Open 905: Pick Your Power X/Y S/S [game over!]

[PenguinPower]

Weird thought. Could it be because gob voted your counter wagon?

nooo I was enjoying him before that vote

[Firebringer]

I believe u duckie

[Firebringer]

Damn Penguin grabbing all the tops

[the worst]

when gob was talking to jake the wolfie about "duckland" and he confused duckland for a random player in this game that didn't exist. I thought it was too dumb to be from scum because scum usually keep tabs on the playerlist to know who is vital to elim, and especially when talking to another player about a person in a conversation.

From what I've seen, Gob dumbtells as mafia like 7% more than he does as town. I have a game w him where I caught him off a fake dumbtell, then also clocked who his partner was bc he "forgot" about them and both felt a bit iffy

Just like don't read gob by dumbtells he's doing other stuff too

[Oblivion]

Its issue with Dave is that he comes across as using opportunistic strategies to advance his agendas and not being transparent or townie in doing so. It's one thing to have a goal, it's another to try and accomplish that goal while remaining at arms length and being contradictory to their own beliefs while doing it.

if you can show me the scum agenda im listening, I see no agenda other than moving a wagon. Getting to the night, etc.

Do u think he is purposefully pushing players he thinks are town, if so, where?

From its perspective, it thinks that Dave is leveraging his draft position and his nature to make counter logical arguments to shift wagons away from specific targets. It wrote about this in a post... let it grab it for you. It thinks Dave is scum trying to control how this phase goes for the sake of a strategy.

[Firebringer]

when gob was talking to jake the wolfie about "duckland" and he confused duckland for a random player in this game that didn't exist. I thought it was too dumb to be from scum because scum usually keep tabs on the playerlist to know who is vital to elim, and especially when talking to another player about a person in a conversation.

From what I've seen, Gob dumbtells as mafia like 7% more than he does as town. I have a game w him where I caught him off a fake dumbtell, then also clocked who his partner was bc he "forgot" about them and both felt a bit iffy

Just like don't read gob by dumbtells he's doing other stuff too

Okay now i don't have a read on Gob.

Penguin proceed to plan alpha

[PenguinPower]

So…even more reason to hypokill gob. Got it.

[Oblivion]

like at some point after 863 Dave checks the list to see where Pavowski is, probably because he's thinking about moving his vote there?

but then he doesn't say anything further about pavowski until I specifically ask why he isn't voting there

i don't know maybe I'm picking at nothing and am overestimating how much dave actually cares about not wagoning potential PRs

it also thinks this way, because it thinks in a world where Pav is town Pav is the easiest elimination and a good escape from day 1 if a scumteam were in threat of losing a member day 1. which makes it think perhaps dave is scum and scum with another possible elimination target from today? Does that track?

Here is the post it makes a similar argument.

[davesaz]

A place to begin, but if a player is transparently the most scummy player in the lobby... it's not right to just allow that player to thrive unchecked.

Is it aware that a secondary goal of a town PR is to live long enough to be able to give results? If the scum think someone can be mislimmed, perhaps they won't be killed.

[Firebringer]

From its perspective, it thinks that Dave is leveraging his draft position and his nature to make counter logical arguments to shift wagons away from specific targets. It wrote about this in a post... let it grab it for you. It thinks Dave is scum trying to control how this phase goes for the sake of a strategy.

Okay and you think that strategy benefits scum? Or is this theory talking about how it could possibly benefit scum depending on where they landed in draft. Cause now we are speculating on speculating. If you think he is providing a strategy he thinks is beneficial to scum and twisting it to say its beneficial for town.

We in business.
I doubt thats the case because hell even when im scum i usually tell town what I legit think is the best town strategy to do. I usually do this because I think town is gonna ignore me regardless, but also people will townread me for pushing it as well.

[the worst]

We are not killing the second in the draft order D1.

By this logic, if scum outdraft is we essentially are burning townies and eliminations for fun and profit to avoid hitting potential roles?

If we have a POE of 5 people, including 1 at the top and 4 at the bottom of the draft, it generally makes sense to sort through those at the bottom before those at the top. Night actions can help to tidy up the alignments of the rest of the POE if we're incorrect about the person at the top.

This is a mechanical argument so coming from me, it's boring and unconvincing but it's got logical merit.

I'd love to hear what it's scumreading about Dave

[Firebringer]

worstie what is ur read on me and why

[Oblivion]

From its perspective, it thinks that Dave is leveraging his draft position and his nature to make counter logical arguments to shift wagons away from specific targets. It wrote about this in a post... let it grab it for you. It thinks Dave is scum trying to control how this phase goes for the sake of a strategy.

Okay and you think that strategy benefits scum? Or is this theory talking about how it could possibly benefit scum depending on where they landed in draft. Cause now we are speculating on speculating. If you think he is providing a strategy he thinks is beneficial to scum and twisting it to say its beneficial for town.

We in business.
I doubt thats the case because hell even when im scum i usually tell town what I legit think is the best town strategy to do. I usually do this because I think town is gonna ignore me regardless, but also people will townread me for pushing it as well.

It thinks the following three things.

It thinks Pav is an easy target and its experience says easy targets rarely flip scum, at least, not the way Pav looks.

It thinks Dave's behaviour indicates that there is a deeper agenda behind his moves that don't match his words, and that he is behaving in a way that harms town.

It thinks that as a result, Dave probably has a partner that is under fire he is protecting from being a wagon or is possibly a wagon that might tip over, and so is directing towards Pav as a result.

That's its argument.

[the worst]

We are not killing the second in the draft order D1.

By this logic, if scum outdraft is we essentially are burning townies and eliminations for fun and profit to avoid hitting potential roles?

Did you miss where I said this was restricted to D1?

No, it did not. It knows any game has a limited number of town eliminations before we lose, and with two possible vigilantes in the game, burning townies is the last thing on its mind. It doesn't know if it agrees that we have a whole Day and Night cycle to give. If both Vigs are in the game and even one is in the hands of scum, the odds that both vigs hit town increase dramatically. It believes, as a result if we hit town day 1 without consideration, and then two vigs eventually remove two more town, we're at what 6-3? That leaves us with 1 elimination before we are in endgame.

It's just not certain that there is a good world where we can afford to say "these players are off limits for a day, go searching elsewhere". It understands the logic, infact it gets the entire concept given there are a lot of powerful town roles in the game we do not wish to expose but it really thinks that something like this should be considered the same way that number logic psychology should. A place to begin, but if a player is transparently the most scummy player in the lobby... it's not right to just allow that player to thrive unchecked.

To this: I think we should sort them but it's pretty hard to work up any motivation to push them seriously because the 11/14 chance of hitting town at the top of the draft is severely ev vs. the 3/14 chance of hitting scum at the top of the draft which is like... mildly +ev

[Firebringer]

Dave probably has a partner that is under fire he is protecting from being a wagon or is possibly a wagon that might tip over,

you have anyone in mind for this theory or this vibing

[PenguinPower]

From its perspective, it thinks that Dave is leveraging his draft position and his nature to make counter logical arguments to shift wagons away from specific targets. It wrote about this in a post... let it grab it for you. It thinks Dave is scum trying to control how this phase goes for the sake of a strategy.

Okay and you think that strategy benefits scum? Or is this theory talking about how it could possibly benefit scum depending on where they landed in draft. Cause now we are speculating on speculating. If you think he is providing a strategy he thinks is beneficial to scum and twisting it to say its beneficial for town.

We in business.
I doubt thats the case because hell even when im scum i usually tell town what I legit think is the best town strategy to do. I usually do this because I think town is gonna ignore me regardless, but also people will townread me for pushing it as well.

It thinks the following three things.

It thinks Pav is an easy target and its experience says easy targets rarely flip scum, at least, not the way Pav looks.

It thinks Dave's behaviour indicates that there is a deeper agenda behind his moves that don't match his words, and that he is behaving in a way that harms town.

It thinks that as a result, Dave probably has a partner that is under fire he is protecting from being a wagon or is possibly a wagon that might tip over, and so is directing towards Pav as a result.

That's its argument.

Dave is on the pav counter wagon though…

[Jake The Wolfie]

I am aware that it wishes to execute Dave, but I am unaware of the wrongdoings of Dave.

It's said it across several posts today, but its take on Dave's interactions with it and the thread is essentially that Dave is trying to accomplish goals like game control and shifting targets for elimination without consistent logic and with tactics it considers shady and suspicious.

I've looked at some of Dave's earlier posts, and I'm not really seeing what you're saying. He reminds me a little of JacksonVirgo, but more analytical and stoic.

[Dannflor]

maybe it's laziness but i am increasingly feeling like the active talkers recently might just be a block of town

gob is appropriately on the edge

[Oblivion]

We are not killing the second in the draft order D1.

By this logic, if scum outdraft is we essentially are burning townies and eliminations for fun and profit to avoid hitting potential roles?

If we have a POE of 5 people, including 1 at the top and 4 at the bottom of the draft, it generally makes sense to sort through those at the bottom before those at the top. Night actions can help to tidy up the alignments of the rest of the POE if we're incorrect about the person at the top.

This is a mechanical argument so coming from me, it's boring and unconvincing but it's got logical merit.

I'd love to hear what it's scumreading about Dave

It understands that much of the argument, but currently it thinks Brian and Pav are town, and Dave is scum. It thinks Firebringer is town, it knows it is town...

That does not leave much of the bottom of the list. NotAScum? It has no read at all on that slot, it doesn't even have a mental model of it from lack of interaction. You? It has found your posting to it mostly informative and matching wits with it, it's not impossible you're scum and it doesn't have as much of a town read on you as it does Brian Pav or Firebringer but it wouldn't consider you its day one priority.

So where does that leave it to look but the top? Jake's weird number to land in the middle play? Gob's inane posts that it doesn't even want to begin interacting with? Sure, it'll kill either of those. Jake's poke at it to join the brian Wagon make it feel strange and suspicious. Gob's posting has made it want to kill him on sight but it thinks that may be annoyance?

[Jake The Wolfie]

This is what Americans would call a Graham Post, and what Britans would call a Digestive Post.

[the worst]

worstie what is ur read on me and why

you're like the main character of this game I don't think I'm going to get a super wild read on you for a while

I think you're probably town for now

I liked a couple of your conversations this phase and I think some of your takes are a bit lukewarm but I think you believe them. I'm also generally just like upside down to where ur at with this game & do not have myself in my POE so it's not surprising that I find your reads mid. I think they make enough sense in the world you're living in.

You've felt like surface level earnest in convos when it's been important

I think you've said things without thinking in enough ways that tends to come from genuine thoughts > scum thoughts

Idk that's kinda all I got you're not a high priority read for me but I'm pretty comfortable with you rn

[Oblivion]

From its perspective, it thinks that Dave is leveraging his draft position and his nature to make counter logical arguments to shift wagons away from specific targets. It wrote about this in a post... let it grab it for you. It thinks Dave is scum trying to control how this phase goes for the sake of a strategy.

Okay and you think that strategy benefits scum? Or is this theory talking about how it could possibly benefit scum depending on where they landed in draft. Cause now we are speculating on speculating. If you think he is providing a strategy he thinks is beneficial to scum and twisting it to say its beneficial for town.

We in business.
I doubt thats the case because hell even when im scum i usually tell town what I legit think is the best town strategy to do. I usually do this because I think town is gonna ignore me regardless, but also people will townread me for pushing it as well.

It thinks the following three things.

It thinks Pav is an easy target and its experience says easy targets rarely flip scum, at least, not the way Pav looks.

It thinks Dave's behaviour indicates that there is a deeper agenda behind his moves that don't match his words, and that he is behaving in a way that harms town.

It thinks that as a result, Dave probably has a partner that is under fire he is protecting from being a wagon or is possibly a wagon that might tip over, and so is directing towards Pav as a result.

That's its argument.

Dave is on the pav counter wagon though…

True, but Brian is also town from its position.

[the worst]

I am aware that it wishes to execute Dave, but I am unaware of the wrongdoings of Dave.

It's said it across several posts today, but its take on Dave's interactions with it and the thread is essentially that Dave is trying to accomplish goals like game control and shifting targets for elimination without consistent logic and with tactics it considers shady and suspicious.

I've looked at some of Dave's earlier posts, and I'm not really seeing what you're saying. He reminds me a little of JacksonVirgo, but more analytical and stoic.

This is not a comparison I ever thought I'd see but I kinda see where you're coming from in the abstract

[Firebringer]

if im the main character this game is doomed

[Jake The Wolfie]

maybe it's laziness but i am increasingly feeling like the active talkers recently might just be a block of town

gob is appropriately on the edge

Why aren't we pushing this Dunnstral fellow? He hasn't posted in days!