Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[SuperfluousNinja]

Look, if you are content to let Vivax play you like a fiddle, I guess I don't need to intervene. Hu Tao, Naerys, Luca and myself can handle the game from here so I don't really see much value in trying to get through to you at this point.

Let me take a page out of your book for a change?

Are you implying that DP is stupid for townreading me?

Stupid is not the word I would use. But I do think he's wrong, yes.

Now answer my FUCKING question.

[SuperfluousNinja]

For real I am really fucking tired of you ignoring it. I asked you several times now. Answer the fucking thing. Now.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I dunno Vivax, how can you scumread Luca for not giving a shit about this super important wagon analysis and then ignore MY wagon analysis?

[Vivax]

Ninja, everyone is inconsistent. The trick is finding who is trying their hardest not to be.

I guess that doesn't apply to Luca, huh?

Though of course you get to conveniently decide for all of us that he's "trying his hardest not to be" in that case, right?

Not in this particular case.

Saying his stronger scumread would get cred for hammering his weaker scumread implies his reads weren't real.
Weaker scumread implies a possibility where you see them as town. If he saw that possibility, he wouldn't have anticipated Oats getting cred.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I am sorry I lost my cool but I do want you to answer the question.

[Vivax]

I am sorry I lost my cool but I do want you to answer the question.

I would if I could find it.

If it's wagon analysis we're talking about. I checked your readslists again, but I don't recall finding a post where you do VCA.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Look, if you are content to let Vivax play you like a fiddle, I guess I don't need to intervene. Hu Tao, Naerys, Luca and myself can handle the game from here so I don't really see much value in trying to get through to you at this point.

Can you explain why you are so certain Luca is town.

I'm sorry man but at this point of the game I just don't trust you anymore. You're either scum or you're too clouded by whatever history you have with Vivax to see what I think is pretty obvious scum behavior on his part. I don't think I can work with you and I don't think it's productive for me or town at this point.

I'm going to stick with working with Hu Tao / Naerys / Luca and work from there.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Why are you suddenly saying this? I do this massive amount of work to describe the full history of votes on Dunnstral, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you said nothing about it, at all. (I remember because it seemed like nobody gave a shit about that analysis, and that made me sad, because I really did put a lot of work into that, even marking page numbers and such) But now suddenly you're arguing that this is important? At the very least, since my analysis was ignored by everyone, this opinion that looking at wagons matters so much is seemingly not shared by anyone. To me this feels like you're only arguing that it matters when it is convenient for you to make a case on someone.

Here you go Vivax. Explain.

[Luca Blight]

I've only skimmed through, but wanted to answer this:

Town misreads town as scum in a game of mafia, more at 11!

I am scared of this and I am taking what you say seriously as you are basically cleared.

Otherwise I would have voted already.

For real, why do you think this means something? How many townies have incorrectly voted to yeet town in this game so far? Why is this one instance of Luca doing it so notable?

Cause his reads and actions don’t align

Are you concerned at all that the guy you are sheeping posted those quotes in the wrong order, or that he didn't tell you how many posts were inbetween, so that you wouldn't get a sense of how much time and how much post material he had to change his mind?

No, not really.

Luca said oats was always his bigger scum read and that he also thought gob could be mafia tracker .

Then why does he Think his strongest scum read would hammer his buddy?

Why would he not hammer his other scum read?

All of those are fair questions that vivax is pointing to.

Because Gob was pretty much a consensus scum read by that point and his death was inevitable. It's common practice for scum to bus their partners when this is the case, and I thought oats' earlier response to you about Gob was awkward and possibly indicative of someone failing to bus their partner in a natural looking way. Obviously I was wrong about oats in this case.

The reason I made that post was because I wanted to put oats, who I thought was scum, in another awkward position where he would have to make a decision on whether or not to hammer his partner.

[Vivax]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Why are you suddenly saying this? I do this massive amount of work to describe the full history of votes on Dunnstral, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you said nothing about it, at all. (I remember because it seemed like nobody gave a shit about that analysis, and that made me sad, because I really did put a lot of work into that, even marking page numbers and such) But now suddenly you're arguing that this is important? At the very least, since my analysis was ignored by everyone, this opinion that looking at wagons matters so much is seemingly not shared by anyone. To me this feels like you're only arguing that it matters when it is convenient for you to make a case on someone.

Here you go Vivax. Explain.

You mean when you assumed 1-3 mafias to have been on the Dunnstral wagon? I did look at it, and I thought you were making it all up a while after OoO began to push you.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Why are you suddenly saying this? I do this massive amount of work to describe the full history of votes on Dunnstral, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you said nothing about it, at all. (I remember because it seemed like nobody gave a shit about that analysis, and that made me sad, because I really did put a lot of work into that, even marking page numbers and such) But now suddenly you're arguing that this is important? At the very least, since my analysis was ignored by everyone, this opinion that looking at wagons matters so much is seemingly not shared by anyone. To me this feels like you're only arguing that it matters when it is convenient for you to make a case on someone.

Here you go Vivax. Explain.

You mean when you assumed 1-3 mafias to have been on the Dunnstral wagon? I did look at it, and I thought you were making it all up a while after OoO began to push you.

Are you allergic to answering questions or something

[DarthPunk]

Look, if you are content to let Vivax play you like a fiddle, I guess I don't need to intervene. Hu Tao, Naerys, Luca and myself can handle the game from here so I don't really see much value in trying to get through to you at this point.

Can you explain why you are so certain Luca is town.

I'm sorry man but at this point of the game I just don't trust you anymore. You're either scum or you're too clouded by whatever history you have with Vivax to see what I think is pretty obvious scum behavior on his part. I don't think I can work with you and I don't think it's productive for me or town at this point.

I'm going to stick with working with Hu Tao / Naerys / Luca and work from there.

I thought I was a lock town read ? If that is the case why would it not be in your best interest to explain why I am wrong and you are right?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Like right now you are zeroing in on

my personal read of the vote history on Dunnstral.

That is not what I asked you about.

I am asking you about the vote history itself. So you didn't like my interpretation of it, I can count on 0 hands the number of shits I give about that. What I care about was the fact that I posted the full vote history, from which YOU YOURSELF could have made any conclusions, any conclusions at all, the sky is the fucking limit, and according to you, it's such an important thing to do that you chastise Luca for NOT doing it.

And yet you don't do it yourself.

You know that whole thing you say about who is trying really hard not to look inconsistent?

LOOK AT HOW FUCKING HARD IT IS JUST TO GET YOU TO EXPLAIN THIS MINOR DETAIL TO ME

, I have been trying for DAYS and you just find every single way under the sun to avoid having to answer it.

You couldn't find more scum in the bottom of a college kid's toilet.

[SuperfluousNinja]

That last post was directed at Vivax, btw.

[Vivax]

I've only skimmed through, but wanted to answer this:

Town misreads town as scum in a game of mafia, more at 11!

I am scared of this and I am taking what you say seriously as you are basically cleared.

Otherwise I would have voted already.

For real, why do you think this means something? How many townies have incorrectly voted to yeet town in this game so far? Why is this one instance of Luca doing it so notable?

Cause his reads and actions don’t align

Are you concerned at all that the guy you are sheeping posted those quotes in the wrong order, or that he didn't tell you how many posts were inbetween, so that you wouldn't get a sense of how much time and how much post material he had to change his mind?

No, not really.

Luca said oats was always his bigger scum read and that he also thought gob could be mafia tracker .

Then why does he Think his strongest scum read would hammer his buddy?

Why would he not hammer his other scum read?

All of those are fair questions that vivax is pointing to.

Because Gob was pretty much a consensus scum read by that point and his death was inevitable. It's common practice for scum to bus their partners when this is the case

, and I thought oats' earlier response to you about Gob was awkward and possibly indicative of someone failing to bus their partner in a natural looking way. Obviously I was wrong about oats in this case.

The reason I made that post was because I wanted to put oats, who I thought was scum, in another awkward position where he would have to make a decision on whether or not to hammer his partner.

At the time you were saying

1. Me and Oats were mafia together.
2. Gob was your weaker scumread.

Rhetorically elegant way to weasel yourself out by appealing to thread consensus and common practice but doesn't hold with what has transpired.

Read on me please.

[Vivax]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Why are you suddenly saying this? I do this massive amount of work to describe the full history of votes on Dunnstral, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you said nothing about it, at all. (I remember because it seemed like nobody gave a shit about that analysis, and that made me sad, because I really did put a lot of work into that, even marking page numbers and such) But now suddenly you're arguing that this is important? At the very least, since my analysis was ignored by everyone, this opinion that looking at wagons matters so much is seemingly not shared by anyone. To me this feels like you're only arguing that it matters when it is convenient for you to make a case on someone.

Here you go Vivax. Explain.

You mean when you assumed 1-3 mafias to have been on the Dunnstral wagon? I did look at it, and I thought you were making it all up a while after OoO began to push you.

Are you allergic to answering questions or something

Of course I argue when it's convenient for me, ergo when it helps me to murder mafia, which replying to you about that particular point isn't doing, because looking at the Dunnstral wagon isn't going to help me case Luca.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Luca, who are your top 2 scum reads at the moment?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Of course I argue when it's convenient for me, ergo when it helps me to murder mafia, which replying to you about that particular point isn't doing, because looking at the Dunnstral wagon isn't going to help me case Luca.

I don't care about Luca. Forget about Luca for the time being. Let's pretend Luca doesn't exist.

I'm talking about this world I live in where I posted the full voting history on Dunnstral. You completely ignored it and didn't use it at all. Why?

[DarthPunk]

Ninja being cleared has a different kind of energy lol.

[Luca Blight]

I've only skimmed through, but wanted to answer this:

Town misreads town as scum in a game of mafia, more at 11!

I am scared of this and I am taking what you say seriously as you are basically cleared.

Otherwise I would have voted already.

For real, why do you think this means something? How many townies have incorrectly voted to yeet town in this game so far? Why is this one instance of Luca doing it so notable?

Cause his reads and actions don’t align

Are you concerned at all that the guy you are sheeping posted those quotes in the wrong order, or that he didn't tell you how many posts were inbetween, so that you wouldn't get a sense of how much time and how much post material he had to change his mind?

No, not really.

Luca said oats was always his bigger scum read and that he also thought gob could be mafia tracker .

Then why does he Think his strongest scum read would hammer his buddy?

Why would he not hammer his other scum read?

All of those are fair questions that vivax is pointing to.

Because Gob was pretty much a consensus scum read by that point and his death was inevitable. It's common practice for scum to bus their partners when this is the case

, and I thought oats' earlier response to you about Gob was awkward and possibly indicative of someone failing to bus their partner in a natural looking way. Obviously I was wrong about oats in this case.

The reason I made that post was because I wanted to put oats, who I thought was scum, in another awkward position where he would have to make a decision on whether or not to hammer his partner.

At the time you were saying

1. Me and Oats were mafia together.
2. Gob was your weaker scumread.

Rhetorically elegant way to weasel yourself out by appealing to thread consensus and common practice but doesn't hold with what has transpired.

Read on me please.

I was pretty sure of oats/Vivax/Gob being the scum team by that point, but independently oats was my more certain scum read and if I was wrong on one then I would have picked Gob, but I didn't think I was wrong.

Right now I think you must be scum, not only for the reasons I mentioned yesterday regarding the wagon analysis but also by PoE. I'm going to take some time later to review properly before placing my vote, though.

[DarthPunk]

Ninja, does it help you take me more seriously if I told you I am probably one of the best readers of Vivax on TL.

[Luca Blight]

@Luca, who are your top 2 scum reads at the moment?

Vivax is the only clear scumread I have, but I would imagine the other would be in Naerys/Grack. I still think Hu Tao and Darth are more likely town, but I need to review again.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Luca, who are your top 2 scum reads at the moment?

Vivax is the only clear scumread I have, but I would imagine the other would be in Naerys/Grack. I still think Hu Tao and Darth are more likely town, but I need to review again.

Naerys picked up on the fact that Dannflor said "SuperfluousNinja is my strongest town read" yesterday and deduced that he was almost certainly saying it because he checked me. There's no way a scum Naerys points out a thing like that. So IMO Naerys is also basically confirmed town at this point.

[Vivax]

I've only skimmed through, but wanted to answer this:

Town misreads town as scum in a game of mafia, more at 11!

I am scared of this and I am taking what you say seriously as you are basically cleared.

Otherwise I would have voted already.

For real, why do you think this means something? How many townies have incorrectly voted to yeet town in this game so far? Why is this one instance of Luca doing it so notable?

Cause his reads and actions don’t align

Are you concerned at all that the guy you are sheeping posted those quotes in the wrong order, or that he didn't tell you how many posts were inbetween, so that you wouldn't get a sense of how much time and how much post material he had to change his mind?

No, not really.

Luca said oats was always his bigger scum read and that he also thought gob could be mafia tracker .

Then why does he Think his strongest scum read would hammer his buddy?

Why would he not hammer his other scum read?

All of those are fair questions that vivax is pointing to.

Because Gob was pretty much a consensus scum read by that point and his death was inevitable. It's common practice for scum to bus their partners when this is the case

, and I thought oats' earlier response to you about Gob was awkward and possibly indicative of someone failing to bus their partner in a natural looking way. Obviously I was wrong about oats in this case.

The reason I made that post was because I wanted to put oats, who I thought was scum, in another awkward position where he would have to make a decision on whether or not to hammer his partner.

At the time you were saying

1. Me and Oats were mafia together.
2. Gob was your weaker scumread.

Rhetorically elegant way to weasel yourself out by appealing to thread consensus and common practice but doesn't hold with what has transpired.

Read on me please.

I was pretty sure of oats/Vivax/Gob being the scum team by that point, but independently oats was my more certain scum read and if I was wrong on one then I would have picked Gob, but I didn't think I was wrong.

Right now I think you must be scum, not only for the reasons I mentioned yesterday regarding the wagon analysis but also by PoE. I'm going to take some time later to review properly before placing my vote, though.

You seem pretty sure of yourself after neither me nor Oats 'bussed' gob at the end of the day.
So you made an association read with me and Oats in it and Oats flipping green didn't change a thing about your read on me.

My vote is in the right place then.

[Luca Blight]

@Luca, who are your top 2 scum reads at the moment?

Vivax is the only clear scumread I have, but I would imagine the other would be in Naerys/Grack. I still think Hu Tao and Darth are more likely town, but I need to review again.

Naerys picked up on the fact that Dannflor said "SuperfluousNinja is my strongest town read" yesterday and deduced that he was almost certainly saying it because he checked me. There's no way a scum Naerys points out a thing like that. So IMO Naerys is also basically confirmed town at this point.

I completely disagree, because if she didn't point it out then someone would have. I noticed Dann's comment myself and suspected he might have had an inno result at the time.

It gives her a reason to be townread, which she needs at this point if she is scum.