt anything good come out of Project yet, maybe if they had accused someone else but I get to be in the fortunate position of distrusting anyone who votes me because they’re wrong (:
So I’ll keep my vote on Project for now until something better comes up. I honestly doubt I’ll be successful in starting a wagon, because Bugs is under way more fire atm it seems, but I’d rather go with my gut than go with the herd.

This reads town to me. I’m not sure on Black at the moment but definitely not in a place to name them mafia.

Yeah, I could be wrong about Ketchup. There are definitely some townie elements to his play. He certainly seems to scumhunt/townhunt in a unique sort of way that I find difficult to resonate with, though. Of course, that is to be expected from newer players to an extent.

As for you, Jacob, you are hardly filling me with confidence. Can I get your general thoughts on the game, as well as an answer to my 171?

Luca raises some good anti-Bugs points in 145 which have begun to persuade me that Bugs is maybe dodgier than I first thought. Nowhere close to voting them tho. Let’s try something new.

Thanks!

Could I ask you to elaborate more on your thoughts regarding Bugs?

Sure. Basically everything you’ve recently said has led me further and further from my original guess that Bugs was town. I thought at first that if bugs were mafia, they wouldn’t be asking random questions (like the multitasking one and asking if I was an alt) because it’s just drawing unnecessary attention to themselves. It’s not like asking questions demonstrates that your town, so I didn’t think a mafia would be asking these kind of questions. But you raise so many good points that you’re making me doubt my initial read; maybe Bugs is nervous, or is double bluffing me. Aware that there are liars among us though, I don’t want to let myself get fully swayed by you (Luca) yet on Bugs, especially as my vote at this point would be the fifth vote on Bugs which is dangerously close to voting them off. All it takes them is one mafia and one over enthusiastic townie to vote Bugs off and that seals it (for better or for worse, I can’t tell at this point). I haven’t felt anything good come out of Project yet, maybe if they had accused someone else but I get to be in the fortunate position of distrusting anyone who votes me because they’re wrong (:
So I’ll keep my vote on Project for now until something better comes up. I honestly doubt I’ll be successful in starting a wagon, because Bugs is under way more fire atm it seems, but I’d rather go with my gut than go with the herd.

This reads town to me. I’m not sure on Black at the moment but definitely not in a place to name them mafia.

Yeah, I could be wrong about Ketchup. There are definitely some townie elements to his play. He certainly seems to scumhunt/townhunt in a unique sort of way that I find difficult to resonate with, though. Of course, that is to be expected from newer players to an extent.

As for you, Jacob, you are hardly filling me with confidence. Can I get your general thoughts on the game, as well as an answer to my 171?

Did I really? If so my bad. That post was mostly aimed at not the first phase stuff so sorry if it seemed like I was on you. I just wanted something more though out then “you voted me so f you” mentality.

Sorry if I’m not convincing you of my township, why poke at me though? You’ve been out against everyone in the game practically

D1 essentially is about poking around in the dark to try and make sense of what's going on, from a town perspective. I feel like you're deflecting a bit with that last sentence. Do you think

'being out against everyone'

is scummy, or are you just finding my playing style frustrating?

Also, again, can I get your general thoughts on the game? I feel like you've only spoken about a few players in this game so far (namely Bugs, Ketchup and myself.)

you sure went after your mason partner a lot

Yes, I tried to distance so neither of us would be night killed, and if one of us was then scum wouldn't guess who the other mason was.

That's the reason I crumbed like I did - so that we could otherwise distance. As I said, jacob even asked me to put some heat on him so he wouldn't be night-killed.

That's why today I said I thought Jackson was bussing gypyx - so that if we didn't claim then tomorrow we might both still be alive.

Ok that makes some sense, but if you were killed and we found your crumbs we'd probably be able to put it together. And with all the great analysis you were putting out, your death was not off the cards, no?

I don't think my crumbs were that easy to find if you didn't know what to look for, especially in relation to who my fellow mason was.

My death was indeed never off the cards, which, again, is why I tried to make out like I suspected Jacob/Jackson so that scum would think I'm on the wrong track and be less likely to kill me. I did expect to die N1 despite being wrong on Bugs.

[Luca Blight]

I get gypyx's energy seems townie, I thought so too, but psyche in my opinion has been townier without pushing agendas or manipulating anything.

He's really not been

Well, if you're town then please be open-minded, that's all I ask.

Says the masons pushing to eliminate gypyx asap

But I'm not? I've said time and again to hold fire and wait while we work everything out.

From my perspective it's very unlikely that gypyx is town here, but I'm still willing to consider everything once again tomorrow with a clear head.

[Luca Blight]

Jackson, Luca, one of you. What were the last things Jacob said in the mason thread before he replaced out?

I remember without looking that he said maybe we should take Dann's reads into account as he flipped town.

[Luca Blight]

I think by that time Jacob wasn't really invested in the game.

[Luca Blight]

Jackson, Luca, one of you. What were the last things Jacob said in the mason thread before he replaced out?

I remember without looking that he said maybe we should take Dann's reads into account as he flipped town.

despite the fact that Dann's 3 main scum reads were all confirmed town?

Now look at the thread and tell me, specifically(if paraphrased), what were Jacob's last two messages in the mason PT?

Yes, as I said Jacob was barely playing the game by that point.

I think his second to last message was 'I'm here btw' or something.

[Luca Blight]

Jackson, Luca, one of you. What were the last things Jacob said in the mason thread before he replaced out?

On night start, he said that he was here and that it probably makes sense to look at Dann's reads since he's confirmed town. Then he was goneso and in I pop

If I were a mason who had already started building a rapport with my fellow mason, I don't think I'd leave without an apology or a goodbye

You would make a great mason.

[Luca Blight]

I have to go for tea in like 60 seconds, rushed post incoming.

Jacob's last post is 1037

Why would a Mason leave on accusing his partner?

Luca also accused him in 1049

Why end it all like this? And don't just say lack of investment

Back soon

I've already explained how we deliberately tried to distance to avoid being discovered as masons.

Jacob just faded away from the game - simple as that. I have no other explanation.

[Luca Blight]

I'm going now, will be busy tomorrow so might be on a fair bit later. Will consider everything then.

[Luca Blight]

Ketchup, I get the impression that you're getting sucked into thinking gypyx is town based on her determination and activity. Am I right?

[Luca Blight]

Ketchup, I get the impression that you're getting sucked into thinking gypyx is town based on her determination and activity. Am I right?

Luca, do you agree about my comment around killing outside of me/psyche

do you also not think my determination is not not town!indicative?

I think it's town-indicative, even though I don't think you're town. That's the danger here, I fear.

I've only just noticed the post in question, so I will consider it now.

[Luca Blight]

Ketchup, I get the impression that you're getting sucked into thinking gypyx is town based on her determination and activity. Am I right?

Luca, do you agree about my comment around killing outside of me/psyche

do you also not think my determination is not not town!indicative?

I think it's town-indicative, even though I don't think you're town. That's the danger here, I fear.

I've only just noticed the post in question, so I will consider it now.

sorry i don't really get it, "what" is the danger?

The danger of Ketchup believing in you, because in many ways you are quite believable. I just feel deep in my soul that psyche is telling the truth, and I don't get the same feeling from you at all. You are surface-level townie, I'll give you that.

[Luca Blight]

Ketchup, I get the impression that you're getting sucked into thinking gypyx is town based on her determination and activity. Am I right?

I certainly thought so yesterday. Today I am willing to be more open-minded

Ok, glad to hear it.

It really reminds me of my best scum game where I was super motivated and active in ELO, and a player named Elements, who was town and telling the truth, was quite resigned just like psyche, because they knew they couldn't compete with me in that form.

Psyche's posts ring with honesty, while gypyx really feels as though she has been pushing an agenda for the most part.

[Luca Blight]

Have you ever been a mason before?

At least once that I remember clearly but probably twice before.

Yes, I will set aside some time to analyse the situation.

[Luca Blight]

I understand that if you're actually town then you must be fuming, as I would be in your situation.

If you're scum then probably the same, as you should win the 1v1 vs psyche based on effort and activity.

[Luca Blight]

I believe psyche when he said he knew he couldn't compete with you, and that the moment of his claim was going to be his highlight. I just believe him, for his progression and the tone of his posts.

I won't go on as I don't want to frustrate you further, but I promise I will give it some careful consideration, as well regarding your wish to eliminate outworld today.

[Luca Blight]

I feel like I'm almost willing to bet the game on it being gypyx/Black/Outworld at this stage.

Ketchup, how do you feel about this?

[Luca Blight]

I feel like gypyx has done a great job at causing confusion this game, particularly today but also on D2.

[Luca Blight]

I feel like I'm almost willing to bet the game on it being gypyx/Black/Outworld at this stage.

Ketchup, how do you feel about this?

5. Odd-night vig, 1-shot watcher, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons


Setup might be infeasible.

Come on, why guesswork, Outworld is coming in scum again and again.

Don't base it on the setup - many a game has been lost from incorrect setup spec.

I agree that outworld is scum, I'm just concerned that if the masons get killed off then you might be swayed by gypyx, who can be quite convincing, or Black who is equally so.

[Luca Blight]

I think for the sake of the game, this needs to be done.

VOTE: gypyx

E-1

If it's wrong, then we were probably always doomed to lose anyway. We need to shut this noise off to be able to process the game properly on the following days, in my opinion. gypyx is causing way too many distractions.

[Luca Blight]

UNVOTE:

For Ketchup

[Luca Blight]

congratulations to honorary scumteam members jacksonVirgo and Luca Blight for their win in mini 2325

that would probably be a scummy worthy performance if you actually had a red PM

I'm sorry but like. If you think this is scum, that's wild.

You keep saying that

Because that's something scum never says. Gypyx would never say that as scum. Like come on.

That's quite naive.

What does gypyx have to lose by saying that as this point?

[Luca Blight]

I wouldn't mind voting Black out today.

I understand it's a tad more risky than Outworld, but if it's correct then it solves a lot of problems going into the next day.

[Luca Blight]

At this point, i just want to get this day over and see a flip.

VOTE: Outworld

Might be E-1, not sure.

[Luca Blight]

I wouldn't mind voting Black out today.

I understand it's a tad more risky than Outworld, but if it's correct then it solves a lot of problems going into the next day.

There is confirmed scum in Gypyx/Psyche and you want to vote for me?

I've explained already - you are very likely to be scum from my point of view, and I think we gain more from taking such a risk than taking the easier option now, as it answers more questions and there would be less confusion in the later days.

I've voted Outworld anyway.

[Luca Blight]

I'm going to re-read Psyche again to either reaffirm or reconsider my read there, I think that's the best thing I can do right now.

[Luca Blight]

LITTERALLY IF ANYONE MANAGES TO MAKE A GOOD ARGUMENT IN FAVOR OF 1-SHOT WATCHER BEING A CONSISTENT ROLE I *WILL* SELF VOTE

btw the offer still stands

other games have had one-shot watchers, so why wouldn't it be a possible role?

[Luca Blight]

Mini Normal 2193: Setup:
Vanilla Townie x5, Town Neighborizer, Town Friendly Neighbor, Town 1-shot Vigilante, Town 2-shot Watcher vs Mafia Goon, Mafia Informed (this game has a Watcher), Mafia Tracker

[Luca Blight]

Mini Normal 2193: Setup:
Vanilla Townie x5, Town Neighborizer, Town Friendly Neighbor, Town 1-shot Vigilante, Town 2-shot Watcher vs Mafia Goon, Mafia Informed (this game has a Watcher), Mafia Tracker

2 shot is miles different from 1-shot, like, that's DOUBLE the power

So it could be argued, then, that's it's too strong, as it's very likely to catch scum who kill the conf-town vig.

I don't like basing things so heavily on setup spec, as it doesn't tend to end well. We've now established that it's not an impossibility that Psyche could be a Watcher. End of discussion.

[Luca Blight]

I'll be honest, the ridiculous amount of posts have made me lose interest a bit in the game. I don't know why exactly, but that's just how I feel currently. Hopefully I'll get motivated enough to do some analysis soon, the priority being to sort between psyche and gypyx.

[Luca Blight]

UNVOTE:

Can't even remember if I was still voting Outworld, but will give him a chance to catch-up.

I would appreciate more analysis from psyche if possible, to reassure me that my read is correct. I know it's hard as I'm now suffering from the same lack of motivation myself.

[Luca Blight]

I thought outworld/Black were likely partnered for a large part of the game. Fair play to psyche - his fake claim was really believable.

As I mentioned in the Masons chat, I was considering that I was wrong about gypyx/psyche but I never got around to reviewing it. Timezones played a big part - I was asleep when both Titus and gypyx were hammered.

Congrats scum team. A big shout out to Ketchup as well - really impressive performance from you in general, and especially considering it was your first game.

[Luca Blight]

Btw, that has to be one of the laziest replace-ins I've seen from Titus.

If you're not going to bother playing the game or show any interest in it, why replace-in?