Mini 696 ~ Scum o' the Sea ~ Game Over

[Xtoxm]

I'll say everything i've got after CR.

[Goatrevolt]

Springlullaby, I want to note how ridiculous it is that you ask me questions and then get pissy when I answer them.

Clockwork Ruse can't possibly be the serial killer. He got blocked night two by militant when Jebus was killed.

[Xtoxm]

That's true. He could be maf though, and made up the whole Cult thing.

[ClockworkRuse]

I keep me saber by my side at all times.

At Huntress; I can see where you are coming from but are you comfortable saying that there isn't a cult?

Second; I basically wanted to check Goat's claim. Since EA turned up scum yesterday and I already knew for a fact that EA's role claim was true, I wanted to see if he was telling the truth about Goat. Being on the opposing scum group, I think EA would love to get rid of the SK as soon as possible.

Xtoxm, are you willing to out guess the mod like that?
I'm referring to your statement about being able to turn down a recruitment.

[Goatrevolt]

That's true. He could be maf though, and made up the whole Cult thing.

Yeah, that is a possibility.

[Xtoxm]

Ok.

Tekkactus, Jebus, Mili were killed with Posion - This implicates SL, though she claimed Buther's Hook.

CW was Marlin Spiked. Huntress, do you have anyhting to say about that?

[Goatrevolt]

I'm starting to hear echo again, those are my thinking about Huntress.
Point out the flaw in my thinking about EA vs you, and point out how 'a townie is not going to draw this conclusion'.

Are you serious? Give me a freaking break. I'm attacking you because I think your play is scummy. You're attacking Huntress presumably because you think her play is scummy. Well guess what, sometimes two separate people do similar scummy stuff! How novel. So, not only am I not able to ever agree with any opinion Springlullaby puts in the thread, I'm also not allowed to attack other people based on any similar scumtells. Doing so would be "copycatting" and scum are the only ones who ever agree with other people. /sarcasm.

By the way, you never answered my earlier question. Why shouldn't I vote you for agreeing with my case on Gremwell? I mean, I gave reasons why I thought Gremwell was scum and you said you agreed with them and voted for him. You rogue copycat, you! And since you've so clearly established that copycatting is the mark of scum, you implicate yourself as scum quite clearly with that little play. Am I right?

This paragraph disgust me. Don't go all pseudo psychoanalyst guru on me, lest you make yourself look stupid.

In a game with multi scumgroup and a cult, trying to figure out which is the best lynch is what townie do. My thinking about EA and you were exactly as I posted, you were both suspicious, I wanted to figure out which of you was the best lynch.

What? You directly asked me for the psychology behind why you would make that play as scum. How dare I try to explain your psychology after you ask me to! Note, here, the fact that your next paragraph is entirely based on the psychology of townies vs. scum. I'm disgusted by the psychoanalysis present.

Man, why did you waste your time writing this shit. Does it say anything really? Tell, do you honestly think that this is a good argument?

Why do you waste your time asking me questions that lead to those answers then? You asked me why you would have given me the benefit of the doubt as scum. That's like asking why scum sometimes defend townies. Um...because it makes them look good? Because it's easy to defend someone as town when you know they are town? etc. etc.

I think there is a vig because for town to have a kill make my role more powerful, I and hope it is the case.

How can I 'fake innocence' with Xtoxm's role?

What you want or what you hope has no relevance on what is. Why do you think there is a vig? I don't want to know why you would hope for one, I just want to know why you actually think there is one.

Xtoxm's role is how you fake innocence. You can't "innocently" believe the wrong thing if nobody actually knows what the right answer is.

I faced this as scum before, and it can sometimes be a complicated matter. Scum have more information than townies. They know the setup much better than townies do. Sometimes scum get caught specifically because they have more knowledge than they are supposed to. I caught scum in a somewhat recent game simply because he suggested the possibility of multiple scum groups (pretty much out of nowhere). Well, there were two scum groups, and his knowledge of this made it obvious he was scum.

Anyway the point is that oftentimes scum will suggest wrong ideas about the setup either to mislead the town or to appear innocent of having too much knowledge when the actual setup is uncovered. It's why I'm harassing you about this vig thing, because it strikes me as exactly that. I don't see how you could logically come to the conclusion of a vig based on the information in thread. I want to know why you believe there to be one, not why you hope for one.

[Goatrevolt]

Ok.

Tekkactus, Jebus, Mili were killed with Posion - This implicates SL, though she claimed Buther's Hook.

CW was Marlin Spiked. Huntress, do you have anyhting to say about that?

Interesting. This would suggest SL as SK and Huntress as cult.

[Huntress]

And you see, I'm not getting into an endless quote wall contest with you.

Good. I thought you were trying to. That's why I have been resisting your attempts to make me repeat what I've already said.

One of your last post addressing me was this one:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 03#1425603

In which you reference this post as example of 'questions' I haven't answered to, the gist of which is 'why rolefishing':
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 03#1404603

My answer is the same as the first time you directed that accusation at me, I was not, people can judge.

Role fishing was only a small part of the points I raised. Let's recap:

In post 259 you made some accusations to which I replied/asked for clarification in post 261. You expanded on this in post 277 to which I replied in post 280, refuting your points and raising questions on some of your answers. You replied in post 303 saying you thought my defense was okay. Does this mean you accept that your accusations were wrong? But you then went on to say that you still thought I was scummy for those reasons! In post 307 I said that I'd still like to see your responses to the points I made and the questions I asked (in post 280), and I also made other points about 303. These you never responded to at all. Am I to assume this was because you knew your points in that post were baseless?

And the answer to your 'would you have used your power' is probably, I dunno. Now please demonstrate how does your question amount to scumhunting of any sort.

So you would "probably" have used your power, thereby causing a no-lynch? I asked this question in direct response to the following:

1) You see, Huntress unwillingness to lynch Goat at deadline make absolutly zero sense from a town standpoint:
- and lynch is always better than nolynch, especially in the situation yesterday when faced with a cult: nolynch is like giving scum a free cult and a free kill
- she claimed vanilla, hence she could not have been sure Goat was not scum

This makes me think that the most probable mafia/cult counts Goat and Huntress in its members. That or she is moronically obtuse town which is always a chance. If Huntress is town I would like to see her giving a solid explanation on why she thought it was better to let nolynch happen.

I wanted to see how genuine your comments about no-lynch really were. You correctly say that as a vanilla I could not have been sure about Goat, but shouldn't that also apply to you? Apparently you think it's acceptable if you're causing it but not acceptable if you can blame it on me.
And incidently, how was I alone to blame for no-lynch at deadline when Goat had only three of the five votes required? In fact, five hours earlier he only had two. What about the other four who didn't vote for him?

I wasn't arguing against the extension; I was asking you why you needed one when we still had six days to spare. Another question you haven't answered.

Because six days is nothing at this game's going rate. Why are you even arguing this point is what I'm getting at. The short deadline has led to a crappy nolynch, yes or no?

Because it looked like you you were trying to protect EA by turning the voting to me or Goat.

At Huntress; I can see where you are coming from but are you comfortable saying that there isn't a cult?

I didn't say there wasn't, just that there was no evidence for one apart from your claim.

However, I think we've just found some!

CW was Marlin Spiked. Huntress, do you have anyhting to say about that?

So when were you recruited? Because I doubt very much your role was mafia from the start, and unless someone has got a marline spike that they haven't declared, which is unlikely, your information is false.

[Xtoxm]

I find Huntress's over-defensivness, and accusation against me quite suspicion. We already know more than one person has claimed possesion of a Marlin Spike, and I would expect a townie to go down that route.

[Huntress]

Down what route? Everyone but you, I think, has declared their weapons so unless someone is lying about their weapon, or was able to pick up a marline spike from one of the dead sailors, and use that instead of their own weapon, your information must be false.

[Xtoxm]

We already know someone is lying, because of the poison.

And you're wrong, Gremwell, confirmed town, claimed a Marlin Spike. I actually wasn't seeing as a point against you, but I don't like this reaction at all.

[Xtoxm]

If Gremwell hadn't claimed that I would have been very suspicious of you for it. But the fact there are multiple shows there's something fishy going on. On top of that, I expect scum to have fakeclaims (clearly the SK has already faked).

I was taking it a a towntell infact, as I don't think scum would be stupid enough to claim that and then kill with it, especially when my role was largely public...

[Goatrevolt]

I was taking it a a towntell infact, as I don't think scum would be stupid enough to claim that and then kill with it, especially when my role was largely public...

I don't think anyone understood how your role worked. I for one had no idea. I thought you were told information along the lines of "This kill was made by the SK. This other kill was made by the Mafia." It's entirely possible Huntress claimed her kill weapon completely unaware of the implications of her doing so.

Springlullaby: Why did you think I was cult instead of SK after EA claimed his role information on me?

[Huntress]

And you're wrong, Gremwell, confirmed town, claimed a Marlin Spike. I actually wasn't seeing as a point against you, but I don't like this reaction at all.

What am I wrong about? I can't see what you're getting at here.

As far as I know, I'm the only one alive with a marline spike so how did you expect me to react when you claimed that was how CW was killed?

[Goatrevolt]

Also, the way other people reacted today towards you claiming your information suggests that most people were of the same mindset as me...that you would be able to to tell us which group made kills instead of simply informing us how the kills were made.

I can see Huntress as cult, SL as SK. It would explain why Huntress could make the claim that she couldn't possibly see me as cult but yet she could see me as SK. It would also explain why Springlullaby wanted to pair Huntress and myself as cult despite EA's information pegging me as SK.

[Xtoxm]

I was taking it a a towntell infact, as I don't think scum would be stupid enough to claim that and then kill with it, especially when my role was largely public...

I don't think anyone understood how your role worked. I for one had no idea. I thought you were told information along the lines of "This kill was made by the SK. This other kill was made by the Mafia." It's entirely possible Huntress claimed her kill weapon completely unaware of the implications of her doing so.

Springlullaby: Why did you think I was cult instead of SK after EA claimed his role information on me?

Well whoever's been poisoning kept it quiet.

Here's an idea. Perhaps it's a cult, but they can't kill until they recruit someone who can kill. Perhaps a recruited common sailor can kill with their Marlin Spike, and Huntress claimed before she was recruited?

[Xtoxm]

Goat, what do you think of this. Lynch SL, and if she's telling the truth, she can prevent her own lynch.

Seeing as Cult/Mafia/Scum-Entity killed last night, I doubt they can recruit any more.

Oh, I also have reason to believe there was an attenpt on CR's life the night we didn't have any kills. I don't know by whom or what method though, unfortunately.

It's still plausable that CW was the SK, I guess. I looked it up, and Powder Monkeys got pretty shoddy treatment on Pirate Ships.

Maybe this makes Huntress the better lynch?

[Goatrevolt]

Well whoever's been poisoning kept it quiet.

Most players claimed their weapon today, after you wanted additional information.

Here's an idea. Perhaps it's a cult, but they can't kill until they recruit someone who can kill. Perhaps a recruited common sailor can kill with their Marlin Spike, and Huntress claimed before she was recruited?

Huntress claimed yesterday. That means she was recruited and made the kill last night, which is unlikely. In addition to that, I don't see why the cult would recruit Huntress, who people were calling the SK, when they had a pick of plenty of people under far less suspicion.

[Xtoxm]

Hmm, yeh good point. Tbh i've been expecting to get recruited. Been pleasantly surprised. This supports my theory of Jebus being recruiter.

[Goatrevolt]

Goat, what do you think of this. Lynch SL, and if she's telling the truth, she can prevent her own lynch.

Interesting idea. I want to hear what SL has to say about it.

Seeing as Cult/Mafia/Scum-Entity killed last night, I doubt they can recruit any more.

I doubt it as well. Also, strictly from a setup design point of view, I doubt this setup allowed for 5 scum 1 neutral.

Oh, I also have reason to believe there was an attenpt on CR's life the night we didn't have any kills. I don't know by whom or what method though, unfortunately.

That's really interesting. Can you elaborate further? This brings up some questions, but I want to know more first.

It's still plausable that CW was the SK, I guess. I looked it up, and Powder Monkeys got pretty shoddy treatment on Pirate Ships.

Maybe this makes Huntress the better lynch?

For now, I'm going to play under the assumption that CW wasn't a SK. What weapon did CW claim, out of curiosity? She didn't lie about the powder monkey bit, I would assume she also told the truth about that.

I'm interested in your information on CR before trying to decide on a lynch.

[Goatrevolt]

Second; I basically wanted to check Goat's claim. Since EA turned up scum yesterday and I already knew for a fact that EA's role claim was true, I wanted to see if he was telling the truth about Goat. Being on the opposing scum group, I think EA would love to get rid of the SK as soon as possible.

How did you know EA's role claim (tracker) was true?

[Goatrevolt]

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Traitor

[Xtoxm]

She never claimed one. From the way she acted, I think she was either the SK, or she believed she was a VT. Otherwise her actions around Gremwell make little sense.

[Xtoxm]

Oh, and with CR I used a One-Shot Protection I didn't tell you guys I had on him that night, and I highly suspect I prevented a kill from someone...

Started to regret doing it later...