Open 906: AAAAAAHHHH I Ran out of Game Names!!! [Game Over]

[JacksonVirgo]

AAAAAAHHHH! I ran out of ideas for my entrance!

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Jackson, you sly devil, I shall not let you get away with being mafia again!

There’s no traitor in this game dw

[JacksonVirgo]

Unfortunately there's no SK either

You can’t stab my traitor ass this time >:)

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

my horrorscope told me to watch out for virgos.

(also hi i'm new)

Wow literally discrimination how dare you, get her banned!!!!!1!!!

Also welcome

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: black

I don't like people who named after colors

Also hi!!

Counter offer: we form a color alliance instead

If I gaslight you enough that Virgo is actually a colour can I join

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

my horrorscope told me to watch out for virgos.

(also hi i'm new)

Astrology lost me my last game but I’ll welcome it here since it seems pretty good at catching scum lol

Ah fuck, you caught me. I’m literally always scum cuz I’m a virgo. It can’t escape me

[JacksonVirgo]

gamers do yall think jake voting purple is scum-motivated or not

The comment before the vote makes it seem like an excuse for jumping on a bus (that was only 2 votes at the time, so not even a bus)

Bad answer
VOTE: KayJayQueue

The correct answer is:
3rd vote scum theorem

Ah yes, you ask a loaded question/trap and when somebody doesn’t answer the specific way you wanted (which was an incredibly stupid answer btw for many reasons) you vote.

[JacksonVirgo]

Hi

[JacksonVirgo]

Omg it's Jackson's Vertigo!

My name is Hotel Trivirgo. This is the last time I’m warning you

[JacksonVirgo]

How is that due to the words of someone else?

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh, take out like the loaded question bit. Whoops, point stands it’s a bad post

[JacksonVirgo]

You could have explicitly said that now I feel silly

[JacksonVirgo]

what’s third vote scum theorem btw

The theory that the third vote on a wagon is likely scum.

[JacksonVirgo]

it means post or eliminate
basically if you are in the POE and you do not post then you will be eliminated
it is a strategy against scum who intentionally post very infrequently to not attract attention (i.e. coasters)

Process of elimination is the most common use for it here

[JacksonVirgo]

I have never seen anybody use it the way you just
described it

[JacksonVirgo]

it means post or eliminate
basically if you are in the POE and you do not post then you will be eliminated
it is a strategy against scum who intentionally post very infrequently to not attract attention (i.e. coasters)

Process of elimination is the most common use for it here

Omg I forgot you were in this game lol I’ve been awake way too long


(See I can’t even post correctly)

I haven’t posted nearly as many gifs as I usually do so I don’t blame you :p

[JacksonVirgo]

I fix

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: halfasleep

I’ll explain more in depth later, I’m working. I know they’re not me but their actions are reminding me of my own tells as a wolf. Elaboration coming soon

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: halfasleep

I’ll explain more in depth later, I’m working. I know they’re not me but their actions are reminding me of my own tells as a wolf. Elaboration coming soon

Definitely curious about this

You just wanna know my tells >:C

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: halfasleep

I’ll explain more in depth later, I’m working. I know they’re not me but their actions are reminding me of my own tells as a wolf. Elaboration coming soon

SAME BRAIN
VOTE: halfasleep

Can you elaborate before I do, I don’t want my reads hijacked

[JacksonVirgo]

Sad. I think Jups logic is wrong but I love the spirit. My thing with halfasleep is that that they post a bunch of reasoning, formatted and everything and when questioned about it further they then use their experience as a sort of buffer. They didn’t seem too worried about it before then. I can expand further but I’m walking as I type and don’t wanna smack into someone

[JacksonVirgo]

I don’t think that behaviour is consistent

[JacksonVirgo]

Meta meta meta meta


I’m so over meta.

Meta is overrated and most people do it wrong anyway so I just ignore

[JacksonVirgo]

also FINALLY a place wheree people understand me when i say "meta bad"

[JacksonVirgo]

Jake wagon is silly

[JacksonVirgo]

I wanted to say something controversial so I get heat on me, I need motivation

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m indifferent to it

[JacksonVirgo]

I do think I was wrong on halfasleep

[JacksonVirgo]

Actually I take that back

[JacksonVirgo]

Their jump onto Jake looks awful

[JacksonVirgo]

Actually is it awful?

[JacksonVirgo]

I wanna think on that

[JacksonVirgo]

Jake wagon is silly

Is this because I used the word silly in our last game to describe what I thought (correctly) was an TvT argument and immediately people jumped down my throat? Because if so, good plan lol

Mhm, I am definitely appealing to you in particular

[JacksonVirgo]

Jake wagon is silly

Is this because I used the word silly in our last game to describe what I thought (correctly) was an TvT argument and immediately people jumped down my throat? Because if so, good plan lol

Mhm, I am definitely appealing to you in particular

I see you getting your pocket ready for me, that’s so sweet of you lol

Hop right on it, it’s super cozy in there

[JacksonVirgo]

:c

[JacksonVirgo]

[JacksonVirgo]

- nothing he's done really feels like it's motivated by solving the game in a genuine way

- he reminds me a lot of the game i just played where he was scum, particularly in how he is approaching the game, what he's choosing to focus on, and how his reads develop

- this section of reactions feels manufactured and i dont believe that they come from a town mindset. they also feel likely to be partnered

Spoiler:

Jake wagon is silly

I wanted to say something controversial so I get heat on me, I need motivation

I’m indifferent to it

I do think I was wrong on halfasleep

Actually I take that back

Their jump onto Jake looks awful

Actually is it awful?

I wanna think on that

What would you consider a genuine way to solve?

That meta read is simply wrong, not saying it’s wrong because I’m town (even though I am) but wrong because it’s reading into who I am more than my alignment. I can have really enthusiastic games (most of my wolf games), I can have less of that (this game and that one) but once again proving meta is stupid as you don’t have the total picture. Anybody who has played with me as a wolf outside of that one game with hellbooks, yourself and I would know that it’s not my scum tell to any degree.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Who wants to ride the Jackson train? Now that Fire mentions it, this play reminds me of the last time I played with him.

Excuse me? The traitor game?

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Who wants to ride the Jackson train? Now that Fire mentions it, this play reminds me of the last time I played with him.

Excuse me? The traitor game?

Yeah, that one. This game reminds me of it.

How in the fuck?

[JacksonVirgo]

Elaborate on it in general, that’s an insane thing to say considering what I was doing that game.

[JacksonVirgo]

- nothing he's done really feels like it's motivated by solving the game in a genuine way

- he reminds me a lot of the game i just played where he was scum, particularly in how he is approaching the game, what he's choosing to focus on, and how his reads develop

- this section of reactions feels manufactured and i dont believe that they come from a town mindset. they also feel likely to be partnered

Spoiler:

Jake wagon is silly

I wanted to say something controversial so I get heat on me, I need motivation

I’m indifferent to it

I do think I was wrong on halfasleep

Actually I take that back

Their jump onto Jake looks awful

Actually is it awful?

I wanna think on that

What would you consider a genuine way to solve?

That meta read is simply wrong, not saying it’s wrong because I’m town (even though I am) but wrong because it’s reading into who I am more than my alignment. I can have really enthusiastic games (most of my wolf games), I can have less of that (this game and that one) but once again proving meta is stupid as you don’t have the total picture. Anybody who has played with me as a wolf outside of that one game with hellbooks, yourself and I would know that it’s not my scum tell to any degree.

i delineated specific factors to make it clear that it wasn't about who you are or personality-based

i don't think the lack of enthusiasm or engagement is a meta scumtell

Elaborate on it then. What part of my meta are you linking here.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: halfasleep

I’ll explain more in depth later, I’m working. I know they’re not me but their actions are reminding me of my own tells as a wolf.

Elaboration coming soon

Sad. I think Jups logic is wrong but I love the spirit. My thing with halfasleep is that that they post a bunch of reasoning, formatted and everything and when questioned about it further they then use their experience as a sort of buffer. They didn’t seem too worried about it before then.

I can expand further but

I’m walking as I type and don’t wanna smack into someone

I wanna think on that

i accept that you probably are busy irl but this sorta seems you consistently avoiding more substansive contributions with promises and can-kicking. i'm concerned because it's doing a good job of influencing me to not bother thinking about you until you come back with whatever you're going to come back with. i don't like that feeling.

I’m not avoiding anything, I’m just not doing it when I’m not able.

[JacksonVirgo]

Elaborate on it in general, that’s an insane thing to say considering what I was doing that game.

The main thing I'm comparing are the long, pseudosocratic monolouges that ultimately led nowhere.

I got no idea what that means

[JacksonVirgo]

Elaborate on it in general, that’s an insane thing to say considering what I was doing that game.

The main thing I'm comparing are the long, pseudosocratic monolouges that ultimately led nowhere.

I got no idea what that means

A socratic dialouge is a constructed conversation between two people as a method of conveying some point or arguing some point.

A pseudosocraric monolouge, by contrast, would be a monolouge from one person as a method of fallaciously arguing some point, or giving the appearance of making a point.

I wasn’t making a point? I was thinking

[JacksonVirgo]

Elaborate on it then. What part of my meta are you linking here.

particularly in how he is approaching the game, what he's choosing to focus on, and how his reads develop

i think the coming in swinging at a highposter counter to thread flow is a similar approach

so is delaying the explanations for reads

so is the general pattern of thoughts lacking internal solving motivation. it feels like you need to take time to come up with what your thoughts on the game are rather than just naturally having them


the meta is not the main reason for the read though so i don't really have interest in continuing to litigate it

Can you reword that first point please?

I don’t think I’ve delayed anything but this latest thing with halfasleep, and it hasn’t even been 24 hours. I’ve worked, slept and spent time with someone close to me. It’s long form mafia, give me space.

I’m not having natural thoughts as much as normal because I’m not playing as normal. I’m on mobile until I get my computer fixed and it’s incredibly painful to play so I’m finding difficulty getting into it. Not asking you to accept that but just what it is.

You compared the two games, so I was arguing what I was dealt.

[JacksonVirgo]

it's honestly astounding that jakes's been on site for like five years now and plays like this as town does anyone know if this is normal

That feels incredibly rude

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Jupiter

They perspective slipped actually

[JacksonVirgo]

wow I came back to thread after forty minutes on public transit and I think I've seen a lot of scum theatre, (JV, Jake, Purple)

half-asleep I will respond to purplemango for the sake of fairness, I have part of that post written and will work on it later

VOTE: Jake this is scummier tbh

it's honestly astounding that jakes's been on site for like five years now and plays like this as town does anyone know if this is normal

These are not consistent, quoting random skimmed “jake is scum” like posts but grab any of them. Why would someone who scumreads them insult their towngame here.

[JacksonVirgo]

It’s directly insulting their townplay and not a “they’re so bad they have to be scum” because why else would they word it like they did.

[JacksonVirgo]

“It’s astounding they’ve been on the site with this towngame”

Paraphrased. This wording and yours seems to show to me that your assumption is that they’re town. Which would be the perspective slip in question.

I know what you meant to say, a slip is a slip.

[JacksonVirgo]

it's honestly astounding that jakes's been on site for like five years now and plays like this as town does anyone know if this is normal

To be as clear as I possibly can as I’m going to be busy again really soon.

I know what you were trying to say, that they’re too bad to reasonably be town (which like, I don’t respect you saying and I think that’s incredibly disrespectful).

What you said was filled with the assumption that they actually are town. Most notably your use of “astounding that” rather than something like “astounding if”.

I believe this is because you know he’s town (aka you’re a wolf) and accidentally slipped that with your wording.

[JacksonVirgo]

i don't really wanna play this anymore
i'm right about jake btw lol
my solve is jake, purplemango and jv
thanks see you postgame VOTE: JupiterXV

a slip is a slip so like whatever i guess here's to scum jupiter

Zzz, grow up

[JacksonVirgo]

Don’t just throw in the towel and use AtE when you’re pushed against

[JacksonVirgo]

-_-

[JacksonVirgo]

I will thank you very much

[JacksonVirgo]

Thanks for your blessing

[JacksonVirgo]

That’s a different way of wording the same thing

[JacksonVirgo]

I honestly don’t think you could have reacted worse than what you did, that’s hilarious

[JacksonVirgo]

A slip out of nothing? Want me to not call put what I see? You’re complaining I’m not playing and now complain that I am

[JacksonVirgo]

There was no emotion behind it, why would he do that when a scumread is pushing back for something he feels is meaningless.

[JacksonVirgo]

ok so you agree then cool

Mhm, for what it’s worth I’m fairly confident you’re town

[JacksonVirgo]

Also now that I’ve gotten a response, I also feigned a lot of my confidence with the slip. I do think it’s a bad look but not like caught scum levels of a slip. Their reaction I don’t like at all, it doesn’t feel like a natural response to me (considering where I stand in the game) but at the exact same time they did come back and respond to me fast instead of waiting to see what the general reception was. I think the former is a bad look, the latter a good look but at the same time I’m not sure if scum!jup waits on that now that I’m writing this out but the reaction to it being fast and the almost immediate defeatism is just incredibly awkward. It honestly baffles me that it happened the way it did

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Black

say more?

I think scum is hiding behind this Jake-sized red herring so I’m venturing out to find them.

TMI or counterwagon to save scumbuddy, kay & jake paired

This is laughable. What am I now?

[JacksonVirgo]

Do you not see how if you’re town you’re being controlled by your confbias?

[JacksonVirgo]

Notice how I said “if” you’re town?

[JacksonVirgo]

And you should probably unvote soon because you’re making me want to vote you. If you’re town, I’d suggest unvoting.

This feels like posturing

Does it? How so

[JacksonVirgo]

actually i changed my mind i don't want to play
sm1 hammer please
i'm vt

cool

Based asf of a reply

[JacksonVirgo]

So you’re happy to die to stop playing this game when there are ways to stop playing without tanking the game for your team? This is insanely stubborn and immature.

No matter your alignment, you’re hurting whoever your teammate(s) are by giving up.

Can you knock it off with the personal insults

Excuse me?

[JacksonVirgo]

You all have been incredibly fucking shitty to me- I have had to stop reading the thread beforehand because I have physically wanted to puke.

How? I haven’t seen anything of the sort except you blatantly insulting Jake and doubling down on it and then being incredibly disrespectful towards Kay, again doubling down on that. Why should you be allowed to do that? Sure I personally shouldn’t have told you to grow up, but that was after you were insulting Jake and then doing what I would consider an immature reaction to me just playing the game.

[JacksonVirgo]

You’re upset over that after doing what you did?

[JacksonVirgo]

You’re upset over that after doing what you did?

What did I do

The fact you’re asking this is crazy

[JacksonVirgo]

Ah, now Jupiter. There's no need to show Uranus here. I believe you when you say you honestly didn't slip there.

I honestly don’t think you could have reacted worse than what you did, that’s hilarious

There was no emotion behind it, why would he do that when a scumread is pushing back for something he feels is meaningless.

Jackson, you sly devil. You bluffed your way into catching a scum. Both you and that are amazing.

As I said, I didn't see anything particularly scummy about his insults against me. However, I do strongly agree that him folding like a cheap suit is rather suspicious.

:thumbs-up:

Oh lets compare shall we. That soft banter vs

So you’re happy to die to stop playing this game when there are ways to stop playing without tanking the game for your team? This is insanely stubborn and immature.

No matter your alignment, you’re hurting whoever your teammate(s) are by giving up.

Respectfully, please shut the fuck up

Actually I take that back with zero respect please shut the fuck up

it's honestly astounding that jakes's been on site for like five years now and plays like this as town does anyone know if this is normal

there's no way that jake's on site for five years and has mafia knowledge YET PLAYS LIKE THIS AS TOWN???

[JacksonVirgo]

Also didnt Jake literally say he wasnt insulted???

He said there wasn’t anything scummy behind the insults

[JacksonVirgo]

The way you’re acting doesn’t convince me it wasn’t meant to bring him down.

You’re literally being treated better than you’re treating others are you joking?

[JacksonVirgo]

The way you’re acting doesn’t convince me it wasn’t meant to bring him down.

You’re literally being treated better than you’re treating others are you joking?

What is the point of egging Jupiter on like this? Dude is clearly in a vulnerable state and you don't seem to want to move past it

Don’t

[JacksonVirgo]

Nah so Jupiter is able to literally tell somebody to shut the fuck up, but when that gets backlash *thats* when people care. Like Black, you literally called out Kay for calling what he did immature but said nothing about what Jup did. That’s fucked and I don’t stand for it. I’m leaving this to the mods, moving on. Don’t bring it back

[JacksonVirgo]

I think there's a real chance that Jackson/Kay/Jupiter are all town and scum either watched this episode from the sidelines or nudged it along subtly

i think jackson is townier than i thought before

not sure on kay

still think jake is scum

I like all three, especially the jackson fella

[JacksonVirgo]

I think if there’s bias in my read there it would mostly be for Kay. The one thing I don’t like is Jakes comparison with this game and my traitor game that felt a little disingenuous but I forgot to read what he said back to that so I’ll go do that real quick

[JacksonVirgo]

Ah, now Jupiter. There's no need to show Uranus here. I believe you when you say you honestly didn't slip there.

HURT: JupiterXV

Spiritual voting

Jake can you explain your progression here

I'll admit that I can't actually prove it, but I was biting my tounge a little bit in that first comment.

While I didn't see exactly what Jackson was seeing (I think Jackson was splitting some pretty fine hairs), I did find Jupiter's response to Jackson incriminating. It felt very off-keter and not townlike at all.

Jupiter may not have perspective slipped, but I think that Jupiter believed he was caught perspective slipping.

I believe so too, with that last bit

[JacksonVirgo]

I could go further but I won’t

[JacksonVirgo]

I think there's a real chance that Jackson/Kay/Jupiter are all town and scum either watched this episode from the sidelines or nudged it along subtly

What makes you turn your jup read around?

[JacksonVirgo]

I think there's a real chance that Jackson/Kay/Jupiter are all town and scum either watched this episode from the sidelines or nudged it along subtly

i think jackson is townier than i thought before

not sure on kay

still think jake is scum

I like all three, especially the jackson fella

what makes you townread jake?

It’s not based in logic you could reciprocate but I’ll work on trying to understand the feeling more to try and explain it. Apart from that one thing, I believe their vibe is incredibly townie.

[JacksonVirgo]

Kay, you seem to be suspicious of Black, what donyou think of her reaction to my self-voting?

One of the main reasons for my suspicion. But there have been other things she’s said that I don’t vibe with, and I feel like she’s been consistently trying to get sus on me from the very beginning of the game. Now, when this insanity breaks out, she seems to be defending one person and ignoring everything else. It feels like it’s either because she’s scum with Jupiter or scum and knows Jupiter is town and trying to get ahead of a possible mislim by being so defensive of him. It gives her the ability to point back to all the times she defended someone who turns out to be town as a reason to the townread her.

I think that Black has tried to engage with some players in this game, and those players haven't really reciprocated the engagement. While she has made one-offs that I could best describe as shading, I do think some of her lack of deal is that no one seems interested in holding down a convo with her.

Still, I find her pot-shots scummy and want to push her for them.

I'm a little surprised neither of these comments were accompanied by a vote for me

Especially Kay's, who seems to be considering two different scenarios in which I could be scum

This feels disingenuous, you know why they’re on who they’re on yes?

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m saying that throwing suspicions your way does not mean that people have to vote you if they feel their vote is better elsewhere. You’re essentially shading (for lack of a better term) them both for reasons that is just completely taking all context out of the equation. So I feel you saying that is incredibly disingenuous, I don’t believe that’s a real thought.

[JacksonVirgo]

For what it’s worth, I don’t think you both have a good chance at being wolves together. Jupiter and yourself that is. I don’t see you backing off of him the way you did if you were.

I do see one scum within you both. I think you have strong equity, as does Jupiter. The most top of the dome thought about why you’d remove your vote as a wolf would be to try and bag some sort of credit for it, or even one part of a plan for pocketing fire/Jupiter. Your reasoning for backing off from Jupiter was exactly what I expected it to be, which is fine I don’t hate that AtE affects you but it does make me incredibly cautious around you. I don’t fully trust it.

I won’t beat a dead horse about my reasoning with Jup though

[JacksonVirgo]

I don’t care which of the two I vote

[JacksonVirgo]

Lmfao I sure did but my point still stands.

[JacksonVirgo]

It kinda threw me for a loop realising neither were on who I thought, hilarious

[JacksonVirgo]

On my break I’ll try and reorder my thoughts

[JacksonVirgo]

Black and Kay, can you both explain why you think I’m town real quick?

[JacksonVirgo]

Black and Kay, can you both explain why you think I’m town real quick?

Vibes mainly. I am townreading your aggression and it feels like you're trying to solve

I don’t like that you shifted in Jup and now myself based on vibes, not to say you cannot read by vibes but it’s incredibly convenient for you to do so. I can’t help but think you’re trying to play devils advocate maliciously to try and undermine a lot of the game considering how potent the JV v Jup had gotten in a quick amount of time.

[JacksonVirgo]

I say and now, but that’s just because I’m finding it out the reason now I’m not saying you just shifted that read on me

[JacksonVirgo]

I say “and now” in that, not because that’s something that happened after you changed your jupiter read but because I’m only finding out the reason now.

EBWOP

Also Black, did you start townreading me at the same time you shifted on Jupiter? Or when did that happen?

[JacksonVirgo]

@Black. If not Kay or Jake, who are you looking at?

[JacksonVirgo]

What’s not to like?

[JacksonVirgo]

I actively do not want Kay or Jake out, you don’t want yourself or jup which are my preferences here. I’m willing to consolidate my vote elsewhere.

Fire and Black are you also willing? Ignoring my suspicions I don’t want this much dissonance D1.

[JacksonVirgo]

I don’t have time to explain either, a lot of it is that tonally being townie. It just feels incredibly wrong to consider either them or Kay going out

[JacksonVirgo]

Jackson if your preference is to vote Jupiter or Bkack, you know I’m already voting black. Why feel the need to compromise with her if you want her out? She doesn’t run the game, you don’t need her permission to vote for her. And you don’t need her blessing to vote someone else.

I don’t need her vote, I’m gathering my options.

But for the meantime this flip is the best

VOTE: Black

[JacksonVirgo]

There was no progression. I stand by what I said.

[JacksonVirgo]

Sick of you shading people like you’ve been doing this entire time

[JacksonVirgo]

What’s not to like?

it seemed like the reach of the century and i didn't believe that you really thought you saw a slip there.

Have you read the game? I explained my thought process

[JacksonVirgo]

Sick of you shading people like you’ve been doing this entire time

I shade people when I'm town. You're voting for me because you're mad at me

Nah, I’m voting you because you’re scummy, and I happen to also be mad at you.

[JacksonVirgo]

What’s not to like?

it seemed like the reach of the century and i didn't believe that you really thought you saw a slip there.

Have you read the game? I explained my thought process

i have, yes. but for posterity:

VOTE: Jupiter

They perspective slipped actually

wow I came back to thread after forty minutes on public transit and I think I've seen a lot of scum theatre, (JV, Jake, Purple)

half-asleep I will respond to purplemango for the sake of fairness, I have part of that post written and will work on it later

VOTE: Jake this is scummier tbh

it's honestly astounding that jakes's been on site for like five years now and plays like this as town does anyone know if this is normal

These are not consistent, quoting random skimmed “jake is scum” like posts but grab any of them. Why would someone who scumreads them insult their towngame here.

“It’s astounding they’ve been on the site with this towngame”

Paraphrased. This wording and yours seems to show to me that your assumption is that they’re town. Which would be the perspective slip in question.

I know what you meant to say, a slip is a slip.

it's honestly astounding that jakes's been on site for like five years now and plays like this as town does anyone know if this is normal

To be as clear as I possibly can as I’m going to be busy again really soon.

I know what you were trying to say, that they’re too bad to reasonably be town (which like, I don’t respect you saying and I think that’s incredibly disrespectful).

What you said was filled with the assumption that they actually are town. Most notably your use of “astounding that” rather than something like “astounding if”.

I believe this is because you know he’s town (aka you’re a wolf) and accidentally slipped that with your wording.

Also now that I’ve gotten a response, I also feigned a lot of my confidence with the slip. I do think it’s a bad look but not like caught scum levels of a slip. Their reaction I don’t like at all, it doesn’t feel like a natural response to me (considering where I stand in the game) but at the exact same time they did come back and respond to me fast instead of waiting to see what the general reception was. I think the former is a bad look, the latter a good look but at the same time I’m not sure if scum!jup waits on that now that I’m writing this out but the reaction to it being fast and the almost immediate defeatism is just incredibly awkward. It honestly baffles me that it happened the way it did

anyway i think saying something you don't believe is 'astounding' is perfectly legible rhetoric and i find it hard to believe you got so much out of it. and i guess that makes two of us.

That’s like not at all what I was calling out

[JacksonVirgo]

This game is so cursed, even more than the other micro where scum did nuthin

[JacksonVirgo]

That’s like not at all what I was calling out

ok then, what am i misunderstanding here?

jackson, any elaboration on this?

Yeah but give me time I’m working

[JacksonVirgo]

That’s like not at all what I was calling out

ok then, what am i misunderstanding here?

jackson, any elaboration on this?

“it's honestly astounding that jakes's been on site for like five years now and plays like this as town does anyone know if this is normal” - Jupiter 2023

Sure, so initially I saw his wording choice wasn’t really lining up with what he would be believing if he were Town. He is meaning to say that he believes Jake is scum because this play would otherwise be insane to come from a Town. He is also asking people for other thoughts on the validity of that thought. I was never debating that, and I’m stating this to make it clear the thought process all through it including any assumptions I take for granted that you may disagree with.

With that thought, he would br confident but still isn’t sure (hence asking for external feedback). The exact wording I saw as a possible Freudian slip as the use of “that” in the first sentence seems to subtly insinuate that he believes that he is Town, yet acting like he’s not.

The operative term is exactly that “that” as I would have otherwise expected he would use a word that wasn’t so cut and dry such as “if”.

Whether you agree to that or not, I saw something worth investigating so as I do as often as I’m genuinely confident I overly exaggerated my confidence to try and get a decent response out of Jup, as if I’m all subtle and like “oh maybe its scummy idk” that’s not going to put pressure on anybody, and pressure is what gets the scum to choke and slip up exactly like he did.

[JacksonVirgo]

You didn’t bring this up and I didn’t reply to get your thoughts on the accuracy. It was for your read on me

[JacksonVirgo]

So ignoring the fact you disagree with me, which is NAI for us both. Does that change anything? Seeing my full thought process

[JacksonVirgo]

i don't think it does. it's what i already thought you were saying but it's good to go through it clearly. i didn't really trust it at the time and i still don't now. like i said it's more that you wanted to shut that down at the time that keeps you in my scumpool.
though i can also imagine the world where town-you was feeling good about where your read might be taking you and didn't like me poking it before you'd gotten jupiter's reaction. that wouldn't be unreasonable, it think. hrm. considering that might push you back towards neutral territory for me. idk i'll let it simmer.

Shut what down?

[JacksonVirgo]

You just caught me in an emotional moment and I reacted in a super defensive way. Which I regret

[JacksonVirgo]

It wasn’t because you were shutting it down prematurely or anything, I lashed out in a sense

[JacksonVirgo]

I can elaborate more on that in particular if you want that

[JacksonVirgo]

i mean i think if you there's something you want to elaborate on go for it. but if your reasons for being emotional there are real life stuff i don't think i need to, or ought to, ask after that.

Had nothing to do with irl, I won’t waste my breath if you don’t want to hear it.

You say you took that thing back, is your read on me still as scum?

[JacksonVirgo]

Gunna go back to reading through but just to give a little bit of direction in the meantime, could people let me know what their current reads are (at least, a main suspect if possible) to give me an idea of the game state.

(If you've posted them already, I'm sure I'll see them, but letting me know the post number would be useful too)

Thanks

I suspect you and black, I also have this hanging feeling over halfasleep.

[JacksonVirgo]

The consensus is that, or kay/jake.
Thats the mains at the moment that I feel is important

[JacksonVirgo]

The consensus is that, or kay/jake.
Thats the mains at the moment that I feel is important

"That" meaning the Lim pool atm is my slot/Black's slot/Kay/Jake?

It’s more complicated than that but that’s the gist. Purple too etc but the specifics are better off handled by you catching up

[JacksonVirgo]

Kay, I think Fire is pretty substantially townie which I’ll explain soon if needed, I don’t think I ever did explain that properly.

[JacksonVirgo]

Not suprised scum would stick to their agenda

[JacksonVirgo]

KJQ, if I uncross you from my townie list, will that be too annoying?

I kinda want to cause that 'he' felt a bit like you're TMIing on a partner

so, like, I'd flip both jake and virgo, and if that doesn't end the game I'd flip you but I still pretty much think you're a townie

pedit: I see, its virgo then.

VOTE: jacksonvirgo

The "he" being TMI seems like a stretch.

I wonder why

[JacksonVirgo]

Is it not obvious by my last few postd

[JacksonVirgo]

You can wait then fire

[JacksonVirgo]

Also don’t call me Jack please, I only like thst from people close to me

[JacksonVirgo]

You can wait then fire

shouldn't be that hard, takes less time than you already spent avoiding it

I have time, I just don’t care

[JacksonVirgo]

Its a waste of my time so I’ll waste yours

[JacksonVirgo]

it's not a waste of time. im asking because i think, ironically, it feels like a perspective slip

We’ve come full circle, is it my time to rep out?

[JacksonVirgo]

it's not a waste of time. im asking because i think, ironically, it feels like a perspective slip

I think we’ve come full circle now lol

LOL, I never laughed so hard reading a post

[JacksonVirgo]

Gimli, your catchup being long is good. Gives us stuff to work woth, I can’t read it much beyond just a skim at the moment but thank you

[JacksonVirgo]

Reminder not to talk about potentially replacing out.

Lol sorry, couldn’t help it

[JacksonVirgo]

also considering you strongly townread me apparently i don't know why you would be so disinterested in helping me find you as town if you are

Because you should know what I mean, having me speak it is annoying and useless and I’m stubborn. You can wait.

[JacksonVirgo]

I believe they’re playing towards a specific agenda, duh. Didn’t know I had to speak the obvious jesus christ

[JacksonVirgo]

I said he was town before she said that, did you happen to miss that? Or selectively ignore it?

[JacksonVirgo]

I don’t have much thoughts on mango, they’re one of my regular slip through the cracks reads but I can try and ISO them and see what my read is after that

[JacksonVirgo]

I believe they’re playing towards a specific agenda, duh. Didn’t know I had to speak the obvious jesus christ

i didn't ask you to explain what the post meant, i asked you to explain your thought process behind making it. because i wanted to see if there was any evaluation in there of "why would thomith scum be criticizing the scum agenda that i believe the scum team has"

I have a suggestion, ask the questions you want the answer to. I’m not a mind reader.

I was being childish and poking at my suspicions cuz it was hilarious.

[JacksonVirgo]

I said he was town before she said that, did you happen to miss that? Or selectively ignore it?

I saw it

that's what I'd do as scum, just townread fire and KJQ and align myself with my townreads

your entire play makes sense I just think it comes from scum a lot cause of all the times scum played their cards exactly like you played yours. in many different instances of this gamethread.

give me a spicy mango read

I’m my own person

[JacksonVirgo]

Can you TL;DR the read on me

[JacksonVirgo]

i literally did ask the question i wanted the answer to very directly

And I gave you the answer, I thought it was very likely an agenda. That’s the single thought behind the post

[JacksonVirgo]

Can you TL;DR the read on me

posturing on sailor moon's cat readslist was pretty scummy. you were scumreading things in a way I take as forcing a scumread and not genuine thought process. your reaction to jake was the worst alongside mango, imo. just toe tipping around it, unsure what to do, hiding and backtracking in a way that fits an unsure scum play and not an unsure town play. there's a town version of being unsure that I feel ain't what you're doing.

I felt like your push on jupiter was good, but it was on a townie, and if you're a decent scum player (like your in game posture suggests you are) then that's an easy push to make. I liked that you backtracked a bit on how strongly you felt about it, which made me doubt the scumread.

I'll again note you're playing a very positionally minded game and I've seen no solve from you that makes me feel like town evaluating.

there's something to be said about POE as well at this point. there are many other slots are whole lot townier than you are.

of course, wanting to fade black when she was obvtown doesn't help your case much.

Just because I am more reserved than you’d like does not mean I’m scummy. I act in a way that I feel benefits the town, I’ve learned a decent bit ago that my regular gung ho way of playing was only as effective as I am lucky and I am no longer doing that. I am playing coy, I am playing reserved and above all I am playing in a way that I deem beneficial no matter what that looks like. I’m not afraid to greatly exaggerate my confidence if I deem it necessary to do and I have done that plenty here. My read on Jake started incredibly weak, I wanted to put my foot in the door to force myself to make a stance on him and as such I did just that. It was doubled as a joke as well because Im a funny aussie guy but it’s still useful.

Reading me based on the accuracy of my read is also incredibly foolish. I cannot stress how much I resent that.

[JacksonVirgo]

Unconventional? Sure. scummy? No

[JacksonVirgo]

Gimli you gonna respond back to me? Or did you feel like not commenting further?

[JacksonVirgo]

Ooo my favourite player is here

[JacksonVirgo]

Sorry Jake

[JacksonVirgo]

So what I’m getting here is:
-comment on no one except my scumread - I’m scum
-comment on other slots - no not like that, scum
-give a reads list, doesn’t matter - I’m scum

If anyone is wondering why I’ve been defending myself it’s because nothing I say or do is met with anything but negativity in terms of my place in the game. When exactly is a good time to stop defending myself? When I give up? Is that the trajectory here, I’m meant to get so exhausted with defending myself that I just give up? I’m not going to. So I’ll continue to defend myself because at least one person doing this isn’t doing it to help town.

Literally how does anyone not see this as town?

[JacksonVirgo]

Sleepy understands me. She is the only one that gets to call me scum from now on.

vote kay if you want to pocket me mr mafia

I would, but if she dies then I'll never be kissed

Kissed?

[JacksonVirgo]

Sorry Jake

The day I'm anyone's favorite player is the day I'll finally get to retire.

Against Kay, aint no chance sorry bud. You are up there though

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm back to thinking its virgo +1 and kay is being pocketed lol

that post of hers just doesn't vibe as a towny one to me? and yet virgo is like 'how does ANYONE not see this is towny' and I'm like... really? that's townie? idk, I don't think it's that townie, but maybe for a scum player that knows her alignment is town this looks towny af.

You’re incredibly off base. Your arguments are so filled with faulty logic it’s actually insane. You saying I’m scummy because “black is town and ur pushing her owo”, and just straight assuming my read here can only come about from TMI

Get your head out of your ass.

[JacksonVirgo]

It reads as logic you’re trying to set up for the sake of a goal instead of genuine thoughts.

[JacksonVirgo]

Or if it is genuine thoughts, stop

[JacksonVirgo]

I could be wrong but I’m seeing purplemango’s posts coming from a newer player and not so much AI in any way but just from a stance of the game being a bit overwhelming and not really knowing what to comment on or how to read the flow. I don’t feel an overwhelming reason to scum read his ISO right now.

I agree with you, I think mango is probably the safer bet for anybody to pivot to so I don’t really trust or want that pushed at the moment

[JacksonVirgo]

Given I’m stubborn and want who I want

[JacksonVirgo]

I could be wrong but I’m seeing purplemango’s posts coming from a newer player and not so much AI in any way but just from a stance of the game being a bit overwhelming and not really knowing what to comment on or how to read the flow. I don’t feel an overwhelming reason to scum read his ISO right now.

I agree with you, I think mango is probably the safer bet for anybody to pivot to so I don’t really trust or want that pushed at the moment

This is my only concern to, the focus shifted to Purple a little too quickly/easily for my liking.

I’m glad you have that same concern. To be extra clear, I think it’s easy to pivot to regardless of alignment but that gives scum (if they are being pressured rn) an easier way to dodge that so that’s my main concern with that wagon right now.

[JacksonVirgo]

mango is pretty coinflip for me rn which like yea sometimes those land on heads but i am not really gonna be that excited about flipping it

Yeah I’m with you on that

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm back to thinking its virgo +1 and kay is being pocketed lol

that post of hers just doesn't vibe as a towny one to me? and yet virgo is like 'how does ANYONE not see this is towny' and I'm like... really? that's townie? idk, I don't think it's that townie, but maybe for a scum player that knows her alignment is town this looks towny af.

You’re incredibly off base. Your arguments are so filled with faulty logic it’s actually insane. You saying I’m scummy because “black is town and ur pushing her owo”, and just straight assuming my read here can only come about from TMI

Get your head out of your ass.

Aww Jackson, now there's no need for such insults. They only serve to further infuriate and muddy the game.
At the very least, it won't help convice anyone that you're right.

I don’t think any of that are insults? A little aggressive, sure. I’ll rephrase.

Gimli, I don’t think your arguments are substantial at all. They seem to be the arguments made to force yourself to a conclusion that you want it to. Whether that is an agenda like I’m inherently believing or confirmation bias it’s the same deal. The logic surrounding TMI and then read accuracy especially as I called out are the most potent examples of it that I can call off my head. I don’t believe you should be even remotely making those arguments, so if you’re town I’d like you to touch base for a moment and reassess what’s actually scummy and what’s not.

[JacksonVirgo]

Kay had been barraged for a decent while, the frustration (or whatever the word is) for what people are actually expecting from here is extremely apparent there. I see it coming from a place where she genuinely feels targeted no matter what she does, which I completely empathise with.

[JacksonVirgo]

Im cautious about Thom, I don’t want to make the contrast of him and Jup to made me read him town just for being a more level voice.

[JacksonVirgo]

jackson, kjq and jake: i believe you all scumread thomith's slot at various points when it was jupiter in the driver's seat. how has thomith's posting affected your pereception of the slot so far?

I want to be clear that this isn’t meant to insult the previous slot owner.

I feel much better about the slot due to the level-headed approach to the game Thom seems to have. It feels like a more mature perspective and I’m getting more information than I did from the slot previously.

Now I run into a problem here because that’s the best way to fool me. I want to tentatively pull him out of my scum reads but I worry I’m falling into a trap of my own making by trusting it too much.

Huge mindmeld

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Gimli

I don’t remember who I was voting

[JacksonVirgo]

Fire how detached from this game are you?

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m purposely not commenting on that until others do

[JacksonVirgo]

full disclosure this is how my reads are looking like

halfasleep
JacksonVirgo
Jake The Wolfie
KayJayQueue
Purplemango
JupiterXV
fireisredsir
awesomeming327

its very skill issue and I'm very annoyed

re-read jacksonvirgo now and, eh, could totally be just a townie

Bruh

[JacksonVirgo]

Why am I town now?

[JacksonVirgo]

Why don’t you have an updated list? That feels like busywork

[JacksonVirgo]

Why don’t you have an updated list? That feels like busywork

I can do a list that gives no info too if you want lol


Town: Jack 10/10, awesome, so town, love, would recommend

Everyone else - definitely something


/s
/j
Hopefully that’s apparent lol

Finally someone with impeccable reads <3

[JacksonVirgo]

why do you think that gimli would take this approach as scum

To not keep attacking people that are vocal, to open up paths to pivot to literally any single person they want without damaging their progression. Things like this.

Is it unconventional? Sure.
Does it mean they’re town? Not necessarily

[JacksonVirgo]

Why don’t you have an updated list? That feels like busywork

I had a readslist last night and you said 'I'll wait for everyone to respond first' - cause of course you did - remember that? it had you and mango as scum. I then made a big post on mango afterwards, and then I ISO'd you this morning. how do you go from acknowledging my post with updated reads on everyone (2 pages ago?) to ask me for an updated reads list now? did you forget?

btw what exactly feels like busywork? painting everyone green, does that appear busy to you?

Why is Jup on your list is what I meant. Busywork is posting for the sake of looking like you’re doing something

[JacksonVirgo]

Answer my other question too, thanks

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah I’m confident it’s just you

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah I’m confident it’s just you

ok confident boy

speaking of unanswered questions, you still haven't answered mine. how the hell do you ask me for an updated reads list when I have done so two pages ago?

I didn’t, I asked why you didn’t have an updated list (aka why is it jup and not thom)

[JacksonVirgo]

why do you think that gimli would take this approach as scum

To not keep attacking people that are vocal, to open up paths to pivot to literally any single person they want without damaging their progression. Things like this.

Is it unconventional? Sure.
Does it mean they’re town? Not necessarily

him being town is the vastly more likely explanation for his approach here and if you're town you are very unreasonably tunneled

Alrighty

[JacksonVirgo]

not sure what the implication here is. i'd be very surprised if both of them were scum, personally.

I'm strong TRing KJQ at this point, but when she posts about virgo I get weirded out by the tone and strength of the read.

virgo is doing even worse at it cause he is pointing at the most NAI stuff KJQ wrote and calling it towny.

I don't think they're svs, I have explored that path yesterday and thought their interactions were too unlikely.

You’ve been saying NAI shit is scummy all game lmfao

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah I’m confident it’s just you

ok confident boy

speaking of unanswered questions, you still haven't answered mine. how the hell do you ask me for an updated reads list when I have done so two pages ago?

I didn’t, I asked why you didn’t have an updated list (aka why is it jup and not thom)

how is that relevant

Because it feels entirely like you wanted to make a list so you made it without thinking about who is actually in the game

[JacksonVirgo]

ok it does seem like there's no chance i can get anyone on my first choice, kay, today. it looks like consolidating at least three votes (between me, fire and gimli) on either jackson or ming is possible here. i think i'm more inclined to want to flip jackson right now.

what makes you prefer jackson?

their dynamic with kay, mainly. i'm feeling more and more strongly that one of them is likely scum, so flipping either would be very helpful to me.

What about the dynamic?

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m the inverse, I’ll have more time than usual

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Gimli

Meh

Another quote to make it the third

[JacksonVirgo]

Pagetop too, based

[JacksonVirgo]

ok it does seem like there's no chance i can get anyone on my first choice, kay, today. it looks like consolidating at least three votes (between me, fire and gimli) on either jackson or ming is possible here. i think i'm more inclined to want to flip jackson right now.

what makes you prefer jackson?

their dynamic with kay, mainly. i'm feeling more and more strongly that one of them is likely scum, so flipping either would be very helpful to me.

What about the dynamic?

like gimli, the level of unconditional townreading, mutual defense and agreement is very hard to believe from town + town. i have a hard time imagining that scum + scum would want to behave that way (double bluff? seems unlikely).
based on that and the issues i've had with both of you earlier, i think i lean towards thinking one of you could be scum successfully pocketing the other. i don't think kay is limmable today so i'm going to start prioritising you.

The mutual defence is because we town-read each other, it could be heavily bolstered by the fact we’re close outside of the game but genuinely I think they’re Town and their behaviour has coincided with that pretty heavily.

[JacksonVirgo]

Why would I not defend who I consider Town

[JacksonVirgo]

I never said I knew they were town

[JacksonVirgo]

I believe they’re town so I’m opposed to them being pushed, I don’t like the arguments presented against her so I’m opposed to the push. I think others are scummier so I push them.

[JacksonVirgo]

Ooo exciting that I’m being wagoned now, never would have thought I’d see the day

[JacksonVirgo]

Spoiler: My Defense

[JacksonVirgo]

cool

I know I am

[JacksonVirgo]

you said i was based last time

You’re still based don’t worry

[JacksonVirgo]

Why does out of game connection change a thing for who is doing the pocketing (if any)

[JacksonVirgo]

It is true, I’m also not stupid(?) like you are seemingly making it out that I am

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m just going to ignore how condescending you are right now

[JacksonVirgo]

Don’t keep it going

[JacksonVirgo]

I’ll respond to what you said soon

[JacksonVirgo]

There’s a difference between taking something to heart and requesting to be treated with respect.

[JacksonVirgo]

It’s not a fuzzy line

[JacksonVirgo]

It is true, I’m also not stupid(?) like you are seemingly making it out that I am

its not true

she was only voted by three slots TOTAL after RVS in this game: black, fireisred and halfasleep. her wagon got to 2 votes total. fuck I have three votes on me right now and you don't see me throwing a fit, do you? mango had three votes on him at a time. jake even got to E-1 (with his own help). multiple slots have been pushed much more strongly than KJQ, but that's not your perception, because her AtE got to you. because she is your friend, and you're susceptible.

I'm not calling you an idiot, mafia is a pretty hard game at times. this is a particularly hard game. but feel free to feel insulted *shrug*

There’s a lot more to a push than simply votes, and it doesn’t matter how I react to it or you, we’re different people. Throwing every single person under the same umbrella is a naive approach at best. Her reaction to it I consider lining up with my read on her and as such it’s a stronger read at the end of the day.

Calling it throwing a fit is also unacceptable please choose better terms.

[JacksonVirgo]

There’s a difference between taking something to heart and requesting to be treated with respect.

point to where I disrespected you

Again, you’ve been condescending this entire time. I’m asking you to stop

[JacksonVirgo]

I would really appreciate you accept my wishes wrt all that, it’s making me apathetic towards you and that’s not good if you’re town or if you want me to turn my read around

[JacksonVirgo]

Calling it a fit is dropping it to something no better than impulsive emotional nonsense essentially, which it isn’t. It’s incredibly demeaning for what is actually happening. You have a consistent track record for writing off any disagreements with your own reads as lesser or even, shockingly to me, AI. You’ve written my read on black as scummy because for as much as I can see it just differs from yours and you’re just so much better than me and I should just know (not how the game works).

KJQ has been treated pretty poorly wrt the push on her that had been substantially different than the push on myself or you. That’s not even considering the difference in who we all are because that’s barely even relevant.

You’re talking about her being defensive even though being defensive isn’t AI at all by itself and if I were in her shoes as a town I would probably be much MORE defensive. If at any given point nothing seems to be doing shit, would you not consider that frustrating at the very least? If you’re not able to see it, maybe try putting yourself in her shoes somewhat. And not in some shallow self-validating way but properly in her shoes

[JacksonVirgo]

You’re also constantly going on about townreading people but putting them in your solve and that’s incredibly jarring

[JacksonVirgo]

It’s essentially people showing that they don’t care what you do and will think you’re scummy regardless. It takes a very particular person to not be defensive in that circumstance.

[JacksonVirgo]

As would I, just asked him to stop or it’ll just bottle inside me and nobody wants that, unless you do >:C

[JacksonVirgo]

I don’t think my reads matter. What will further elaborating on my scumread on Gimli do? Will I just continue to get condescended to and told I’m wrong by the same 2 people? What’s the point? To give more ammo to use against me that I’d need to defend against but then also be told I’m being too defensive? Like, if you’re scum, good job. But at what point is enough enough? Is it because I’m the only one engaging? You couldn’t get legs for Jake, purple, ming, Jupiter burnt out on his own, and now that Jackson isn’t gaining traction, will it just be right back to me? It doesn’t matter how much effort I put into my analysis because the players that aren’t really participating aren’t reading it anyway and the ones that are, are lying in wait to tear everything I say apart. Except for the one person who agrees with me but even that’s not allowed, because you have to attack the fact that we are townreading each other too. Give me one good reason to give you more of my time and effort. If the reason is so that I’m not mislimmed, at this point, it would be incredibly satisfying to get to watch those wanting me out on Day 2 when they have to humble themselves when they see I’m town. And I know if this happened, you’d still find a way to make my elimination my own fault. If you all can’t see that that’s what we’re moving towards, I don’t know what to tell you.

It really does feel like Gimli specifically doesn’t allow reads that don’t align with his own, that there must be something further going on if someone (or a group) are not on the exact wavelength that he is on, which goes without saying is an incredibly naive approach to the game. As you’re likely incredibly aware, but worth repeating anyway, his statements surrounding TMI are especially bad. Everything seems to heavily hooked into his own personal view of the game state like this heavily warped positive feedback loop.

There’s also people like fire who has been actively dropping in my reads substantially as they’re just hanging on and prodding the flames adding nothing of substance back into the game. I want that looked into further as well.

[JacksonVirgo]

I don’t like Gimlis approach to this game. To put it simply it all feels like he wants to push a particular conclusion and builds a case around that instead of what town should be doing which is the exact opposite.

[JacksonVirgo]

I don’t like Gimlis approach to this game. To put it simply it all feels like he wants to push a particular conclusion and builds a case around that instead of what town should be doing which is the exact opposite.

By extension to this I believe that his reasonings for things are so focused and not at all substantive. I called out why us knowing each other outside of the game changes which of the two of us is the evil, it shouldn’t it changes absolutely nothing yet he’s pretending it does. It’s all fluffed logic in order to push who he wants to push. That’s simply it. The end.

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m done arguing to a wolf that he’s a wolf. I want town to come in and talk with me