open 910 - a series of extremely codependent relationships i {game overrr)

[Black]

But you also think WL is towny and you want to flip them.

Or you're not protesting anyway

Tbf they kinda covered that in 239

[Black]

Did you not understand my issue and why I called it a contradiction?

Both what Sunflower and what Blood said could be construed as a dumb tell, yet Enchant only called one out.

Admittedly saying Sunflower was dumb telling especially since it was the first real 'read' of the game made me think Enchant was town, but how they, and now you', are dancing around Blood seems sketch to me.

You are right, I don't understand your issue. What blood said is not a dumbtell, at least not by my definition; that would require blood to say something mechanically false which just didn't happen.

Btw, what do you rekon scum!we are shadowly doing here? Is blood our buddy?
~b

Well it wasn't 'we', it was Enchant. And this isn't an argument about whether Blood, or Sunflower, was dumb telling or not.

Enchant called out Jupiter(Sunflower) for a perceived dumb tell, but not Blood for something that can definitely be called a dumb tell.

Ok Drew trolling at this point.

We can go 1vs1 in this case.

VOTE: Drew

~ Wizard Enchanticus

I don't think Enchant actually believes Drew is scum here. And I especially don't think the read is strong enough to declare a 1v1. This reaction seems over the top

[Sunflower]

But you also think WL is towny and you want to flip them.

Or you're not protesting anyway

this setup is only won if town can consolidate on a scum elim. if WL is town then a lot of people suspect them and if things don't change in people's reads, it will be difficult for town to consolidate and agree anywhere. therefore them flipping is not necessarily bad for our chances of winning the game

the same logic doesn't apply to you

[BloodB0t]

Ok makes sense.

[Doctor Drew]

Ok makes sense.

viewtopic.php?t=92139

Blood, you said you wanted some scum games from me right? Here is one, when home on my laptop I will dig up some more if you want.

Black was also in this game as town, she said she has trouble reading me, but I thought I remember her pretty much on me as scum that game(even had me fooled thinking that she town read me lol), so I feel like she would at least be ok at reading me here.

[Black]

Ok makes sense.

viewtopic.php?t=92139

Blood, you said you wanted some scum games from me right? Here is one, when home on my laptop I will dig up some more if you want.

Black was also in this game as town, she said she has trouble reading me, but I thought I remember her pretty much on me as scum that game(even had me fooled thinking that she town read me lol), so I feel like she would at least be ok at reading me here.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

[Doctor Drew]

Ok makes sense.

viewtopic.php?t=92139

Blood, you said you wanted some scum games from me right? Here is one, when home on my laptop I will dig up some more if you want.

Black was also in this game as town, she said she has trouble reading me, but I thought I remember her pretty much on me as scum that game(even had me fooled thinking that she town read me lol), so I feel like she would at least be ok at reading me here.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

I mean, you should have a decent idea of my town game as well.

[Black]

What do you think your scum and town tells are?

[BloodB0t]

That's the one game I read. I said you seemed more cautious in it.

[BloodB0t]

Probably should have specified that was the game I read.

[Skygazer]

votecount 1.06

White Lotus (3) - Black, Doctor Drew, BloodB0t
mirrored (1) - Sunflower
BloodB0t (1) - mirrored
Doctor Drew (1) - White Lotus

not voting

(0) -

with six alive, it takes four to bop it. day one ends in (expired on 2024-04-07 13:30:00).

[Doctor Drew]

What do you think your scum and town tells are?

Lol, I guess that is a good question.....though it seems when I feel like I am the most townie I get scum read.

But I guess I am just a hero in my own head

And tbf, I am aware of my perception and have learned to lean into it as scum.

So I would say there is probably more 'fakeness' from my scum game, if you really peel the layers back a bit

[Doctor Drew]

Probably should have specified that was the game I read.

viewtopic.php?t=91997

Here is another, started off in a hydra with Gamma, before they repped out

[Doctor Drew]

viewtopic.php?t=91553

Ironically another 9:12, I am very proud of this game lol

[Doctor Drew]

viewtopic.php?t=90946

Also very proud, overall, of this Booney Tunez game

[Black]

I don't keep track of people's meta like that. It's not like I have an MS filing cabinet with everyone's tells. My brain doesn't work that way. I feel like I have a grasp on certain tells from certain people but even those can be fuzzy

I don't really think meta is all that reliable. It hits every now and then but generally I feel like it's overused. Sometimes it's hard not to use it when the tell seems strong but the first time you're wrong about it it's like...welp...

[Black]

What's your read on me Drew

[Doctor Drew]

What's your read on me Drew

Prob town

The only thing that gives me a slight pause is you coming across as town leader a bit, like trying to control the line of questioning, but that is probably more paranoia than anything.

I do feel like you should get my town game more, at the very least, but again again I understand I come across as a riddle wrapped in an enigma lol

[mirrored]

I haven't read the past few pages but I just wanted to stay I'm here, the downtime for two days was unfortunate.

[mirrored]

I'm done reading up to now. I haven't come online to be able to change my vote (or produce any kind of substance or post, for that matter). I'm having a hard time townreading players because much of the discourse centers on insubstantial material like dumbtells, hyperanalyzing and debating about specific posts at length, vibes/style, and speculating about scum strategy. Especially the last is stupid - we shouldn't trap ourselves in endless WIFOM loops about what scum would do or wouldn't risk doing (the latter amounts to a "too scummy to be scum" argument), especially when there have been no flips or end-of-day wagon counts to inform us. To some extent I have been involved in these discussions, yes, but I haven't jumped to reads as fast as others have, or latched onto any post as a definite or strong tell of alignment. In conclusion, I want to create a set of reads based on repeated behaviors, especially two: how people have created, justified, acted on and changed their reads; and how players have substantially contributed to scumhunting (and less importantly, overall discussion). From this, I intuitively believe I can place 1-2 players as town and find 2-3 suspects for scum. My gut already tells me what I might end up thinking about each player. No guarantees about either of the last two sentences, though. Since people are already asking for me and Sunflower to hammer, I plan to also decide on either hammering, voting someone else or staying where I am based on where my thoughts lead me.

My last note, I use the Sepia theme and will never change.

[White Lotus]

Did you not understand my issue and why I called it a contradiction?

Both what Sunflower and what Blood said could be construed as a dumb tell, yet Enchant only called one out.

Admittedly saying Sunflower was dumb telling especially since it was the first real 'read' of the game made me think Enchant was town, but how they, and now you', are dancing around Blood seems sketch to me.

You are right, I don't understand your issue. What blood said is not a dumbtell, at least not by my definition; that would require blood to say something mechanically false which just didn't happen.

Btw, what do you rekon scum!we are shadowly doing here? Is blood our buddy?
~b

Well it wasn't 'we', it was Enchant. And this isn't an argument about whether Blood, or Sunflower, was dumb telling or not.

Enchant called out Jupiter(Sunflower) for a perceived dumb tell, but not Blood for something that can definitely be called a dumb tell.

Ok Drew trolling at this point.

We can go 1vs1 in this case.

VOTE: Drew

~ Wizard Enchanticus

I don't think Enchant actually believes Drew is scum here. And I especially don't think the read is strong enough to declare a 1v1. This reaction seems over the top

After discussion we decided that Drew is NOT 100% totally mafia.

We still go with 1vs1, because even on that offchance that Drew is town, he does everything to harm our faction. We need every townie to agree to on voting mafia member. Drew obviously too busy trolling and being nuisance. Just to clarify, even i ceased fooling around for this game. That's how you gonna reward me huh?

Besides if he was "hesitated" he would unvote us already, not leaving us at E-1. It's simple words thrown around to look cautious. In particular i believe that Drew is mafia stronger than Bianco does.


I am not interested in continueing this discuss. I acknowlidge that most likely we lose this 1vs1, and you probably still not gonna vote Drew after.

If Drew is town i wish you luck in figuring out where mafia decided to sit. If anything i am ready to compromise of Bloodbot (by compromise i mean i will NOT be that much angry if you vote out Bloodbot next day regardless of what faction Bloodbot will end up being, i am too lazy to start wagon here today and see no point).

~ Wizard Enchanticus

[mirrored]

First, I'll talk about White Lotus, since they're the focal point of the current votes. I won't split this into two sections for each of the two heads, especially when one is more active than the other. I'll admit that I have no experience playing with hydras, but I'll go on anyway. (Yeah, I'm breaking what I said about my experience in an early post of mine, maybe the first? though I was referring mainly to hiding personal matters and playermeta then.)

62 is WL's first substantial post. I don't like the contradiction between disliking dumbtells while making "smarttells" yourself (if I may coin that word). As you might guess from the previous post, though, I can't make much from this beyond that this is a single scum-tilting post. However, they haven't responded to my further questioning in 154 either (correct me if I'm wrong) - the lack of acknowledgment is what really worries me and why my questioning can be taken as successful.

136 (bianco) is a questioning post I like. I wish WL posted more of this and less of engaging in debates I don't really care about. Both B and E have done this, and they've teamed together in debating with Doctor Drew and perhaps other players. Not a good sign. Then 164 expresses suspicion of Black, but WL goes on "1v1ing" Drew in posts such as 175, which revotes him for emphatic effect. The ISO focuses on arguing with Drew rather than defending themselves or pushing another player - even with Drew it's continuing to argue about the dumbtells rather than an authentic, forceful push on him. The one defense post outside the debate with Drew, 185, is too defensive, its rhetoric too aggressive.

WL has made no other posts for me to go off of. According to the post counting feature, they're the second least active player besides me. I'm going to seem like a hypocrite, but the lack of posts is suspicious in connection with the prior paragraph. I think WL is a good candidate to vote then, but I'll see what happens in my next posts.

WL since you're recently online you might reply to this post. The previous paragraphs were written entirely without considering WL's last post - I don't want to edit them to preserve a snapshot of my thoughts, but I'll consider them later. (I'm a bit tired of talking about WL too.)

[White Lotus]

62 is WL's first substantial post. I don't like the contradiction between disliking dumbtells while making "smarttells" yourself (if I may coin that word). As you might guess from the previous post, though, I can't make much from this beyond that this is a single scum-tilting post. However, they haven't responded to my further questioning in 154 either (correct me if I'm wrong) - the lack of acknowledgment is what really worries me and why my questioning can be taken as successful.

The lack of acknowledgement is due to there being nothing that needed acknowledged. I'm not the one you asked, but frankly I fail to see how engaging in (as you call it) "smarttelling" (which in reality is just... stating publicly available mechs) is in any way contradictory with a stated distaste for dumbtells. Ig I can see what do you mean by them being "inverse" behaviours in some sense but... ok, so.

And yes, while I'm personally less convinced then my other head on Drew scumminess, this needs to be a 1v1 at this point. In the off chance that Drew is town, we still wouldn't want both him and us to be alive d2 as there would be nil chance for town to blocvote a scum then
~b

[mirrored]

Sunflower has been interesting (here, mainly meaning contradictory), so I'll go next with them.

31 starts a pattern of reckless, risky play, so such future plays aren't as notable as people make them out to be. The assumption that we can't be partners based on the voting behavior is one such example. (More generally, eliminating potential scumteams based on single tells is unwise for the chance of error in attempting to apply this strategy to multiple candidate scumteams. This is also why my reads are focusing on single players rather than scumteams.)

67 starts Sunflower's most interesting thought pattern though.

optimal play imo is to day 1 lim the person who is town but feels like they have the worst reads or are least agreeable to townblocking bc then it's easier to consolidate day 2

this is mostly a joke

A bizarre post in a similar vein. (I got kind of angry at this, so I wrote an unnecessary refutation. It's here if you want to read it, though it isn't worth much):

If you're so confident in your own reads that you'd eliminate a player because you think they have bad reads, why not just eliminate your scumreads? Why not eliminate a scummy player with bad reads? Why would you assume that such a player you want to "optimally" elim exists in the first place? This might be a joke, but I'm less inclined to think so after similar posts from them.

193, 194 and 195 are also bizarre in themselves, and then they snugly fit 198's conceptualization of how scum will play.

Dumbtells are also a pattern, 66 seems like an almost forced attempt at towniness and innocent, never mind any of this though, as I said before.

My central reason is how Sunflower engages with other players. 70 and 78 deflects from questions by asking the questioner about them, eventually resulting in a weak final response from Sun. 94 parrots Black without advancing the discussion by making their own observations, analysis or content. This is an easy place to pocket her. The unexplained read that is 95 is in a similar vein. They (both heads!) soon pivot to scumreading Black in 102 and 109, while keeping their vote on another player instead of their mutual SR. (The "other player" is me, but I want to dissociate myself from this in my mind while I analyze.) When pressed by 113 to explain the read on Black, we end up again with the near-non-responses 114 and 115. I don't agree with 131, the further explanation, at all. It seems forced and illogical, and refusing to elaborate until asked to is also anti-town. I'm not convinced by his reasons to townread in 132, 191 and 192 either. Reads based on a few posts aren't good and are frankly lazy. It's easy to make a town-seeming post, especially knowing what your intuition will feel is town, but harder to create a pattern that seems town, especially one that keeps changing to keep seeming towny throughout the game. Further, 199 (no one asked) seems forced, though it's not a read. 235 is another reading post I don't agree with, relating to the "too scummy to be scum" point I touched on in the post two of my posts before this one.

i probably shouldn't clear enchant off things like having opinions they care about and pushing for reads but i also am going to do that anyway until i find a reason not to

(Also see 231) Shouldn't this be your best reason to TR someone? Too bad you want WL dead anyway, but can this be connected to the elim strategy posited in

67

in any way? Relating 239 to 67, what would you characterize WL's reads as, and would you be opposed to them? I'm not opposed to voting WL, but Sun's justification for voting them (see also [post]252[/post)] isn't good. Let's just focus on who we SR for now.

In conclusion, I want to vote for Sunflower more than I want to vote WL. This late in the gameday, it's unlikely that Sunflower realistically is voted out, but I'll see what people think of Sun after this post. I'm exhausted and tired so I'll finish my posts tomorrow. I don't intuitively feel the other 3 players are worse than the 2, but I'll also look into them later.

[mirrored]

The spoiler on 67 in the end is a mistake, my bad. Should be the post tags thing