Mini 684: Quacks and Masons Mafia- Game Over

[Netlava]

Jazzmyn is scum. Vote jazz!!

[Riceballtail]

At least it will be a short day.

Go town!

[Porochaz]

Urgh... not what I need atm. I will decide later tonight hopefully. It would be useful instead of both players shouting "your scum" to give me reasons why the other person is scum and they aren't. I have an idea who Im going to vote for but it would be unwise to until the reread.

[muffinhead]

Official Vote Count

Netlava (1)- jazzmyn
jazzmyn (1)- Netlava

not voting (1) porochaz

2 votes to lynch

[Jazzmyn]

Urgh... not what I need atm. I will decide later tonight hopefully. It would be useful instead of both players shouting "your scum" to give me reasons why the other person is scum and they aren't. I have an idea who Im going to vote for but it would be unwise to until the reread.

Yeah, it's no fun being put in the position of being the last man standing, so to speak, and having to make the decision that determines the game. Been there, done that, and didn't like the pressure. So, I hope this helps.

When you re-read the thread, you will see that none of the masons ever voted for or FoSed or HoSed any of the other masons, ever. We addressed each other but we were never overtly critical of one another, and this was consistent throughout the entire game (which, in retrospect, probably also allowed the scum to identify us, but time was on our side, I think, so by the time the pattern became clear, we were in pretty good shape despite this, I think).

Look at the voting (we backed each other up on lynching wagons all game) and look also at the agreement among the masons about plans that were tossed around about outing the masons early, etc.

Netlava, SunTzu and roflcopter were all initially in favour of outing the masons early on, while none of the masons were. No mason would ever really be in favour of such a plan, but it took Netlava a while to figure out that he needed to distance himself from his own ridiculous idea to out the masons on day 1 and have quacks target each other or have them lynched (in short, he wanted everyone but the doctors and the scum to be outed, so what does that tell you about him now claiming mason?), and it took him a while to figure out that he needed to distance himself from his scumbuddies, too. Take a look at raider, Riceballtail, and my predecessor, Sotty7 on Day 1. They were all dead set against Netlava's ridiculous "plan" to out the masons, and they were all dead set against Clammy's plan that would involve outing the masons the next day, as well.

It is true that Netlava was on the SunTzu wagon, but if you look at the timing, he voted SunTzu early on as the second vote on November 8, and then sought a SunTzu prod on November 15 as soon as SunTzu garnered a third vote (from me) and then Netlava disappeared entirely from the thread for something like two weeks, during which time SunTzu-Scum was lynched. It looks like Netlava just never got back to the thread in time to jump off of that wagon before SunTzu was lynched.

Then, Netlava used very weak reasons to vote for and keep his vote on Pacman/Porochaz as an excuse to avoid lynching roflcopter. No wonder, knowing that his second scum partner was going down, too, and the best he could hope for was to stay under the radar yet again.

Then, on the last day, Netlava continued to vote Pacman/Porochaz even though he had been spectacularly unsuccessful in getting anyone else to come around to his poor reasoning for voting Pacman/Porochaz. I think this is because he was absolutely stuck. Since Netlava is scum, he knew with 100% certainty that militant would flip town, so the only way for Netlava to survive was to keep his vote on Porochaz, try to derail the mass claim so he could avoid having to false claim yesterday, and then try a fake claim on the final day after militant would turn up town. Heck, he even postulated in his post #37 that it would be

harder

for scum to fake claim on the final day if we didn't massclaim on the previous day, which is complete BS, of course. Then, ta dah, in his first post on the final day, he tries to fake claim mason.

Had we all claimed yesterday (as we should have), then Netlava would have had to claim doctor since Riceballtail and I would have confirmed each other, and Netlava couldn't claim anything else since Porochaz had confirmed Pacman's quack claim, which most of us believed.

Add that to Netlava being pretty lurky for much of the game, and add in his screw up/scum slip with his post in which he referred to wanting to miss the last scum instead of wanting to miss the last mason. While I realize that these kinds of screw-ups/slips are not

necessarily

scumtells, they happen often enough that they are at least worth noting. The mind is a wonderful thing - it often does cause people to make such errors when they are consciously lying. And I know with 100% certainty that Netlava is lying when he claims to be a mason, so it certainly fits in this case, since he was consciously lying when he wrote ever single post in which he tried to claim to be anything but scum.

Then, take a look at my posts. In my post #1 upon replacing, I said that roflcopter was most suspicious, followed by SunTzu as next most suspicious. I was consistent about this throughout, and voted for and helped lynch both of them, and they were indeed both scum. I asked Pacman why he targeted Datteboy in light of the plan that we had, and was initially suspicious of him for deviating from the plan, but came to accept that he was most likely indeed the quack, and that his reasons for doing what he did were probably legitimate (particularly in light of the fact that fake claiming as quack wouldn't make much sense if he was scum - see my post #18 for my analysis on this) and I was content to wait for him to return from his V/LA while going about the business of finding the scum. Which we did, with roflcopter next.

See also my post #19, in which I said that I was most suspicious of those who were voting for Pacman (that was roflcopter and Netlava) and that I thought roflcopter was the best lynch for the day, and that I wanted to see who would step up to hammer roflcopter, etc.

See also my posts during the last day. I voted militant because we (the masons) had discussed that he should be our target for the day, and I wanted to demonstrate that I was onboard with it, but then when Netlava appeared and voted Porochaz, I wanted to see what further discussion might reveal, because I had to think through the reasons for Netlava not hammering Porochaz when he had the chance. I revoted militant after a re-read because of his ties to roflcopter and SunTzu, unvoted him after he defended himself so that I could think about the massclaim and about his defence as I was starting to think that Netlava may very well be the remaining scum rather than militant, and ultimately hammered him because (a) we were deadlocked on the massclaim, (b) that was the plan that we masons had agreed to during the previous night, and (c) because Porochaz's plan made sense to me, as it had to be either militant or Netlava as the remaining scum, so it really wouldn't matter which one we lynched first. One of them had to be a doctor and one of them had to be scum, so militant's death would not be in vain, if he flipped town.

So, Porochaz, on your re-read, please pay particular attention to the posts of the confirmed masons, raider and Riceballtail, and the confirmed scum, SunTzu and roflcopter, and you will see that what I've said above is accurate, and that Netlava is the remaining scum.

If you have any questions, I am happy to answer them.

Regards,
Jazz

[Porochaz]

Thanks Jazz, I apologise for taking so long 3 of my other games are at deadline and Ive just taken on modding a second mini theme. I would like Netlava to respond/make a case for Jazz though.

[Netlava]

I'm kinda busy (and sick) atm, but I will post later.

[muffinhead]

Just to let everyone know that Im going to be away untill Friday. I should have some sort of acess to the internet but theres the possibility I wont. Anyways if there is a lynch before I get back then I will announce it after I have returned as I dont want to be focused on it while Im on holidays. I hope everyone understands.

[Netlava]

I guess this kinda sucks because it puts the town in a bad position, but raider, riceballtail, and I planned to throw some cursory suspicions onto each other to mislead the scum. It worked pretty well for the most part, and I figured it was enough to mislead the last scum (which I thought was Porochaz at the time) into NKing Jazz, who seemed to me the most likely NK target.

RBT for the most part was pretty insistent on lynching militant, which gave me some doubts at some point, but I stuck with my reads.

What bothers me most now looking through Jazz's posts is her labeling me as "confirmed town." It strikes me as mason fishing so that she could decide who to NK.

Though Jazz claims to have been on both scum wagons, she has been on every wagon thus far.

I also don't like how Jazz immediately votes me on Lylo. In every game I've played, only scum have voted like that. This is a pretty reliable "meta" for a because town, no matter how sure they are (plus the fact that they tend to have lingering doubts), always leave some room. Plus, it is suboptimal play for town. I've seen it most often when scum figure they have the upper hand and do it to force an immediate subpar conclusion for the town.

And so-called "slips" are never valid scumtells because both town and scum are both equally likely to make them.

Anyways, apologies for certain gaps of inactivity. For the record, though, I was (unfortunately) unable to post at those times in all my games. It was more circumstantial than a "scum tell."

They were all dead set against Netlava's ridiculous "plan" to out the masons, and they were all dead set against Clammy's plan that would involve outing the masons the next day, as well.

This doesn't prove anything. Most people didn't want to out the masons period, but I wanted to join the game to try something new.

Then, Netlava used very weak reasons to vote for and keep his vote on Pacman/Porochaz as an excuse to avoid lynching roflcopter. No wonder, knowing that his second scum partner was going down, too, and the best he could hope for was to stay under the radar yet again.

This is not weak. Even looking through pacman's posts now, I'm still a bit surprised that he's not scum. Plus, describing my suspicions of pacman as a means to avoid voting rofl is a foregone conclusion.

Heck, he even postulated in his post #37 that it would be harder for scum to fake claim on the final day if we didn't massclaim on the previous day, which is complete BS, of course. Then, ta dah, in his first post on the final day, he tries to fake claim mason

I never said that, but nice try. I said that the benefits of a non massclaim (scum still not knowing who the masons are) outweigh the benefits of a massclaim, since I didn't think the scum would claim mason.

[Jazzmyn]

Almost none of what Netlava claims in his post above is true, as reviewing the thread, the voting patterns, and the interaction between the masons (raider, Riceballtail and sotty7/me) shows. I won't bother going into a play by play of Netlava's post since most of it is obvious nonsense, and I've already addressed most of it in my prior post above. But I will address a couple of specific points, as follows:

I also don't like how Jazz immediately votes me on Lylo.

I voted you immediately because it was apparent to me that either you or militant were the remaining scum, and since he flipped town, that left you. There was absolutely no reason to delay my vote on you.

Most people didn't want to out the masons period, but I wanted to join the game to try something new.

Uh huh, you "wanted to join the game to try something new" by suggesting a plan that would out the masons on Day 1 and have the quacks target each other or be lynched, leaving only scum and doctors unrevealed, and you expect anyone to now believe that you are a mason? Unreal.

And I have to address the last of Netlava's blatant lies in that post:

Heck, he even postulated in his post #37 that it would be harder for scum to fake claim on the final day if we didn't massclaim on the previous day, which is complete BS, of course. Then, ta dah, in his first post on the final day, he tries to fake claim mason

I never said that, but nice try.

I said that the benefits of a non massclaim (scum still not knowing who the masons are) outweigh the benefits of a massclaim, since I didn't think the scum would claim mason.

You most certainly

DID

say that, in the same post where you slipped up about wanting to miss the last scum, and I quote:

Hmm... I like the idea of scum not knowing who the masons are and missing the last scum if a mislynch occurs.

Scum pulling a fake claim on the final day is harder.

Regards,
Jazz

[Netlava]

Uh huh, you "wanted to join the game to try something new" by suggesting a plan that would out the masons on Day 1 and have the quacks target each other or be lynched, leaving only scum and doctors unrevealed, and you expect anyone to now believe that you are a mason? Unreal.

Actually, that was my intention before coming into the game.

Hmm... I like the idea of scum not knowing who the masons are and missing the last scum if a mislynch occurs. Scum pulling a fake claim on the final day is harder.

Nowhere did I mention that's it's harder to fake claim on the final day than on the previous day. I clarified my post that one benefit outweighed another.

Heck, he even postulated in his post #37 that it would be harder for scum to fake claim on the final day if we didn't massclaim on the previous day, which is complete BS, of course.

Again, this is a lie. For me to make such a claim would make no sense in the first place, and suddenly out of nowhere you are accusing me of such.

When did I say pulling a fake claim is harder

[Netlava]

EDBWOP: Ignore the "When did I say pulling a fake claim is harder..." bit.

[Jazzmyn]

Game, set, match.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Ahem, Porochaz, the rest of us are waiting for you. Are you reading this thread?

Nowhere did I mention that's it's harder to fake claim on the final day...

Lie.

(Game)

Again, this is a lie.

Lie.

(Set)

For me to make such a claim would make no sense in the first place, and suddenly out of nowhere you are accusing me of such.

Lie.

(Match)

Additional attempted lie by Netlava for good measure:

When did I say pulling a fake claim is harder...

I previously pointed out Netlava's lies about this, along with numerous other posts and facts that identify him as the scum partner to roflcopter and SunTzu (see my post #529 and my post #534) prior to his latest trifecta of lies in the quoted post above (his post #535) and I previously pointed out where he said exactly what I quoted him as saying. He denied it and then denied it again three more times above, before he finally realized that he had paid so little attention to the game that he hadn't even realized that I had already specifically cited this specific lie, and he just compounded it three times over in that post of his above.

He belatedly realized this, of course, thus his lame,

EDBWOP: Ignore the "When did I say pulling a fake claim is harder..." bit.

in which he doesn't even acknowledge that he had just accused me several times of lying while it was clearly him who was lying all along.

I don't know what more you need, Porochaz, and you should just hammer him already. It should be blatantly obvious that he's the remaining scum.

Regards,
Jazz

[Netlava]

Lol, typical cheapshots from scum. I guess it becomes obvious when you argue with scum because they pull every trick from the book.

Again, I must say that I never said said pulling a fake claim is harder on the final day than on the previous one. It is OBVIOUSLY not harder to fake claim on the final day when the previous day has another mason to back you up.

The advantage of a mass claim is that the masons are definitely verified. The disadvantage is that the scum know who the masons are. I think the advantage of the scum not knowing who the masons are outweighs the definite verification since a mason fake claim on the final day does not seem advantageous for the scum.

There ya go, that should explain what I meant.

[muffinhead]

Just making an announcement that I have returned from my holiday and apologise for any inconviniance caused due to my absense.

[muffinhead]

Now to get this game alive again I am prodding every player.

[Porochaz]

Wow apologies my birthday got in the way of this game. You are on my list of things to do today, although Im quite sure already.

[Jazzmyn]

Now to get this game alive again I am prodding every player.

Sorry about that, muffinhead. I have been posting but there is nothing more for me to say in light of Netlava's blatantly obvious, clearly documented and specifically cited lies, unless Porochaz still has doubts and questions (which I will gladly answer if that's the case). I've just been waiting for Porochaz to return and either cast his vote to lynch Netlava (as he should do) or ask further questions and seek further input from me (which he shouldn't require, but if he does, I'm perfectly content to provide further answers and input).

As an aside, I didn't know it was your birthday somewhere in there, Porochaz, but happy belated birthday.

Regards,
Jazz

[Netlava]

post

[Porochaz]

Reading when I wake up. Im sorry Ive been bogged down with work. I have 2 days of uni this week though so its all good.

[Porochaz]

ok this vote is mainly for the following reason, for the voting patterns to be correct I would of needed RBT and raider to have thrown suspicion on each other to misdirect scum, they didnt. As far as Im aware Jazzy RBT and raider never looked at each other making Jazzys story ring true. This what pushed me to

vote Netlava

however I was always fairly sure I would do this. Netlava hope your scum, good game people.

[Jazzmyn]

...drum roll...

[Porochaz]

You could tell me...

[Porochaz]

If you were town you would of said well done, not drum roll...