Mini Normal 2329: complex. [game over!]

[KayJayQueue]

5) I strongly believe one of Naerys/Hu is Scum.

This is what worries me. If we push naerys today and are wrong, I feel you’ll push Hu next and I’m not on board with that unless some new information is brought up that makes sense. If this game is just going to be “Random Nurse is clear so they get to decide who we eliminate every round”, I don’t think we’ll accomplish much outside of losing if your reads are wrong.

[Random Nurse]

Good morning fellow townies! This game looks really complex to me.

This means nothing to me.

I'm so confident Naerys flips scum this game. Eliminate me and vote her out tomorrow. I agree with this.

VOTE: hu tao

She's contradicting herself. She does this as scum. She literally I'd saying the thing she did as town last game is now scummy when I do it.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Self-voting

VOTE: Hu Tao

This seems more like a disagreement between players. It doesn't mean anything on its own.

No idea what this means

It's explained in the wiki article. It's a common scumtell.

Seen plenty of dramatic townies to self vote, including myself

Which is why self-voting alone isn't enough to gauge anyone's scuminess. But Hu Tao jumped on the RN wagon, that is another tell.

Can you tell me what you gathered from that link?

Just that it's a common scumtell that has to be combined with other scumtells before reaching any conclusion.

Again, this is just a topic on gameplay. There's some merit to it given there's a posted article on it. Them arguing over this doesn't change anything for me at the moment.

but someone clinging to the mafia wiki for dear life took the exact opposite message home?
it does not pass the smell test

I think I mentioned before that HT jumping on RN wagon looked opportunistic. Couple that with that self-vote, it looks really scummy.

I don't necessarily disagree with it. This doesn't really make me Townread or Scumread NAS at all.

hi

Did you see my post directed towards you?

Sorry I missed it. I see now from your iso that you mentioned me. I'll read those 2-3 pages tomorrow as I'll be a little busy for the next ~20 hours.

and still doesn't credibly explain why you think self-votes are scummy in the first place. you certainly didn't pick that belief up from the wiki you linked

I mentioned self-vote on its own doesn't mean much. But when you've this possible scum who jumped on the RN train and then a train starts forming on them, they could use the self-vote to subdue it.

Again, this in itself doesn't make me read NAS either way.

Is this a fucking joke?

WHAT in this collection of FIVE MEDIOCRE POSTS makes NAS more worthy of my ire than Naerys?

[Doctor Drew]

We've got Naerys contradicting herself and refusing to respond to basic questions

these aren't scumtells. so i don't really care. why do you?

Protip: don't tell ME what scumtells are or aren't.

I've played this game long enough (over 13 years) to know that alignment tells are about as useful as meta, since Town and Scum both know how to manipulate them.

Contradictions of one's own words show lack of consistency, and lack of consistency is a red flag. Likewise, avoiding questions and refusing to answer questions are major red flags, especially when Town is actively Scumhunting and Town should be as forthright, open, and honest as possible because they have nothing to hide, right?

When someone's not being consistent and refusing to play ball when it comes to Scumhunting that to me is blood in the water.

You have played with townNae before, right?

[Psyche]

hmm it looks like you didn't read my case if you're still asking that question

[davesaz]

LHF is low hanging fruit, ie easy targets.

[Random Nurse]

5) I strongly believe one of Naerys/Hu is Scum.

This is what worries me. If we push naerys today and are wrong, I feel you’ll push Hu next and I’m not on board with that unless some new information is brought up that makes sense. If this game is just going to be “Random Nurse is clear so they get to decide who we eliminate every round”, I don’t think we’ll accomplish much outside of losing if your reads are wrong.

Do you realize how often people are wrong Day 1, but then use that information along with the Night 1 kill to start making connections?

It's completely fine, normal, and expected.

[Random Nurse]

hmm it looks like you didn't read my case if you're still asking that question

Where in his five posts makes him the appropriate target for launch today?

[Psyche]

LHF is low hanging fruit, ie easy targets.

naeyrs is the low hanging fruit. or maybe hu tao. either of the self-voters are hanging pretty low

[Random Nurse]

We've got Naerys contradicting herself and refusing to respond to basic questions

these aren't scumtells. so i don't really care. why do you?

Protip: don't tell ME what scumtells are or aren't.

I've played this game long enough (over 13 years) to know that alignment tells are about as useful as meta, since Town and Scum both know how to manipulate them.

Contradictions of one's own words show lack of consistency, and lack of consistency is a red flag. Likewise, avoiding questions and refusing to answer questions are major red flags, especially when Town is actively Scumhunting and Town should be as forthright, open, and honest as possible because they have nothing to hide, right?

When someone's not being consistent and refusing to play ball when it comes to Scumhunting that to me is blood in the water.

You have played with townNae before, right?

I have, actually.

And when Town I do remember her answering my questions and actually working with me as I scumhunt.

[Psyche]

RN. i've been in your shoes re time constraints. you should just go to sleep for now, and we can pick this up later.

[Psyche]

ill take a closer look at naeyrs like i promised

[Random Nurse]

LHF is low hanging fruit, ie easy targets.

naeyrs is the low hanging fruit. or maybe hu tao. either of the self-voters are hanging pretty low

I don't consider either to be LHF, especially Hu. Naerys, when Town, does engage when sufficiently motivated.

[Naerys]

LHF is low hanging fruit, ie easy targets.

naeyrs is the low hanging fruit. or maybe hu tao. either of the self-voters are hanging pretty low

I don't consider either to be LHF, especially Hu. Naerys, when Town, does engage when

sufficiently motivated.

thats the key word

[Random Nurse]

LHF is low hanging fruit, ie easy targets.

naeyrs is the low hanging fruit. or maybe hu tao. either of the self-voters are hanging pretty low

I don't consider either to be LHF, especially Hu. Naerys, when Town, does engage when

sufficiently motivated.

thats the key word

Indeed, so how much fire do I need to light under your butt?

[Doctor Drew]

LHF is low hanging fruit, ie easy targets.

naeyrs is the low hanging fruit. or maybe hu tao. either of the self-voters are hanging pretty low

I don't consider either to be LHF, especially Hu. Naerys, when Town, does engage when sufficiently motivated.

I feel like Nae gets frustrated easily, especially when erroneously scum read, and kinda puts up that wall.

Tbf though, I don't think I have seen her scum game

[Random Nurse]

LHF is low hanging fruit, ie easy targets.

naeyrs is the low hanging fruit. or maybe hu tao. either of the self-voters are hanging pretty low

I don't consider either to be LHF, especially Hu. Naerys, when Town, does engage when sufficiently motivated.

Were you there when Scum Hu CC'd the Cop that had a guilty on her and got him launched? That's not the definition of LHF, period. Competent Scum could very easily dangle a self-vote filly knowing that ain't going nowhere.

[Naerys]

LHF is low hanging fruit, ie easy targets.

naeyrs is the low hanging fruit. or maybe hu tao. either of the self-voters are hanging pretty low

I don't consider either to be LHF, especially Hu. Naerys, when Town, does engage when sufficiently motivated.

I feel like Nae gets frustrated easily, especially when erroneously scum read, and kinda puts up that wall.

Tbf though, I don't think I have seen her scum game

viewtopic.php?t=92020
there is scum game of mine

[Psyche]

I also think I'm more weary of scum being off that wagon. Scum knew RN was town so they probably soft defended to gain townie points

there were only like 2 slots that defended random nurse, why are you voting notascum as opposed to looking at them

Because I'm pretty sure he's scum. Where as I would need to look at people and decide which might be scum.

if we are thinking about relational tells then i think this post gets a lot easier to interpret once i get a notascum flip

[KayJayQueue]

Naerys, who are your strongest town reads right now and (besides Hu Tao) any other scum reads?

[Random Nurse]

LHF is low hanging fruit, ie easy targets.

naeyrs is the low hanging fruit. or maybe hu tao. either of the self-voters are hanging pretty low

I don't consider either to be LHF, especially Hu. Naerys, when Town, does engage when sufficiently motivated.

I feel like Nae gets frustrated easily, especially when erroneously scum read, and kinda puts up that wall.

Tbf though, I don't think I have seen her scum game

Eh heh heh this is true I have punched ner buttons before. I'm just trying to figure out her alignment and it makes it a total bear when she shuts down and turtles up. I will light a FIRE under you.

I've seen her donk out as Scum too.

[Psyche]

im agreeing that these slots could be scum, but i think notascum is a wayy surer deal. if when you break it down into its essence lhf just means im targetting the person who is scummiest then 1) why wouldn't someone do that and 2) why introduce such a thought-terminating idea in the first place?

[Psyche]

you've added so many posts about naeyrs/hutao but beyond saying that they're good at playing scum or have made a lot of contradictions you haven't really gotten into any details of why their posts specifically show scum win condition or deception.

[Random Nurse]

im agreeing that these slots could be scum, but i think notascum is a wayy surer deal. if when you break it down into its essence lhf just means im targetting the person who is scummiest then 1) why wouldn't someone do that and 2) why introduce such a thought-terminating idea in the first place?

Could you paraphrase that because as is it's making NO sense whatsoever.

[Psyche]

also still think a notascum scumflip would substantially implicate davesaz

[Random Nurse]

Where exactly in NAS's five posts does he weigh heavier on the scales than Naerys or Hu?

I want you to explicitly state where and why.