Micro Normal 1100 | Game Over

[KayJayQueue]

There’s no way that wasn’t town frustration. No. Way. My opinion on that is pretty set in stone especially after he was pretty much my strongest town read all game. He just got pushed to the edge of not being believed or listened to. This was a frustrating couple pages.

[Thomith]

Votecount 1.12

Votecount 1.12

Not_Mafia (3):

Not_Mafia, Solon, Malachai

E-2

Snow2697 (1)

FancyPants

Malachai (1):

Doctor Drew

Not Voting (4):

GuyInFreezer, Snow2697, JacksonVirgo, KayJayQueue

With 9 Alive, it takes 5 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-03-13 05:56:04)

Mod Notes

None

[Malachai]

I am going to clear this slot's vote as I work through the game.

UNVOTE:

[Snow2697]

@Kay - do you see Roland-Drew conflict as TvT?

Yes. But I don’t know why my opinion matters if I’m scum to you, unless you’re going to try to implicate one or the other as my “partner”. Then we’re really fucked as a town.

I don't think you and Drew can be "partners". Drew can be "partner" of N_M or Jackson. I have seen you in team with Roland in some scenarios.

But how can I implicate Drew or Roland as your "partner" so that town is in trouble? If you get limmed and flip town, then Drew or Roland cannot be blamed as your fellow scums. This implication seems to work only if you are scum.

[KayJayQueue]

@Kay - do you see Roland-Drew conflict as TvT?

Yes. But I don’t know why my opinion matters if I’m scum to you, unless you’re going to try to implicate one or the other as my “partner”. Then we’re really fucked as a town.

I don't think you and Drew can be "partners". Drew can be "partner" of N_M or Jackson. I have seen you in team with Roland in some scenarios.

But how can I implicate Drew or Roland as your "partner" so that town is in trouble? If you get limmed and flip town, then Drew or Roland cannot be blamed as your fellow scums. This implication seems to work only if you are scum.

No it screws town because I’m town. You’re so obsessed with twisting everything I say and your reasoning for me being scum is flimsy at best. All it’s doing is making me think you’re definitely scum trying to push town in any direction except where we were originally looking.

[Malachai]

Solon's initial set of posts seems a little awkward and over-the-top to me. Post 27, IMO he's going a little overboard with a case, and post 30, he seems a bit sensitive about being voted for.

I get good vibes from GuyInFreezer, kind of an understanding-of-the-game vibe and contributing meaningfully.

Gob seems to just be trolling which is neither townie nor scummy, I guess, and the game is still early (I'm at page 4 as I write this). I do see that he was replaced at some point also.

Kay seems to mostly be sitting on the sidelines, but she's also posting a lot and making her presence known, and that in particular is very townie to me. I think there's generally a good correlation between game involvement and towniness.

I continue to not really understand or follow what Solon is doing. In post 111, I don't get the scum read on GuyInFreezer (GuyInFreezer is probably my strongest town read at this point), nor do I get why he is already speculating on scum teams so early in the game. Also, now I see in post 122 that Solon thinks Kay is town now, despite saying "I do believe you could be scum" to Kay in 111? That seems like a fairly rapid, unnatural progression.

Doctor Drew posted a bit of fluff for a bit. I see here where he voted for Roland, but that vote and his subsequent interrogation don't align with the town read he gave Roland in post 142.

Okay, gonna fire this one off now because I'm finding some weird stuff with Drew I need to address in its own post.

[Malachai]

I guess I want to address this part in particular:

Your response to my question made me feel good to throw a vote out to see what happens.

And kinda seems like you acted in a way that someone who knows how the game works, but doesn't have all the experience would react as scum

I don't know that I really follow this at all. To recap, this exchange with Drew and Roland went like this:

Roland:

I am telling you that you are twisting my arguments and misrepresenting them. I know what my arguments are, what I am saying, and you do not. It is not your place to decide whether you are fairly representing what I am saying. It is mine and mine alone.

Drew:

I really vibe with this, seems like genuine frustration.

Roland, how much experience do you have with mafia?

Roland:

I used to play it with an old World of Warcraft guild of mine on our guild forum, though we called it Werewolf rather than mafia. I've played Town of Salem also, more recently. Been a while since I have played a true forum game of mafia, though, and our days were much shorter than this also. So if my playstyle seems a little weird or something y'all aren't used to, that might be why?

Drew:

VOTE: Roland

Roland:

Indeed, it makes perfect sense to abandon a town read and do a complete 180 if a person answers your question about mafia history and makes a dark tower reference. This vote makes perfect sense.

I read Roland's response here as very natural and genuine, and his much-touted "reaction" to the vote is basically just "uh...what?" Which I understand, because that's how I felt also, reading this. I don't see what there was in Roland's answer to Drew's question that seems suspicious, nor do I see anything particularly scummy in him giving an "uh...what?" reaction to a vote after he gave what seems like a totally innocuous reply to the question. Drew seems to argue that his reaction to the question was suspicious, and his reaction to the vote was scummy, and I am just not seeing either. I get the strong sense Drew is drumming up a case out of thin air that doesn't seem to align with what's really going on here.

On a side note:

Yes, Roiland and his quest for the drak toweler.

I nearly spit my water out of my mouth when I read this lol. I love the dry sense of humor.

[Malachai]

Through 10 pages, I note that Random Nurse has said pretty much nothing since a couple RVS votes on page 1, Not_Mafia made a crazy-ass entrance and didn't do anything else, and FancyPants hasn't said MUCH, though that reads list was good. I do actually think maybe I should take a closer look at Kay? It's the fact that I vibe with the Drew read that makes me think perhaps I should take the Kay read seriously?


Post 250, just what the hell, I don't see how GuyInFreezer is "bleeding scum" in the slightest. He's a strong town read. Is Gob trying to discredit the strongest townie? (albeit quite poorly)

Stuff it, Kirby.

lol oh my GOD.

Not_Mafia's reads list, obviously I can't feel great about it with him listing my slot as the scummiest role. I also don't think Gob deserves the towniest read either. But then everything inbetween, I am mostly okay with? Maybe? I think? Feels like I've thrown a lot of what-ifs in there. But most importantly, he didn't talk about these reads at all, hasn't defended them in the slightest, which isn't helpful.

Around the time that JacksonVirgo swapped in, Drew's only contributions are just fluff and not substantive, which doesn't look good for Drew.


As for JacksonVirgo, honestly I don't feel great about his introduction which feels largely meme-y and is skipping over a lot of content. I mean he's even outright admitting to it in post 353. I already had bad vibes about Gob for separate reasons so this slot looks pretty bad to me right now.


If 362 is redacted, why isn't 363?


Post 432 is a head-scratcher for me. He emphasizes that he "dislikes GIF in comparison with the others" and I totally disagree. Also: "I trust Drew/N_M aren't wolves together" - how does he arrive at a conclusion like that when Not_Mafia has done next to nothing in this game?


I really like that Kay asked the question she asked in post 448. Town wants to work with others, wants outside input. I just see Kay sticking around a lot and that is more commonly town to really be around the game a lot.

Infant annihilator sounds like ear cancer, sorry not sorry. What do you listen to if you want to relax?


Hell of a case made by my previous slot partner, and Drew's response in 483 is, like, REALLY bad.

20 pages in now. (posting every 10 pages of review)

[Malachai]

I need to take care of some things, will keep catching up as I'm able. Feel free to leave me with questions or comments on whatever.

[JacksonVirgo]

Infant annihilator sounds like ear cancer, sorry not sorry.

Aight

VOTE: Malachi

[Malachai]

Post 512, I see my previous slotted player just had trouble keeping his composure.

On a side note I don't really see why JacksonVirgo was inserting himself needlessly into that Roland vs. Drew interaction; clearly would have been a lot better if he had stayed out of it. I can't say I understand his compulsion to get involved there.

VOTE: RN

I hate limming all lurkers on D1.....but I am kinda ok with this here......and I think I am ok with Roland living for another day, I believe they will continue to spew scum if actually scum.......but do realize that we are also matching each other in frustration

VOTE: Nurse

I hate limming players just for being absent too, so I hate this vote.

Post 591from FancyPants feels good. I like when a player repeatedly summarizes where they are at with the game.

This post is interesting:

I'll vote for anyone in RN/NM/Drew/at this stage - and I'll listen to Roland/Solon/Freezer on who, as my town block, I think Jackson is town but I personally don't think they have a good grasp on this game seeing as their two strongest reads are my strongest townread - and the only person I can confirm is town.

Are you joking? What makes you believe you’re right over me? This is honestly insulting, different reads doesn’t mean I don’t have a grasp on the game. Stop this line of thinking immediately.

JacksonVirgo appears to be quite pissed off that someone is telling him he doesn't have a grasp on the game. He's being a bit sensitive and he was with this also:

Kinda wanna flip you simply because of how combative you are, I don't work well with people like you

I think my fear is that scum is great at utilizing the appearance of emotion to shut people down. I ask myself what the point of the emotion was, what the outcome was, and the outcome in each case isn't great. He doesn't want FancyPants to be able to give an impression that suggests JacksonVirgo's takes can't be trusted, and the whole "people like you" thing directed at my previous slot owner is quite belittling.

With that said, I am surprisingly ok with N_M’s readlist.

This is terrible. He scum-claimed, and you don't even know for sure who he is talking about with the pseudonyms!

I think Freezer is actually scum here. Either with Not_Mafia, or his tactic is just to keep the insane players alive.

I find myself agreeing with Solon here. I don't really follow why GuyInFreezer is "surprisingly okay" with the reads when it lists my slot as the scummiest, and, to quote GuyInFreezer himself:

Also I’m going need to see a cop guilty and a flipped cop to see Roland being scum at this point.

So now I find myself feeling better about Solon, feeling worse about GuyInFreezer. But overall I still feel quite townie about GuyInFreezer, so I think I just need to follow up on why GuyInFreezer gave this take when he has such a strong town read on Not_Mafia's scummiest read. And I can't say I agree with this take from Solon either:

I like Jackson's thoughts upon catching-up. Along with what I said above, I think that slot has to be town-binned unless something changes dramatically.

There's also this:

I am leaving room for being incorrect about you

This was directed at Roland. I mean, that "room" is to eliminate an easy inactive target. I think he's overstating how "forgiving" he really is here.

Oh, I don’t townread N_M. I was surprisingly ok with N_M’s readlist, but that’s about it. It’s not like he did anything after that other than wanting to lolhammer RN.

Yeah, so, GuyInFreezer drives that point home, that they're "surprisingly okay" with a list with their top town read as the top scum read? I mean, aren't the names at the extremes of these lists really the most important names in the lists? I don't follow this at all.

30 pages in. I notice that everyone seems in favor of eliminating our inactive players of Not_Mafia / Random Nurse. I'm genuinely concerned that they are both town, that they are being suspected because they are such easy elimination targets. My needle ticked upwards on Solon so I think it's plausible that my two scummiest reads at the moment, which are Drew / JacksonVirgo, are the scum team.

[JacksonVirgo]

What do you listen to if you want to relax?

Infant Annihilator

. Bad Omens, but like all the vocals from bands like Lorna Shore, Sleep Token etc that are vocally complex relaxes me as it stops my brain from overworking.

[JacksonVirgo]

So your read on me is purely based on the way I react emotionally?

[JacksonVirgo]

That and the way I did my catchup, lol?

[JacksonVirgo]

You matching the same agenda as your pred gives me a lot of pause

[Malachai]

I like FancyPants' focus, asking a question in post 752, not getting an answer, so then repeating the question in post 804. I would think scum would just let an unanswered question go, but FancyPants's persistence reads as townie to me.

This:

@Snow, when can we expect your take on the game and your scum reads and such?

4-5 hrs. returning from work. you can go ahead and hammer me if you feel so based on my predecessor's actions. just do it quickly.

In my experience, a person says this, it means they're town. I don't know why someone would swap into a game, learn they have one partner whose victory depends on this new player's contributions, and just say "eh fuck it, you can just kill me". Whereas a townie mentality is more like, well, there are lots of townies who probably know this game a lot better than I do, so why bother? I was completely null on this slot prior to this and this definitely trends the slot upwards towards town.

I spent a lot of time reading and digesting post 844, as well as the follow-up on it (particularly from GuyInFreezer). I don't think I agree with the reads but also I don't know that Snow has paid close enough attention to everything and is perhaps putting too much weight on the wrong things. Like why is there so much analysis of the Gob / GuyInFreezer interaction at the start, which was pretty clear to me just kind of a troll-y back and forth? I don't think I read Snow as scum for this, as the more obvious explanation is that there's a hell of a lot of ground to cover, in a short amount of time, and his slot is very much under the gun. I shouldn't be taken as a good example of how much a new player normally does when they swap in because I don't have the normal responsibilities you all likely have which would stop you from sinking time into this like I have just now lol. Think I just need to see more from Snow to sort this out.

Snow, do you mind if I ask, are you a native english speaker?

I appreciate that snow submitted post 873 and answered all of GuyInFreezer's questions. Willingness to answer questions and work WITH people is very townie.

I don't like that Not_Mafia didn't answer post 881.

Post 900, totally agree with Solon here. Drew said:

Snow actually has out effort in at least, but I am always weary when someone really towns it up when they repp in, so I am still fine with an RN lim.

In essence he said "he appears to be town; therefore, we should vote him out". Like what? At the very least, you can be suspicious, but now you're saying that it is SO suspicious that, out of everyone you would like to eliminate today, you want it to be that slot? That does not add up in my mind. He did later try to amend that by saying:

I guess I should have specified when someone reps into a slot that is highly scum read

But that seems like a forced explanation to me. Obviously, just because a slot is scum-READ, that doesn't mean the slot IS scum. And the argument is that, in that case, if someone comes in and seems more townie, then the right logical conclusion is that they aren't? This just doesn't make sense to me.

After this I see Roland kinda lost his cool and I understood a few pages before he left why he left. This is a stressful game and a lot of hurt feelings can emerge from it, no matter your alignment, so hopefully people don't beat up on the guy and just let him be after he chose to leave.

My final thought is that I do think Roland has a totally valid point about why he shouldn't be considered to be partnered with Snow, since he cast a vote on his partner that left him in a very vulnerable position. I mean the other obvious reason that this slot isn't partnered with snow is that this slot isn't mafia anyway lol, but I understand people want to do their theorycrafting and such, and that point in particular is legitimate.

I should be caught up now, but that was undoubtedly a lot of reading in a short amount of time and I may have missed stuff so I'll try to keep looking back and uncovering things as I go. Again please feel free to ask me / prod me about anything.

[Malachai]

Overall I would say JacksonVirgo and Drew are my scummiest reads here. Not sure I am on board with a Not_Mafia elimination, though I am not anything above null on that slot (that just means I'm not scumreading him either). I would say I'm very much not at all on board on eliminating Snow. GuyInFreezer is my top town read, and I feel townie about KayJayQueue, FancyPants, and Solon.

[Malachai]

So your read on me is purely based on the way I react emotionally?

That and the way I did my catchup, lol?

That's an oversimplification of my view here. It is not just those two things; it's also what I feel like is kind of a suspicious pattern of submitting lots of words but not really saying a whole lot. Giving the appearance of being involved, without really BEING involved. That is the kind of vibe I feel like I get from you.

If you have any more singular and substantive reads / cases you've made on people, please show me. I know I read fast but I still feel like there wasn't a whole lot of direction or consolidation of things from your end.

[Snow2697]

@Kay - do you see Roland-Drew conflict as TvT?

Yes. But I don’t know why my opinion matters if I’m scum to you, unless you’re going to try to implicate one or the other as my “partner”. Then we’re really fucked as a town.

I don't think you and Drew can be "partners". Drew can be "partner" of N_M or Jackson. I have seen you in team with Roland in some scenarios.

But how can I implicate Drew or Roland as your "partner" so that town is in trouble? If you get limmed and flip town, then Drew or Roland cannot be blamed as your fellow scums. This implication seems to work only if you are scum.

No it screws town because I’m town. You’re so obsessed with twisting everything I say and your reasoning for me being scum is flimsy at best. All it’s doing is making me think you’re definitely scum trying to push town in any direction except where we were originally looking.

Your initial phrase "we're really fucked as a town" is not well suited for a situation where there is one mislim.

And how is it that I try to "push town in any direction except where we were originally looking"? I set out my elimination options: you and N_M. I openly admitted that I am also an option if the town thinks RN was too toxic. Before I went through the thread and got fully on board I was fine with town limming me if it has made this decision. Was town not looking in my and N_M's direction? And am I really hard pushing you and buying votes? No, I am not focused on you, since there are other issues. You simply continue to attribute to me some (your) thoughts which are not mine.

[Malachai]

Also, this is my read on your slot, some of which came from Gob. Like I said before I feel like his attempt to frame GuyInFreezer was just flat-out wrong and I don't understand how that read comes from a townie. I totally get why scum would be so threatened by someone who claims to have the whole game figured out "before page 10", so this is not entirely based on your actions.

[Malachai]

That was @JacksonVirgo, btw.

[JacksonVirgo]

So your read on me is purely based on the way I react emotionally?

That and the way I did my catchup, lol?

That's an oversimplification of my view here. It is not just those two things; it's also what I feel like is kind of a suspicious pattern of submitting lots of words but not really saying a whole lot. Giving the appearance of being involved, without really BEING involved. That is the kind of vibe I feel like I get from you.

If you have any more singular and substantive reads / cases you've made on people, please show me. I know I read fast but I still feel like there wasn't a whole lot of direction or consolidation of things from your end.

There is no requirement for town to make substantive cases on people. I've made my arguments when I've wanted to make my arguments. I am not really one to consolidate that often, one of my recent games just closed was showing the extreme end of that. In fact, I am trying to fix that side of my playstyle with this very game, hence my behaviour surrounding your predecessor. So given this is one of the games I've been most consolidating, yet still giving my personal direction I feel this read is quite wrong for me as a player. Not expecting you to know how I play of course, that'd be silly.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm waiting for others to comment on their part of your posts before I do, for what I feel is obvious

[Malachai]

There is no requirement for town to make substantive cases on people. I've made my arguments when I've wanted to make my arguments. I am not really one to consolidate that often, one of my recent games just closed was showing the extreme end of that. In fact, I am trying to fix that side of my playstyle with this very game, hence my behaviour surrounding your predecessor. So given this is one of the games I've been most consolidating, yet still giving my personal direction I feel this read is quite wrong for me as a player. Not expecting you to know how I play of course, that'd be silly.

Ok then, what are your reads, at the moment? Maybe just the two that you think are scum? And what are your thoughts on Not_Mafia in particular?

[Malachai]

@Drew

Forgive me if I missed it, but do you have a reads list also?