Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[Grackaroni]

Do scum never vote each other off on this site?

They do, but would she sit on her buddy wagon for that long?

Why not?

Everyone seems to say that me having my vote on Gob on day 1 is indicative of scum leaving an easy vote on a buddy.

[Grackaroni]

What's the votes at? I'm okay with vivax or grack. Don't see myself voting elsewhere

So where is the Grack vote?

Grack opportunity. Hu Tao doesn‘t vote.
Vivax opportunity, she votes.

Fact: They aren‘t equal wagons to her

I think you just want to provoke a vote and hammer.

[Grackaroni]

VOTE: Luca Blight

[Vivax]

[gifv][/gifv]

What's the votes at? I'm okay with vivax or grack. Don't see myself voting elsewhere

So where is the Grack vote?

Grack opportunity. Hu Tao doesn‘t vote.
Vivax opportunity, she votes.

Fact: They aren‘t equal wagons to her

I think you just want to provoke a vote and hammer.

I think the ‚but‘ in your sentence makes you partnered.

I know how well you write that wouldn‘t occur to you if it wasnmt Freudian.

[Vivax]

The But implies you were hedging to write a non-town reason, insted you decided to commit to a town reason in the sentence.

[Grackaroni]

I mean going back to that post - am I really going to take my two partners {Hu-Tao/Gob} and put them as my top town as my entrance when nobody else shared those reads.

I would feel very iffy about making that post as scum and having to answer questions to it. I'm just a bad player lol.

[Grackaroni]

The But implies you were hedging to write a non-town reason, insted you decided to commit to a town reason in the sentence.

My intent wasn't to list something scummy from Hu-Tao and then say she comes off as care-free/contributive.

My guess is that this could be a language difference between German/English. In this case I was using 'but' as a neutral connective.
Point 1, but also point 2.

[Grackaroni]

Okay who is very against a Luca elimination right now and why

I am against it, but not very against it.

I am thinking we go dunnstral here unironically. I still need to catch up though but the fact I haven't seen dunn post at all and can't remember any of their posts is a bad sign.

[Grackaroni]

Around pages 89-95 I decided that I wanted to try to move the wagon towards Dunnstral.

DP - starts hard pushing Dunnstral and the wagon gains momentum with all four of me/OutofOrder/DarthPunk/Oats voting for Dunnstral.

I just Iso'd Naerys and got absolutely nothing from it.

I'm looking through Dunn's posts now (I'm not finished yet), and I really don't feel great about how he began the game, talking mainly about theory and hardly engaging with anything else. I also didn't like this:

In a similar sense, in case Ninja is actually town, Luca's "100% agree to that post" doesn't look good to me, because there is DEFINITELY stuff you should not agree with. It's just very easy thing to say as mafia in case you know it's actually a townie who wrote that post.

This is a good point.

Because it wasn't a good point, in fact outoforder misread my post as I explicitly said that i disagreed with ninja on things such as the reasoning behind her oats read, and I would expect Dunn, as careful as he has been in this game, to pick up on that if he was genuinely trying to read me in this situation. Especially when Dunn mentioned/implied he only comments on posts he finds worthy. He also does nothing with this - it leads nowhere, and is never mentioned or referenced again, so he couldn't have believed it was that good a point.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: dunnstral

VOTE: dunnstral

This almost quick hammer was really random

There is a real lack of curiosity here from someone whose wagon built up suddenly and was almost hammered out of nowhere. Not just here but in general this game.

Hu Tao's vote feels survivalistic. I think they are voting me because I said I suspect them and are the largest wagon.

This seems overly simplistic from someone who seems to consider the game carefully. But what really pings me here is that again there is no follow up on this. It just feels like a token comment to seem as though he is analysing the wagon, while playing it pretty safe by not taking a hard stance on anything.

Okay so Roden came back vomited up some stuff and left, what are y’all thoughts about it?

I was expecting some pushback from my read on them but they either didn't get there yet or didn't find it memorable.

Because it really wasn't memorable. Even reading through your Iso now I had forgotten about your early Roden suspicion, as it was phrased in such a non-committal manner.

Again, Dunn just enters the thread every now and then to seem like he is active, but it doesn't feel like he's actually playing the game in a genuine, inquisitive way.

I guess if I’m wrong on a town read in these three I think OoO is the most likely to be wrong?

he does say this right before but otherwise you are in his firmly town section in the reads list that he posted a while before this whole thing happened.
idk just that masons wouldnt be the first place my brain goes to if someone yells dont yeet that dude

It's actually a bit weird he says this:

To be clear, my current pool would be Oats/Ninja/OoO but Ninja is more on a whim right now.
That said I appreciate that Naerys thinks similarly.

I guess if I’m wrong on a town read in these three I think OoO is the most likely to be wrong?

I feel increasingly solid about Ninja as town

I mean, he has just expressed suspicion towards Vivax.
Why does he care about who Vivax scumreads? Or like "if one of these three NEEDS to be mafia THEN it's this guy". Seems a bit out of place how to talk to your scumread.

To expand on my post, Dannflor would not be 100% sure that Vivax is mafia so is still capable of looking at things from a perspective where Vivax is town. That is why they are asking questions like that - because they are considering things from multiple angles. (Or if mafia, that's what they'd like us to believe. I do think they are quite good at mafia which makes it hard to townread them, which I believe is something they get irritated at.)

This is very reasonable, but it does feel as though Dunn is using Dann's reputation as a good scum player to regard him in a fair yet non-committal way here. It basically means that we're never going to get a real opinion on Dann from Dunn this game, and that is just too convenient on a player who has been very much at the centre of things.

This comment isn't necessarily scummy in of itself, but for someone who has had so few reads and insights this game, it's like scraping the barrel.

Roden she said you used language that makes it seem like you have a rock-solid opinion.

Right. Why does town think scum has a "rock-solid opinion"? Scum just lies.

You are not really getting this. She is saying that you are indicating you have a strong opinion with your language, and that is part of her argument. She is not reading into your state of mind.

There's a lot of this from Dunn - playing mediator, clarifying misinterpretations, keeping up appearances while not actually adding anything new to the game or drawing attention to himself. I generally find this kind of behaviour scummy.

Again, if he was actually doing other things, then I have no problem with the above, but at this point in the game it's the only sort of content he is offering.

For the first time Luca starts forcing lots of reasons for why Dunnstral is scummy - (while making sure to mention that he is not contradicting himself and that has not forgotten that he has said he liked his posts in the past. )

Again - this is the path of least resistance.

You give town reads to everyone until they start pushing you and then when it becomes clear that you need a counter-wagon you choose the person that looks like the most likely alternative and try to throw everything you can towards them. (Coincidentally in the same direction as Gob is also looking to re-direct attention)

[SuperfluousNinja]

Yall are barking up the wrong tree with Luca. There's not a single scum team that includes Luca that makes any sense.

Yesterday he clearly had suspicions on both Grack and Vivax. Regardless of where he is now, that's where he was.

When Grack was at E-1, I said "intent to hammer", and he advised me not to. If he were teamed with Vivax, or literally anyone other than Grack, why would he do that? Grack was asking for it, pleading, practically, and Luca could have just let me kill a townie, but he told me not to.

Then the only logical explanation left is that he is teamed with Grack. Now you have to consider that Vivax was at E-1 this morning, and Luca could have easily pushed that wagon to completion, but instead he said, nah, let's not.

So that now leaves us with 0 logical teammates with him as scum.

The only thing that explains it adequately is that he's a sincere townie.

[Grackaroni]

Yall are barking up the wrong tree with Luca. There's not a single scum team that includes Luca that makes any sense.

Yesterday he clearly had suspicions on both Grack and Vivax. Regardless of where he is now, that's where he was.

When Grack was at E-1, I said "intent to hammer", and he advised me not to. If he were teamed with Vivax, or literally anyone other than Grack, why would he do that? Grack was asking for it, pleading, practically, and Luca could have just let me kill a townie, but he told me not to.

Then the only logical explanation left is that he is teamed with Grack. Now you have to consider that Vivax was at E-1 this morning, and Luca could have easily pushed that wagon to completion, but instead he said, nah, let's not.

So that now leaves us with 0 logical teammates with him as scum.

The only thing that explains it adequately is that he's a sincere townie.

You made a post that you weren't going to hammer and that town needs to take its time.

As it stands he's on track for an easy win and just needs to avoid doing anything drastic.

He's not going to draw attention to himself by rushing to hammer a townie.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Yall are barking up the wrong tree with Luca. There's not a single scum team that includes Luca that makes any sense.

Yesterday he clearly had suspicions on both Grack and Vivax. Regardless of where he is now, that's where he was.

When Grack was at E-1, I said "intent to hammer", and he advised me not to. If he were teamed with Vivax, or literally anyone other than Grack, why would he do that? Grack was asking for it, pleading, practically, and Luca could have just let me kill a townie, but he told me not to.

Then the only logical explanation left is that he is teamed with Grack. Now you have to consider that Vivax was at E-1 this morning, and Luca could have easily pushed that wagon to completion, but instead he said, nah, let's not.

So that now leaves us with 0 logical teammates with him as scum.

The only thing that explains it adequately is that he's a sincere townie.

You made a post that you weren't going to hammer and that town needs to take its time.

As it stands he's on track for an easy win and just needs to avoid doing anything drastic.

He's not going to draw attention to himself by rushing to hammer a townie.

He was around, though. He could have done it himself.

Remember, every single one of us suspected you last night. So it would not have been at all controversial for any individual to vote for you and yeet you. He didn't even need me to cast the hammer vote; he could have finished you off himself. And he chose not to.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I feel like this should be given serious thought.

Naerys / DarthPunk / Vivax all had their votes on you already, pushing you to E-1. Anyone paying attention to the current state of reads at the time would know that all of us were scumreading you. And after E-1, you gave up. "I'll just hammer myself", you said.

I mean, for the life of me, I cannot fathom better conditions for which a scum can swoop in and finish you off. This is like tee ball difficulty at this point. Luca, Hu Tao, and I had the ball just sitting right there, asking to be hit.

And none of us did so.

If you ask me, that's a strong sign that there's 0 scum between Luca, Hu Tao, and myself, and that all scum are somewhere in the midst of Naerys / DarthPunk / Vivax.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I guess if you are scum, you have to scrap that whole thing. But if you really are town like you say, you really ought to wrap your head around that.

[Grackaroni]

Okay.

Well if someone is going to hammer you, it's not going to be me.

I'm deeply concerned that DP / Vivax are playing us. No way in hell is it smart to give them what they want so fast, if they are the scum team.

When you are tired, Grack, learn to rest, not to quit.

Get some sleep and let's sort this all out over the course of the day. No need to rush into such an early hammer.

I'm going to sleep.

After you write this post, there's no world in which mafia Luca writes

"I disagree. Don't give Grack time to sleep. We need to hammer NOW"

It'd be an absolutely terrible look.

HEAR MY CLAIM.

If that is really your claim, this gon be a real short day.

intent to hammer

Let's not rush this. Remember, you're probably going to be the night-kill and won't be able to influence the game further, so it's important we carefully consider everything now.

My son had an accident at school, so I'm not going to be on the the rest of the day. Hopefully review everything Tomorrow.

If I write off everybody that could have hammered me then the only possible scum team left for me is Nearys/Vivax.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh yeah, AND you were asked for your role, and you didn't give it! And Darth even said "lol he's obviously mafia"! Like come on, if you are town, how can you possibly think that Luca, or Hu Tao, or myself just passed on the most golden opportunity of all time

[SuperfluousNinja]

After you write this post, there's no world in which mafia Luca writes

"I disagree. Don't give Grack time to sleep. We need to hammer NOW"

It'd be an absolutely terrible look.

After the post, sure. But there was plenty of time before it.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Ugh, or maybe not. Only 30 minutes in between.

Now I'm pissed at myself for missing a play that would have very, very easily cleared both Luca and Hu Tao for good.

[SuperfluousNinja]

If I write off everybody that could have hammered me then the only possible scum team left for me is Nearys/Vivax.

Then why not vote Vivax?

[Grackaroni]

If I write off everybody that could have hammered me then the only possible scum team left for me is Nearys/Vivax.

Then why not vote Vivax?

That wasn't me agreeing with the logic of it.

There's a very real chance that Vivax is town. He came off very well in his back and forth with OutofOrder at the start of the game. It seems like the main reason people are pushing him is that he's chaotic and goes all over the place?

[SuperfluousNinja]

And he dodges questions and refuses to answer them on a regular basis. Don't forget that!

[Grackaroni]

Considering that you both know my lazy scum meta it‘s alienating that Grack would believe I was scum.

In recent times you've been playing more actively.

Mostly though I'm just impulsive and didn't like the way you went about pushing me today.

[Grackaroni]

And he dodges questions and refuses to answer them on a regular basis. Don't forget that!

So did Oats and so did I with the role claim.

We're a stubborn group of people.

[SuperfluousNinja]

No, you did respond to the question. You clearly acknowledged it and said you didn't want to say. That's not the same thing.

And Oats did actually answer questions, he just did it in the most frustrating and circuitous way possible. Like I said before, he treated his answers like a hot potato, just eager to get them away from himself as quickly as possible.

That is NOT the same as straight-up ignoring them.

Why is he trying so hard to antagonize me if he's town? Why call me "superfluousthrower", why suggest that I "have issues"? I'm confirmed town, and he feels like the best thing he could do is intentionally piss me off?

[Vivax]

I mean going back to that post - am I really going to take my two partners {Hu-Tao/Gob} and put them as my top town as my entrance when nobody else shared those reads.

I would feel very iffy about making that post as scum and having to answer questions to it. I'm just a bad player lol.

Don‘t know if it‘s an issue for others but having mafia as townread isn‘t scummy per se to me.
It‘s their only job to be a TR.

You think it‘s me and DP. We know DP is a high priority kill when he‘s town. Dann died instead.

If you are not mafia as you say, let‘s look at HT + DP instead ?

UNVOTE:

Or even better, let‘s look at HT in isolation.