open 914: the coalition

[Tsawwassen]

I won't nominate people who nominate themselves

[Tsawwassen]

I ain't no riddler

[Tsawwassen]

i will nominate a person if and only if the person doesn't nominate themself

So true bestie

[Tsawwassen]

I won't nominate people who nominate themselves

What’s the purpose of this statement?

To state my intentions

[Tsawwassen]

Or rather, what’s your thought process behind that idea? I’d like it if Moros could also answer this question.

The better question would've been whether if we would nominate ourselves

Missed opportunities, gambler, missed opportunities

[Tsawwassen]

If we all nominate ourselves, a coalition cannot be formed, so you need others to make compromises

[Tsawwassen]

A "typical" coalition in this setup involves 5 players collectively deciding that they are the coalition, and thus all 5 of those players would vote for themselves. In fact it's technically mathematically impossible to form a coalition without at least one player voting for themself: there are 5 people on the coalition, and 5 people voting for the coalition, and in a player list of 9 people that list must overlap at at least one player.

Wait you're right

That means I'm forced to suffer nominating people that nominated themselves

[Tsawwassen]

Now I will only nominate people who nominate themselves

[Tsawwassen]

HEAL: May, Umlaut, cj

[Tsawwassen]

That means I'm forced to suffer nominating people that nominated themselves

That's not true!

You always have the option to just not vote for the coalition that forms

I would like to have a stake in the coalition!

[Tsawwassen]

I'm healing cj but I don't actually townread them yet

I'm good with including implosion and Moros in the coalition though!

[Tsawwassen]

I nommed myself because I'm town and I want to nom people who are town.

Wow you said the thang about being the thang and doing the thang

[Tsawwassen]

yeah I'm an alt

[Tsawwassen]

hello! did you wait for me? I'm going to reread the whole thread 4 more times to come up with points with my gut, intuition, experience or whatever i have, like you guys. No, a three more times if necessary. It's not easy, is it? 7 townies, 2 mafia goons and an 11 days long coalition phase. I wonder why 11 days. Does it take that long normally to come up with an agreement?

Eagerly awaiting your input!

[Tsawwassen]

Scum-reading, town-reading. This must be how pros play.

Are you insulting me, rookie? Calling people pros n shiz

[Tsawwassen]

I think there's a good ‘probability’ that we will find one scum in each group, if we divide us players into grups of least and most posts. So I'm also deciding to pick two players from both groups to add into my coalition.

Curious to know why you are focusing on activity levels as an alignment indicator here

[Tsawwassen]

it seems unfair to me that there's only 5 town members. it leaves them no room for error in forming their coalition. but i didn't design the setup

Honestly it's just an issue of me posting without thinking. This post put it in my head that the setup was 5v2 and I didn't even bother to double check. I do absent minded stuff like this regarding the setup pretty often

I'll give you benefit of the doubt since I also derped out at the start

[Tsawwassen]

Townreading Black somewhat, but not gonna lie I got a gut feeling that Black vs May might have been some sort of distancing play, so I don't want the coalition to have both of them in it, I'm fine with Black being in it though!

Finding Umlaut townie during Moros vs Black.

Cutter B confuses me the more she posts... is it just me?

Don't have a read on May right now!

This coalition looks good to me right now!

HURT: all
HEAL: Black, Moros, Tsawwassen, implosion, Umlaut

[Tsawwassen]

This is interesting because it's softly a list of you, me and my townreads; and also because it seems quite the politically infeasible coalition at this moment (granted that Moros is being a bit ambiguous about its read on me, but it did unheal me and is scumreading Black and Umlaut)

Is this a roundabout way of saying you don't townread me yet? It's ok I think you will come around though!

I know my list might not be feasible, but it is essentially a combo of including people I trust and excluding people I don't trust at the moment (May, cutter b, ceejay, don't remember the fourth...)

[Tsawwassen]

131 is a joke that undermine its own arguments

it wasn't a joke.

What am I thinking right now?

[Tsawwassen]

the thing that i started to not like about implosion is that i think he seems very logical but some of the axioms that he is starting with in order to derive his reasonings feel too strained to be taken as given.

i think that mafia who wants to be seen as logical and correct but also wants to reach specific conclusions may employ such a strategy. he still seems good to me aside from that but it makes me more afraid to trust him.

I see your point - on other setups I would be more paranoid of his plays here, but in this setup I think he's town hunting for the coalition, so I'm more lenient on townreading him here

[Tsawwassen]

I'm healing cj but I don't actually townread them yet

I'm good with including implosion and Moros in the coalition though!

Can you expand on your thoughts on ceejay

ceejay feels okay, I'd even be willing to swap him with one my of coalition votes maybe

[Tsawwassen]

HEAL: Tsawwassen

I think Tsawwassen was genuinely interested in figuring out my alignment when they tried helping me talk more.

I was! I wish you'd talk more though, or else...

Who do you think is trying to weasel their way into the coalition?

[Tsawwassen]

aventurine seems ok to me.

??????????

i think it hasn't done very much that feels more likely to be scum or more likely to be town. you don't agree?

"seems ok" feels like an endorsement

[Tsawwassen]

Tsawassen who is your second favorite townie?

You stunlocked me with this question

[Tsawwassen]

Must be the monthly buff.

[Tsawwassen]

Tsawwassen gives me very mixed vibes. I like their opening, I like some of their vibes in general. I don't really like 189 the more I look at it. I don't really like the hedginess of the black vs may comment, nor the statement that it looked distancey but that they're still fine having one of the two on it? like, what's the thought process there? "I think both these people might be scum distancing from each other so I'm okay having exactly one of them on the coalition"? Kinda looks contrived.

That's just what I thought at the moment ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Black was vibing with May's RVS self heal in the opening, then I healed May. Then Black suddenly signaled for caution about putting May in the coalition 61. I found this sudden vibe change a little odd, and rationalized it as some sort of distancing play. It's a post with low stakes but high payoff.

The list itself that they come up with also strikes me as a bit contrived. I mentioned at the time that it was me + my townreads + them and I mostly just said that as an amused throwaway line but there is kind of a Bayesian argument that winding up at that exact list is something that scum might be more likely to do, because it looks like a potentially politically viable coalition that has a scum inserted into it. 198 is also sort of weird, like the way that they list everyone in the game as either someone they trust or someone they don't trust, idk. It doesn't really ring true to me to the way that town approaches sorting.

This is not a strong read, and it's particularly muddled because of tsawwassen being one of those alts who is to some extent playing like an alt.

I don't really see what's the issue with me putting people I trust and townread in the coalition?

[Tsawwassen]

There was a lot of yapping!
I don't really dig the kind of yapping from May though... Feels like the empty posting that scum tends to make.


Warming up to an Aventurine townread. Particularly liked 306 where he opted to push for clarity as an outcome of the argument, rather than arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm still townreading implosion, Black and Moros, and I'm willing to stake the game on this read being correct.

For now I'll support any coalition without May or Cutter b. I'll exclude myself if we need to compromise.

[Tsawwassen]

If ceejayvinoya is town I’m fairly certain the scum pair might be Cutter B and Tsawwassen but this has no basis, I was just looking at the current coalitions

I don't follow... what do you mean?

[Tsawwassen]

I think we are all converging on a coalition

[Tsawwassen]

Umlaut, implosion, Black, Moros, Aventurine

^ this one I think

[Tsawwassen]

Hmm, ok we are on the precipice of convergence

[Tsawwassen]

Black was vibing with May's RVS self heal in the opening, then I healed May. Then Black suddenly signaled for caution about putting May in the coalition 61. I found this sudden vibe change a little odd, and rationalized it as some sort of distancing play. It's a post with low stakes but high payoff.

I don't understand how you go from rationalizing it as some sort of distancing play, to your statement that you're okay with having one of the two of them in your coalition but not both. Distancing typically describes something scum do toward other scum. If you rationalized it as "Black might be distancing from May", why would your reaction to this not be "we should omit both Black and May from the coalition"?

My thought process was like, "Black might be trying to distance from May", "but I townread Black independently", "I'm willing to shelve that read", "but it's a cool read let me float it out there anyway". Yes it's a lot of mental gymnastics, but is it necessarily scum indicative?

I don't really see what's the issue with me putting people I trust and townread in the coalition?

I don't really feel viscerally from your posting that the people you put in the coalition are people that you evaluated and came to trust and townread, rather than people that you as scum felt were politically expedient to call town.

They were mostly gut reads cause I saw something I liked from their posting. I don't believe in over-justifying townreads, especially that early

This is interesting because it's softly a list of you, me and my townreads; and also because it seems quite the politically infeasible coalition at this moment (granted that Moros is being a bit ambiguous about its read on me, but it did unheal me and is scumreading Black and Umlaut)

Wait! You changed your tune! You said it was quite the politically infeasible coalition before since the people I included in my coalition were scumreading each other.

[Tsawwassen]

Yes! That coalition does align with my reads

No! I'm not happy I'm not in it!

[Tsawwassen]

tas how do you feel about the following, drastically different coalition?
tired person, black, tas, aventurine, may

You already know the answers to this question, bozo

[Tsawwassen]

tas how do you feel about the following, drastically different coalition?
tired person, black, tas, aventurine, may

You already know the answers to this question, bozo

did you find cutter b actively scummy? because i found her pretty towny before i replaced in
also talk to me about your may scumread and umlaut townread because we seem to diverge there.

You found your pred towny? Most convincing argument

cutter b wasn't particularly scummy per se, she just wasn't doing a whole lot, so she was like the baseline scum for me

[Tsawwassen]

i think may is town because of her complete disregard to being townread and also just an overall lack of positioning attempts.

I don't think May has done a satisfactory amount of town hunting - one of the things I'm looking for in this setup specifically, nor steered the discussion in a way that's conducive for that purpose

I don't actually know where you stand other than your current coalition votes though, what made you consider May over others?

[Tsawwassen]

i think that tired person making the case that may is town while both of them are on the outskirts of being included in coalitions is more likely to be town behavior.

I don't really agree, and I think it makes a lot of sense if the solve is just TP/May

Hmm idk... seems unnecessarily risky to force two unpopular candidates into the coalition

[Tsawwassen]

Could be a curve ball though

I don't know what to make of tired person's coalition vote changes yet, seems a bit rushed

[Tsawwassen]

I'm mainly focusing on the coalition and how people are playing around it right now

You are 2 steps ahead of me!!

[Tsawwassen]

i think there's one scum in umlaut, implosion, moros(???). this is a game state read based on the following facts:

I think if implosion is scum he wouldn't need to campaign so hard against my spot in the coalition since he was pretty widely townread already

[Tsawwassen]

What does jellyfishing mean?

[Tsawwassen]

I'm surprised Umlaut is in so many coalitions, I forgot why I townread him tbh. If we gave him the boot we would be one step closer to convergence

HURT: Umlaut
HEAL: ceejay

[Tsawwassen]

I'm surprised Umlaut is in so many coalitions, I forgot why I townread him tbh. If we gave him the boot we would be one step closer to convergence

HURT: Umlaut
HEAL: ceejay

this makes no sense. nobody is going to converge on ceejay.

nobody converged on ceejay, yet

[Tsawwassen]

I stated my coalition preference just earlier in 372, and then you approached me with a coalition that included the 2 players I didn't give support for

I thought you were just trolling me lol. I didn't get the sense you were actually wanting to work with me, my bad!

[Tsawwassen]

Moros and implosion should be pretty self evident from their ISO. I'm not sure what exactly you're seeing from May that you're not seeing from the other two

I feel like I've asked you this before...

[Tsawwassen]

maybe tsawwassen is just town but i'm not going to ever admit it because i'm prideful

That's ok you're allowed to be wrong on 2 townies so you still one in reserve

[Tsawwassen]

This weekend is bad for me. Won't have much time until Monday

[Tsawwassen]

the deadline will be at least 72 hours after the last replacement fills

I can procrastinate more. This is most excellent

[Tsawwassen]

Reading back on tired person's ISO, it wasn't as scummy as I originally thought, so I might've given him less credit than he deserves.

But his approach felt a little blunt to me for someone who replaced in - I expected to see a "settling in" period from him, but that element was missing. So I felt like he was coming in with a more informed view on the gamestate than anticipated.

I'm not ready to call that slot town though for the fuzzy logic of townreading Black because she wants to be townread and townreading May for the opposite.

[Tsawwassen]

I thought ceejayvinoya was pretty townie

[Tsawwassen]

Mostly by tone. I get a sense of clarity reading his posts; the opposite of what I normally associate with scum posting with no substance.

I also it's pretty hard to fake this tone as scum and would be surprised if he is capable of it

[Tsawwassen]

the worst replaces ceejayvinoya

experience replaces umlaut

This is the worst experience ever.

[Tsawwassen]

regarding the logic with may and black, it's all context dependant and personality dependant. the way that black wanted to be townread felt towny, while the way may didn't care about being townread also felt towny. bc they have different personalities and contexts.

You are much more than what you seem. I think I need to evaluate you differently

[Tsawwassen]

tas there's something which doesn't really add up for me. in posts 414 and 420 you seemed to be happy with a coalition that included umlaut, implosion, black, moros and aventurine. you also townread want to include yourself and ceejay. does that mean you think the scum team is exactly myself and may?

What doesn't add up?

[Tsawwassen]

tas there's something which doesn't really add up for me. in posts 414 and 420 you seemed to be happy with a coalition that included umlaut, implosion, black, moros and aventurine. you also townread want to include yourself and ceejay. does that mean you think the scum team is exactly myself and may?

What doesn't add up?

well aside from knowing that i'm town, do you feel me and may make sense as a scum team?

I haven't given that much thought! You two were just what I townread the least compared to everyone else

[Tsawwassen]

I'm not married to my implosion townread! I thought his early game was on points but he certainly dropped in my evaluation recently. There are grounds to your read on him I'll say.

[Tsawwassen]

on point*

[Tsawwassen]

i'm getting an early night tonight & waking up early tomorrow so i think i'll probably be around a lot more then. where should i focus my efforts?

Hi! Probably look at the current coalition votes (there's a consensus of about 5-6 people) and go from there

[Tsawwassen]

I townread your pred ceejay I hope you can carry on his legacy.

YOU CAN DO THIS!

[Tsawwassen]

are u suggesting that you townread my pred so there's an onus on me to continue to be ostensibly towny?

Yes. And I won't take no for an answer.

[Tsawwassen]

are u suggesting that you townread my pred so there's an onus on me to continue to be ostensibly towny?

Yes. And I won't take no for an answer.

I'm guessing we haven't met. I don't think I'm hard to read, necessarily, but I think it's hard for a lot of people to feel comfortable in their reads on me. If you can try to sort me via my predecessor that will probably make this game a lot easier. My slots alignment hasn't changed, you're just stuck with me now (sorry)

Oh, ceejay wasn't actually widely townread! He was hovering around null for a lot of people. I think I'm one of the few people who's expressed a townread on him.

[Tsawwassen]

ooh ok this is a scumpost

Wow look at you mindmelding with ceejayvinoya without even trying!!

[Tsawwassen]

There was a lot of yapping!
I don't really dig the kind of yapping from May though... Feels like the empty posting that scum tends to make.

Warming up to an Aventurine townread. Particularly liked 306 where he opted to push for clarity as an outcome of the argument, rather than arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm still townreading implosion, Black and Moros, and I'm willing to stake the game on this read being correct.

For now I'll support any coalition without May or Cutter b. I'll exclude myself if we need to compromise.

May's posts have been consistently focused and game advancing (or funny (or both)), this feels like a personality thing more than a take.

May's posts may have been too big brained for me so I thought she was spending more effort dressing her posts than trying to get her points across. You may be right it's a style.

I do agree on the Aventurine read too.

[Tsawwassen]

@the worst, I'd like to know how sure is your implosion read. I feel I'm wavering on that

Don't have anything else to say about your list

[Tsawwassen]

I enjoyed it. There were a lot of eureka! moments for me personally

[Tsawwassen]

If I had to describe implosion this day phase, it would be like a lake that dried up. The contrast is unnerving.

[Tsawwassen]

I enjoyed it. There were a lot of eureka! moments for me personally

you've succeeded in making me blush but not in joining my coalition (yet).

I mostly agree with your top 5, only compromising on May, but I don't really see any issue including her if she is townread by most of my coalition votes too

[Tsawwassen]

Ok I'm fine with the Moros list for now

HURT: Tsawwassen
HEAL: May

Are ya lost girl? You never healed me according to the VC 2 posts above

And I don't know about putting Aventurine in the coalition, I haven't really felt their presence lately

[Tsawwassen]

the worst
implosion
Moros
Black
May
tired person

I'm fine with these people in the coalition

[Tsawwassen]

I'm gonna need to dock some points for that

[Tsawwassen]

Out of the two not on my list. I feel more strongly about Aventurine. I could be wrong on Umlaut/experience. Umlaut's posting was fine but I'll admit I'm heavily driven by recency bias and exp's has not done anything to massage that aspect...

If the scum team is Aven/exp, they are on track to lose, yet aren't really doing anything to change course. So that does give me some pause. I think I'll start townreading the mentality of looking for a plausible coalition without including oneself in it more.

[Tsawwassen]

I'm excited to be outside the coalition bc it means u poor bastards are stuck w me until im threatening enough to nightkill

I've been wondering in the event that coalition fails, wouldn't scum choose the larger group of coalition and non-coalition for nk?

[Tsawwassen]

Lol should we do top 3 first then compromise on the other 2.

I'm getting woozy looking at all the different combos

[Tsawwassen]

Code: Select all

May     ------
black   ------
implo   -----
moros   ----
tsaw    ----
tired   ---
worst   --
exp     --
Aven    -

^ From most recent VC

HURT: all
HEAL: May, Black, implosion

[Tsawwassen]

Lol should we do top 3 first then compromise on the other 2.

I'm getting woozy looking at all the different combos

We have a coalition that 5 people agree with. It doesn't seem like we need to do any more compromising

I mean, great. But looking at the VC there's always 1-2 that's different.

[Tsawwassen]

the worst
implosion
Moros
Black
May
tired person

I'm fine with these people in the coalition

Why would Tsawwassen want to compromise when everyone in my suggested coalition is on his list here?

Time is running out! And there's seemingly a coordination issue. ..

[Tsawwassen]

We have 5 people that have agreed to my coalition and they have all day to cast their heal votes

What were you wanting to compromise on anyway?

You keep saying that but I don't actually see people voting the exact coalition you proposed.

[Tsawwassen]

We have 5 people that have agreed to my coalition and they have all day to cast their heal votes

What were you wanting to compromise on anyway?

You keep saying that but I don't actually see people voting the exact coalition you proposed.

If you read over the last page or two then you'll see that there are 5 people willing to join me

Can you answer my question? Who would you take out/add to my coalition?

Well your coalition doesn't have me and my strongest townread the worst in it

And part of the reason I suggested healing 3 people first is that I think most people are aligned on 3 people already so it takes no effort to lock in the 3, then it's less mental capacity to think about the remaining 2.

[Tsawwassen]

yeah i think i would actually support that coalition, in that at this moment i think i'm willing to support any coalition with me/moros/black/may. I don't actually specifically want experience on coalition right now in spite of all the everything

Ok I do agree implo/moros/black/may is a winning combo. The question becomes who gets the tag along for the ride

[Tsawwassen]

HEAL: Moros

[Tsawwassen]

I will not support any coalition that has Tsawwassen or the worst in it

I think any coalition without me or the worst it has significantly lower odds of winning lol

[Tsawwassen]

yeah i think i would actually support that coalition, in that at this moment i think i'm willing to support any coalition with me/moros/black/may. I don't actually specifically want experience on coalition right now in spite of all the everything

Ok I do agree implo/moros/black/may is a winning combo. The question becomes who gets the tag along for the ride

You're on record for saying you would be fine with tired person in. So why are you suddenly reluctant?

Because tired person is my lowest confident townread, my list is ordered from most to least confident. And you're not my top townread. Plus like I said I prefer other candidates.

Why the tunnel vision though? I think if you're town here we should expect to see some collaborative spirit, and not trying to strongarm only your coalition through.

[Tsawwassen]

What tunnel vision? I spent the day yesterday collaborating and we decided this coalition is the most agreed upon. Just because you weren't part of the discussion doesn't mean it didn't happen

It's not a collaboration if everyone ends up compromising but you don't.

[Tsawwassen]

Alright, if there's enough support for your coalition, I won't fight it

I'm just saying there are better coalitions fmpov but it seems I'm unlikely to convince you at this point anyway

[Tsawwassen]

the worst
implosion
Moros
Black
May
tired person

I'm fine with these people in the coalition

Why would Tsawwassen want to compromise when everyone in my suggested coalition is on his list here?

Time is running out! And there's seemingly a coordination issue. ..

what do you mean by this?

No two coalition votes are the same

vote count 1.9 !

coalition votes:

Tsawwassen:

Black, Moros, Tsawwassen, implosion, the worst

Moros:

implosion, Black, Moros, Aventurine, May

May:

Black, May, Tsawwassen, experience, tired person

Black:

Black, May, tired person, Moros, implosion

tired person:

Black, May, Moros, Tsawwassen, experience

the worst:

implosion, May, Tsawwassen, tired person, Moros

experience:

May, implosion, the worst

Aventurine:

(none proposed)

implosion:

(none proposed)

[Tsawwassen]

Also if you think the scumteam could be aven/exp then you should definitely be ok with my coalition

I also said I could be wrong on umlaut/expe, which means I would definitely have an issue with your coalition

[Tsawwassen]

Okay!

[Tsawwassen]

HEAL: tired person

I hope Black is not as wrong about this coalition as she is about me

[Tsawwassen]

well now it's definitely wrong.

Why does outside votes make it wrong?

Doesn't it already have "wide support"?

[Tsawwassen]

it's possible if it's the worst/aventurine but that pairing doesn't make sense to me.

That doesn't explain why it's wrong

[Tsawwassen]

HURT: all

[Tsawwassen]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

PETER DOIG (B. 1959) - BLUE DEVIL (Oil on canvas), 2004

vote count 1.9 !

coalition votes:

Tsawwassen:

Black, Moros, Tsawwassen, implosion, the worst

Moros:

implosion, Black, Moros, Aventurine, May

May:

Black, May, Tsawwassen, experience, tired person

Black:

Black, May, tired person, Moros, implosion

tired person:

Black, May, Moros, Tsawwassen, experience

the worst:

implosion, May, Tsawwassen, tired person, Moros

experience:

May, implosion, the worst

Aventurine:

(none proposed)

implosion:

(none proposed)

execution votes:

(these have no effect until after the coalition phase is over, but i'll keep track of them)

not voting (9):

tired person, Black, Aventurine, the worst, Moros, May, Tsawwassen, implosion, experience

with 9 alive, it takes 5 of the same vote to propose a coalition. the coalition phase ends in (expired on 2024-05-10 01:59:34)

moderateur notes

• 
  
  
• 
  urpger
  
  
• b

HURT: Moros
HEAL: Black

my mind is changing quite often

Code: Select all

May     ------
black   ------
implo   -----
moros   ----
tsaw    ----
tired   ---
worst   --
exp     --
Aven    -

^ From most recent VC

HURT: all
HEAL: May, Black, implosion

HURT: ducky
HEAL: tired, moros, black

HEAL: Moros

HURT: aventurine
HEAL: tired person

3 votes

HEAL: implosion

Black, May, tired person, Moros, implosion

How do people feel about this coalition?

HURT: everyone

HEAL: Black, may, tired person, moros, implosion

how'd I do? I'm activel7 falling asleep.

HEAL: tired person

I hope Black is not as wrong about this coalition as she is about me

did I really hammer though?

[Tsawwassen]

Wait I did. I thought exp's 841 was a hurt all. Welp

[Tsawwassen]

I did a hurt all in 837

[Tsawwassen]

Wishful thinking but alas

[Tsawwassen]

My only mistake here is not realizing the coalition cannot be an all-town one fmpov once experience and the worst voted for it

[Tsawwassen]

Well, not entire true, my other mistake was not realizing experience had a full coalition vote...

[Tsawwassen]

Occam's razor points to tired person + Aventurine

Don't stop what y'all were doing though. Cat fight in the coalition! Rawr rawr!

[Tsawwassen]

I'm a sucker for the no frills brain dump from tired person tbh

[Tsawwassen]

I'm a sucker for the no frills brain dump from tired person tbh

I'm recommending against actually doing the exercise but I feel neutral the dump happened. you think it's more likely to come from town?

I would expect scum in her position to spend more effort on optics and positioning, but her comm is generally concise and precise, which I think is more indicative of a town mindset.

I don't think scum would post something like "here's my thoughts but I haven't dug into them" at this juncture

[Tsawwassen]

VOTE: implosion

I have reasons to townread everyone else on the coalition, so this is the only play here

[Tsawwassen]

Sorry if I haven't really contributed lately!

I'm bored and I want a flip too. It's good that new replacements have injected some life into the game, but I'm suffering from attrition from how long this phase has gone on. If you're expecting super analytical stuff from me you should lower your expectations lol

I'm probably not going to vote Black or May here. If I'm wrong on these two I'm carrying them to my grave. My read on tired person hasn't changed. But I'm not super impressed by Moros' recent posting to the point where I'd consider going there. I've been mulling over on implosion; I feel the emotions behind his posts but it's been inconclusive so far.

[Tsawwassen]

i think DArby is my favorite replacement catchup by far. they feel like they have the goal of solving the game and getting their own reads across, and not anything more. it's efficient and straightforward. i think it feels very town-motivated.

I don't really agree with this., though there could be some bias here because I was scumreading his pred and I disagree with his read on ceejay/worst, but I don't like how he arrived at his reads. Most of his reads are half-baked. He tries to justify them but the justification is shallow at best. His read on the worst is based off discrediting a single readlist while ignoring everything else. His read on May and Moros share the same template of "mech busy talk". His implosion townread is based off a single post from implosion talking about his meta, etc etc...

He has Moros in his scumread but chooses to vote May when there was a wagon on Moros already. This attempt to shift the focus on the lim makes me think we were on the right track actually

[Tsawwassen]

Also also, I did say 3 times in my last post these were quick thoughts I’d get back to later. I really hope you’re not discrediting me for not having full analysis while also saying to not expect it from you in the span of 2 posts.

The difference lies in not justifying your reads at all vs justifying your reads with shaky reasoning. You can get a sense of what I mean by if you compared tired person's ISO with yours.

Not that I think pursuing a vanity wagon is inherently scummy, but in this specific instance it reads agenda-pushy because it aims to deflect pressure off implosion/Moros, especially when the reasoning given is not strong enough to warrant it yet.

I want to say this pushback is pretty towny though! Certainly warrants a re-evaluation on your slot

[Tsawwassen]

tsawwa darby expy take my hands (i have three hands), let's solve the coalition together

What happened to your Moros read?

[Tsawwassen]

The townread on Black is like the piece of Jenga that's holding my entire worldview together

[Tsawwassen]

Unreal that Moros always know what to say

pedit, I had this thought b4 the pocket

[Tsawwassen]

ironically i also think experience has been pretty scummy post-coalition and unfortunately i'm trying to solve within the coalition

It always gotta come back to Umlaut huh

if Moros/May/implosion are all town it has to be Black/experience then

[Tsawwassen]

ironically i also think experience has been pretty scummy post-coalition and unfortunately i'm trying to solve within the coalition

It always gotta come back to Umlaut huh

if Moros/May/implosion are all town it has to be Black/experience then

I'm confused aren't there five people in coalition

My bad, tired person is my partner

[Tsawwassen]

request in 1158 is still open

may's vote is goofier i think. if may and implosion are doing scum theater it's very amusing lol.

If May and implosion are doing scum theater it's peak cinema though they could be method acting

[Tsawwassen]

Also also, I did say 3 times in my last post these were quick thoughts I’d get back to later. I really hope you’re not discrediting me for not having full analysis while also saying to not expect it from you in the span of 2 posts.

The difference lies in not justifying your reads at all vs justifying your reads with shaky reasoning. You can get a sense of what I mean by if you compared tired person's ISO with yours.

We’re different people with different play styles idk what to tell you. It was pretty dead whenever I came in so I just started with my reasonings and I’m going from there, having my reads develop. I don’t think that’s a suspicious thing to do?

Sorry I won't compare you to someone else anymore; you're perfect the way you are

[Tsawwassen]

Get out of my head!

[Tsawwassen]

Backward knight moves are the hardest to find in chess but it could pay off. Mhm

[Tsawwassen]

I am really indifferent to either lim

[Tsawwassen]

Yeah I guess

[Tsawwassen]

Here goes nothing!

VOTE: tired person

[Tsawwassen]

VOTE: implosion

I think it's implosion + experience

[Tsawwassen]

i think that May makes sense as a partner to experience because Umlaut was in most players' coalitions early in the game, and May didn't seem like she was trying to get in. but later Umlaut disappeared and May started pushing more to get in.

i don't think implosion makes sense as a partner to experience because of the way he treated Umlaut early in the game. if implosion is mafia then i think he strongly townread Umlaut because he knew Umlaut was town, not because he was a partner.

i don't think experience is town because he was able to find reads easily and quickly when he needed to form a coalition but has lost that now. i think when he needed to push a coalition with his partner, he did that, but now he doesn't know what to do.

Penrose triangle of a read there

[Tsawwassen]

the reads build on each other but i believe the structure is sound if you construct it on a foundation of scum experience. i think it's true though that building the house before checking if the foundation is there or not is unwise.

You used scum!exp as the basis to assert scum!May. Yet you used town!exp as the basis to assert implosion can't be partner with him because he TMI'd his read.

There are two polarizing hypothesis there.

[Tsawwassen]

i think that May makes sense as a partner to experience because Umlaut was in most players' coalitions early in the game, and May didn't seem like she was trying to get in. but later Umlaut disappeared and May started pushing more to get in.

i don't think implosion makes sense as a partner to experience because of the way he treated Umlaut early in the game. if implosion is mafia then i think he strongly townread Umlaut because he knew Umlaut was town, not because he was a partner.

i don't think experience is town because he was able to find reads easily and quickly when he needed to form a coalition but has lost that now. i think when he needed to push a coalition with his partner, he did that, but now he doesn't know what to do.

Penrose triangle of a read there

dang granted.

I still feel like the Black townreads are a bit abstract j/s

I feel like if I'm wrong on Black or you I would just lose

I'm in too deep

[Tsawwassen]

I still think Moros can be scum but I think this page makes me think it isn't.

Want to elaborate on this?

Maybe you can convince me!

[Tsawwassen]

:shrug:

Ok... Your logic was impeccable

It's not really strong enough to sway me on implosion though

[Tsawwassen]

Keep'em coming!!

[Tsawwassen]

@Tsawwassen: you say you think it's me + experience. How do you feel about the arguments that that specifically is not the scumteam? I've mentioned earlier in thread that I think they're fairly compelling, in particular that it's dramatically unlikely that I specifically would play my read toward my scumbuddy in this setup the way that I played my read toward Umlaut early on.

Is your read of me + experience based on (1) thinking both of us are scummy individually, (2) perceived associations between us, or (3) PoE off townreading everyone else? Obviously it can be more than one but i'd like to know which and in what proportion if multiple.

If you are wrong on us being the scumteam, which of us do you think you'd more likely be wrong on/what would your next worldview be?

Glad you're asking because I'm not impartial to changing my reads

I just don't find the argument that you hard townread Umlaut that compelling to dissociate you two being the team. I don't see why that's a position scum would absolutely want to avoid, but ultimately I think that's something close to NAI.

My scumreads are mostly poe at this point so to answer your question it's (3)! I'm simply townreading Black/May/Moros more in coalition, the worst off coalition. So fmpov the only way I can be convinced my worldview is wrong would be to sell me on {Black/May/Moros}. Of those 3 my confidence in Moros is probably the most shaky, so I asked you in 1425 what made you think Moros can be scum and what made you think otherwise on "that" page

[Tsawwassen]

I'm not super stoked at the prospect of experience being the deciding vote between May and implosion right now

[Tsawwassen]

Yeah I guess I'm breaking free of my subconscious Black townread until she decides to stop being the sideline

[Tsawwassen]

I just don't find the argument that you hard townread Umlaut that compelling to dissociate you two being the team. I don't see why that's a position scum would absolutely want to avoid, but ultimately I think that's something close to NAI.

Several reasons. The simplest is that scum don't want to both be on coalition. I gave the numbers earlier but it's quite advantageous for scum to split. I advocated for Umlaut being "incredibly transparent town" - a stance that was extremely committal and, if I was scum, was very likely to lead to a double scum coalition. Of course I eventually did stop calling Umlaut town or advocating to coalition them but that was in response to them flaking, which I wouldn't have known was going to happen as scum.

Apart from that I just don't think that I as a player am inclined toward playing scum in that way. For instance, take the two completed scum coalition games I've played recently. In the first I had my scumbuddy middle of the pack and tried to subtly push them off the coalition when others were trying to put them on because I wanted a single scum coalition and I didn't want to look like that was what I was pushing for later. In the second, I was on the outs as was my scumbuddy, and I claimed mixed feelings on them and healed a coalition with neither of us on it in order to possibly gain anti-associatives later.

Where's the strength of your May and worst reads coming from?

Are you thinking it's May + worst?

I don't see the worst's wincon after May gets bussed here.