Large Normal 247 - Postgame

[biancospino]

3.10

Votecount 3.10

Gypyx (2): Random Nurse, geraintm
Psyche (2): Titus, Gypyx
Naerys (1): Psyche

Not Voting (6): Oblivion, KayJayQueue, Lycanfire, Snow2697, Naerys, Thomith

With 11 players alive, it takes 6 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-04-17 13:15:36).

Mod Notes: The combined mod ISO is here.

[Gypyx]

Allow me to do my best PenguinPower impression

*ahem*

more votes please !

[KayJayQueue]

So I’m caught up and I’m glad the Gypyx/Thom stuff came out because I wasn’t confident on snow but I was very confident on Thom, and Gypyx was in the middle for me but my fear was if the first flipped town, we’d keep going down the hood list especially with the proposed 1 for 1 and that worried me that it was possibly a distraction that scum was trying to benefit from, yet who stood to benefit most? Those outside of the hood, so I’m looking there. I still don’t know how I feel about Titus but she’s hood so I’m got going to focus hard on her yet. I think the others I feel less good about are Psych and Lycan, mostly based on the previous slot owners. I’ll admit I liked Lycan’s contributions more once he repped in and he felt very solve-y but I can’t be sure that was fully genuine based on how Will’o was playing or if Lycan just did a great job turning around the trajectory of his slot. I still think my earlier reads on naerys are good. I am not sure about RN or gera but I feel better about Gera currently. Oblivion I townread most of this game but has seemed a bit different since the Ranger flip so I’m not sure if it’s just a shift in playstyle with gained confidence that felt jarring to it’s earlier play or if it’s something else.

I’d say I’m here:
Town: Thom, Gypyx
Townlean: Naerys
Slight town: Oblivion, Gera
Unsure: Random Nurse, Snow
Scumleam: Titus, Psyche, Lycan

Sorry for being around less, and i just began my work weekend so until Monday I might be less active but I’ll stay caught up as much as possible.

[KayJayQueue]

With all that said, for now I will be here:

VOTE: Psyche

[Gypyx]

Kay i'll ask you too, what are your reasons for TR'ing oblivion exactly?

[KayJayQueue]

Kay i'll ask you too, what are your reasons for TR'ing oblivion exactly?

I think it was mostly Day 1. Day 2 was not super AI either way for me but it didn’t make me like it wasn’t town. But today it has been very aggressive and has made me feel less good about the townread. I’m not sure if the change was just nailing scum or what but it felt like it was making it seem like it held the power to lim or save Ranger before the lim happened. So I’m having difficulty reading that situation especially after D3 started and it was very adamant it knew the solve going forward. Maybe that’s enough to take the town lean away and be squarely in the middle of my reads.

[Psyche]

ctrl-fing my and pp's names in that kjq post doesn't find any rationale for why im scum

[Psyche]

VOTE: kjq

also, im kinda surprised gypyx still scumreads me!

all of the votes for me are quite mysterious. penguinpower must have been quite the rascal

[KayJayQueue]

VOTE: kjq

also, im kinda surprised gypyx still scumreads me!

all of the votes for me are quite mysterious. penguinpower must have been quite the rascal

1291 was my original reasoning for voting this slot and I haven’t gotten anything since that has made me feel better about the slot or that I was wrong with my opinion. I’m sorry I didn’t rehash all of my feelings in an above post but I figured you had caught up on the game and would’ve paid particular attention to posts/votes regarding your slot. So to say I didn’t say why I voted feels like just trying to make something out of nothing to make me look sus.

[Psyche]

- if you yourself were caught up on the game, you'd have noticed the several times i've said that i'm not
- 1291 is almost 30 pages ago!

[KayJayQueue]

- if you yourself were caught up on the game, you'd have noticed the several times i've said that i'm not
- 1291 is almost 30 pages ago!

Then why are you voting without the full scope of the game? And it may be 30 pages ago but like I said, it was directly referencing your slot so I figured it’d stick out more than others especially since your slot wasn’t really on the radar much especially when the neighborhood stuff happened.

I guess I’ll just eagerly await you getting caught up, I’m sorry for being pushy.

[Psyche]

Then why are you voting without the full scope of the game?

I think it's reasonably likely that you're scum based on what I've read.

[KayJayQueue]

Then why are you voting without the full scope of the game?

I think it's reasonably likely that you're scum based on what I've read.

Well then I definitely will be waiting for you to get fully caught up because I’m not and I hope you’ll see that. If there’s anything you want an explanation on, just ask please.

[Psyche]

VOTE: PenguinPower

Until I figure out which person from the neighborhood I think is the best to vote, I’m using my vote to give information about what I’m thinking, since apparently not voting is the work of the devil according to some. (sorry for being hyperbolic) But also, if wanting to glean info from someone’s voting history if they are killed/limmed is a big thing, I don’t mind this being put out there.

I don’t like Day 2 from Penguin. I didn’t really love his D1 either. Maybe it’s just his playstyle but continually prodding people to vote and saying they add nothing to the game unless they vote is odd to me since he seems to vote randomly with no explanation a good amount of the time. He says talk is meaningless yet votes (sometimes) with no (obvious) incentive. Seems like he does that so he can retroactively come up with any explanation he wants for his votes.

This justification for kjq's attitude re: PP is very leaky in its reasoning and lacks a convincing sorting mindset.

What I mean by

sorting mindset

is that the post and content following up on the post are missing straightforward efforts to clarify ambiguity in her best guesses around the game state.

In this post, KJQ acknowledges two possible explanations for what she dislikes about PP's vote-focused playstyle -- that 1) he's two-faced/hypocritical scum, and 2) that this is just the way he plays mafia.

KJQ acknowledges that pp's posting could be NAI but makes no real effort to sort between this account and the PP-scum. Instead opting to the interpretation that PP's play is scum-motivated

without providing any justification for this choice

or any attempt here or in downstream posts to further clarify this choice.

Kjq's iso demonstrates no apparent effort at deciding between these two possibilities she herself marks as plausible. She could have tried to look at PP's past games for similar patterns. She could inquired for examples of durable commitment to this style from PP himself or other players with experience with him. She could have probed examples in PP's iso of where he may have used the ambiguity in his votes to potentially advance a scum win condition.

I'm not seeing examples of any of this. Instead, the trajectory of KJQ's reads are pretty flat.

I've noticed this pattern of coasting and disinterest in real sorting is in her earlygame posts too. In an earlier post, I highlighted this in a sequence of posts around willow (who got replaced by lycanfire). kjq observed that willow's choices of who to focus criticism on did not appear opportunistic -- it focused on people who weren't voting for their slot -- but declined real reflection on whether that was alignment-indicative in either direction.

Despite purportedly laying out a read on PP, I think the post quoted here has the same problem. KJQ lays out relevant facts but doesn't make a serious attempt at weighing them, or at improving an initially ambiguous take afterwards.

[Random Nurse]

I want to believe Thomith/Gypyx are Town but if they keep surviving that's going to test my faith.

[Random Nurse]

Anyone have a read on Scum Psyche?

[Random Nurse]

I DO think it's a Scumtell when a player has only Townreads and Nullreads, no Scumreads.

[Thomith]

I want to believe Thomith/Gypyx are Town but if they keep surviving that's going to test my faith.

That is 100% fair.

[Thomith]

Anyone have a read on Scum Psyche?

I'm going to reread the slot.

I feel like I had the slot as a scumread due to a POE that now seems potentially flawed since I think there is very easily a world where Snow is town, which said POE kind of relied on him being scum. I want to reread it and see if I outright get any scum pings.

[Psyche]

i guess that overlong post can be summed up in one question:
kqj, if you thought there was a reasonable chance that PP's posting was just his playstyle, what have you done to rule out or discount this possibility?

[Psyche]

I DO think it's a Scumtell when a player has only Townreads and Nullreads, no Scumreads.

well now i do have a scumread and a few posts talking about it

but also i have plenty of other games where i'm town and similarly focused on solving through townreads than vice versa. i think you were in a recent one of those!

[Random Nurse]

If I get hoodwinked by fucking Scum Thomith and Gypyx after my initial suspicions I will laugh so hard.

[Random Nurse]

I DO think it's a Scumtell when a player has only Townreads and Nullreads, no Scumreads.

well now i do have a scumread and a few posts talking about it

but also i have plenty of other games where i'm town and similarly focused on solving through townreads than vice versa. i think you were in a recent one of those!

When exactly was that?

[Thomith]

If I get hoodwinked by fucking Scum Thomith and Gypyx after my initial suspicions I will laugh so hard.

It would be a fucking wild bluff lmfao, but unfortunately not one I think I'd have the guts to pull off.

[Random Nurse]

Maybe there's only 2 left...

3 left in a 15 with barely any Town power doesn't seem balanced...