Mini 718: DICTATOR Mafia {Game over!}

[MonkeyMan576]

FOS: Gebus

Probably not the best strategic move FOSing the Dictator, but he's questioned my perfectly reasonable suspicions of Occum's behavior, which was less thinking he was scummy and more not wanting him to be dictator, and then saying that it was okay to trade a doctor death for a scum death. That would only be a last resort, after we were absolutely sure we could not get the scum without a townie death.

[Gorrad]

I was planning on waiting for others to say something to see their initial reactions before posting, but it seems they had the same idea.

I said what I did in response to Cali stating the lack of good dictators.

In this situation, where there's already one person with NK-immunity, I think the scum would jump at the chance to remove another. Two people with protection a night would SUCK for scum.

Which brings me to my next point- why would Cali kill Occam? He didn't express suspicion of him beforehand. He obviously didn't choose the NK-immunity, and I thought Occam looked pretty pro-town.

[Jebus]

Since when is it not a good idea to trade one pro-town for one scum?

3:9 scum on average. Take one away from each side and we get 2:8 scum.

Notice that 1/4 of the people being scum is greater than 1/5 of the people being scum.

Which is why trading one town of just about any role (though it could be argued easily that a cop or vig may be more important to keep) for a scum is worth it.

The only thing I find a doctor to be good for is keeping the mafia from choosing to kill claimed roles if the claim comes from someone outside the mafia. Other than that, the chance of a successful protection is pretty slim. We can live without the doctor. No need to overrate it.

And as for your reasoning, different people think differently. What may be perfectly reasonable to you might not be the same to me.

[Gorrad]

Recall the idea of the unKNable doc? That'd be something I'd be terrified of as scum. In most situations, you'd be right. I don't think you are here.

[Jebus]

I've never heard of such a thing, though that would scare the hell out of me if I were scum. In this game, that'd make three people immune each night. Yipes.

I still don't think that'd happen in this game, though. That'd seem incredibly unbalanced.

We've got 12 players. Subtract three. We've got 9 living players. Only six are killable at night. The mafia, without killin one of there own, can only kill half of the available players. Without some special scum roles, that'd be ridiculously unfair.

I still stand by what I said, though. We can live without our doc here. Let's just focus on killing our scum.

[Der Hammer]

I have a bad feeling about this....

Overthrow:Jebus

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

christano drago is being replaced.

Der Hammer, orangepenguin, Moratorium, and Jazzmyn have been prodded.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

If the dice rolls 1~7, Jebus is overthrown. Anything else Jebus stays as DICTATOR.

Original Roll String: 1d20

1 20-Sided Dice: (12) = 12

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Der Hammer's overthrow attempt succeeds. Der Hammer is the new DICTATOR.

[Der Hammer]

All hail your new ruler!

My first public address will be delivered later this evening.

[Jebus]

So why the quick overthrow? Is the "bad feeling" really all you've got to say?

[Gorrad]

Well, I can't say that was unexpected. I was going to do the same if things stayed on the same track.

[Jebus]

Well, I can't say that was unexpected. I was going to do the same if things stayed on the same track.

Is the "bad feeling" really all you've got to say?

[SiestaGuru]

Where did all the jebus hate come from? He doens't look that suspicious to me tbh...

[Moratorium]

Posting from a Holiday Inn on my return drive from vacation, will be reading through and posting regularly again.

[Jazzmyn]

Hello, all

I have to re-read and catch up a bit, and will post my thoughts, observations, and questions as soon as I can.

Regards,
Jazz

[orangepenguin]

Not sure what to think of the quick overthrow. On the one hand, I didn't really like the random selection of Jebus, but, thus far, they haven't really done anything yet worth overthrowing, IMO.

[Moratorium]

Quickly read the last several pages of this game since my absence, and am honestly pretty unhappy with the town play. The case on Slysly wasn't "here's why Sly is scum", it was fueled with "here's why the doc claim was improperly done". A very weak case.

Der Hammer, you'll need to explain your overthrow, because I don't see any case against Jebus at this juncture.

And why did the conversation about roflcopter/Jazzmyn completely die? Just because he was replaced by a more competent player? I just completed a game where town won because I called out the replacement player based on the actions of who he replaced.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=340

Mafia is going to win this game because the different game mechanic is making town play like chimpanzees. And not the smart ones either, the ones the lab has to put down because they keep hitting themselves in the eye with their spoons.

More when I get home.

[Jazzmyn]

Which brings me to my next point- why would Cali kill Occam? He didn't express suspicion of him beforehand. He obviously didn't choose the NK-immunity, and I thought Occam looked pretty pro-town.

This is a very good point. I cannot see any reason at all why Caligulaph would have killed Occam, and I do not think he did, since he expressed nothing but praise for Occam throughout Day 1. I think that if Caligulaph was going to NK anyone, it would have been me since he said near the end of Day 1 that he had a 'gut' feeling that I was scummy. I just cannot see him killing Occam in the circumstances.

Rather, Occam's death suggests to me that there is some as yet unknown scum killing power afoot. I took SlySly's suggestion and read Mini 697 Prisoner's Dilemma that Machiavellian-Mafia modded , in which scum had been given several secret one-shot night action options that nobody would have suspected existed at the outset of the game, so I am inclined to think that that may be what we have here, as well.

I may be out of my depth in this game but I do not quite understand the overthrow of Jebus. DerHammer, Gorrad, and MonkeyMan, could you please elaborate on your suspicions of him?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jebus]

Gorrad, are you going to explain your post 225?

[Jebus]

3. Each day, every player has one attempt to overthrow the DICTATOR. A player attempting an overthrow should post

overthrow: DICTATOR

.

Each day's first attempt to overthrow has a 10% base chance of success,

2nd attempt 25%, 3rd attempt 40%, 4th attempt 55%, etc. This means the 7th attempt and any attempts therafter has 100% chance of success.

If the dice rolls 1~7, Jebus is overthrown. Anything else Jebus stays as DICTATOR.

Original Roll String: 1d20 (STATIC)

1 20-Sided Dice: (4) = 4

What?

[MonkeyMan576]

Which brings me to my next point- why would Cali kill Occam? He didn't express suspicion of him beforehand. He obviously didn't choose the NK-immunity, and I thought Occam looked pretty pro-town.

This is a very good point. I cannot see any reason at all why Caligulaph would have killed Occam, and I do not think he did, since he expressed nothing but praise for Occam throughout Day 1. I think that if Caligulaph was going to NK anyone, it would have been me since he said near the end of Day 1 that he had a 'gut' feeling that I was scummy. I just cannot see him killing Occam in the circumstances.

Rather, Occam's death suggests to me that there is some as yet unknown scum killing power afoot. I took SlySly's suggestion and read Mini 697 Prisoner's Dilemma that Machiavellian-Mafia modded , in which scum had been given several secret one-shot night action options that nobody would have suspected existed at the outset of the game, so I am inclined to think that that may be what we have here, as well.

I may be out of my depth in this game but I do not quite understand the overthrow of Jebus. DerHammer, Gorrad, and MonkeyMan, could you please elaborate on your suspicions of him?

Regards,
Jazz

I was suspicious of Jebus because he suggested trading a town doctor for a scum, without trying to get rid of the scum without a townie death first. Didn't seem very townie to me.

[orangepenguin]

Gorrad, are you going to explain your post 225?

225 was a post by Caligulaph.

Unless you meant 224, which is just a link, which I agree, Gorrad needs to explain that..

[MonkeyMan576]

Also, as I mentioned, Jebus, because he questioned my suspicious of Occum's grab for power at the beginning of the game. To me, it smacked of someone trying to start an anti-town agenda.

[Gorrad]

I explained already. Cali had mentioned a lack of good dictators. I made that link to show that there were dictators who were good.

Frankly, I found Jebus giving weak points, in disagreement with Caligulaph on several points, who I found VERY pro-town, and also general bad vibes. I won't lie, a bit of OMGUS as well, but still.

Jazzmyn has a good idea, but the point is that the rules state "The bulletproof vest provides immunity all kill attempts". Not "scum kill attempts", "All kill attempts". Yet he was killed at night. All I can think of is that he didn't use that power for some reason.