Micro Normal 1100 | Game Over

[KayJayQueue]

Snow is saying we have it right and they'd rather not read the whole thread. Just put them out of their misery.
I've replaced into heavily suspected slots as town and the instinct is always to fight, because you don't want to let the dastardly scum get away with it.

I didn’t think of that. So it’s more of a “they already suspect me, why bother” kind of attitude in your opinion than a “I don’t want to do all this work as town when they’re about to vote me out”? I can’t really tell the difference.

[KayJayQueue]

Why would a guy sub into a game just to say "eh you can go ahead and hammer me"?

Yeah I’m not vibing with that. Is it really possible we just got 2 apathetic people in the same slot? To me that makes it a lot less certain to me that it’s scum. Unless this is some play but that’s extremely risky especially jumping in late and taking that stance.

Wait why does town give up more likely than scum here?

I don’t know? I assumed people are more invested in scum games? I don’t have any actual experience with people being replaced so I’m just guessing here.

[RolandOfGilead]

Snow is saying we have it right and they'd rather not read the whole thread. Just put them out of their misery.

Yeah that's my theory too.

You all can speculate on whether I'm faking you out by asking this question, but I am genuinely asking: can mafia talk to each other privately during the day?

[FancyPants]

Snow is saying we have it right and they'd rather not read the whole thread. Just put them out of their misery.
I've replaced into heavily suspected slots as town and the instinct is always to fight, because you don't want to let the dastardly scum get away with it.

I didn’t think of that. So it’s more of a “they already suspect me, why bother” kind of attitude in your opinion than a “I don’t want to do all this work as town when they’re about to vote me out”? I can’t really tell the difference.

Because as town you know that people are wrong or that your wagon has nefarious actors, so there is incentive to play to win.
If you're scum that replaces in to a scummy slot there may be nothing you can do to convince anyone. Also you

know

the wagon is actually correct so it's much harder to bs your way out of it.

[RolandOfGilead]

I'm still going to hold my vote for now, for reasons I will disclose later.

[Snow2697]

No. I'm not giving up. But hammering me without giving a chance to read and react would give town info. Who is that quick and why? Assuming we have 2 scums, quite helpful.
Will be with you with my views separately.

[GuyInFreezer]

Eh it’s null for me. Could be town not caring, or scum bluffing.

[RolandOfGilead]

But hammering me without giving a chance to read and react would give town info.

Is this a slip?

[DragonEater70]

Votecount 1.9

Votecount 1.9

Snow2697 (3)

Doctor Drew, FancyPants, JacksonVirgo

E-2

Not_Mafia (3):

Not_Mafia, KayJayQueue, Solon

E-2

GuyInFreezer (1):

Snow2697

Not Voting (2):

GuyInFreezer, RolandofGilead

With 9 Alive, it takes 5 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-03-13 05:56:04)

Mod Notes

Hi it's me, your secret backup mod!

[KayJayQueue]

I need to get some thoughts in order, if you don't mind can I get a few opinions on the record:
@Drew, what do you think of Kay?
@Kay, are you leaning more town or more scum on Drew?

Have you figured out how you’re feeling about all this yet?

[FancyPants]

I need to get some thoughts in order, if you don't mind can I get a few opinions on the record:
@Drew, what do you think of Kay?
@Kay, are you leaning more town or more scum on Drew?

Have you figured out how you’re feeling about all this yet?

It's really hard to move onto other suspects when we still have NM and the Snow slot in the game - it might be the case that they are both scum, I've had games like that before.
I'm trying to avoid overthinking for the moment. It's fair to say I'm very suspicious of you.

[KayJayQueue]

I need to get some thoughts in order, if you don't mind can I get a few opinions on the record:
@Drew, what do you think of Kay?
@Kay, are you leaning more town or more scum on Drew?

Have you figured out how you’re feeling about all this yet?

It's really hard to move onto other suspects when we still have NM and the Snow slot in the game - it might be the case that they are both scum, I've had games like that before.
I'm trying to avoid overthinking for the moment. It's fair to say I'm very suspicious of you.

Well I can say you’re wasting your time looking at me. I’m not sure how to prove it to you when one of the reasons you sus me is because our reads line up. But if the only way to get you off my back is to drastically shift where my head is at, I’m not going to do that. I have a feeling we are voting N_M or Snow today so we’ll probably both be here for Day 2. I think that because I doubt I’ll get killed if I’m high on the sus list and if they want me around as someone to push next, they’ll definitely leave you in too because you’re pushing me hardest. I understand that we have to sus everyone but all I ask is that you don’t focus too much on me so much so that you miss something coming from someone else.

[FancyPants]

Just to be clear I'm not scum reading you because our reads align I'm scum reading you because you've been fairly sure that certain interactions have been TvT, and the 0% comment was suspicious for reasons I've gone into.

Anyway I'll keep an open mind.

[Snow2697]

OMG. I have been through these pages. They blew my mind. Will now write and post my thoughts.

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah my presence is a sight to behold. I understand

[KayJayQueue]

Yeah my presence is a sight to behold. I understand

It’s okay

[Snow2697]

My quick ranking is below:

Solon and Fancy – townish
DD, GiF, Jackson – controversial
Roland – suspicious
Kay – scummy
Not Mafia – unclear

What complicates things is that we have players with different experience, skill, game style, level of involvement, readiness to share arguments (and respond to others’ arguments) etc. You can like style of some players, but disagree with their arguments (which does not necessarily make them scums). You can dislike style of the others but agree with their arguments or some of them. You can lack understanding of their agenda or arguments. So, players can be in different categories. This necessarily adds a huge degree of discretion in ranking them.

[GuyInFreezer]

Do explain Kay scum for me.

[KayJayQueue]

I waited that long for that? Okay, we can vote now lol Seriously, besides a couple tinfoil theories and Fancy being all over me, I’d love to understand the scum read on me as well as the sus on Roland which I’m not seeing. This really feels like scum piggybacking off of reads that are obviously bad (to someone with all the info) in an effort to push someone else in front of them.

[Snow2697]

Some explanations.

There has been interaction between Gob, GiF, Roland and Solon at the start of the game.
Gob claimed a cop. Voted GiF and called her scum.
GiF claimed vig, threatened to shoot Gob.
Solon jumped on GiF.
Roland defended GiF.

I think the main point is who are these four and whether (and how many) scums are there. I would say at least 1. Two possible, but could be overly lucky. Just 0, also not excluded.

Solon – on balance liked him the most.

GiF – don’t like her claiming 3 town reads there, if I take it right; looked like an attempt to end the conflict.

Gob/Jackson – Gob has been trolling, don’t like this style, but it does not prove per that he is scum, may be that helped to move things forward; Jackson has made a principled decision to attack Roland. I don’t understand the reasons for that. But I also suspect Roland (see below).

Roland – liked his stile the most. Agree with many of his points. But:
- he criticized Solon for being a troll, but did not seem to do the same with GiF for her vig claim;
- he criticized Solon for pushing a train on GiF (which I treat as moving the game forward to too quickly, see 54), and at the same time attacked Gob ("that's also an incredibly effective scum strategy to just troll all game long and give yourself an excuse to not move the game forward", see 42). He also said at 59: "I mean, it's page 1, who cares? This is a common occurrence in the game for people to say things that don't push the game forward." I don’t think that 42, 54 and 59 and Roland’s treatment of this Gob/Solon/GiF affair are consistent.
- he said in 228 that he saw more and more town!Solon over their interaction. Which was not my reading of their exchange.
- he said Gob could not be credited for pushing the game and did not deserve a town read, but over time he called Gob as town (478).
So, I have felt that as new conflicts arose between him and other players, he was trying to stop his previous ones and be on good terms with their participants. Which makes sense, but I don’t think that he was always consistent in his statements and approach here.

DD – Fancy voted him, got criticized by Roland for that, but DD launched a conflict with Roland instead of pushing Fancy with him. Seems like a principled move. Hardly a move by a scum. Roland is right that DD's case was not explained in detail (and DD did not seem to try to do so), and I found DD’s style overly aggressive. But his actions could have been honest moves from a town!DD.

Kay – avoids conflicts, takes fights very carefully. Seems like a similar pattern with Roland and GiF.

Fancy – agree with some of her points, disagree with the others.

Not Mafia – don’t understand him. A troll? Looks even more eccentric and extreme than Gob (which is not easy). Though DD gave some details on his previous experience with him.

Whom to lim?

- GiF, Jackson and DD – don’t think they should be limmed now.
- Not Mafia – can be a candidate, but looks more like a policy lim. Not sure this will give town a lot.
- Roland – the best candidate from the standpoint of info for the town. One of the 4 players in the initial conflict. A lot of conflicts are associated with him. But he is the most active and dedicated player. Limming him on D1 is a tough decision.
- Kay – can be a candidate. But again not sure this will give town a lot.

Might depend on number of scums. If 2, could be Not Mafia or Kay. If 3, may be we should not lose time and consider Roland. I have thought initially there can be 2 scums at most, but there was an opinion somewhere in the thread that 3 can be an option.

[JacksonVirgo]

Oop

[JacksonVirgo]

Anything more on my slot than gob trolling and pushing roland?

[GuyInFreezer]

I found the Roland read bit little strange.

Roland – liked his stile the most. Agree with many of his points. But:

So let's go over few of these real quick.

- he criticized Solon for being a troll, but did not seem to do the same with GiF for her vig claim;

Did the context of both situations look same to you?

- he criticized Solon for pushing a train on GiF (which I treat as moving the game forward to too quickly, see 54), and at the same time attacked Gob ("that's also an incredibly effective scum strategy to just troll all game long and give yourself an excuse to not move the game forward", see 42). He also said at 59: "I mean, it's page 1, who cares? This is a common occurrence in the game for people to say things that don't push the game forward." I don’t think that 42, 54 and 59 and Roland’s treatment of this Gob/Solon/GiF affair are consistent.

Again, did the context of those situations look same to you for them to have to warrant consistent treatments?

- he said in 228 that he saw more and more town!Solon over their interaction. Which was not my reading of their exchange.

Did the bit about the reaction test factor into this when you typed this?

- he said Gob could not be credited for pushing the game and did not deserve a town read, but over time he called Gob as town (478).

The post Roland said Gob didn't deserve a townread was 196, and the bits he mentioned that gob didn't move the game forward was before that.
That's quite a post gap between these and 478, ain't it?

So, let me ask you the real question here.
You just clicked ISO for Roland and just skimmed through that without context, didn't you?

[Snow2697]

Anything more on my slot than gob trolling and pushing roland?

Cannot say that I have mastered all details of your 30+ page thread within the time I had. Anything in particular you want to ask me?

[KayJayQueue]

Might depend on number of scums. If 2, could be Not Mafia or Kay. If 3, may be we should not lose time and consider Roland. I have thought initially there can be 2 scums at most, but there was an opinion somewhere in the thread that 3 can be an option.

In what world would I be mafia with N_M? I’ve had a vote on him almost the entire time, along with his self vote. He’s just as close to elimination as you are and you think a scum team would both risk that? (I don’t know how N_M plays so I can’t really speak on the self vote, though I think in general, they’re dumb) I get there’s “distancing” but this would be really stupid on my part if I were bad.