Micro Normal 1102: ootmgoat [game over!]

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Duelist Kage

[DragonEater70]

Also I was about to note that I have FINALLY rolled scum with Black but then I saw this:

seriously

claiming scum with another player is against the rules.

Why you gotta ruin my fun, Datisi

(for the record, I am scum with Black. But like, only in my imagination)

[DragonEater70]

Dumb read #3

If Gimli is scum he's trying to make me, his hypothetical scum partner, look unaligned with him.

Pedit: wtf mindmeld with Gimli

[DragonEater70]

Hi Kay! Hyped to finally play together!

I have a locktown on page 1 and I'm not sorry

What did you read as AI?

[DragonEater70]

Gotcha.

I am trying out a new strategy this game of being stingy with townreads (based on a post by Dannflor in my Mafia Discussion thread), so I am going to say that this thought process is NAI (but I still wanna townread you deep inside. Being stingy with townreads is HARD).

[DragonEater70]

Oh wow Dannflor is in this game. So I can get live coaching from him on this.

[DragonEater70]

Oh wow Dannflor is in this game. So I can get live coaching from him on this.

Wait, where do I sign up for coaching?! I’m sure everyone knows I need it lol

That was actually a joke lol

But if you're town I could teach you how to fail at reading Black. I am probably the best at misreading Black.

[DragonEater70]

Dannflor locktown

I may or may not have posted this only to annoy him

[DragonEater70]

Gotcha.

I am trying out a new strategy this game of being stingy with townreads (based on a post by Dannflor in my Mafia Discussion thread), so I am going to say that this thought process is NAI (but I still wanna townread you deep inside. Being stingy with townreads is HARD).

What made you want to try this new strat

The discussion that took place on how to have higher read accuracy

[DragonEater70]

May feels like town

???

[DragonEater70]

I want to townread him because he's trying to solve early and seemingly low-efforting/vibing in a fun towny way, but both that reasoning and the low efforting/vibing are not really unfakable IMO.

[DragonEater70]

Also I am kinda doubtful he'd lock town me this early but I am not sure WHY I am doubtful of that because I KNOW he has locktowned me early in the past. But also as scum he'd be aware of this and intentionally locktown me to imitate his town game. Which is why I'm like pretty meh on the whole thing.

[DragonEater70]

Meh meaning NAI/neutral, not scumlean. To be clear.

[DragonEater70]

Dannflor I'd respond to post 40 on what exactly I meant regarding the vibe bur tbh I think there are things where my brain just isn't able to create a response that would make sense to anyone that's not me. So instead I will just say "I understand what pinged you about Gimli and it also pinged me and that's why I'm not townreading him ATM and considering voting him".

Pedit: I do believe Gimli really thinks I'm an easy townread. Also yeah what Black said is probably right regarding what exactly I meant by low effort.

Anyway I think I right now have a legit townread on Black and a "I want to townread" feeling on Dannflor and Gimli. This could be just cause they're actively posting but right now I think they're both >rand town.

Let's just hope this is one of the rare games I read Black correctly, because I think my read accuracy of her is really really bad.

[DragonEater70]

Hu Tao can you stop deliberately doing NAI stuff and start doing AI stuff?

[DragonEater70]

Everyone else are not deliberately doing NAI things but are deliberately doing AI things

[DragonEater70]

I like to soeedrun through RVS and you should know that by now.

[DragonEater70]

I like to soeedrun through RVS and you should know that by now.

I killed RVS and you should thank me for it btw (I hate it)

Thanks Gimli! <3

Do you feel confident enough to read me if I start?

No, but it's still better than you posting intentionally NAI content.

[DragonEater70]

Please!

[DragonEater70]

Wow amazing so fake I love it

[DragonEater70]

Do you have any reads

[DragonEater70]

Wait are you from an anime? Which one?

[DragonEater70]

Also are you gonna duel me or not? Cause if not I have better people to vote

[DragonEater70]

Okay she's doing her catchup

Am hyped.

[DragonEater70]

My vote on DK has become serious.

Quick heads up to DK: I'm ignoring your meta completely as you are playing under an alt and I am going to presume you'd be playing differently. If this is wrong feel free to let me know and also feel free to ignore this part of the post.

[DragonEater70]

Oh, is that why you made that thread? So you can waffle on whether you're townreading people or not? "I'm not townreading you because of This Discussion Thread (but actually I'm townreading you)

No. I made that question because I wanted to improve my read accuracy.

[DragonEater70]

Wow this game is going to be hell. I'd greatly appreciate it on a personal level if you tone it down.

[DragonEater70]

Which part, Kay?

[DragonEater70]

Then in this case I will say they are sarcastic. Unless you think a game with 5 scum and 4 town is possible.

[DragonEater70]

Wow this game is going to be hell. I'd greatly appreciate it on a personal level if you tone it down.

??? This directed at me? If so, sorry, I'm just playing around, not trying to be hurtful.

Yes it was directed at you

I acceot your apology though.

[DragonEater70]

Yeah I'm not TRing DK at all for this... uh, let's call it a "stylish catch up". Hence the vote becoming serious. Ivd really appreciate you jumping on the wagon, Gimli.

[DragonEater70]

Then in this case I will say they are sarcastic. Unless you think a game with 5 scum and 4 town is possible.

You tell me

It's not

Kay wanna help a friend out and vote DK? I'll bribe you with chocolates (for legal reasons, this is a joke and I will not in fact bribe her with chocolates. Please no modkill Datisi).

is duelist kage a secret alt

Yeah

[DragonEater70]

Yeah I'm not TRing DK at all for this... uh, let's call it a "stylish catch up". Hence the vote becoming serious. Ivd really appreciate you jumping on the wagon, Gimli.

I wanna find the townies and not jump on any wagons for now but I see what you're saying

Wut

How do you "find the townies" without forcing some AI content to happen

[DragonEater70]

(i.e. by voting n stuff)

[DragonEater70]

Okay page 5 herosolve in my next post

[DragonEater70]

It's Duelist Kage and Gimli as the scum team.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Gimli

I will switch back to DK if anyone wants to help me push her since I am 1.6 times as much confident on her as I am confident on Gimli. Also Gimli if you want me to unvote all you have to do is vote DK.

[DragonEater70]

I disagree

I am not putting a vote for the sake of ressure, I am putting a vote for the sake of a vote. When a player is at E-2, for instance, then they react a certain way and it doesn't matter if these votes are there because the voters are SURE the player is scum or just because of process of elimination. A vote is a vote.

Pedit: I have no idea what that pic means.

[DragonEater70]

Ugh I give up, you lot are not even interested in playing this game it seems, aside from Dannflor and Black (and CSF, who btw is town)

VOTE: Duelist Kage

Hope Black joins when she's back / Dann joins if he doesn't get momentum on Gimli.

[DragonEater70]

I should probably explain my reads before I go to sleep and probably completely forget about the reasons when I wake up:

DK scumread:

Cool, still being honest about the reads being dumb. I guess it's kinda townie for you to throw out reads like this, but I don't think it's AI for Dragon.

I don't think the above statement is made in good faith. I don't know that I've ever done anything similar as scum and I may have it as town so saying it's not AI for me is like completely random and is thrown there either to make the appearance of analysis, to discredit a townread (if Gimli is town), or just as distancing from Gimli (if he scum). The townread of Gimli is also BAD because Gimli is known for throwing townreads like this as scum and DK should know that. So this could be TMI (if Gimli is town). This is btw the only post that DK has made that's even close to AI, everything else is pure fluff.

CSF townread: I've seen CSF play scum in several games recently (Large Normal 244, Large Normal 246), and her posting felt lifeless and depressed as if she didn't really want to play. Maybe it's based on RL in part but I do get the impression CSF doesn't like to play scum and/or is burnt out from playing scum. In this game her posting has a zing to it which makes me feel she's enjoying the game and I do think that's town indicative for her because of the aforementioned persumed dislike for playing scum recently (CSF feel free to correct me on this and/or add extra information regarding this).

Black townread: Maybe weak reaosning but I liked her liking my own thought process. It felt genuine.

Gimli read: i am not scumreading Gimli I'm just frustrated that he's not playing the game.

Dann read: Idk I don't feel Dann has done something especially alignment indicative so far but he's kinda nulltown by default

Everyone else no read since they refuse to play the game.

[DragonEater70]

the wink wink nudge nudge secret meta reads are not fun to decipher

Who posted anything like that? I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who knows Kage's identity and I didn't really do any meta read of her (aside from saying she should know Gimli's meta, which just trust me on this).

[DragonEater70]

Sorry you're right

[DragonEater70]

Well

That was posted after 108, but fine. In my defense, Kage implied she knew me by saying "this is not AI for dragon". But her saying it in bad faith would be valid no matter her identity cause it's just wrong? Like you could say it's NAI in general but how do you come up with a read that says that something I've never done before is NAI for me. That's made up meta.

[DragonEater70]

And it’s not like duelist commented on some out-there gambit or something, it was literally just you throwing reads out there early

That's literally not the post I'm talking about though?

Ugh whatever I'm just going to shut up. I need to sleep anyway.

[DragonEater70]

Hu Tao can you stop deliberately doing NAI stuff and start doing AI stuff?

Hu Tao can you stop deliberately doing NAI stuff and start doing AI stuff?

Why? It is literally 1.5 pages in? And why ask me this over everyone else?

Everyone else are not deliberately doing NAI things but are deliberately doing AI things

Do you feel confident enough to read me if I start?

I don't like this sequence from Hu. She seems overly defensive in response to Dragon telling her to do stuff. Then she questions Dragon's confidence in reading her which to me feels like she's trying to sow doubt in his mind

Why was this your first thought instead of me trying to get a read on dragon?

Not Black but if it helps I also didn't feel like you were trying to get a read on me. And I'm a little surprised you'd be expecting to grt something AI from how I answer the question of whether I'm confident on reading you.
Anyway, since you claim to be townreading me, care to explain why?

[DragonEater70]

Well I just looked over Kay's scum game and I don't think I can confidently toss her in the town bin yet

rereading naerys vs hu tao and it just feels like two townies who desperately believe they are Correct

If this becomes the majority consensus, I better start rereading this thread because I focused way too much of my energy on figuring out who I believed on the Hu vs Naerys drama just to realize I should’ve been paying more attention to psyche’s read on NAS or the 3 votes on gera that happened in quick succession.

Oh and like idk

What is stopping you just clicking psyche’s ISO or the post i just quoted and seeing what you think about it right now?

it feels performative to talk about all the work you gotta do or that you might have to do or that you should’ve done before because if you’re town and genuinely interested in solving, i don’t get why your energies aren’t just focused on doing the solving now

pedit: drew (titus’ predecessor) made posts! What do you think of those??

I can’t do anything about you thinking I’m being “performative”, that’s just how I express myself. And it seems a big unfair to assume I’m not focused on solving things, I’ve been giving this game a lot of my attention. Some things I felt more strongly about and that’s where my attention went. If things I wasn’t giving as much thought to begin to gain steam, I’m just being honest when I say I need to take a better look.

You seem to be jumping on everything I do trying to find a reason to sus me. Yeah, that’s the game, I get it, sus everyone but honestly, it’s getting a bit

exhausting

. I don’t even have a scum read on you, if anything, being cautious about me is normal as it would be for anyone. I didn’t think anything of it at first. I still think you’re probably more likely town but whatever problem you seem to have with me might get in the way of us working together.

Maybe I’m just overreacting right now because I just worked 59 hours in the past 4 days and I’m mentally drained and still trying to have fun playing this game. I’ll try not to overthink on this since I don’t think pushing back against you is helping us.

I found this little bit of emotional response. I bolded the word "exhausting" because it seemed noteworthy that the same terminology was used here

I also noticed Kay talked about not knowing anyone's meta several times in that game and even used it as a reason for not having good reads. We've seen a bit of that here already

I haven't had the chance to look at her town game to compare and I don't think I'll get the chance tonight

Yeah I think that AtE is likely NAI for her (don't think it's scummy because in her completed town game she was also similarly frustrated for being scunread).
I do think using AtE instead of solving might be scummy though because in her town game she solved even though she didn't know anybody's meta. (note: I jist went back to verify this and on the first few pages her solving does appear to be minimal, so it makes the read slightly weaker, but IME minimal solving is different than no solving when you use it as an alignmnet tell. So that's a scumlean more than a full-fledged scumread)

VOTE: Kay

[DragonEater70]

So Black and CSF are we towncoring or whatttt

[DragonEater70]

@Black - I'm not like, townreading Hu Tao right now, but I've been in enough games with her to know that this kind of awkward posting is not really scum indicative IMO.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Gimli

[DragonEater70]

also I do agree DE's posts are bad. I still think they're bad in a towny way but I can maybe see this being scum.

I kinda liked how hu tao defended herself

Wow. You know something, I have had ENOUGH of hearing how it's "towny" for me to have "bad posts", EVERY SINGLE GAME. I have had enough of hearing about how I sound awkward but that that doesn't mean I'm scum because "I always sound awkward as town", EVERY SINGLE GAME.

I don't fucking care if you disagree with my posts this game (except you don't, you townread Black and CSF just as much as I do), but DON'T say my posts are fucking bad every game. I was the only person who not only had you as Kira but also RR as follower last game. And in my previous town game I literally found both scum by freaking page 3 and held on to that read for a while (yes I gave it up in the end because it felt "too easy", but still). So for the love of god I don't want to hear about how my posts are bad when I am town EVER AGAIN.

And your progression on me is trash. You claimed I was a locktown earlier. If you really believed that you wouldn't be voting me just cause I made a "bad case" on Duelist Kage or cause I "fired a warning shot" (I did not in fact fire a warning shot, May is misinterpreting that post, but I am not going to argue on that cause then it goes into "wink wink nudge nudge" meta stuff). Ehat exactly is bad about my posts? Townreading Black? Townreading CSF? Not immediately locktowning you because you locktowned me? Bullshit.

[DragonEater70]

I never said your posts were bad when you're town, mate. I said your posts are bad here. this last post to me for instance is overly emotional and a little hypocritical cause you're voting me and you're overreacting to me voting you as if it's some kind of insult.

as I said I'll solve in a bit, maybe I shouldn't immediately post my reactions as soon as I woke up

The reaction is to calling it towny not to the vote. Then I also saw the vote and wrote about that.

[DragonEater70]

Yes you are saying it's towny for me to have bad posts. Are you saying it's only towny for me to have bad posts this specific game and not in general?

[DragonEater70]

Something about this AtE feels bad

I'm just freaking annoyed at the amount of "yeah dragon is always this awkward" I have been seeing lately. Actually it's probably not Gimli's fault.

[DragonEater70]

I never said your posts were bad when you're town, mate. I said your posts are bad here. this last post to me for instance is overly emotional and a little hypocritical cause you're voting me and you're overreacting to me voting you as if it's some kind of insult.

as I said I'll solve in a bit, maybe I shouldn't immediately post my reactions as soon as I woke up

The reaction is to calling it towny not to the vote. Then I also saw the vote and wrote about that.

but like, you're one of my favorite players, I never insulted your towngame, and I didn't say you make bad posts when you're town. I'm talking about this game only.

as I said to dannflor, you're

sweaty

here. I never saw you act like this, and I never saw you being scum, so maybe this is it?

Okay, I apologize for the outburst then. I just really hated the idea that my posts are "towny bad posts" and that actually doesn't have anything to do with you.

[DragonEater70]

Yes you are saying it's towny for me to have bad posts. Are you saying it's only towny for me to have bad posts this specific game and not in general?

when have I ever called your posts bad, even, ever?

I said they were maybe bad in a towny way in this game specifically cause they are coming off as very much all over the place in a way I have never seen you act before.

god

I'm back later

Okay.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Gimli

What was the reason for this?

Not townreading Gimli, I could see what Dannflor and Hu Tao were scumreading about him and even though I didn't really agree I felt like voting him and supporting that wagon wasn't an awful idea. His turn on me shortly after I voted him feels like he's probably scum so I'm leaving my vote there.

[DragonEater70]

I never said your posts were bad when you're town, mate. I said your posts are bad here. this last post to me for instance is overly emotional and a little hypocritical cause you're voting me and you're overreacting to me voting you as if it's some kind of insult.

as I said I'll solve in a bit, maybe I shouldn't immediately post my reactions as soon as I woke up

The reaction is to calling it towny not to the vote. Then I also saw the vote and wrote about that.

Did you really read post 199, write two paragraphs, then read page top, then add a third paragraph to your post connected by "and"?

No

I read post 199, started writing the first paragraph, in the middle of it saw the vote, and continued writing.

[DragonEater70]

Also, it's a lot of emotion towards someone you were voting at the time

???

[DragonEater70]

Yeah I do :shrug:

[DragonEater70]

My intention with that post wasn't to get townread, it was to vent. So frankly idc if you scumread me for it. Actually I am kinda happy if you scunread me for it because that means you expect me to post good posts as town rather than bad posts.

[DragonEater70]

Also, it's a lot of emotion towards someone you were voting at the time

???

Belief that another player is scum decreases one's emotional reactions towards that player.

This is one of those things where I don't know the geometry proof but just seemed to be true the last 15 years I played mafia

That's definitely not true for me at least? I could probably grab a few examples of me reacting emotionally to my scumreads / being annoyed with my scumreads' behavior.

[DragonEater70]

Additionally as I have just stated, I didn't really have a scumread on Gimli as much as feeling he's the best vote at that moment.

[DragonEater70]

My intention with that post wasn't to get townread, it was to vent. So frankly idc if you scumread me for it. Actually I am kinda happy if you scunread me for it because that means you expect me to post good posts as town rather than bad posts.

https://xkcd.com/123/

Hm?

[DragonEater70]

Okay then

[DragonEater70]

I dunno

Why are you a good vote?

[DragonEater70]

I wanna give Klick a high five because even though we spent 0 minutes being players in this game together, we had perfect mindmeld ever since he repped in.

Also apologies for the repout.

[DragonEater70]

I will also thank Datisi for modding. Thank you!

[DragonEater70]

O/

O/

[DragonEater70]

I feel like I must have a skewed idea of Dragon's meta because everyone is talking like he isn't very very good as scum

Wanted to ask about this, a lot less exciting since you were scum and probably just lying but am I correct to interpret this as you thinking I'm very very good at scum?

I'm asking because I'm really not that good at scum, and it's a common misconception that I am, and I would like to rectify it.

[DragonEater70]

well, i was arguing that point bc i needed your slot to be a viable miselim

Yeah I thought so. But the thing is I'm like never a viable miselim and I kinda think you became obvscum due to trying to argue that.

but i think you have the capabilities for a much bigger range than you let on and people reading you by meta are going to get hurt by that eventually

You're probably right, I do have that capability, but it requires being a lot more invested in a game and putting a lot more effort than I'm currently able to (or maybe I'm just telling that to myself cause I'm lazy, lol). Though I've had a bit of a streak of town games so maybe next time I roll scum I'll get excited about it again and then boom I'll showcase a more extended scum range.

[DragonEater70]

Also @DK - my read on you this game was 0% meta. I genuinely think you should have known better than TRing Gimli for something within his scumrange and I genuinely thought your approach to me was scummy, and neither was a meta on you - just an evaluation of your reads.

[DragonEater70]

Why?

I left the game because it wasn't good for my mental health. Is it asinine that I'm not using a lot of words to talk about why I replaced out? I've already made apologies in private to the people I feel I behaved improperly towards.

[DragonEater70]

Ok

[DragonEater70]

A. I don't intend to say my scum range is that small lol, I just know that I've been mislimmed like 2-3 times and each time it was when I was doing something really stupid like self voting or lurking or goading people into voting me, but you're right that I wasn't in the game and able to defend myself so that's invalid. Completely fair point.

B. I'm not sure not saying pushing the slot was the worst mistake you made but I do think your approach to it was pretty scummy. That's just my two cents though as someone who didn't know your alignment and did know mine, maybe others saw it differently. Like I hope you don't take this as overly critical of your scum game, more as constructive feedback, but I felt your level of confidence felt fake wrt to the worldview you were presenting, and also the timing of the push (when there was nobody in the slot) was overtly opportunistic, that's all.