Micro Normal 1102: ootmgoat [game over!]

[Klick]

nice

[Klick]

I have read the entirety of Page 1 and skimmed the last two pages

Disappointingly, my top townread coming out of Page 1 is Gimli
I also think he's probably right about Dragon being town

I will be sus of Dann if he doesn't townread at least one of them when he starts posting reads

[Klick]

Hello
This game has a fantastic playerlist and you are a top contributor to that

[Klick]

I will be sus of Dann if he doesn't townread at least one of them when he starts posting reads

i often disagree with your confident town reads ?

That's cool and fine
I think both of these seem like situations in which you'd accurately townread them

That could be wrong! There's a lot left to read

[Klick]

I'm going to do a fairly quick skim-through to get a decent grasp of things and post simple notes
This game seems uniquely suited to me playing how I feel most comfortable playing which is nice

[Klick]

Duelist Kage is the first person I feel legitimately sus about early on
I find DragonEater mindmelding on this in 74 town-indicative

CSF 105 - It's worth noting that this is very much a way to accurately solve for KJQ!scum, at least if she was playing scum at all similarly to our last game. I don't have much an opinion on KJQ myself at the minute, but I like that this post lines up with why KJQ was scum last game and am keeping my eyes peeled.

Continuing the theme of 'reads I agree with in theory even if I don't see them yet', DragonEater's 112 sounds exactly like how to read CSF from my memory. I haven't felt that strongly about CSF yet but life and energy does = town.

I'm thus far unconvinced by Dann's perspective on the game. I don't love 113, it feels strange to me that Dann doesn't seem to understand why Gimli would be hesitant to townread Dann. It sort of feels like the commentary is out-of-place and there for the sake of being there? Dunno.
If Dann is town I trust that it will be clear eventually, but so far I'm not feeling it

I kind of like Hu Tao's take on the game? The Dragon and CSF townreads feel genuine
Further down Page 7, I hard townread Hu Tao. The sequence from 167-169 screams town with a genuine perspective. I also think her read on Gimli in 178 and 179 is entirely believable based on how Death Note went

I entirely believe 215 as reasoning for Dragon joining the Gimli wagon

I don't see May!town atm when everyone else is

---

I'm at the bottom of Page 11

Drew and Hu Tao are town
I think Kage and Dann are sus and at least one is scum

[Klick]

dragon/gimli was the same solve i was tossing around in my head this morning

VOTE: Dannflor

[Klick]

That's one way it can become clear!

[Klick]

VOTE: kage

This is just getting ridiculous.

If you’re town, this gameplay is baffling. Just take a minute and get a solid read for once, like damn lol

I think this is a pretty towny post!

[Klick]

That doesn’t do a lot for me personally

I think you can decide something is within someone’s scum range even if they’ve never done it before

And it’s not like duelist commented on some out-there gambit or something, it was literally just you throwing reads out there early

which also i feel like you do that all the time lol hence you making a thread about how to not throw reads out there so easily

And yes, this post is why I'm leaning town on Dannflor right now

, even if I have a few concerns

. He can see straight through how bad that was. "I've never done this as scum therefore that's a fake read" is staggering. First, how would I even know whether someone has

ever

done something? I doubt any of us read every single thing that other players do. Second, I would have had so many more pleasant games without anyone ever being able to do anything but townread me if "I haven't ever done it as scum therefore I'm town" was how reads worked.

I feel like bolded is the sort of thing that some scum can't help but put when they're talking about a partner

[Klick]

I'm up to page 28, I'll read a bit more before work

I think it's Kage/Dann
I think Kage is giving the kind of surface-level solving and focus that scum like to give. I think especially some of Dann's more recent posts are intended to make sure Kage doesn't go over today, because he realises that he doesn't endgame if Kage flips today.

I want to read the fabled Kage Catchup Post I keep reading about, and get more confident reads on players like Black and May, but otherwise I pretty strongly prefer a flip on one of Kage/Dann and don't have a huge preference which at the moment

[Klick]

I keep coming back to 112 and then 203 and then 224

it just very much feels like the brand of AtE that comes from scum who desperately believes they haven't done anything scummy

This doesn't feel like a natural conclusion to take from these posts

[Klick]

Wait so what exactly are people calling Kage's 'catch-up'?

[Klick]

look, i have a PT with duelist and some stuff happened in there that made me not want to lim her today

I think it's possible she's scum but I'm much more interested in finding a potential partner today if that's the case

and if you think duelist is scum, I honestly think drew/dragon is a good candidate with how dragon kept soft pushing duelist and duelist basically locked dragon as town despite focusing an overwhelming amount of her posting on the issues she had with dragon

I am not willing to eliminate outside of {Dannflor, Kage} today

Do you prefer your own elimination or Kage's

[Klick]

Hu Tao I'm pretty sure you are town and I don't want 'I think Klick is scum' to be a recurring theme
Do you want to sort this out now or later
I could probably make a pretty good town case for Gimli but also I'm just town

[Klick]

We just have to wait for the answer to Klick

[Klick]

I'm unsure why you are

[Klick]

Living to Day 2 means being in 5-2 instead of 6-1 which is good for obvious reasons

[Klick]

Hu Tao I'm pretty sure you are town and I don't want 'I think Klick is scum' to be a recurring theme
Do you want to sort this out now or later
I could probably make a pretty good town case for Gimli but also I'm just town

Let's do this now then. Why are you town

Ignores

I'm not going to make a case in the ten minutes I have before work lol

[Klick]

So evidence of Gimli-town

The main thing I saw as I was catching up re: Gimli was that his primary focus was on obtaining reads and reaching a satisfying solve

I think the progression up to 148 is very much categorical of how town-Gimli plays the game - he worked his way towards a solve he was happy with and his entire play is oriented around the reads he has presented and their strength.

I think his progression from voting Dragon in 200 to crossing him off again in 238 is telling. He puts pressure on Dragon, gets into the AtE argument with him briefly while repeating that he's going to do a proper catch-up later, and then... does said proper catch-up in the 40 minutes between 210 and 238, concluding that Dragon's town.

The whole interaction is really pointless if Gimli is scum, unless the argument is that Gimli and Dragon are scum together. This is what actual working through something in-the-moment looks like, as opposed to presenting thoughts that one wants to be picked up on and townread for.

I think Gimli's flip-flopping on whether KJQ is likely town or not is very clearly town-indicative. I think you can clearly track how he sees KJQ and see that it lines up with actual thought on whether KJQ has the potential to be scum in this game. Like Dragon, he comes to the conclusion that KJQ is likely to just be town.

---

I'm about a third of the way through Gimli's ISO and I feel like I'm going to continue saying variants of the same thing. Overall I think Gimli's objective is primarily getting an accurate solve of the game and wrapping it up. It's energy that I frequently resonate with as town particularly in Micros (I seem to be doing it right now), and it's done pretty flatly in a way that doesn't naturally draw many townreads (which is the opposite of Gimli's usual scum approach).

I'm getting bored but let me know if you want any more of this Hu

[Klick]

Because Hu is town and if today does not end in a scum elimination then Hu scumreading me is a problem

[Klick]

I think there are four viable potential scum and she's one of them
I have a very poor grasp on what kind of player she is
She vaguely gives the impression that she's good enough at scum that simple tells wouldn't really work on her
Nothing has me leaning one way or the other atm really

I'm intrigued by someone feeling familiar with my scum game but not my town game

[Klick]

I am significantly more anxious as scum than as town, that is accurate
I also feel anxious in this game

There are a few reasons I'm anxious with this game in particular

1. I think you're pretty likely to be scum and I fear you, but I also fear being wrong about that
2. Outside of that in particular, I'm uncomfortable with the synergy between what the players in this game value and what I provide to a game of Mafia
3. I am most relaxed playing a game from the start and creating things to analyse; combined with the above, I feel like I've stepped into a well-developed gamestate with important dynamics already in place and I don't really want to disrupt what has already developed
4. Probably a fair amount of IRL anxiety bleeding in

[Klick]

I think there's two scum in {Kage, Dann, May, Black}
I think {Drew, Hu Tao, CSF, JacksonVirgo} is all town

Kage and Dann are the two players I feel *scummy* about and I think they make sense as a team
If that's wrong, May and Black are essentially PoE for me

[Klick]

I have gone back to check Dragon a couple times upon prompting from the recent conversation around it but I'm unconvinced that Dragon isn't just town off of the conversation he and Gimli had

[Klick]

I'm less convinced of Dann!scum than I have represented thus far
Dann was half-right when he said I really want to catch him; it's less that I want to *be right* on him, and more that I feel an emphasised read there is necessary if a hypothetically accurate Dann!scum wagon was going to succeed today

Dann's reaction to the pressure on both Dann and Kage has me leaning scum on him more
I feel like everything he has posted lately has overtly, conveniently been designed for the purpose of making the vote today not land on Dann or Kage

[Klick]

Living to Day 2 means being in 5-2 instead of 6-1 which is good for obvious reasons

I do not get why that’s good

That’s not limlo

I feel like this is dodging the point

I feel like in a Dann/Kage scumteam, Kage getting voted out today is a loss condition for them and Dann knows it

[Klick]

It does feel difficult to get a sustained Kage wagon going. Every time someone votes, I get excited but then it peters out again

I was planning on quickhammering Kage if she got to E-1 earlier today

[Klick]

Also, town casing the person you repped in for seems like an odd thing to do

I did say I could do so but I didn't expect Hu Tao to say yes tbh

[Klick]

Idk if Kage and Dannflor are like complex friendly neighbor neighbors or something but it seems ok to let them cook for 1 day if they've soft claimed *something*
I don't think they will be able to flip a townie and then dictate 2 more eliminations outside themselves because they weren't like limmed today

That's kind of exactly what I'm afraid of though
Something like Drew!town dying today, me dying tomorrow, and then ELo

[Klick]

But if Kage can be talked down as an elimination today, I don't see why she wouldn't be talked down as an elimination tomorrow when scum have more thread control

PEdit: I feel like ELos are a lot harder than most people give them credit for
'Just vote Dannflor out at ELo' is definitely not just a given even if it seems obvious to several people at the time

[Klick]

I keep coming back to 112 and then 203 and then 224

it just very much feels like the brand of AtE that comes from scum who desperately believes they haven't done anything scummy

This doesn't feel like a natural conclusion to take from these posts

i say this in the most respectful way possible,

I do not think it will be hard for me if I ever roll scum against you because I think you have a tendency to be very susceptible to a certain brand of tone-posting

For what it's worth, I am learning! I want to townread May off her tone right now but am refraining

[Klick]

I want more reads from you Drew

What does your list look like rn

What are the Lady around these parts?

Hu
Black

CSF
JV
Klick
May

Dann
Kage

Klick would have been higher before, ironically, the point Dann just made. But I think Dann and Kage are more scummy, and my waffling on May continues since I don't seriously think Dann and Cage are partnered and could see May with one of them

JV is null lime

We have identical reads, except I don't feel confident about Black's alignment

Talk to me about Black

[Klick]

This is very CSF-town

[Klick]

I am loving these hot takes I started a trend
Does anyone else have anything spicy to share

[Klick]

My memory of hot cheetos from at least 15 years ago is that they are physically painful

I will take an extra toasted Cheez-It though

[Klick]

i don’t see why i would ever realistically choose this angle of play as hypothetical scum with kage

I do not think the intangible thread control benefit of making it to day 2 with 2 scum alive is worth the hole i’d be digging for myself right now

What exactly would you do

differently

[Klick]

I was also going to write a post asking Black to talk more about May being town

[Klick]

I don't even think you'll tell me if I guess it

I promise to tell you my main account after your guess regardless of correctness, and you can trust that because at least one player knows, which is both someone to enforce the promise, and also the reason I'm not super super interested in information asymmetry about my main account in the lobby

Omg hi friend!

[Klick]

Klick, please do something towny: (

I thought you thought I was doing towny stuff!

Bella and I have just had TWO DIFFERENT blowouts on our way to Eastermeet. I wanted to post some this evening but that's probably not happening.

[Klick]

V/LA 2 days

I might post a little bit during that time but not loads

[Klick]

I think May is town
I want to kill Dann and Kage and then maybe Black and win the game
If you need to add me to that list to feel satisfied then go for it

[Klick]

Pooky I'm having a rough day. Can you tell me a joke

[Klick]

Is Kage at E-2? I thought she was at E-3

My opinion is explicitly that Kage is likely scum

[Klick]

I currently think Dann is scum in this game Pooky

[Klick]

Because of a possibly erroneous belief that people will be more inclined to vote for Kage when the wagon is smaller than when it's larger
At first I wanted Kage to reach E-1 so I could hammer it, I said as much earlier

[Klick]

What do you want to talk about Kage

[Klick]

I'm going to be playing Blood on the Clocktower in a minute but maybe we can talk at some point today?

[Klick]

I roleblocked Dann last night, sorry Dann

VOTE: dannflor

Hahahaha gg

I think we should massclaim to make sure there isn't another explanation for no-kill but yeah Dann just makes sense as the answer

I'm VT

[Klick]

I think massclaim is correct here even if Dann isn't scum fwiw

[Klick]

That's good enough

[Klick]

We're waiting for Drew as well aren't we

[Klick]

Though with May confirming Drew as town, he could just claim whether or not he can stop kills

[Klick]

VOTE: Pooky

[Klick]

So the options are:
- Dann scum
- scum chose not to kill

[Klick]

VOTE: Dannflor

[Klick]

The only votes today are csf and Dann

There's a 1% chance it's a different mafia that is informed that the setup has a role blocker

But even then it could just also be Dann, I go submitted no kill, and is frustrated by a ridiculous sequence of events

The crackpot alternative to the obvious explanation that my mind gave me before Hu claimed was that Hu was ALSO a Roleblocker, claimed it to Dann in the neighbourhood, blocked me, and Dann no-killed, explaining why his tactic here was to deny being blocked and claiming VT

[Klick]

Who taown

[Klick]

bloop

[Klick]

...

[Klick]

Looool sorry Dann

[Klick]

GG and Datisi is lovely ofc

[Klick]

O/