Mini 2332: A Mid-scummer Nights Dream II | GG

[DragonEater70]

hi it's me Jupiter and I'm phone posting which is really annoying but it has the benefit of autocorrect
I'm the less cool member of this hydra and my signoff is

Jupiter!!!! It's my pleasure to be finally playing with you!

[DragonEater70]

Do you guys think the third dream would result in Vi suddenly joining the game and/or influencing it in some way? I think it's unlikely but I can only hope.

[DragonEater70]

Well my reading comprehension sucks. But I think Vi is known for setup design so it'd probably influence the setup?

Pedit: Prism! It is also my pleasure to be playing with you!

[DragonEater70]

I'll be voting for either Vi or Dial.

Also I think we're supposed to RVS as usual?

VOTE: Aureal for being Light Yagami.

[DragonEater70]

NVM mod just confirmed you can cast 3 dream votes. I'm voting Dial, Vi, Sheeple.

[DragonEater70]

Aureal post something towny please so I can locktown you on page 2.

[DragonEater70]

Wow Aureal is even more locktown than Python would've been if they were here. Which reminds me I miss playing with Python

[DragonEater70]

usually with a bastard Tarhalindur

What's that mean btw?

[DragonEater70]

I agree with dial, vi and sheeple

Gimli trying to pocket me? Again? Must be town!

I already have 2 townreads! That's two more townreads than I ought to have when nothing traditionally alignment indicative has been said!

[DragonEater70]

EBWOP: the claim that nothing alignment indicative has been said was written without regard to Ravens or Kyo.

[DragonEater70]

Ok Gimli is seriously locktown. I am never voting him this game and it isn't a joke.

[DragonEater70]

I just finished a game with scum Gimli and he was trying very hard to pocket basically the entire playerlist (and succeeding in no small degree), but not really solving. Here I can feel that he wants to solve. The difference is day and night. I am simply going to treat Gimli as mod-confirmed town.

[DragonEater70]

I'm also locktowning DE

<3

Let's try not to repeat what happened in the last fferyllt game

[DragonEater70]

WAIT

I just realized that this is Kyoko Kirirgi in here

I was sure for some reason it was ssbm_kyouko

fml

Also Hiiiiiii Kyoko! I enjoyed playing with you last year!

[DragonEater70]

I'm also locktowning DE

<3

Let's try not to repeat what happened in the last fferyllt game

I have no idea what happened in the last fferyllt game, wanna tell?

I mean the one where I hammered you

[DragonEater70]

After we both locktowned each other

[DragonEater70]

Yeah the slide one sounds like negative utility tbh. I would prefer to have it easier to achieve a lim, not harder.

[DragonEater70]

Oh by the way, in case people are not voting the dial, it has a very very high chance that dream has some sort of revive.

Meaning?

[DragonEater70]

Wait

@Mod - the effects in post 66 are the effects that will happen if the slide dream is selected at the end of the phase, right? Or have these effects already been applied?

[DragonEater70]

Oh by the way, in case people are not voting the dial, it has a very very high chance that dream has some sort of revive.

Meaning?

Meaning that we should all vote for the dial one?

I meant, what do you mean by "some sort of revive"?

[DragonEater70]

I was gonna say "how is plurality lim not easier" and then I saw the Bad Dream selection in case of ties.
So that's probably a bad one.

Because I don't want to wait an additional 3 days or even 4-5 days if we would've normally settled on a lim before deadline but now we can't. This gives scum more time to squeeze out of tight situations.

[DragonEater70]

Oh by the way, in case people are not voting the dial, it has a very very high chance that dream has some sort of revive.

Meaning?

Meaning that we should all vote for the dial one?

I meant, what do you mean by "some sort of revive"?

So 11 and 12, right?
So normally, at the end of Night 1, we have 11 players left because one eliminated, and one killed by mafia.
But if we're changing 11 to 12, what would that mean?

Hmmmmmmmmmm

Well I've already voted for it so

[DragonEater70]

Alright I'm gonna log off for the night. You guys have fun!

[DragonEater70]

I know I said I was gone but I'm an addict and Black quoted me so how can I resist answering.

First off, it was fireisred not Jupiter.

Second, you do you Black. I'm happy with my read.

Third, @fire: I was hoping to get absolutely nothing! That post wasn't a reaction test or anything, I was just stating my thoughts. I mean I guess I did hope on some level that posting a read would somehow help to maybe squeeze out of RVS (which I think did happen even though I haven't done more than a cursory skim of anything since my last post), but I didn't really plan for anything consciously. I just posted it because I felt like posting it.

[DragonEater70]

It probably came out wrong so I just wanna clarify that I don't think I was necessarily the driving force in getting out of RVS even though Prism did post a scumread of me and you did post a question/shade/idk of me so I'd say it did achieve something wrt to getting out of RVS, but again my objective wasn't that, I just had a read and I posted it because that's what you do with early reads, you post them and hope that somehow or another you're going to end up out of RVS

Have I created a word salad? Perhaps. However I'll have you know that it was a word salad made by a townperson. And also that my read on Gimli is real and confident and, to use a usesPython term (sort of), townpilled. And also I think, if I'm allowed to indulge in usesPython imitation, that questioning that read is cringe and mafpilled.

[DragonEater70]

just seemed like a weird thing to post immediately after gimli had a kind of awkward pocketing-style interaction with kyoko

I actually disliked the pocketing interaction buuuut I thought the fact that he didn't lean into my townread of him just a few posts prior felt extremely town. Like as scum I'd expect him to lean into it and pocket me rather than look like he's suspecting me for no reason.

[DragonEater70]

Second, you do you Black. I'm happy with my read.

I'm surprised you're so confident in that read tbh. Gimli's first 20 posts of Death Note have a ton of solving in them

I'm curious, if I showed you games where scum!Gimli was aggressive and tried to seem like he was solving early would that change your mind at all?

~B

See the thing is that the

way

he want about solvong was completely different in Death Note. Throughout all that game I mentioned how I felt he was pocketing me and Klick, which was true. Because he wasn't questioning people's alignments sincerely, he was just townreading the guys he knew would want to townread him and towncore with him. And here he did the opposite. And you can say "well can't he do the opposite as scum", but I just don't think that's his scum playstyle and I do think it's instantly recognizable as his town paystyle whereas in death note it looked good on the surface but wasn't it.

It's kind of like how when you are in a dream (when gimli is scum), you might

think

that you are not dreaming (that he's town), but when you are awake, you

know

you are awake (that he's town). Idk how better to explain it but that's how I feel about Gimli.

[DragonEater70]

This doesn't have anything to do with alignment but seeing "townpilled" and "mafpilled" convinces me that I need to be wheeled into the nursing home. I can see clearly the culture that led to this moment, and I understand that it evolved to leave me far behind.

I will note that I used it jokingly under the influence of it being roughly midnight, and qould not use these terms under normal circumstances.

[DragonEater70]

I will note that I used it jokingly under the influence of it being roughly midnight, and

would

not use these terms under normal circumstances.

EBWOP

[DragonEater70]

Someone has had a revelation!

This slide never seems to end...

It's a water slide! It goes on and on and on! What's not to like?

---

The day deadline is extended by 3 days. All players become loved, negating the first two votes on them. At deadline, if no elimination has been achieved, there is a plurality elimination instead. Ties in plurality are resolved by the

Bad Dream

team's selection in twilight.

Every single negative consequence of this dream can be negated by us just all agreeing that it should be negated and playing accordingly. (Assuming we all agree that the impact of these is negative)

We agree that we're ending the day by the usual deadline. We also agree that when someone reaches majority, we collapse onto them regardless of our reads.

I think this dream is neutral in earlier days, and negative-utility as we approach ELo. Which probably makes it a good early choice

Wow is this going to be the first time that I vote Klick and it's NOT a reaction test? Cool cool!

VOTE: Klickity Klick

[DragonEater70]

I'll have more reads to share tomorrow probably, but yeah it's past midnight and I can feel my brain melting.

[DragonEater70]

First, I think Dragon was a lot more hostile and skeptical when accused of virtually anything in Pizza Kids.

I don't think this is inaccurate characterization of me at all, I am very much aware that I'm playing very differently to that game, but I also feel this is a vastly different gamestate than Pizza Kids and I think it's a bit of a stretch to think it's alignment indicative that I'm responding to things differently while ignoring the context, tbh.

RE the second point, I'm not even sure what you're trying to convey? Black said she didn't agree with my read, I said I don't really care about that, then she actually asked a question regarding why I had the read so I explained it... How is responding differently to two different things remotely related to my alignment???

[DragonEater70]

Can't fall asleep, maybe this will help

VOTE: Von Payne

Also @fire, I am not sure whether I'm supposed to be insulted or not by you calling my thought process backwards and then saying it's a "patented dragoneater brain thought pattern" buuuuuut since you are apparently a cool and not bad person I'm going to assume no harm was meant.

[DragonEater70]

Wow is this going to be the first time that I vote Klick and it's NOT a reaction test?

No

You are wrong btw, it wasn't a reaction test. I just felt it was weird for you to open with a random thought about mech and then disappear instead of engaging with the plenty of content that was there. But my VP scumread is bigger so here I am not voting you atm.

[DragonEater70]

Alright off for another 30 minutes of trying to fall asleep, maybe it'll work this time.

[DragonEater70]

Wow is this going to be the first time that I vote Klick and it's NOT a reaction test?

No

You are wrong btw, it wasn't a reaction test. I just felt it was weird for you to open with a random thought about mech and then disappear instead of engaging with the plenty of content that was there. But my VP scumread is bigger so here I am not voting you atm.

What do you expect me to have an opinion on at the minute?

My townread on Gimli, people's reactions to it, people's scumread on Gimli (I think that may have happened after your entrance but you still ignored it), people's scunread of Black (same as for last one), Kyoko x Gimli interaction, Ravens trying to get out of RVS but with pretty meh content... The list goes on.

I will say however that your recent posting (i.e. all three posts since the one I voted you for) have made me lean more town on you. But the above is the original reasoning for the vote.

I don't know enough about the Klick or Von Payne votes to even take a realistic guess at Dragon's perspective there. I just don't agree with them.

It's your Mith-given right to disagree with whatever you want to, but I think it's weird to disagree with something that you don't even know. I explained Klick vote, will explain Von Payne vote in a few minutes.

[DragonEater70]

(using Mith-given right because we're in a 2013 game and I hear that's the correct lingo in this time period)

[DragonEater70]

The vote on Von Payne was mainly that I didn't like how Black pushed me. I think it's okay for Black to have a scumread of me here (even though her reasoning is pretty meh and she's hypocritical in saying I'm not reevaluating but not trying to understand my stance herself). That's not what I have a problem with, in fact it's probably towny. What I have a problem with is the fact she's been pushing me but not voting and also apparently pushing Gimli and also not voting? It kinda feels like she's pushing for the sake of making a push and doesn't reallyyyy think we're scum. Idk. As of writing this down I feel way less strongly about it. I do also happen to agree with Gimli that I kinda expected Black's entrance to be more solving oriented, but meh I agree we shouldn't try to do meta reads this game.

[DragonEater70]

UNVOTE:

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Prism

I feel something about her reads is off. Like she's definitely saying TRUE things to back them up, but her conclusions are kinda forced which

might

be scum indicative.

[DragonEater70]

Like saying "dragoneater is acting different to pizza kids! That's scummy!" When there are huge differences to Pizza Kids, including but not limited to: sleep deprivation, being the first one to try and post reads rather than reacting to other people's reads (I feel it's always awkward to make reads first, which is why I avoid doing it as scum tbh), a different playerlist, the game is heavily mech based and people have been talking about mech, not townreads, etc.

[DragonEater70]

There are no votes. We're in Moonrise. I'm also not voting you.

Pretty sure the mods said the dream vote is

in addition

to elimination votes?

[DragonEater70]

Enjoy.

[DragonEater70]

Don't complain later that I am the one seeking to avoid fights

[DragonEater70]

In addition to the elimination, players may begin voting for 3 unique Dreams during the day by sending a PM to the Mods

At least that's how I interpreted it.

[DragonEater70]

Yeah okay that makes sense. Well there goes my Black scumread.

[DragonEater70]

47 and 48: actually having these opinions would be scummy.

I agree actually, I thought Kyoko's townread of Gimli was weird.

[DragonEater70]

No it isn't. Your read was and is trash. Even if you consider yourself to be a Gimli whisperer without fallibility you should think others might question your read, rightfully so.

I actually agree that it's fine to question it, I wrote that mostly as a joke late at night.

[DragonEater70]

ActionDan probs town btw

[DragonEater70]

I feel like I just got scolded by my math teacher for scoring an 80 over the expected 90 on my test. Ngh, time to go back to my corner and watch.

lol I get you. Prism feels very - domineering? arrogant? something of this sort - here. Don't think it has anything to do with her alignment though, it's just playstyle.

Anyway, @Prism: I think you are wrong to dismiss her point. I don't care what you think of my skill level, but I most likely wouldn't have posted 143 as scum unless I thought being extremely self-conscious would get me townread, which I don't think I would think in this game with this PL. And the fact that the post is self-conscious is if anything testimony to me being town, because I posted it DESPITE knowing it looked self-conscious in a scummy way.

[DragonEater70]

(I'm also not calling your counterpoints tedium: it's when I give counters to the counters that things spiral)

Acknowledged.

His 229 is bugging me though, I'm trying to parse what's going on with that Ydrasse read and it feels weird.

Uhhhhh I guess I can see why it's bugging you, but I think it's kind of a town moonlogic rather than a scum moonlogic? And I can see how a person who's scumreading me/Gimli/Kyoko would TR Ydra for it. But on second thought, actually that would presume that Ydra didn't post the "NO TOWNBLOCKS" as a joke. And I thought she did it as a joke. So maybe he's a bit reachy in his townread of her? Meh I'm just going to let AD post more, I think he's rather easy to sort.

[DragonEater70]

i don't think klick is wrong, though? fire informed me what plurality-elims were, and it really doesn't seem all that bad. if this dream is selected, which it probably won't, playing around the "detriments" (isn't a day extension a good thing????) isn't that hard to do.

I never really said he was wrong, the vote was for something else.

[DragonEater70]

I'm finding that I'm townreading the Catgirls for no particular reason.

[DragonEater70]

fireisred are you here to chat?

[DragonEater70]

Seems you were trying to sort me earlier and I don't feel like I understood what conclusion you arrived at, if any. So I'm curious.

Also you said you aren't townreading Prism. Do you have no read on Prism or are you scumreading her?

[DragonEater70]

Cool that makes sense

I think you are probably town (not for this post, mainy for Jupiter's posting tbh, but this post was more or less in line with what I expected from town you).

[DragonEater70]

Idk

[DragonEater70]

Intuition?

[DragonEater70]

Klick has ew reads

Still think he's town though

And in the spirit of making right past wrongs, I am going to sheep him

VOTE: Aureal

(yes, I am aware votes aren't counted)

[DragonEater70]

See that's why your reads are ew

[DragonEater70]

I knew you were scumreading me

[DragonEater70]

I knew you were scumreading me

Yeah it didn't seem very well-disguised which is why I'm going for the upfront backup plan

It's just that I can read your mind Klick, is all. I don't think it would've been particularly obvious to anyone else.

[DragonEater70]

Fair enough
Which one is the most egregious?

The scumread on me and the townread on Von Payne. It's not egregious to TR them in a vacuum but it's egregious to TR them over, say, Catgirls and Gimli.

[DragonEater70]

Btw if I had to rank my reads it would peobably go something like this:

--Gimli tier--
Gimli
--town--
Catgirls
Klick (note: your last few posts brought you above Sunflower but originally you were in the null town tier)
Sunflower
--null town--
Ehhh Idk anymore, maybe Kyoko but not really?
Maybe Aureal but not really?
--null--
Pretty much everyone else
--null scum--
Maaaaaaaaybe Von Payne but not really?
Prism
--

[DragonEater70]

The null town tier + VP are easily collapsable into null. I'm voting Aureal despite the nulltown read because I want to work with Klick on sving the game after we failed last time.

[DragonEater70]

Solving

[DragonEater70]

I don't get why you and Black think I am underestimating Gimli when last game I and Thomith were the ones who saw through him and I was trying to push him as scum.

This is not underestimating. It might be overestimating of my own ability to soulread him. Nevertheless it is a soulread based on A LOT of experience with Gimli.

[DragonEater70]

On Catgirls, I am not seeing anything specific but all their posts feel natural, not forced, and have town vibes

[DragonEater70]

I don't get why you and Black think I am underestimating Gimli when last game I and Thomith were the ones who saw through him and I was trying to push him as scum.

To elaborate on this because it's probably not clear very clear what I am saying here:

If I were to underestimate Gimli as a scum player, then in that game I would have just thought the things he did were towny and wouldn't question them. But the fact that I did question it proves that I am very aware of Gimli's scum capabilities - because he was posting in an extremely towny style and yet I thought it was within his scumrange. Therefore, I AM aware of Gimli's scumrange. I don't think he's "out of his scumrange", I just don't think he's "playing well as scum" this game but rather that he's "playing mediocre as town". Which is also why I think Catgirls' scumread on him is funny - if he were scum, he would have looked a lot more towny and not awkward like they think he is here.

Pedit: I agree I'm bleeding town, which is why I said Klick's reads were pretty ew.

[DragonEater70]

Klick could you explain why did you want to avoid "alarming me", given that you scumread me? What is the value in not alarming me to that?

[DragonEater70]

Gimli, explain Dunn read?

[DragonEater70]

Every time I roll town and am powertowning (like here or in Pizza Kids) I become sad that I didn't roll wolf and made the same super towny posts as wolf instead. Then I remember that I actually suck at playing scum.

But one day I will be able to do that. I promise.

Spoiler: for fireisred's eyes only

You shouldn't TR this though as I did it on purpose

Spoiler:

I am town though

Spoiler:

I hope you get the reference

[DragonEater70]

Gimli, explain Dunn read?

he said I was being disingenuous about

what is meta

and that it was evidence of me being scum

I felt that even if my statements about it were contradictory (not trying to get into it again as I agree with fireisred its a pointless convo to have) they couldn't possibly be alignment indicative (from my standpoint anyway), and that dunn trying to push an apparent contradiction as a scummy thing was an artifice and not a real thought.

I felt similar about black's push on you: she notices you're townreading me when I wrote absolutely nothing worth anything, but overplays it as if she never saw an early soulread before and declares it scummy.

Yeah that's what I was also feeling about Black

Makes sense on Dunn. Gonna reread his posts.

[DragonEater70]

Okay I guess Ravens could join the nullscum pile. Needs more sorting done.

[DragonEater70]

Yeah that's more or less what I assumed and was townreading you for, I just felt the wording was pretty strange.

[DragonEater70]

No need to talk about it though! Tell me about your Aureal scumread.

[DragonEater70]

I actually post less when I'm townread.

[DragonEater70]

Yeah we've ironed it out. Votes don't count until the Day phase begins (and we're currently in the Moonrise phase... which doesn't make sense because I'd expect the moon to rise AFTER the day and before the night, not the other way around. Anyway...)

Black, you town?

[DragonEater70]

Huh? Didn't you say you weren't even sure why you townread Catgirls?

Yes, that's correct. I had said that.

Dragon it feels like you have an unusually large number of townreads. Gimli, Catgirls, AD, Klick, Sunflower. Am I missing any?

I am townreading Gimli, Catgirls, Klick, Sunflower right now, and maybe have a few weaker townleans. Why are you saying it's unusual?

Where did your AD townread go?

I decided it was probably premature so I threw him back into the null bin. It was never on the same level of the reads on Sunflower/Klick though, more of a townlean.

[DragonEater70]

How many games have you played with scum!Gimli?

Wrong question. I've played I think 5 games with him total, he was scum in one. That's quite a bit of experience. I've been able to confidently and easily identify town!Klick after only 2 games with him, for instance. And Klick wasn't even scum in either!

I was also familiar with scum!Gimli's capabilities from before Death Note: Second Page, but I'm not sure from which game exactly. I've read quite a few games I haven't played in.

This is a weird way to interpret my push. If I see a meta read I disagree with I'm going to question it's validity and call it out

My read on Gimli is not (just) a meta read. Even if it was just a meta read and even if it was wrong, that doesn't make me scummy, because town can be wrong. As an example: Klick is scumreading me for terrible reasons right now and he's wrong but that doesn't mean he's not town.

I'm curious what your scumlean on us is based on

Just various odds and ends. I feel like I'm going to write it out and it's gonna be a paragraph long because it's a lot of little things so it's gonna look like a big scumread, but it's not. Please remember that each individual sentence is like a super tiny ping. It's a really weak lean.

Spoiler:

It's very much not a fixed read and I do think there's more than 50% chance (statistically speaking) that it will change later. But currently I am not feeling the same level of belief/conviction in your push that I felt when you pushed me in Mini Normal 2323 for example (and like, it's possible you just don't believe in it as much as in that game, but it's still a factor). And in general not getting any towny vibes from your slot (though I'm not getting scummy vibes either). And also what Gimli said on you not solving out the gate - while it's possible that he was wrong, that still resonated with me and influenced my perception of your slot. And I guess the way you pushed me earlier felt somewhat forced but now it's definitely less so and more investigative so meh.

[DragonEater70]

Dragon why did you ignore 363

~B

I didn't! Just took more time to respond to it.

[DragonEater70]

Yes, that's correct. I had said that.

So you think it's egregious for Klick to townread me over them even though you weren't sure why you even townread them. Seems a bit convoluted but ok

~B

Again, I don't see a lot of reason to townread you right now. I am not seeing a specific thing to townread about them, but I am seeing a lot of general towniness from their direction and I'd expect Klick to pick up on that. Do you have a read on them?

[DragonEater70]

We sent in Slide, Protest/glue, and Sheeple

Slide because Drew said he agrees with Klick that we should get it out of the way early, and the other two we just both liked

~B

If Slide isn't chosen, it can't appear again. So there's no benefit in "getting it out of the way early".

So are we supposed to pm votes or something? Is that what the mod is talking about?

Yep

~B

What should I pm?

Did you decide which dreams to vote for?

[DragonEater70]

My read on Gimli is not (just) a meta read. Even if it was just a meta read and even if it was wrong, that doesn't make me scummy, because town can be wrong. As an example: Klick is scumreading me for terrible reasons right now and he's wrong but that doesn't mean he's not town

What does this first sentence have to do with what I'm saying? Your meta read was the only reason you provided at the time and I didn't agree with it so I called it out

I agree that townies can be wrong but we're in the business of determining if reads are real or not. You being wrong about someone's meta means there's a chance it's a fake read. Does it also mean you could just be a wrong townie? Of course. We play the game to figure these things out

Do you have a read on them?

Nope

~B

Alright

[DragonEater70]

this is wrong and this is scum motivated imo

im looking at maria and klick

and black

Weren't you JUST tring Klick...

Like yeah slide sucks but the good news is, WE DON'T HAVE TO PICK IT. Because the dreamer gets to choose between the three dreams. Or I guess two because scum can discard one.

But anyway, here's a PSA to everyone:

IF YOU DON'T WANT SLIDE TO HAPPEN ON LATER DAYS, JUST DON'T VOTE FOR IT AND IT WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE GAME.

[DragonEater70]

My Dragon read is getting tugged in multiple directions so I'm going to have to leave the jury out on him for now

~B

One way of handling this is to pretend that you locktown him and then cfd at the end of D1.

Didn't you say I was town or something? Weird post.

[DragonEater70]

Okay guys

I know mech can be hard. But If we have a voteless phase, might as well use it. So here's a rundown of how we should be using this phase:

1. We should assume most dreams give a mildly useful invention to a random player. This is based on Miscummer Night's Dream I, where most dreams awarded 1-shot abilities (for example a 1-shot BP, 1-shot vig, etc.). Yes it can give these inventions to scum but assuming they resolve at the beginning of the night phase then if we mislim a townie the inventions have 75% chance to go to town and only 25% to go to scum (for N1, obviously. The percentages change on later days).

2. What utility does "Slide" give? Slide gives the following utility: Assuming there's collective agreement to collapse on someone who'd normally be hammered, it prevents quickhammers on claimed PR (probably not very useful D1 because scum are unlikely to quickhammer a claimed PR on Day 1 since that's a bad trade). I guess it adds 3 days to the deadline which means more discussion time, but IMO that's neutral or even NEGATIVE utility (explained in the bottom of the post becuase it's subjective and not objective).

Now, if you want to avoid Slide happening later and fucking things up, what should you do? Simple! Don't vote for it and the mods will REMOVE IT FROM THE POOL. Ideally we should aim for an invention or some sort of info drop or NK prevention if that exists.

Also, if we are not happy with the top pick, it's FINE because it gets revealed and we can always pick another option. That's what the dreamer is for.

In conclusion

: If you prefer quickhammer protection (extremely niche) and 3 extra days of discussion to a 75% chance to get something like a vig/BP, or even a neighborhood, vote slide. If you prefer neighborhood or 1-shot ability, vote anything but Slide.


Why is more days negative utility? Because longer deadlines make towns apathetic and give scum more elbow room to do their stuff (scum is being wagoned 2 days to deadline - plausibly gets hammered. Scum gets wagoned 5 days to deadline - scummates say "there's so much time, don't hammer yet!!!" and then a counterwagon forms or something because people get bored of the wagon).

[DragonEater70]

DE is locktown and haters are gonna deal with it

Curious what prompted this btw

[DragonEater70]

I am reading your posts. I dislike Slide. I just wrote an anti-Slide wallpost.

Are you towning me for being a Slide hater? Because if that's the case that wasn't very clear.

[DragonEater70]

"I lost my job and had to go back to my first job: Pizza Delivery."

btw my bet on this is that it was a Mailman invention.

[DragonEater70]

I'm not worrying, I'm just curious.

[DragonEater70]

No. I trust you. Which should I do

Dream 1, Dream 3, Dream 6.

[DragonEater70]

despite my burning desire for the slide i did not vote for the slide. you can thank me.

Thank you!

[DragonEater70]

I'm also the only person that's blatantly advocating pro-slide so like where is this idea that a pro-slide movement is being suggested by wolves even coming from

I'm kinda confused by that as well

[DragonEater70]

Hi Ms. Wolf. How are you today?

Like I get the argument for having a neutral dream available, but also we're going to have another dream revealed anyway by the mechanics of the game and if it's good or neutral we can pick it and if it's bad we can not pick it. I do think dreams will be by average good rather than bad just going by the last iteration of the game.

[DragonEater70]

I don't think Alisae is this adamant about going anti-concensus as scum. IDK.

[DragonEater70]

I mean yeah she can do it but I don't see a benefit for her to do it as scum here.

[DragonEater70]

And I don't even want to think about DE and whatever he's doing right now

Hey, what? I am not doing anything! Like literally nothing. All I've done today was a small fight with Klick and then just answering Black's questions to me and posting a bit of mech. How could that POSSIBLY rub you the wrong way???

[DragonEater70]

Unless you mean my vote on you which like

Sorry, but it's not even a real vote?

[DragonEater70]

Why does anyone think a car seat is protective? I'm kinda confused by that

[DragonEater70]

Ohhhhhhhh

I was thinking like, just a seat. Like the driver's seat.

[DragonEater70]

See that's where having English as a first language could be useful.

[DragonEater70]

dragon, whatre you voting for?

Go check page 2. Alternatively go check what I answered Hu Tao when she asked me a page ago.

[DragonEater70]

Kinda thinking it could be a BP then. I'm changing my vote to car seat over sheeple. Even though I would love to caat polymorph on the scum and render them unable to attack.

[DragonEater70]

See that's where having English as a first language could be useful.

whats your first language?

Ask Black! She knows.

Or just look in my GTKAS, it's splattered all over the first page.

Or I guess I could tell you myself but where's the fun in that.

I'll tell you if the other two methods don't succeed.

[DragonEater70]

See that's where having English as a first language could be useful.

whats your first language?

Ask Black! She knows.

Or just look in my GTKAS, it's splattered all over the first page.

Or I guess I could tell you myself but where's the fun in that.

I'll tell you if the other two methods don't succeed.

ooo is it hebrew

Yes!

[DragonEater70]

Okay Gimli can ypu please go back to townreading Klick now that we know he's not voting Slide?

[DragonEater70]

Yes!

yayy

Good job buddy

(I almost said little buddy. Would that be insulting if I said little buddy?)

[DragonEater70]

Yes!

yayy

Good job buddy

(I almost said little buddy. Would that be insulting if I said little buddy?)

no, to me it's like playing undertale and being called "child" - fairly true and pretty amusing.
that being said how tall are you

I'm pretty sure I'm shorter than you (not going to give my actual height)

But anyway I was referring to age, little buddy.

[DragonEater70]

Okay Gimli can ypu please go back to townreading Klick now that we know he's not voting Slide?

okay

is the verdict on aureal that she is scum?

I have no verdict on Aureal

I'm kinda waiting for the day phase to start and then I am just gonna sheep my townreads onto wagons and try to read into people's reactions to these wagons.

Aureal may be able to like super dissuade me from joining her wagon in certain circumstances which I won't discuss to not give scum!her ideas if she's scum.

[DragonEater70]

Wow I promised to not talk about Klick's scumread of me and let him cook but tbh I'm annoyed that Klick is working together with Gimli who has townlocked me while still scumreading me. Like it just doesn't sit right. Both socially I'm kinda feeling as if someone is making me third wheel by stealing my bestie (idk if anyone is going to understand this but have you ever felt third wheel to your bestie + some random acquaintance which your bestie likes or something? This is it), but also if Klick feels Gimli is someone to work with then he should be concerned with Gimli's read on me because that's something that's central to his reads this game, and ignoring it is weird from a perspective of "town wants to have correct reads and wants other town to also have correct reads". Also I'm annoyed because Klick ostensibly thinks I am scummy (or at least wrong) for townreading Gimli and yet he townreads him?

But I am NOT asking Klick to talk about his read of me because I KNOW that Klick, being a good enough town player, will end up TRing me. If he doesn't TR me by the end of Day 2 I guess we can yeet him for being scum with bad reads. So for now I will just post this one time complaint and then just act as if I am already being townread by Klick and continue working with him and Gimli to solve the game. I mean that townread is inevitable either way.

Also Prism, you are WELCOME for this self-conscious, scummy, unproductive post. Feel FREE to attack it. Nobody else is allowed to attack it though because all the rest should know better than to think I post this as scum.

[DragonEater70]

I'm pretty sure I'm shorter than you (not going to give my actual height)

But anyway I was referring to age, little buddy.

its ok if you're shorter than me
now i have to come up with an age-related nickname for you an dits not gonna be old geezer

What's the nickname?

[DragonEater70]

Actually I apologize for post 530

It kinda sucks

[DragonEater70]

Unless you mean my vote on you which like

Sorry, but it's not even a real vote?

*deep breaths*

Okay, so if it's not a real vote

what do you possibly hope to gain

with this course of action? Other than tipping me into frustration for reasons I thought would be obvious to you by now, but once again I underestimate your capacity to just latch onto something and do it with no concern for the consequences. Here you are, knowing that I hate being expected to somehow have much in the way of reads I can explain early in the game; and not only have you not even mentioned it but are actively encouraging the dynamic of scumreading me for it. If you were anyone else I'd be calling you scum opportunistically forgetting what you know about me; but sadly I think this is well within your townrange. >_<

So

In the nicest way possible

I am not latching onto anything. You are either misunderstanding or misrepresenting the situation by saying that I am "opportunistically forgetting" about you, because I am not scumreading you, nor am I trying to push you. I have you as null town. It's in my readlist that came

after

the meaningless vote. That vote is there solely and only as a gesture of friendship to Klick, who is scumreading you and who I think has super bad reads (I also said that!). So you should realize that I am in no way repeating ast mistakes here, I am just enjoying the fact that this phase is kidna meaningless votes-wise and also trying to get on Klick's good side.

[DragonEater70]

is dragon known to be this entitled. is this town behavior

Yes

[DragonEater70]

And also, Aureal

Even if I were scumreading you, which I am not, I wouldn't be scumreading you for a lack of reads. And at this point I feel like you just decided that I am gonna be annoying to younnd misreading you and it's kinda unfair to me.

[DragonEater70]

this is
yeah i think this is town dragon

- jupiter

Have you even read any of my games?

[DragonEater70]

is dragon known to be this entitled. is this town behavior

Yes

But I also apologized for that post

[DragonEater70]

this page is definitely interesting

Honestly it's probably the most embarrassing moment in my history on this site.

I am deeply sorry for my behavior here. PLEASE forget about it.

[DragonEater70]

Goid job Alisae

[DragonEater70]

I am definitely going to be limiting my posting. Thank you for caring about it Catgirls, that's very considerate of you.

As I'd said earlier, I don't really have any serious scumreads. I'd be willing to vote anyone whose username is not Klick/Gimli/Sunflower/Catgirl Chipotle. However I guess I do have SOME preferences:

1. Let's not vote Aureal Day 1 because she's likelier town than not and if she's town she's going to have more reads later, at which point she'll be easier to read and also pretty useful for finding scum. Also I am doing this to prove Aureal I don't have a deep burning desire to annoy her like she might think I have :p

2. My nullscums are currently Prism and Ravens. Prism for her approach to the game which uses a lot of true evidence to explain a read that doesn't really correlate to that evidence while ignoring evidence that points otherwise; Ravens because of their exchange with Gimli where they called Gimli disingenuous for using contradictory definitions of meta or something. I'll note that after my exchange with Black, she went back to true null over null scum. I could wagon one of these but my confidence in either of them being scum is not veey high at all.

3. My true nulls are Hu Tao, Ydrasse, Von Payne, ActionDan, and Kyoko. I wouldn't be surprised if 2 of them were scum, maybe even three. I would like to try and wagon here today (at the stage where content is still allowed) as a way to sort them. I also wouldn't mind a lim going through on them I guess.


I would also like to issue a warning to everyone: this game most likely has PRs (there was a mason duo amd two minor TPRs in the last game). PLEASE make sure that once content posts run out, you do not post anything. Because if you are a PR and get to E-1, you will need a content post to claim your role.

Also, I would like to suggest that voting no elim and then immediately unvoting should be used as a sign meaning "intent to hammer".

VOTE: Hu Tao

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: ActionDan

[DragonEater70]

Okays so my posts are gonna be divided, for organization's sake, such that at the the top of the post will be general notes/comments that are probably relevant to everyone, followed by game-advancing responses to other players / game-advancing observations about other players, followed by really unimportant stuff in small red text which I encourage you not to read if you have a limited amount of time.

First, I would like to try to get a wagon to E-1

before

we reach 50 content posts so that in case of a PR claim, there's plenty of posts for a possible counterclaim, etc.

Second, let's try to keep it to 7 content posts for each player slot please. I will policy vote anyone who makes more than 12 content posts (cause you are literally stealing posts from other players).

Third, please consider me as preemptively giving intent to hammer on any slot except the following: [Gimli, Sunflower, Catgirl Chipotle, Klick, Aureal]. This is so I don't have to waste content posts for intent to hammer. I encourage you all to compose similar lists.


Now, for game advancing stuff:

I disagree with you fire that Hu Tao's ignorance of the setup/mech, or the fact that she's confused, is unusual. In this game she wasn't even aware it was multiball until like very late in Day 1, even though it was announced in signups. In other games she had similar setup dumbtells. I don't think it's even slightly readable as alignment indicative for her. I will say though that her insistence on asking for the "name of the VT role" is quite weird since she'd have no use for it as a TPR and wouldn't need to ask for it as a VT. Not really sure what to make of it. I have a very slight suspicion she was trying to bait people into slipping that they are VT / not VT but IDK if that's realistic. Overall null on her.

Regarding ActionDan I do find your case quite convincing and it reminded me a bit of the game I had with him as scum, so yeah I'd like to lim there.


@Prism - You are right, I guess I did somewhat overexplain why I'm playing differently instead of just saying "well it's a different game so I'm playing differently". I could see why that'd ping you. Why did I react differently is not something I can explain, I guess i just felt like overexplaining it... But also I thought it'd be taken for granted that I play differently every game, so why even mention it? Like have a look at these two town games and tell me that their Day 1's are any similar to Pizza Kids' (they're not): viewtopic.php?t=92058 viewtopic.php?t=91754
Regarding your other point, not really sure what you mean by emulate the basics. I didn't give anyone early pressure because in Pizza Kids I had a very strong scumread on one specific slot and in here I had a very strong townread on a specific slot. So I mirrored that but there's only so much you can "pressure" with a townread. I didn't and still don't have a very strong scumread so I am simply unable to push one with the same ferocity as in Pizza Kids, cause I don't have one.
But understanding your thought process is making me scumread you less I guess.

I kinda agree with you that the tone of Aureal's posts is... IDK. Like I do feel it's a reaction I'd expect from Aureal to have, but at the same time it doesn't really fit the context of what I was actually doing and I can see a world where Aureal, as scum, decided to post AtE because she knows I'm weak to her AtE when she's town and wanted to pocket me. I still, on balance, prefer not to lim her Day 1. Especially because I'm weak to AtE, sadly (or fortunately, depending on your perspective).


@Ravens - I thought Prism was ignoring things such as the fact that I am confident in my reads, etc. But as she has now addressed this, I do not think she's ignoring evidence anymore. Regarding you, IDK seems like you were reaching in order to SR Gimli. And I also didn't really feel like any of your posting has substantially contributed to or advanced the game very much so far. No offense meant, but like all of I remember of your slot is a bunch of witty one liners without actual insight. Maybe I'm misremembering.


@Klick - are you voting Prism, my scumreader, over me? Curious.


Now for some idle non-game advancing stuff:
Catgirl, why are you saying that Aureal of all people should restrict her posting? She's a low poster already...

Jupiter, I personally forgive you for that pagetop post.

[DragonEater70]

Ydrasse I'm gonna steal one of your posts to say some random stuff hope you aren't mad (if you are then I'll return it):

Wow I missed wallposting but also kinda didn't. I hope to never make a post this long again unless it's a scumcase on implosion or something.

Also Prism an additional detail regarding your scumread on me: you're unsatisfied with me not pressuring people early but A. I didn't see anything that I'm like, actually really scumreading this game so I don't have anything to pressure, and B. It's kinda useless to try pressure people during Moonrise phase since votes were useless (yes I was unaware of it but I was aware that people weren't voting). But also idk what you call my vote on Klick if not "touches of pressure" (what you claimed I was misisng). And yeah by the time you first brought up this argument, there weren't many of these because I was focusing on other stuff (mech and forming a townblock), but later they did happen and you elected to ignore them or disagree with them (and then ignore them as evidence). So I actually revoke understanding your thought process until such time that you acknowledge this inconsistency or address it satisfactorily. That being said I will gladky continue to pressure you and others to prove a point even though I don't have strong scunreads on you. Okay bye hope you enjoyed your weekend btw.

Hu Tao why the hell would you ever vote Sunflower. Like whaaaat. They are super town. But please like don't spend a post on a one sentence answer. Either give a detailed answer or just don't say anything and I'll assume it's because of the scumread of you.

Also if anybody wondering why I soend so much effort responding to Prism it's cause I don't have anything better to interact with, literally most of high posters I townread so I am expecting scum to be in low posrers and there's only so much to say about low posters.

Post 27/100

Pedit: I love Gimli's analysis and if I want to sy that Gimli is locktown once again. Especialky the real time thing ia very true. Oh no is this becoming abother wallpost, it was supposed to be a short one. Anyway, nice catch on Aureal Gimli.

I get why you dislike 102 and I get the mindset that voting for that dream is scummy but I don't want to vote Catgirls today. Need more non-mech posts from them.

Actually post 28/100

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Catgirls

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: ActionDan

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Prism

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[DragonEater70]

Again I implore all of you to consolidate on a wagon, and reiterate that ideally we get someone to E-1 before 50 posts are up. My vote on Prism was more supposed to be a sign of protest against her vote on Sunflower rather than a legitimate attempt at a wagon but I'm now going to consolidate on either Hu Tao or ActionDan. Like I'll just vote whichever gets more votes.



Hu Tao if you are going to play the "I have no idea what's happening this game but Dragon is my only townread" game, then you should at the very least realize that Gimli is completely off the table today and we ain't voting him no matter what. I do think you're reading way too much into that thingy with the unvotes especially because I think everyone assumed unvotes wouldn't count (including myself, I even suggested using no elim > unvote as a signal), and this only got clarified after I PM'd the mods about this because I realized oer the wording of the rules it would actually count. Also I get you're not used to writing long posts but I am sure you can explain your scumread on Sunflower for instance (which btw are also off the table unless you make an amazing case for them. While Gimli is off the table regardless of how amazing your case is).

Regarding Aureal, like okay I think her last post nudged the needle from "null town but sus" to "less-null town but still sus". I really have no idea what she thinks a pressure vote on Ydrasse is gonna achieve. Actually while writing this I realized it's extremely weird for her to do that when every time she gets oressure voted she complains so maybe I should actually untownread her. Oh my god I hate scumreading Aureal, it's not good for my mental health. Like last game she was just okay with being scumread and here she's not and I have no idea what changed unless it's that she's town this game and wasn't annoyed for getting last game cause she was scum. But on the other hand her actions don't make sense. So yeah I'm just going to let someone cop her. Maybe myself because I may or may not be an investigation role. Hmmmmmm. Anyway yeah I'm not down for voting her today if only because I value my own sanity.

ActionDan it would be really grand if you expressed some reads because iirc the last time you expressed any read whatsoever was over 400 posts ago? At least over 300 posts ago for sure.

I don't think I've posted since Kyoko's big post, so yeah I really liked it and on rereading of Kyoko's ISO I'm comfortable calling her town. Possibly for bad reasons though now that I remember the game I played where she was scum. Eh not going to revisit that right now. I think she just town. I do think that as scum she'd put more effort in to look like she has confident reads rather than the pretty unconfident reads she seems to have.

Do I have anything else to say? Inb4 I press submit and immediately remember a bunch of other stuff I wanna say. Hold on a minute while I browse the last page... Okay yeah I do have something. I kinda get why people don't like Gimli's post last page, I also didn't really like parts of it, but in my experience the things that I and other people didn't like aren't actually alignment indicative for Gimli? I can't really elaborate on it but I just think that as town Gimli sometimes has pretty meh thoughts that you don't like. Maybe because he doesn't filter his thoughts to look good, idk. Not saying all his thoughts are like that because I mentioned I did like other thoughts of his from that post. Anyway to all his scumreaders I'd say what you are scumreading in that post is either NAI or town-indicative.

Oh and I would like to hear thoughts from Klick. If he has a spicy scumread I might sheep him.

I'm sad nobody paid attention to me saying "yeah I'm not voting Catgirls this phase" followed immediately by a vote on Catgirls. I personally found it funny. No it wasn't intentionally counterintuitive, I just changed my mind right after pressing submit. But anyway right now I'm pretty undecided about them, idk.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: ActionDan

[DragonEater70]

Wtf ActionDan

Can you just like, post???? But you know, with words??

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Aureal

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: ActionDan

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Prism

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[DragonEater70]

I disagree heavily with the assessment that people voting HT and AD makes them town. If anything the votes on them make them scum because except for Black most of their voters are my townreads.

Like, I do get where this is coming from but I feel this is extremely surface level analysis. Let's take a hypothetical world where the scumteam is ActionDan/Prism/Von Payne (that's just an example). In this world Prism and VP haven't been eager at all to vote AD and the people who piled on AD were just town. Or let's take another hypothetical scumteam of Hu Tao/Prism/Aureal (and this is again just an example, it could be ActionDan or Ydrasse or even Silver Ravens instead of Prism for instance). Again, neither scum partner jumped on Hu Tao. Prism/Aureal tried to push alt wagons. Or alternatively Silver Ravens tried to create a feeling of people piling on Hu Tao but voting her and immediately unvoting. None of this comes close to clearing for either Hu Tao or ActionDan. Now the question is do I scumread ActionDan? And well I'll get to this later because I have some other things I wanna touch first.

The townblock I currently want to work with is Gimli/Klick/Kyoko/DE. It definitely feels very pure to me. If the other three can townread each other then we'd be all set. Right now I'm mostly sheeping Kyoko on Hu Tao but would be willing to switch to Aureal or Prism (Gimli and Klick's scumreads apparently) if Hu Tao doesn't regain traction.

Sunflower and Catgirl Chipotle are both townreads I would like to revisit, but I don't I don't have the time and the brainpower to do that right now since my real life is kinda all over the place. I probably could do it on Saturday at the earliest, maybe even as late as Monday. If we run out of content posts by then I'll just revisit them for myself and if I end up scumreading them then I guess I could maybe just vote them at that point. But yeah right now I think they are town and tbh I'd rather just not wagon them Day 1 and instead look at them on later days based on flips. I definitely don't think it's likely that they're both scum right now.



Gimli: regarding your last post of why vote Aureal compared to Hu Tao - I don't think what Hu Tao has been doing today is "totally reasonable". I have seen her self vote as town, I have seen her be ignorant of setup as town, but I have not seen her go "oh wow I'm completely lost so I will just sheep ____" as town as she's done here and I've not seen her go "welp I'm a liability just lim me" either. So this could definitely be scum. It could definitely be town too, but the thing is that none of this is town indicative for Hu Tao since she dumbtells as scum as much as she does when she's town. With Aureal I don't consider myself as someone who's like very good at reading her. I'm guessing you decided I was good at reading her because of her AtE about my scumread of her? Well it's more based on other things. Like cause she thinks I've repeatedly incorrectly scumread her and I should know better than to do that again this game. Still, you are correct that I've found myself not really townreading her, BUT just as with Sunflower and Catgirls I would like to not lim her today (but am willing to switch to her as I said before). Yes this does mean that if your solve this page is exactly correct then I'd be putting off all scum lims until tomorrow but tbh I think there's at most 2 scum in that solve. If I'm wrong I'm sure we can read them Day 2 and figure it out.


Klick-

Right this second I also think Dragon's grasp and understanding of the setup looks decently towny. But I'm going to be stubborn and not let him leave null until I'm very confident ):<

Why is understanding of setup towny? I literally read up about the game before it even started signups so my understanding of it has no bearing on my alignment. Unless you mean the way I've been talking and thinking about it, which I'm not convinced this is what you meant. Elaborate please.

581 finally has me convinced that Dragon is town fwiw. I particularly buy into the worldview presented in point 3 with who his true nulls are and how he feels about them. This just feels like how Dragon is actually viewing the game.

TOWN

DragonEater70
Kyoko Kirigiri
Sunflower
Von Payne

What? You've moved me from null to top townread just because I understand the setup and have said something about who're my null reads (which btw several of them are consensus nulls). Can you explain where the high level of confidence on my alignment is coming from? (yes, I'm simultaneously including you in my town core and questioning you. I think you are very towny but this take feels ridiculous. Sue me).

Hmm I didn't really give AD's post a lot of attention yet. But it's also 1 AM and I've been sleeping at 3 AM the last two nights so maybe tonight I'll try to sleep "early". lol. Anyway on a very surface read AD's post is meh. The explanation of the self vote makes him go up from really scummy to roundabout null again, the things about hating my play aren't the most contrived reads I've ever seen but I do think they're fakable. Alright bye I'm going to sleep now and then look at this more in detail tomorrow.


This is post 64/100 btw. Since we missed doing it at 50 can we at least try to E-1 someone before 75? I really really don't want someone to be E-1'd after 100 posts and then claim and then we can't even discuss the claim.

[DragonEater70]

I don't think Hu Tao was a bad flip. If she'd been left alive we would still want to lim her on later days. I do think we can get useful VCA from her flip. (I haven't read most twilight).

Also, I agree with Prism that it was obvious if she were town she were a VT. Still she was never getting out of the PoE for me and right now my gameplan is to have 6 locktowns on Day 2 and kill the rest so I don't mind her lim.

[DragonEater70]

Kinda feeling Sunflower and Von Payne are scum by VCA.

[DragonEater70]

Haven't put a lot of thought into it yet but that's what my gut says.

[DragonEater70]

Virtually none, haven't gone indepth on Aureal. Klick is unimpressive this game, virtually every read I've disagreed with.

It's really weird because I agree with you about disagreeing about Klick's every read. I have no fucking clue why he's town reading me all of a sudden.

There's a world where Prism is town and Klick is scum huh

[DragonEater70]

Like
His scumread of me was bad
But his townread of me is even worse??? He's townreading me for extremely stupid reasons, and it's possible he's just scum and decided to townread me because I'm a vocal voice this game and he knows doing it will get him TR'd by Gimli.

[DragonEater70]

Lol this reaction by Sunflower is so towny

[DragonEater70]

Damn am I going to have to tryhard this game

That's so sad

[DragonEater70]

Lol this reaction by Sunflower is so towny

I might expect too much but this expects too little.

Perhaps

I felt the "speak your truth" came from town but like idk maybe it can come from scum as well

[DragonEater70]

Thought you were referring to fire's. I don't know Jupiter so maybe.

Nah fire's post was retty neutral

[DragonEater70]

It's gonna be funny if Prism ends up being a townread of mine

But also kinda scary because I would have no idea in that scenario where to look for scum

[DragonEater70]

It's gonna be funny if Prism ends up being a townread of mine

But also kinda scary because I would have no idea in that scenario where to look for scum

why do you think gimli is town besides that he pocketed you which as we all know is very unlike scum gimli

Because of the way he pocketed me, duh

[DragonEater70]

I think Gimli actually explained it best

It was a real time interaction that you kinda only got by being in the thread as it happened. But what I was seeing was Gimli forcing a TR on Kyoko as a way to get out of RVS and then trying to work WITH her to solve me in a way I just know is exactly how town Gimli works and is not exactly how scum Gimli works. Scum Gimli would have just said "lol Dragon is towny" or something similar.

[DragonEater70]

Why did thread lock and unlock though

[DragonEater70]

most of our conversation has not been about the game lol

I 100% believe that

[DragonEater70]

Additionally his locktown on me felt like a certified town Gimli locktown. And this is despite the fact that it looks like there's no reasoning behind it. Cause Gimli and I are kinda similar in the fact that we can have a locktown super early from veey weak reasoning.

[DragonEater70]

I think Gimli actually explained it best

It was a real time interaction that you kinda only got by being in the thread as it happened. But what I was seeing was Gimli forcing a TR on Kyoko as a way to get out of RVS and then trying to work WITH her to solve me in a way I just know is exactly how town Gimli works and is not exactly how scum Gimli works. Scum Gimli would have just said "lol Dragon is towny" or something similar.

you're wrong. reconsider.

Wtf? You sound like Prism or Dannflor or something

[DragonEater70]

Explain this post please

[DragonEater70]

And why you're scumreading Gimli

[DragonEater70]

Look the thing is right now Gimli's game is 100% identical to his town game. ONE HUNDRED percent, not ninety nine percent. In both Gimli scum games I read/played, he was incredibly towny but there were clear differences in play to his towngame. If you wanna convince me he's not town it's not gonna be through "your reasoning sucks" but through pointing out actually scummy things he did this game.

[DragonEater70]

i just wanted to try saying that to see how it felt ngl

feels kinda icky i don't like it

Okay missed this

Yes it feels extremely icky

[DragonEater70]

Explain this post please

i literally did explain it 2 posts later lol, i was referencing the post prism made to me earlier

i am fairly confident on gimli though and i think that the way you're viewing him is frustratingly narrow. especially to say "scum gimli wouldn't do this" is just... that part is wrong. imo

Sucks to suck

[DragonEater70]

If you wanna convince me he's not town it's not gonna be through "your reasoning sucks" but through pointing out actually scummy things he did this game.

[DragonEater70]

my role activated when i was visited for the first time by mafia
i guess i should have had an innocent on you because you neighborized me or whatever and it didn't immediately trigger when i was added but i didn't interpret it like that at all
i guess it's my fault for not asking about how night action resolution happened but it made sense to me that if i was targeted it would be announced after the night ended and not like. at the start of a night.

TBH the mods said in the dead thread that it was a clear but I don't think I'd interpret it as a clear either because isn't the neighborizer a day action?

[DragonEater70]

Thanks for modding, Morph! What a crazy and epic game this was.

My only regret this game was letting Aureal's AtE convince me to cop her instead of Von Payne. But it's the kind of mistake you can only know is a mistake after the fact, I think.

[DragonEater70]

Sunflower, you played really well (both heads!). Well done on bringing the win home!

[DragonEater70]

Post-Death PTs
(if you had a personal notes PT that became your Post-Death notes, we won't make it public without your permission.

Permission granted.

[DragonEater70]

/prein for that one whenever it comes around