Mini 731 Speed Dating Smalltown: Over!

[farside22]

Fine. In some ways, I think Farside is guilty of feeding the flames. This is closer to what I was trying to say, anyway.

I don't think ad homs are helpful. That wasn't my intent.

Yay all my fault.

[Shanba]

I wish all these people would finish their rereads already. We need new stuff on the table.

[Shanba]

And farside? I know it's tough, I know it's frustrating having craplogic thrown at you. But I want you to be helpful this game, as you're one of the more experienced players here and we'll need your contributions. Forget about EmpKing for a while. Tell us your thoughts about other players.

[farside22]

Mod: Side note I am going to be busy. I will do my best to post but things just went from bad to worse.

[MafiaSSK]

Still reading. Sorry I've had limited access today and yesterday. Thought Emp is looking sorta scummy

Fos:Emp

[Tanarin]

Alright, well I did a re-read of Oman and here is my comments on some of his posts:

For those who still have to choose: Which ability would you have chosen if you were allowed to start and why?
For those who still have to choose: Do you think it will be good for us if you choose Wendy and why?

1. I would've chosen tracker. Simply because I think its one of the easiest roles to find scum with. Its not too dangerous as scum, but as town, it kicks them right in the nuts.
2. Wendy is an interesting role, personally. Scum should be NKing a day in advance. So instead of killing the tracker they kill the anytime mason instead! Oh boy, wouldn't that be fantastic. And it works in reverse! Scum try to kill empking because they expect wendy to hold it and BANG they shoot him alright, but he wasn't the tracker AHAHAHA. Me personally, no, because I lost that right in SG-1 Mafia when I had a 50% chance of winning and a 50% chance of losing. I chose wrong and vollkan killed us.

@Oman sure it's insight into my thoughts you get, but I think taking away a PR from scum or someone you think is scum based on questions or comments is a better route to go.

Only for a day or two, Godmother, then they get it anyway. No I'd prefer to open up analysis now.

Wendy's ability can really screw with the scum, so in short, fuck the subvote. Korts, you're turning a role powerful in its inherant choas into predictability.

Farside, you seem addicted to discussing things that should be left up to the player. Sure, we don't know everyone's motives, but at some point we have to trust that if people are town, they're smart enough, and if people are scum, we're smart enough to catch them. This is probably what it was like when directing the cop was still cool.

I have no problem with the first part of this post, his reasoning is sound enough. The second part, I am kinda disturbed he was the only one who was vocal about NOT having a subvote for Wendy's ability. I don't think this is necessarily a tell of any kind but something worth noting.

Oooh, double-voting yourself must be twice as scummy as regular self-voting

vote: Oman

So much WIFOM and the game hadn't even started yet!

Vote: Neko2086

OMGUS+you should have voted the guy you thought was scummy

What if a pro-town player has a strong ability? Should we give him a weaker role the next day only because another player is hurting us with his picked role?

No, we shouldn't. The roles will rotate a fair bit through, most scum will get a powerful role eventually.

His answer to BSG is kind of weird. BSG was asking about pro-town players and he answers the question as if she was asking about scum.

Just vote if you want to, Seraphim. If you're afraid that you or other players will lynch accidentaly due to your ability, then just put how many votes the player you have voted for has at that point.

Also, why are some players already sub-voting regarding Wendy? What are the reasons for discussing it right here and now?

Also, Seraphim, why did you vote yourself?
Tan, why did you vote the mod?

Mod, why is Tan's vote against you not counted?

Seems to have forgotten about how Seraphim's role works here. Maybe a slip just because of the fact that the DV in this game doesn't work quite the same as we are used to. He also seems to be prodding Searphim to vote haphazardly, especially after Seraphim made it clear he does not want to do that.

It was a random vote. Is there a problem?

Its pointless, and forms it on yourself. Neither the fact of who you vote, nor your reaction to being voted give us any information.

Also, if you are scum it allows you from comitting to either voting or ignoring your scum partners.

In short, its an anti-town act in most situations.

I dunno here. I think Seraphim did get some reactions from a couple of people (Korts and BSG). Also calling it anti-town is a bit harsh IMO.

I'm not saying its scummy, I'm saying its pointless Shanba. He doesn't deserve votes for it, but its not something that should be done often.

Also, Seraphim, from a game theory standpoint it wasn't really useful for you today either.

Well he only did it once, and most people would not do it during the core of the game proper, so I don't see why you are concerned about one random self vote. These last two posts seem to be the harshest reactions to the self vote Seraphim got.

Sitting back watching. I don't know empking, and I don't know farside well enough,.

SO he delares he is lurking. I don;'t know any of the players other than Shanba, (and even then IRC meta does not always translate to forum meta,) and that didn't stop me from asking questions and getting involved.

I uh...look....

I'm ggetting a huge townie read off farside right now. Empking is going in circles, but I just can't get over the fact that I always want to lynch empking, he's not unreadable, he's just crazy.

Anyway, I'm going to hold on for a while. If Neko doesn't mind the vote staying there, there is nothing to gain from pulling it off.

My favourite line so far "Am I to assume there are powerroles and Powerroles are scum?" In a

SMALLTOWN. BAHAHAHAHA!

Not adding too much here, just kinda saying that farside is giving off town vibes and how he always wants to lynch empking. Also made fun of an Empkig line, though I will admit it was kinda funny when empkng said it.

Indeed farside. I'm pretty much with you on that entire post, but I just can't seem to convince myself that he needs a lynching.

OK fair enough but more on this later.

Random chit-chat until this post 270 where he says emp is the bad wagon. Then once prodded for a reason he gives this.

Oman, thanks for the input, but why is this a bad wagon? He is arguing a bad point right now. If anything, if he is really a townie, he is hurting us by distracting us from finding the real scum by arguing what are in all reality minor points.

Seraphim nails my problems with the wagon in the previous two posts. 1. This doens't seem to be scummy for Empking, you're lynching him for being what you see to be a VI.

2. I would hate to lose the tracker role. I'm not adverse to lynching someone due to role at all, but I would hate to lose it over something that doesn't convince me in the slightest. I respectfully think that farside is too close to this and is behaving as such becuase of her direct involvment in the argument. Not to say I don't love you farside

Wait, you agreeded with farside in post 203 that emp was scummy yet now say he is just the VI?! When did this change of heart come along? Also you are afraid of losing the tracker role, which I know you valued back in pregame. I think losing a role should not be a concern if that person is acting scummy. Scum is scum even in a smalltown setup like this. And how were you not convinced, you even admit you were close to lynching him about 70 posts earlier.

Yeah, I know how that happens, you get caught up in that confirmation bias-type play.

Hmm...I'm adverse to an Empking lynch, but can't think of where else to go except:

NEKO! where were you?

Now you are comfortable with an emp lynch should it happen only after talking to faside. Which way are you leaning, lynch or no lynch on empking?

Unvote,

Vote Empking

I smell a rat.

Apparently that talk with farside did a lot. Now you vote empking and say you smell a rat.

Ya, if I wanted him lynched, more than likely would've hammered instead of letting you come off.

Let me know when your reread is done, I want to ask questions of others, but I'm giving you my spotlight for now (don't freak, its all misdirection).

Seems like you are trying to avoid being the hammer vote to make it look less scummy here, and how does misdirection actually help the town again? Also once again trying to keep the spotlight off of you. Any reason you are avoiding it this game? BTW you never answered the question, why did you smell a rat?

Unvote

Worried this will happen before Korts says something.

... Why be worred, Obviously Seraphim wasn't voting and everyone else who was active was not going to hammer right away or was already on the wagon.

Unvote

Worried this will happen before Korts says something.

Why are you voting for Emp? What is your thoughts on Korts have to do with Emp?

Remind me about this after Korts' reread and I'll give full disclosure.

Why are you waiting for Korts? Why not just answer now. I don't see any reason why your answer needs to be so tied Korts re-read.

Wait, what happened? Why do you keep waffling on Empking?

I'm not, its still a bad wagon.

So voting then unvoting within a few posts is not waffling now? If you really thought it was a bad wagon why even vote in the first place?


So basically he seems to be getting more and more shady each post from what I am seeing, and now he is mysteriously tying himself to Korts. This has me worried, especially if Oman just happens to be scum.

FoS: Oman

[farside22]

And farside? I know it's tough, I know it's frustrating having craplogic thrown at you. But I want you to be helpful this game, as you're one of the more experienced players here and we'll need your contributions. Forget about EmpKing for a while. Tell us your thoughts about other players.

I am going to see about rereading next week. I know that RS caught my attention. I dont like his vote and lack of comments right now. As for everyone or anyone else I need to read to think if anything else caught my attention.

[Oman]

Back. I lost internet for a few days.

[Seraphim]

Responding to prod, I'll be posting some content in a little bit, haven't had time to adequately reread...

[Tanarin]

Edit to my last Post: Apparently I accidently quoted BSG as opposed to Oman. That BSG quote should have been this:

I just want to say, random voting aside, that I will not be throwing my vote around helter-skelter. Seeing as I have the ability of starting a bandwagon almost single-handedly and to hammer at L-2 today, I will be watching carefully. So I will only vote for someone if I am sure if they are scum.

Now, for my thoughts on other things...

I think farside and Empking's argument is pointless.

I also think that we shouldn't use Korts power tonight.

Vote: No

Pfft, grow a pair. Two votes is not a bad thing D1. Being more careful in later days is a bigger point. SRSLY!

Notes stay though.

[Oman]

Wait, what happened? Why do you keep waffling on Empking?

I'm not, its still a bad wagon.

Yet you voted him.

Do you think that Empking should not have been voted?

The second part, I am kinda disturbed he was the only one who was vocal about NOT having a subvote for Wendy's ability. I don't think this is necessarily a tell of any kind but something worth noting.

I like the way you realise that different is not scummy. Thanks for being one of the only intelligent people to do that!

His answer to BSG is kind of weird. BSG was asking about pro-town players and he answers the question as if she was asking about scum.

I took the "another person" that is "hurting" us to be scum and answered thusly. I understood his question to be related to town/scum and relative power of roles.

Seems to have forgotten about how Seraphim's role works here. Maybe a slip just because of the fact that the DV in this game doesn't work quite the same as we are used to. He also seems to be prodding Searphim to vote haphazardly, especially after Seraphim made it clear he does not want to do that.

This part of the Oman reread is actually BSG, I couldn't tell if you were away.

Also calling it anti-town is a bit harsh IMO.

Anyhting that reduces information in D1 is likely Anti-town. Exceptions do occur (mostly around powerroles and cops especially).

SO he delares he is lurking. I don;'t know any of the players other than Shanba, (and even then IRC meta does not always translate to forum meta,) and that didn't stop me from asking questions and getting involved.

Wouldn't call it lurking. Lurking in my mind is about trying to make people forget you're there. I posted and drew attention to myself.


More later

[Tanarin]

Seems to have forgotten about how Seraphim's role works here. Maybe a slip just because of the fact that the DV in this game doesn't work quite the same as we are used to. He also seems to be prodding Searphim to vote haphazardly, especially after Seraphim made it clear he does not want to do that.

This part of the Oman reread is actually BSG, I couldn't tell if you were away.

Thus why I made the post afterward when I realized accidentally quoted the wrong post.

[MafiaSSK]

'Kay. Done with read.

The first part of day 1 it did seem like Empking was being his typical scummy meta and decided to attack Farside for craplogic. Farside had defended herself and this could have just been an argument between the tow of them. But, Korts defended farside as well and as thus attacked Empking. I think this could be a sgin of bussing but I'm not sure.

Fos:Korts/Farside

Empking does seem his typical scummy self. I would supporthim as a lynch on Day 1.
Oman, I have never played with before and really don't have a meta on him. From his posts though I would say he's town.
Tanarin, I only know from IRC, and on IRC it seems like he plays more aggressively as scum. I'm not sure.
Shanba, seems town. I can't point out any specific posts but Shanba seems to be fitting his(?) town meta.
Neko seems like noob town IMO.
OP could possibly be scum. He doesn't post as much as the rest of the town does so I'm not sure.
BSG, seems to lurk so I'm even less sure about his.
RS, is the same case as BSG.

[orangepenguin]

I've been prodded. Guess, just like the ladies, I was bored. Heh. Anyways, nothing really has changed since I made my vote, which I still stand by. I've never played with Empking, I don't think, but if I have, I obviously didn't notice him enough to form a meta opinion of him and his "typical scummy behavior" people keep going off about. I don't think that should give him a free pass.

I don't get Oman. He first says he doesn't like the wagon, but then jumps on. AH.

[Oman]

Wait, you agreeded with farside in post 203 that emp was scummy yet now say he is just the VI?! When did this change of heart come along?

Well, they're not mutally exclusive, also, I'm of the thought that scummy =/= scum. Empking is scummy, but I don't think he is scum.

Also you are afraid of losing the tracker role, which I know you valued back in pregame. I think losing a role should not be a concern if that person is acting scummy. Scum is scum even in a smalltown setup like this. And how were you not convinced, you even admit you were close to lynching him about 70 posts earlier.

Firstly, yes, but look at the latter part of that sentence "I'm not adverse to lynching because of a role. But it would be a shame to lose a role over something that didn't convince me in the slightest". I think it says what I want it to.

Secondly, yeah I did want to, but that was emotional, I think I stated at the time that I always want to lynch him. Emotionally he twigs as scum, logically he doesn't.

Now you are comfortable with an emp lynch should it happen only after talking to faside. Which way are you leaning, lynch or no lynch on empking?

Thats the complete opposite of what I said. Please read again:

Hmm...I'm adverse to an Empking lynch,

Apparently that talk with farside did a lot. Now you vote empking and say you smell a rat.

Yep, but it wasn't Empking. Yeah, I voted him, but it was part of a bigger idea. You infer too much.

Seems like you are trying to avoid being the hammer vote to make it look less scummy here, and how does misdirection actually help the town again?

Misdirection against the scum. It was designed to make the scum think I was heading one way and head the other. Trying to avoid being the hammer....LOL! I'm a huge advocate of "vote is a vote" where any time you vote you are as guilty as the hammer. I would never shy away from a hammer.

Also once again trying to keep the spotlight off of you. Any reason you are avoiding it this game? BTW you never answered the question, why did you smell a rat?

I said I'd answer it when Korts is done with his reread. Why am I keeping it off me? I'm not. I've just posted two huge posts on myself. I just don't scumhunt myself. Why would I want the spotlight on me as either side, too? I mean, what does it acheive as a townie to get the town looking at you? And don't say "You clear yourself" because the graveyards are full of townies who didn't clear themselves.

... Why be worred, Obviously Seraphim wasn't voting and everyone else who was active was not going to hammer right away or was already on the wagon.

Lots of assumptions there that didn't need to be made. Often people will just jump on wagons out of the blue, town and scum alike.

Why are you waiting for Korts? Why not just answer now. I don't see any reason why your answer needs to be so tied Korts re-read.

You don't see a reason because you don't know what the answer is. If you knew the answer, you'd know why I must wait (or is this all misdirection ).

So voting then unvoting within a few posts is not waffling now? If you really thought it was a bad wagon why even vote in the first place?

Its not because my stance didn't change, only my vote. You don't know the answer, you don't understand, stop infering things that you don't have to.

So basically he seems to be getting more and more shady each post from what I am seeing, and now he is mysteriously tying himself to Korts.

Blegh! If this is some intricate plan to tie Omanscum to Kortstown, then its hardly subtle and really, really, is outside my playstyle.

Edit to my last Post: Apparently I accidently quoted BSG as opposed to Oman. That BSG quote should have been this:

EDIT: My reply to the that part then: Basically, I am not a fan of dancing around not voting people. I don't think putting two votes on someone is a bad thing at all. He carries a large amount of pressure in his pocket and is basically saying that he wouldn't use it. Protip - Pressure=protown

[farside22]

I've been prodded. Guess, just like the ladies, I was bored. Heh. Anyways, nothing really has changed since I made my vote, which I still stand by.

I've never played with Empking, I don't think, but if I have, I obviously didn't notice him enough to form a meta opinion of him and his "typical scummy behavior" people keep going off about.

I don't think that should give him a free pass.
.

Liar, liar pants on fire. I submit for your approval that of OP and Emp in a game similar to this.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9376

unvote:
vote: Orangepenguin

Please explain to me the game I linked to this game and any differences you see as I see Emp's play as similar to that. He turned out town and we argued about the same way.
Mind you I still think Emp shouldn't be just pissing off comments and not admit to being wrong. I have see scum play that way too.

[Empking]

You were the liar. Even Crazy had to agree with me when he reread.

Actually that's an idea. Read through Farside's post. Sees if she goes from 12 hours to 8 hours.

[farside22]

You were the liar. Even Crazy had to agree with me when he reread.

Actually that's an idea. Read through Farside's post. Sees if she goes from 12 hours to 8 hours.

Seriously the please get a life foundation is calling. Will you pick up the phone?

[Korts]

Post. Short on time. Sorry, I'll get to this game first thing on-site.

[Empking]

You were the liar. Even Crazy had to agree with me when he reread.

Actually that's an idea. Read through Farside's post. Sees if she goes from 12 hours to 8 hours.

Seriously the please get a life foundation is calling. Will you pick up the phone?

Ad Hom.

How does Ad Hom help the town?

[farside22]

You were the liar. Even Crazy had to agree with me when he reread.

Actually that's an idea. Read through Farside's post. Sees if she goes from 12 hours to 8 hours.

Seriously the please get a life foundation is calling. Will you pick up the phone?

Ad Hom.

How does Ad Hom help the town?

How is that a Ad Hom? Because I know you aren't reading anything but what I say or you would see others think your case is crap hence the comment.

[Empking]

You were the liar. Even Crazy had to agree with me when he reread.

Actually that's an idea. Read through Farside's post. Sees if she goes from 12 hours to 8 hours.

Seriously the please get a life foundation is calling. Will you pick up the phone?

Ad Hom.

How does Ad Hom help the town?

How is that a Ad Hom? Because I know you aren't reading anything but what I say or you would see others think your case is crap hence the comment.

You're calling me a person without a life. That's ad hom. Now don't dodge the question.

How does Ad Hom help the town?

[farside22]

You were the liar. Even Crazy had to agree with me when he reread.

Actually that's an idea. Read through Farside's post. Sees if she goes from 12 hours to 8 hours.

Seriously the please get a life foundation is calling. Will you pick up the phone?

Ad Hom.

How does Ad Hom help the town?

How is that a Ad Hom? Because I know you aren't reading anything but what I say or you would see others think your case is crap hence the comment.

You're calling me a person without a life. That's ad hom. Now don't dodge the question.

How does Ad Hom help the town?

It's called SARCASM. Look it up.
You aren't helping the town in my book at all. You asked a question that was answered. You quibbling over a time discrepancy and you can't seem to move beyond it. I don't know what your issue is with me is pesonal but it sure is shit feeling that way.
So tell me how not reading what everyone is telling you helps the town?

[Empking]

You were the liar. Even Crazy had to agree with me when he reread.

Actually that's an idea. Read through Farside's post. Sees if she goes from 12 hours to 8 hours.

Seriously the please get a life foundation is calling. Will you pick up the phone?

Ad Hom.

How does Ad Hom help the town?

How is that a Ad Hom? Because I know you aren't reading anything but what I say or you would see others think your case is crap hence the comment.

You're calling me a person without a life. That's ad hom. Now don't dodge the question.

How does Ad Hom help the town?

It's called SARCASM. Look it up.
You aren't helping the town in my book at all. You asked a question that was answered. You quibbling over a time discrepancy and you can't seem to move beyond it. I don't know what your issue is with me is pesonal but it sure is shit feeling that way.
So tell me how not reading what everyone is telling you helps the town?

Just because your ad hom involved sarcasm doesn't make it any less ad hom.

How does Ad Hom help the town?

Nobody has explained how lying, lying about lying, ad homming, lying about ad homming appealing to emotions makes you town.

[farside22]

When you start reading and understanding let me know. Because I'm just going to repeat myself.

You aren't helping the town in my book at all. You asked a question that was answered. You quibbling over a time discrepancy and you can't seem to move beyond it. I don't know what your issue is with me is pesonal but it sure is shit feeling that way.
So tell me how not reading what everyone is telling you helps the town?