Mafia 90-Lolwat? Mafia, Game Over, Mafia Win

[Numberfourteen]

Serengeti, why did you feel it necessary to out all the masons... this makes no sense at all. I somehow missed in the first read thru that you had outed me and orange (post 272). Can you explain to me any pro town reason to out the masons based on any real information, instead of you guerrilla math that is based on guessed numbers. The only reason I think you out everyone like this is because you didn't want your partner litral to be lynched, so you start this huge mix up that will hopefully clear your name, and take the focus off of litral and onto all of the masons. your whole reason for outing Yos is because he voted for another mason early in the game, yet you think we sould lynch masons because there is probably scum among us. So what is the difference between him voting a scum, and you starting an all out war against other masons? Why do you vouch for koichis innocence, when according to you there is for sure scum in the mason group? If that is not contradictory, then I do not know what is.

@ serengeti, answer these for me:

1. Why is it ok for you to throw suspision on other masons, but not ok for Yos to do it.
2. How is it pro town to lynch a mason, if you have no idea of how many, if any are scum?
3. Why do you vouch for koichi because he is a mason, if you are so sure that atleast one mason is scum?

Major FoS: Serengeti

I will be more than happy to lynch you or your partner litral right now

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Do you think that the scum doesn't already know? I think the town should know what the scum already knows. Level playing field.

1. Yos is throwing suspicion on other masons? I thought he was bus'ing Vino, who isn't a mason. Hey #14 are you confusing your mason buddies with your scumbuddies?

2. Even it there's only one, as I explained, it's still a good idea.

3. In the event of a mason's death, other players should be able to look at their voting records, and identify who the dead mason has NOT voted for. So Masons voting for other masons early in the game, before the masons are out and before there is a strategy on how to deal with such a mega mason group, are either on crack, or scum. I was trying to make sure the record was straight in the event of our deaths.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

OK I think there are two scum masons, Yosarian and Numberfourteen.

[Yosarian2]

Do you think that the scum doesn't already know? I think the town should know what the scum already knows. Level playing field.

Sure, if the scum already know. Vino was fishing so hard, though, I'm guessing that at least his scum group dosn't know who the masons are.

[Vino]

In the event of three scum and one of them is a mason, there is a 3/16 chance that a random player is a scum and a 1/5 chance that a random mason is a scum. That makes an 18.75% chance of lynching scum if we use a random player and 20% chance of lynching scum if we use a random mason. The difference is statistically insignificant and not worth exposing fellow masons over. If there are four scum then a random player actually has a greater chance (25%) of lynching scum than a random mason. Claiming there are multiple scum masons is a great way to make your chances seem greater. Either way it is pretty scummy to vouch for killing masons.

[Yosarian2]

OK I think there are two scum masons, Yosarian and Numberfourteen.

...

Am I talking to a bloody wall here?

[Yosarian2]

Claiming there are multiple scum masons is a great way to make your chances seem greater.

So...you think she would do that as scum...why?

Either way it is pretty scummy to vouch for killing masons.

Unless they're scum, duh.

This guy just keeps getting scummier...

[StrangerCoug]

Is there anything important to read since the start of page 12 besides Penguins of the Serengeti, Vino, and Yosarian2 clawing at each other? You guys posted a lot since I last checked, and I can't comprehend what exactly is going on right now.

[Yosarian2]

Is there anything important to read since the start of page 12 besides Penguins of the Serengeti, Vino, and Yosarian2 clawing at each other? You guys posted a lot since I last checked, and I can't comprehend what exactly is going on right now.

Vino is obv scum.

Penguins is probably town, she thinks I'm scum, she's wrong, she probably dosn't even read my posts at this point because that's what she seems to do when she decides I'm scum, and it's incredibly frustrating, especally since she's ignoring all common sense at this point and continuing to out more masons. Still, based on her meta, she's probably town; incredibly frustrating town, but town.

[Head_Honcho]

Do you think that the scum doesn't already know? I think the town should know what the scum already knows. Level playing field.

Sure, if the scum already know. Vino was fishing so hard, though, I'm guessing that at least his scum group dosn't know who the masons are.

What confuses me is that the initial push against Vino was based on him having some information re: scum/mason overlap that the town did not, but he is obviously not a mason. It also confuses me that Yos apparently backpedaled on his ultimatum re: penguins despite penguins having gone on to out the whole group. Which imo increases the likelihood yosarian is scum and that roflcopter scared him.

Back to the subject of the push against Vino based on him having information town did not. Vino got wailed on from all sides for what reads to me as ignorance of game mechanics, which lead to him basing his posts on lowell's assumption that there was at least one scum in the mason group. This was an assumption that was relatively well received, and given that I don't get how his posts are more scummy than they are kind of dumb.

I believe the mason claim at #215 for now, and I also don't believe that everybody in the mason group Lowell speaks of is likely to be town given its claimed size.

Agreed. Lowell made the right decision.

It's certain that at least one is scum. Minimum of one. Maybe even two.

In this post penguins claims he is certain that at least one mason is scum. Yosarian is apparently no longer concerned with people who seem to know something the town doesn't, his original case against Vino, which has now morphed into "his scum group doesn't know who the masons are". So I'm reading this as a combination of, lynching Vino looked easy, and roflcopter scared him off of voting for penguins despite penguins fulfilling all of the criteria yosarian has said to be scummy.

I've been trying and trying to rewrite that in a way that is not so convoluted, so for the sake of brevity: I think yosarian not even commenting on penguins outing the rest of the masons is a huge backpedal, which to me says there was truth to what roflcopter called him on.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=258
^^ Very protown post

unvote

vote: yosarian2

[Vino]

Claiming there are multiple scum masons is a great way to make your chances seem greater.

So...you think she would do that as scum...why?

Read the numbers I just posted. Her argument is that indiscriminately killing masons is a pro-town strategy.

If

she is scum, she wants it to appear as if the ratio of scum-mason to mason is higher than the ratio of scum to town, so that the town concentrates on lynching masons. Those numbers don't add up, but that's still her argument. It's pretty simple logic. Take off your "Vino is scum" colored glasses for a moment.

Either way it is pretty scummy to vouch for killing masons.

Unless they're scum, duh.

This guy just keeps getting scummier...

She's not vouching for killing scum masons. She's vouching for killing

any

mason, because she says we're better off that way. Look:

Do that, scumbag, and the more dead town masons litter the morgue, the higher the chances that the scum masons will be weeded out.

She wants to kill

all masons

. The problem with that is the math simply doesn't add up. We stand just as good if not better of a chance of killing scum if we ignore the fact that there are masons.

Honcho, you just linked to an entire page. Which post on that page did you think is the protown post? Also, s/dumb/poorly worded/

[Yosarian2]

What confuses me is that the initial push against Vino was based on him having some information re: scum/mason overlap that the town did not, but he is obviously not a mason.

You know who else would have info? A scum who's buddy was a mason.

Anyway, Vino's been obv scum ever since his defense of his scum buddy Literl by calling him a "jester'. His last posts have only made that worse.

It also confuses me that Yos apparently backpedaled on his ultimatum re: penguins despite penguins having gone on to out the whole group.

Uh, she hasn't outed the whole group.

When I said that, I meant it; the problem though is that now I'm like 95% sure she's town, which is incredibly frustrating, but I'm not going to vote her now, so it means that there's basically nothing I can do.

Do you really have a problem with me not voting Penguins now that I think she's probably town?

I've been trying and trying to rewrite that in a way that is not so convoluted, so for the sake of brevity: I think yosarian not even commenting on penguins outing the rest of the masons is a huge backpedal, which to me says there was truth to what roflcopter called him on.

Clearly not reading the game, if you think I didn't comment on her outing another mason. And again, I don't know what makes you think that's the "whole group".

unvote

vote: yosarian2

So, I'm guessing you're vino's third scumbuddy, right?

[Yosarian2]

She's not vouching for killing scum masons. She's vouching for killing

any

mason, because she says we're better off that way. Look:

Do that, scumbag, and the more dead town masons litter the morgue, the higher the chances that the scum masons will be weeded out.

She wants to kill

all masons

.

No, that's clearly not what she said.

She, with her obsessive "yos is scum" fixation, has decided I am scum, and decided to try to point out that if I was scum I wouldn't want other masons to die since the more masons are dead the easier it is to find the scum masons. You've got to read it in context. She was never suggesting we start indescriminatly killing masons, especally since she's voting you, a non-mason. Plus, she IS a mason; if she was scum, why the heck WOULD she want the town to start indescriminatly killing masons?

Your case against her just dosn't fit; basically, none of her actions would make any sense for her to do as scum,

[MafiaSSK]

Gah. Too much posting. Guarantee an actual good post tomorrow.

[Numberfourteen]

Do you think that the scum doesn't already know? I think the town should know what the scum already knows. Level playing field.

1. Yos is throwing suspicion on other masons? I thought he was bus'ing Vino, who isn't a mason. Hey #14 are you confusing your mason buddies with your scumbuddies?

You originally outed Yos because he voted another mason, here is the quote:

As I pointed out earlier, Yosarian, who I am officially outing as a member of the group (along with myself), who is generally a shy voter, started out by voting fellow mason group member Lowell, after which I accused him of not reading his PM, something he has failed to address.

2. Even it there's only one, as I explained, it's still a good idea.

Once again you are saying that it is a good idea, assuming alot of factors. So... if there is exactly one scum in the group, and if you and lowell are for sure town, then it isn't a bad play. I would like you to explain why it was a good play based on zero assumptions, or atleast cover every possible situation, and then show how it is good, you cant do it...

3. In the event of a mason's death, other players should be able to look at their voting records, and identify who the dead mason has NOT voted for. So Masons voting for other masons early in the game, before the masons are out and before there is a strategy on how to deal with such a mega mason group, are either on crack, or scum. I was trying to make sure the record was straight in the event of our deaths.

Why are we "dealing" with the mason group? What you just described is basic strategy, when any player dies, not just a mason, we will look at thier voting patterns and decide what happens

[Head_Honcho]

What confuses me is that the initial push against Vino was based on him having some information re: scum/mason overlap that the town did not, but he is obviously not a mason.

You know who else would have info? A scum who's buddy was a mason.

But you voted him for fishing for masons, this is why I read it as hopping on the e-z lynch more than legitimate scumhunting. The whole time your case had one foot in "vino knows something" and another foot in "vino's fishing" until the votes rolled.

I've been trying and trying to rewrite that in a way that is not so convoluted, so for the sake of brevity: I think yosarian not even commenting on penguins outing the rest of the masons is a huge backpedal, which to me says there was truth to what roflcopter called him on.

Clearly not reading the game, if you think I didn't comment on her outing another mason. And again, I don't know what makes you think that's the "whole group".

Well, you're the one who isn't reading the game then, which I guess helps your case. However:

One of the masons said it was a large group, so he was guessing that at least one of them must be scum. (Lowell? When he claimed? Can't be bothered to dig up the post.) Naturally all of this logic is reliant upon that, and since he is the resident expert I am taking it as the most likely scenario. Since he found it suitable to reveal his masonry, he must be relatively positive that there is a scum in their midst, so I find it reasonable to assume that he is correct.

Um...Lowell is the resident expert? Of what?

There is a difference between other people's posts, that have said that there's a pretty good chance there is a scum, and your posts, which seemed to imply you already knew there was a scum mason.

This was after penguins had posted that she was "certain" there was at least one scum mason, and posted number crunches based on that certainty. You didn't call this out as scummy, and I think it's because roflcopter scared you. So what convinced you penguins was so townie?

@Vino: I don't know how to link to specific posts, so I linked it so the page started with the quote I was referring to.

[roflcopter]

head honcho is town too. this game is too easy.

vino, penguins did not in any way suggest indiscriminately killing masons. if you read her omgmaths post, its basically "x% chance at random" is worse than "x% chance out of mason group minus penguins and lowell who are obvtown" and she went from there to the next logical leap, picking out who she thought was scummiest from her mason team and outing him so we could discuss the merits of lynching him.

i really can't wait to read the mason thread after this game btw its going to be hi-larious

[roflcopter]

Gah. Too much posting. Guarantee an actual good post tomorrow.

remember everybody, mafiassk is not allowed to lurk through this game

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

In the event of three scum and one of them is a mason, there is a 3/16 chance that a random player is a scum and a 1/5 chance that a random mason is a scum. That makes an 18.75% chance of lynching scum if we use a random player and 20% chance of lynching scum if we use a random mason. The difference is statistically insignificant and not worth exposing fellow masons over. If there are four scum then a random player actually has a greater chance (25%) of lynching scum than a random mason. Claiming there are multiple scum masons is a great way to make your chances seem greater. Either way it is pretty scummy to vouch for killing masons.

Are you pretending not to know how many masons there are? I'm the one talking to a wall, haha.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Oh and BTW clever players know that I've outed ALL the masons.

[Natirasha]

Gah. Too much posting. Guarantee an actual good post tomorrow.

remember everybody, mafiassk is not allowed to lurk through this game

On threat of modkill.

[Yosarian2]

Oh and BTW clever players know that I've outed ALL the masons.

Btw, good job with that. Assuming this game is balanced at all, you'd better hope there's a scum mason, or else you've probably just cost the town the game.

[Yosarian2]

But you voted him for fishing for masons, this is why I read it as hopping on the e-z lynch more than legitimate scumhunting. The whole time your case had one foot in "vino knows something" and another foot in "vino's fishing" until the votes rolled.

Well, yes. What, you expect me to be consistant? Consistancy is a scumtell.

Or, to put it another way, in some of Vino's posts, he looked scummy because it looked like he knew something only scum could know. In others of his posts, it looked like he was trying to find something out that only scum should want to know. Obviously he wasn't doing both, but the way scumtells work is that if it looks like someone might have been doing something it increases the odds of them being scum. He had so many different scumtells, of so many different flavors, those being only two of them, that I think the odds of him being scum are higher then anyone else in the game that he's the right lynch at the moment.

[quote[
This was after penguins had posted that she was "certain" there was at least one scum mason, and posted number crunches based on that certainty. You didn't call this out as scummy, and I think it's because roflcopter scared you. [/quote]

No, it's because she's dripping goofball. She's always certain of half a dozen things. Sometimes, some of them are even right.

So what convinced you penguins was so townie?

Metagaming, mostly. Want me to link you to some games where she acted exactally like this as town?

[orangepenguin]

willing to lynch: (litral, gnkoichi*, yosarian*)

*if a consensus on lynching this player is reached by penguins and lowell

Add in the list of players you are willing to lynch, wink wink, nudge nudge:

Orangepenguin, and Numberfourteen.

Come to think of it, didn't orangepenguin vote me? Maybe, like Yosarian2, he's spending all his energy keeping track of his scumbuddies rather than his ahem other buddies.

LOL. I have made a total of one post before this. The vote on you was my random stage vote, because I completely missed it (hence the quick unvote). I only voted you because you were a penguin, and there isn't enough ice for the two of us.


So apparently you outed me as a mason? Eh, fair enough. The pm says nothing about everyone being confirmed town or anything, so I think your reasoning is okay. rofl must like it, because in his first game, he claimed mason and outed his partner within his first couple posts. lol.

[Yosarian2]

So, Orange, do you have an opinion about anything else that's happened this game? What do you think about Vino, for example?