Mini Normal 2329: complex. [game over!]

[Hu Tao]

the way you're framing the question feels like something mafia would say tho.

"why is this person's vote not as bad as mine" feels like something mafia say when they feel like they are being unfairly targeted when they think their play is the same as everyone else.

truth be told I voted you because you had the most votes and you had a sus looking hop on to the wagon, I didn't really bother trying to figure out which vote on the wagon was the most sus or whatever, I just saw two votes on you, checked your iso and decided it was a decent place to start.

Wrong. I want to see if people are voting for actual reasons. What do you think of all of the things I said on Naerys?

[Hu Tao]

I think Naerys' approach to Hu Tao feels like starting from a conclusion and finding evidence, vs the opposite.

AGREED

[Naerys]

I think Naerys' approach to Hu Tao feels like starting from a conclusion and finding evidence, vs the opposite.

Funnily enough you described me the way i feel about Hu - she came to conclusion and now she is looking for evidence.

[Hu Tao]

I should be at E-1 now I think. Remember after you see me flip town to vote Naerys tomorrow or I'll be pretty upset.

[Aristeia]

So you're saying that me and him did the same thing as partners. And you're saying that if I flip town you wouldn't? Seems like a weird take

if you flip town I'd probably examine Naerys because she's the one you're 100% convinced is mafia who is pushing you.

There's also issues with like, who pushed you, who defended you, who the nightkill is, what role info comes up etc.

The reason I'd go towards looking at PC if you flip mafia is because I can see you doing this as a kind of weird distancing thing to your partner.

[Klick]

Thanks for the reminder that you're not worried about getting eliminated here

[Naerys]

I should be at E-1 now I think. Remember after you see me flip town to vote Naerys tomorrow or I'll be pretty upset.

Emotional blackmail? REALLY?

[Political Clout]

from the feeling so threatened by a page 3 wagon that you burn a PR to the selfvote+"Eliminate me and vote her out tomorrow!" the whole playerlist seems awfully melodramatic this game

[1]

It is worth the sacrifice to get 1 scum out the game. But only if it is agreed that she is the elimination tomorrow

from the feeling so threatened by a page 3 wagon that you burn a PR to the selfvote+"Eliminate me and vote her out tomorrow!" the whole playerlist seems awfully melodramatic this game

Different things. I agree he shouldn't have done that on e-2 3 pages in. But in the last game I was in with him, i was hammered on page 3. So I get his reasoning for doing so if he felt the need to. Also Naerys was also in that game which is why her reasoning makes 0 sense

It is worth the sacrifice to get 1 scum out the game. But only if it is agreed that she is the elimination tomorrow

that's really dumb! why would anyone agree to that? has an entire town ever agreed to that?

[2]

9 times out of 10 the person who is mislimmed D1 is completely forgotten and ignored past the first page of D2. i feel like you must have been in enough games by now to know this

[3]

1. no intent other than to vent from my point of view
2. this looks more rhetorical than anything else to me personally
3. this to me looks like an informational post that begins and ends with the information presented

in contrast to now in the bottom post you're saying you had a reason to post other than to just post. You had a hidden intent when posting. it is as follows

i knew what i wanted to say and said exactly all those things.

that conversation w hu tao was probing the rationale and/or sincerity behind the self vote.

am I making a mountain out of a molehill? If i am lmk I can move on and take what you said at face value

your conclusion to that exchange was this:

i still can't understand how someone w hu tao's professed beliefs/personality exists in this world. it's a very incoherent sequence set in between an otherwise clear-thinking iso. when the read is not ambivalent, i'll announce it like a normal person.

a bit hyperbolic imo. essentially you don't believe hu tao was emotional you think there was nefarious reasons and that's why you engaged when you did to find hidden intent. your read so far is mixed or it is contradictory. Why is your read ambivalent i.e. mixed or contradictory? what has hu tao done that on the one hand I assume makes you town read them and on the other scum read them.

[Klick]

UNVOTE: Hu Tao

[Klick]

I find this tactic really obnoxious and would appreciate if you avoided it in the future

But I think you're not that likely to have partners

[Aristeia]

Wrong. I want to see if people are voting for actual reasons. What do you think of all of the things I said on Naerys?

well from the last time I played with you and Naerys in Cop 17er, you were town and Naerys was mafia. She played extremely passively and was more or less a nonfactor in pushing things so off that comparison it's not really the same. On the other hand I think you didn't really feel like you cared all that much when you got pushed, you challenged people more directly and I thought you didn't really care if people voted for you or not.

the way you're scumcasing Naerys isn't really convincing to me, it's like you remembered a single thing she did once;

Kinda tempted to troll hammer tbh

My fingers are itching

This is Naerys reaction as town when it was E-1 on page 3 in last game. Drastically different this game. I wonder why?

So just to be clear you caught naerys multiple times with this or is this all in just one game?

This is a separate game. One where she was town. Last few quotes was when she was scum. Just showing this is how she reacted last game as town. She wanted to hammer. But this game she was very suspicious of people on the wagon. Which shows a clear difference

like saying because someone wanted to troll hammer in one game as town that she'd want to trollhammer in this game as town is kind of a stretch to me.

[Klick]

Like this kind of behavior is very self-focused and you're not that self-focused when your wincon is attached to two other known players

[Klick]

I also think Hu Tao has a higher opinion of her own scum game than to default to this as her tactic

[Hu Tao]

I think Naerys' approach to Hu Tao feels like starting from a conclusion and finding evidence, vs the opposite.

Funnily enough you described me the way i feel about Hu - she came to conclusion and now she is looking for evidence.

Interesting because I didn't vote you at first, I voted NotAScum. So why would you think this?

[Psyche]

clout's post is too big for me to reply from mobile. just gonna say i think it's bunk and full of misreadings

[Dannflor]

Like this kind of behavior is very self-focused and you're not that self-focused when your wincon is attached to two other known players

that just seems to assume hu tao is a specific brand of scum player

i don't think that's generally true about scum players

[Hu Tao]

So you're saying that me and him did the same thing as partners. And you're saying that if I flip town you wouldn't? Seems like a weird take

if you flip town I'd probably examine Naerys because she's the one you're 100% convinced is mafia who is pushing you.

There's also issues with like, who pushed you, who defended you, who the nightkill is, what role info comes up etc.

The reason I'd go towards looking at PC if you flip mafia is because I can see you doing this as a kind of weird distancing thing to your partner.

Don't you think it's more likely that scum was off the wagon for RN than on? If not how come?

[Naerys]

I think Naerys' approach to Hu Tao feels like starting from a conclusion and finding evidence, vs the opposite.

Funnily enough you described me the way i feel about Hu - she came to conclusion and now she is looking for evidence.

Interesting because I didn't vote you at first, I voted NotAScum. So why would you think this?

First you talked about how i am scum and then went to a previous game to support your statement

[Hu Tao]

I should be at E-1 now I think. Remember after you see me flip town to vote Naerys tomorrow or I'll be pretty upset.

Emotional blackmail? REALLY?

That's not my intention, sorry if it comes off this way. I'm just saying that I'm okay with being eliminated, if my scumread is too. I wouldn't do this if I thought it wouldn't happen otherwise

[Klick]

Like this kind of behavior is very self-focused and you're not that self-focused when your wincon is attached to two other known players

that just seems to assume hu tao is a specific brand of scum player

i don't think that's generally true about scum players

I would assume it's true about most people? I'd assume that most people would want to avoid throwing the game for two specific people. There's a responsibility to them in a small group sort of way
I don't have a reason to assume Hu Tao would be exempt from that

[Hu Tao]

I find this tactic really obnoxious and would appreciate if you avoided it in the future

But I think you're not that likely to have partners

This isn't a tactic or play. I'm just trying to do an equal exchange. In my mind once I flip town maybe people will see what I mean.

[Political Clout]

clout's post is too big for me to reply from mobile. just gonna say i think it's bunk and full of misreadings

I'm willing to let it go and say I was wrong if you answer what side that interaction landed hu tao in more scum or more town and why?

[Klick]

If you're town I'm not interested
Losing a town member and then not taking their advice is just going to be -1 town player

[Naerys]

I find this tactic really obnoxious and would appreciate if you avoided it in the future

But I think you're not that likely to have partners

This isn't a tactic or play. I'm just trying to do an equal exchange. In my mind once I flip town maybe people will see what I mean.

I showed you game when i was suspicious of a wagon happening early and i was town. So whats next in ur sleeve

[Hu Tao]

Like this kind of behavior is very self-focused and you're not that self-focused when your wincon is attached to two other known players

that just seems to assume hu tao is a specific brand of scum player

i don't think that's generally true about scum players

If I'm being honest I would self vote as scum but probably wouldn't say the stuff I'm saying in terms of getting Naerys tomorrow. So I can see how that's manipulative now. Sorry and this wasn't my intention and I won't do it again in the future. I should see how other perspective would see it, not just myself. Now I feel bad.

UNVOTE: