Large Normal 247 - Postgame

[Little Will o' Wisp]

[insert cool and creative entrance here]

[Little Will o' Wisp]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

VOTE: Snow

[Little Will o' Wisp]

Whatchu Talkin Bout Gypyx?

[Little Will o' Wisp]

UNVOTE: Snow

A few takeaways from the flashwagon:

• There's approximately a 0% chance the wagon is scum free.
  
• Thomit is just town. This is my "page 2 townread" of the game.
  
• "Wagon bad, WTF everyone!" is such an easy and predictable response that I believe that at least one off-wagon scum made it. (One of Naerys, Kay, Oblivion)
  
• I believe Dave when he says he didn't read page 2 before voting. That doesn't mean he's town, it only means a page 2 execution wasn't his objective.

note to self: read the 2nd page first

I don't think it's a bad thing to hit an E-1 like that, it will certainly provide good material.

What material? A Poisoned Well Opening to the game? Town or Scum, what player reacts within normal ranges to almost dying before ever hitting the thread? Do you think yourself so enlightened in the ways of player mentality that you will be able to discern town confusion and outrage from the scum variant? It doesn't think anyone can, reliably, and rather thinks that most natural responses from a player in that slot will be traditionally seen as scummy.

It dislikes the very idea. There's no foundation to base the reaction off of, so there's no baseline to test against.

I think the usefulness of the flashwagon is entirely about

everyone else's

reaction to the wagon, not Snow's own reaction.

obliving sure says a lot of words but i'm not sure if it makes it town yet

i'm kinda curious about how Penguin following usual penguin meta makes him more likely town when like, sheeping on a page 1 wagon is not the hardest thing in the world

It isn't meta, but rather a mental model. It attempts to make models of player behaviour by playing with and understanding how they will react situationally. It seeks to understand, then apply these lessons by asking itself to think within that mental model, and whether the response makes sense or if there is an outside influence that is affecting that response, then seeking motivation from being in that Model.

Having played precisely one game with Penguin, as it being scum, it got to see much of how Penguin approaches a game. It thinks that the teasing, off the cuff but effective manner in which Penguin approached his vote fits within its model of him and so it sees him most strongly as town from that.

Here is a question in return for you. If indeed the creation and reaction to these wagons are indicative of finding scum and town and sorting alignments, why is its method less effective than yours? What methods are you using, and from these interactions who is town or scum to you?

I think the human psyche is hard to understeand, and a sample size of one seems prone for mistakes and such

specifically, i'm looking for reactions that are hard to fake / scum failing to fail a reaction, willow in my opinions fits into this category as he made a sheep onto the wagon while also showing uneasiness around it, a pretty contradictory mindset, and one telling he's afraid of acting "wrong" (this is based on the shrug emoji for instance)

I wasn't scared. I never believed the wagon would actually lead to an execution.

murder willow sounds like a very awesome tree that i would like to plant in my backyard.

Same, actually.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

come murder willow with me Hu Tao

That be fair actually, after the last game I played with Tao. -_-

[Little Will o' Wisp]

specifically, i'm looking for reactions that are hard to fake / scum failing to fail a reaction, willow in my opinions fits into this category as he made a sheep onto the wagon while also showing uneasiness around it, a pretty contradictory mindset, and one telling he's afraid of acting "wrong" (this is based on the shrug emoji for instance)

I'm reading this paragraph over and over. I don't get it. How is what I did "failing to fail" a reaction?

And what do you mean "for instance"? The shrug emoticon is the only thing I besides voting.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

"Wagon bad, WTF everyone!" is such an easy and predictable response that I believe that at least one off-wagon scum made it. (One of Naerys, Kay, Oblivion)

I dont like the way you are mocking our response to the speedwagon.

Ok, I'll rephrase that bullet point:

• The notion that that speedwagon is harmful for the town is both 1. easy to come up with; and 2. would feel natural coming from anyone off the speedwagon. Therefore, it is likery that at least one off-wagon scum would bring it forth to appeal to likeminded townies.

Is this better?

[Little Will o' Wisp]

This is extremely self-conscious behaviour, both in the feeling like your entrance isn't good enough...

That was a joke. I was joking about how I can't think of any entrance. It was a callback to my first game on the site where I also couldn't think of any entrance. You were a player on that game.

... and you adding a shrug emoji basically means you join the wagon without actually being on board with it, something that's more likely for scum to do

I was fully on board with the wagon. The shrug meant "why not?".

[Little Will o' Wisp]

You know what your wallpost was exactly? Easy to come up with, would feel natural coming from someone and therefore it is likely that at least one scum would bring it forth to appeal to likeminded townies

Did you just "no u" me?

[Little Will o' Wisp]

Obviously a shitpost but I do not like that post, both the one you just made and your wallpost

Ok

[Little Will o' Wisp]

"Wagon bad, WTF everyone!" is such an easy and predictable response that I believe that at least one off-wagon scum made it. (One of Naerys, Kay, Oblivion)

I dont like the way you are mocking our response to the speedwagon.

Ok, I'll rephrase that bullet point:

• The notion that that speedwagon is harmful for the town is both 1. easy to come up with; and 2. would feel natural coming from anyone off the speedwagon. Therefore, it is likery that at least one off-wagon scum would bring it forth to appeal to likeminded townies.

Is this better?

What is the point of this post?

I felt Nearys was dismissing my post by hiding behind the "mockery", so I rephrased to get rid of the excuse.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

still wanna murder willow

Gypyx is town.

Scum!Gypyx would've come up with a new reason to keep suspecting me.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

VOTE: Naerys

[Little Will o' Wisp]

what did willow do to get so many votes?

Beats me.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

If not me, you should vote Naerys.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

For clarity, these are the posts Gypyx is talking about:

[insert cool and creative entrance here]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

VOTE: Snow

[Little Will o' Wisp]

So... I'm under suspicion for defending myself from suspicion?

[Little Will o' Wisp]

No comment.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

I still think one of Naerys, Kay and Oblivion is scum for their response to the Snow wagon. And Naerys is the only one of those three who commented on it (when she complained about my mocking tone).

I tried to pick a fight with Naerys, but unfortunately she declined to give me one.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

I still think one of Naerys, Kay and Oblivion is scum for their response to the Snow wagon. And Naerys is the only one of those three who commented on it (when she complained about my mocking tone).

I tried to pick a fight with Naerys, but unfortunately she declined to give me one.

Do you think Naerys declining to "pick a fight" with you is alignment indicative?

No. She would be a lot easier to read if she did, that's why it's unfortunate.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

@Willow why do you think Naerys is scum?

I explained it all already. I'm convinced one of the Mafia spoke against the Snow flashwagon at the beginning. And Naerys is the only one that acknowledged my point when I brought it up, when she tried to dismiss it.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

... but also i dont like Wisp himself and the way he "suspects" me

Every time you talk about my suspicion, you just say "I don't like it" and leaves it at that.

Can you go into more detail?

[Little Will o' Wisp]

Has anyone played with NAS when he’s town? Does he do the same thing? I only have one game with him so I’m worried about being too confident his day 1 actions are AI. Though now that there are multiple votes on him, maybe he’ll appear and say something helpful.

I played. And yes, he did the same thing as town.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

@Willow why do you think Naerys is scum?

I explained it all already. I'm convinced one of the Mafia spoke against the Snow flashwagon at the beginning. And Naerys is the only one that acknowledged my point when I brought it up, when she tried to dismiss it.

So the "scum spoke against the flashwagon" is more of a rule of thumb if i understeand correctly?

Maybe. I'm still confident in it, though.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

2 days remaining. I feel a deadline scramble coming up.

I'm a Vanilla Townie.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

And what does it tell?

[Little Will o' Wisp]

That Snow doesn't think NotAS is scum at this moment.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

...

Willow why DID you claim already?

The game was stale. It was clear that we were ready to move from Day 1.

Above all I wanted to avoid executing a PR, or forcing a PR to claim. I claimed it myself so that the town know there's a safe option to end the day.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

Particularly, I thought NotAS might be a PR and wanted to avoid him having to claim. But after this post, I don't think he is a PR anymore:

I feel like claiming VT randomly does not help scum!willow at all.

Strange feeling you got there when you should be feeling the opposite. Claiming VT under no pressure doesn't help town and town!willow.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

I'm having flashbacks.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

Yeah, I don't think NotAS will flip scum. Is it really too late to execute Naerys?

[Little Will o' Wisp]

Maybe.

VOTE: Dave

[Little Will o' Wisp]

So, we'll just let Naerys get away with not responding to anything?

VOTE: Naerys

[Little Will o' Wisp]

Dave, what do you think of Naerys?

[Little Will o' Wisp]

Sounds like she got personally offended by your comment.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

"Wagon bad, WTF everyone!" is such an easy and predictable response that I believe that at least one off-wagon scum made it. (One of Naerys, Kay, Oblivion)

I dont like the way you are mocking our response to the speedwagon.

This Scumteam may be incompetent.

Virgo clearly is low info kill
this comment doesnt sit well with me
VOTE: Nurse

Same energy.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

A little voice whispers in the back of my head, Willow.

It tells me you may be trying to manipulate me into going after Naerys.

I spoke with the voice and it told me I should consider tearing into you within 12 hours. Haven't made up my mind yet.

Well... I am certainly trying to convince you to vote Naerys with me.

[Little Will o' Wisp]

I never played with Naerys before, so I can't compare her meta. But in this very game she felt the need to express her disdain towards me when I "mocked" her. So she's the type of person who would do just that.

Picture this: Nearys read the first few posts of Day 2. She internally reacted to your taunt, but couldn't verbalise it for obvious reasons. It was weighing on her mind though, so she talked about it negatively in a roundabout way. This is something she posted on a whim (merely 2 minutes after her last post), so she hasn't had time to consider that ignoring it would be the best option.

Too unthinkable?

[Little Will o' Wisp]

(there's also the way she reacted towards Snow's flashwagon, a position I still hold since no one has tried to argue against it yet)