Mini 718: DICTATOR Mafia {Game over!}

[Jebus]

Bai

[Korlash]

Seems like nothing gets done without someone overthrowing someone... *sigh*

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Next round of prods are coming tomorrow.

Remember the deadline is within 18 days!

[Moratorium]

People who have expressed a suspicion of Jebus:

Monkeyman576

- Doesn't like being questioned about Cali, "I was suspicious of Jebus because he suggested trading a town doctor for a scum, without trying to get rid of the scum without a townie death first. Didn't seem very townie to me."

Der Hammer

- "Same reason for me"

Gorrad

- "I was going to do the same if things stayed on the same track." "Frankly, I found Jebus giving weak points, in disagreement with Caligulaph on several points, who I found VERY pro-town, and also general bad vibes. I won't lie, a bit of OMGUS as well, but still. "


People who don't see why Jebus is the target:

SiestaGuru

- "Where does all the jebus hate come from?"

orangepenguin

- "thus far, they haven't really done anything yet worth overthrowing, IMO."

Jazzmyn

- "I may be out of my depth in this game but I do not quite understand the overthrow of Jebus."

Moratorium

- "Also, am I reading this correctly that the case against Jebus boils down to "trading 1:1 town:scum is always/never/sometimes good/bad", and that there are no other elements to it? (I'm reserving judgement until someone can actually confirm this for me one way or the other). "


So essentially, there is no concensus here, and if the dictator decides to ignore that and execute, it will be seen as a hostile, anti-town play. There needs to be more discussion, because everything right now is high on guts and low on details.

[Jebus]

Also, am I reading this correctly that the case against Jebus boils down to "trading 1:1 town:scum is always/never/sometimes good/bad", and that there are no other elements to it? (I'm reserving judgement until someone can actually confirm this for me one way or the other).

Respond please, Der Hammer. (Gorrad and MonkeyMan would be nice too ;D)

[Korlash]

Hey Jebus... You said you're unable to Overthrow today... would you... care to prove it?

[Jebus]

Sure.

Overthrow: Der Hammer

[orangepenguin]

Hey Jebus... You said you're unable to Overthrow today... would you... care to prove it?

Oooo, interesting.

I would like to see that. If you are telling the truth, than you won't be able to overthrow. If you are lying..then it's up to the dice.

Sorry for the long _________ from posting. The site crashed..as everyone probably knows, but now we can get back into the swing of things.

I really don't understand why Der Hammer role makes him a better overthrower or whatever, but I do think it's kind of suspicious that someone apparently just happened to have their's stolen the same night.

[Korlash]

that is why we are testing it. I believe Hammer mentioned he had a higher chance of overthrowing before Jebus said he lost his. It "could" have been a ploy on Jebus's part to cast suspicion on Hammer. While I find it unlikely I would like to see the outcome of him trying to overthrow before we get too much into it.

HIs quick willingness to do it seems to indicate no false wrongdoings on his part. Now Hammer gets to check in and give his side of it. (while we wait to see what outcomes Jebus's overthrow has)

[MonkeyMan576]

I'd like to know exactly why Jebus is unable to overthrow.

[Moratorium]

I'd overthrow you myself, but mine was stolen.

Jebus, can you elaborate on how you lost your ability to overthrow? Did you do something that caused your ability to vanish? Did you get a mysterious PM saying it had just magically vanished? Do you have any more details on the nature of you losing the ability to overthrow at all?

[Korlash]

Bet it was the elves... Took his ability to overthrow and hid it in the dishwasher... That's when someone called 911!

It explains everything... >.>

[Jebus]

I got a PM from MM saying, in less than ten words, that my overthrow has been stolen for today.

Stolen was the exact word.

[orangepenguin]

The Thief is a pro-Town informative role that targets one player each night to 'steal' an 'item' related to that player's role. For example, if a Thief targets a Goon or a Vigilante, they are likely to obtain a gun.

The Moderator decides if the targeted player loses their ability after their 'item' has been 'stolen' by the Thief.

The Thief can be also considered to be a Flavor Cop.

Do you think there might be a thief among us? That would easily explain everything.

[orangepenguin]

From the Wiki, BTW.

[Korlash]

Well if we had a thief it would have to be a custom theif. One that steals another's chance to overthrow and in turn increases their own.

As with all custom roles the limits are, well, limitless. We could have a JoaTs with a thief ability. Or the scum could have a theif. I mean seeing as how most if not all of our roles are custom, we could have anything.

This is the main reason we need to have Hammer come in and explain how and why he got an increased chance. Better to get all the facts before we lose oursleves in the glorious speculation!

[Moratorium]

Sorry guys, I am in Germany at the moment with very limited access.

Well, that's unfortunate. And odd that you'd become dictator and then almost immediately go V/LA. Did you have an emergency reason to go from England to Germany? Or were you well aware that you'd be gone for a while without internet access?

I'd like to know exactly why Jebus is unable to overthrow.

Please elaborate on your case on Jebus.

There are two things wrong with this and both of them are it.

Please elaborate on your case on Jebus.

---

I am not too pleased that the three players who want to execute Jebus are either V/LA, or posting inconsequential one-liners and ignoring questions.

[MonkeyMan576]

Please elaborate on your case on Jebus.

There's nothing to elaborate on. He said he's unable to overthrow. I'd like to know why.

[Jazzmyn]

Hi, all

The timing of the site going down was unfortunate for me as I had time in the early part of the week to play but not in the latter part of the week. However, I will definitely catch up this weekend.

Regards,
Jazz

[Moratorium]

There's nothing to elaborate on. He said he's unable to overthrow. I'd like to know why.

I mean, elaborate on why you think we should execute Jebus, not elaborate on your question about his overthrow power.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Der Hammer and SiestaGuru have been prodded.

Note that Special Rule #4 could take effect.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Sure.

Overthrow: Der Hammer

You do not have an overthrow attempt today.

[MonkeyMan576]

There's nothing to elaborate on. He said he's unable to overthrow. I'd like to know why.

I mean, elaborate on why you think we should execute Jebus, not elaborate on your question about his overthrow power.

I didn't say we should execute him, I'm just supsicious of him due to his willingness to see a townie killed without it being a last resort. He's on the top of my list, but I'm not sure I'd do the execution yet if I were dictator.

[Moratorium]

Some quick numbers, evident if reading the rules, but I'm documenting anyways:

----

Der Hammer's overthrow attempt came with a 25% bonus to it. (7 out of 20 is .35, and first overthrow of the day is 10%).

Current chance to overthrow: 25% (2nd attempt of the day)
Each additional day Der Hammer doesn't answer prod: +10%

----

[Jebus]

MonkeyMan, I've already explained that I know nothing of the nature of the theft of my overthrow attempt, other than that it was 'Stolen', and that I can't use it today, as MM has confirmed.

I'm starting to get impatient, by the way, in the ways of the case that should have been made against me far before I was overthrown.

Specific question: Der Hammer, why would you use your extra overthrow power on me when I've had two posts as dictator, where both of them I only noted some posts that I didn't quite like and made some explanations on how I would run things? I'd like a lot more than 'Just a bad feeling', please.

Second, towards MonkeyMan: If I can quickly trade one townie for one scum, I would do it, since it lowers the town:scum ratio from 6:3 (or wherever it may stand with the three town deaths. And scum has a decent chance of not being 3 people, but rather two, based on the mechanics. So for the purposes, it's 2-3 scum, where I assume the worst). So anyway, a 6:3 town:scum ratio (which is 1/3 scum, or ~.33) to 5:2 town:scum (which is 2/7 scum, or ~.29). This is always good. And if it can be done right away, it may or may not be better to do this right away, to capitalize on the opportunity. On the other hand, it may also be better to have discussion so we can have a good place to start with next time, or better, not have to sacrifice the townie.

However, I am all for sacrificing one town for one scum if it will push us closer to victory. Especially when we've got less than ideal ratios right now. No need to overrate the doctor, especially. The doctor is the least of the base power roles. A cop can get almost definite results, and a vigilante can make kills and be a large threat to scum. Doctors, however, merely prolong the eventual deaths. Mafia is like a war. People die. The thought that there may be a doctor out there is probably the strongest of the doctors powers, which can still pale in comparison to a cop of vig. Hence why I really don't mind trading one doctor for one scum.

Next one's towards Gorrad:

Frankly, I found Jebus giving weak points, in disagreement with Caligulaph on several points, who I found VERY pro-town, and also general bad vibes. I won't lie, a bit of OMGUS as well, but still.

I'd like some specifics on this. Though my rebuttle as of now (which is weak, as it is defending against another weak point) is simply this: I never said all the points I made were against you/MonkeyMan. I pointed them out because I didn't like the way they came over, and I wanted them to be discussed. As for disagreeing with Caligulaph, I really don't remember a point that I disagreed with him on, so an example'd be nice.

And lastly, a repost at all of them:

Also, am I reading this correctly that the case against Jebus boils down to "trading 1:1 town:scum is always/never/sometimes good/bad", and that there are no other elements to it? (I'm reserving judgement until someone can actually confirm this for me one way or the other).

Answer please.

I am not too pleased that the three players who want to execute Jebus are either V/LA, or posting inconsequential one-liners and ignoring questions.

^This